So word has it a Nerf to Saryn is coming. Surprise...

[Kaotyke]

In normal missions, they dont spread far enough, in Onslaught...

Hello, AFK Simulator.

This is just another salt thread for the sake of salt.

[Oreades]

19 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

In normal missions, they dont spread far enough, in Onslaught...

Her effectiveness in Onslaught has much less to do with her kit being good for the rest of the game and everything to do with Onslaughts wonky spawning mechanics. So the problem in the Saryn & Onslaught Equation is Onslaught itself. 

My fear is that instead of making her fun to play in the rest of the game that they will instead diligently nerf her into a cube rebalance her expressly for onslaught. Which could result in her remaining pretty unfun to play in the rest of the game aaaand being bad in Onslaught. Wooooo~

Edited May 20, 2018 by Oreades

[tucker_d_dawg]

She is broken right now.  Useless or annoying at low level star chart stuff, broken at higher level content survival type content.  (Defense don't know how she'd do as resetting her spores every wave means should wouldn't scale the same way she can in survivals).

I only played the new saryn a few times and knew right away a "rebalance" has to come so put her away so I don't get used to it or waste any more time on it.

[rune_me]

50 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yes, I have. I did better with her old build than her new. If you're waiting for damage to tic in EOS, you're going to slow. 10k a tic takes time to build up and I kill enemies too fast for that to happen. I prefer to actually kill the enemies quickly, not just hide and wait while Efficiency counts down.

Then you need to change your build. New Saryn, efficiency should not even drop below 90% until you get past zone 8 and even then you can easily solo it up much faster than that without having to worry about efficiency at all. You should come out of every zone with 95-100% efficiency and an A+ or S rating.

Also, don't hide and wait. You need to kill enemies with toxin lash to spread the spores.

 

[Lady_Xenomorph]

Molt is okay on her, miasma deals now nearly the old damage what it was long times ago but not op it seems there is some minor synergy with the spores her toxic lash is just okay, since you cannot boost your team with it it is not a problem on her the only point what I see it will be nerfed / tuned down is her spores because that alone itself is insane without using the other abilities. Her armor buff is nice I don't know why they should nerf that because this armor addition itself not that big but helps a bit to her.

The spores are in the critical zone but when they released her after this last rework it was obvious they will tune down her because it was so great. Op and it can clear almost any level no matter what kind of enemies you fight with.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Lady_Xenomorph

[trst]

The actual quote from Pablo (since nobody has bothered to post it). https://twitter.com/PabloPoon

If you scroll down to his other comments you'll find:

 

Saryn currently destroys Elite (and probably normal) Onslaught like Banshee destroys regular Onslaught. She's even capable of killing lv150 Heavy Gunners in a matter of seconds with nothing more than a single tap of her Spores.

She's way over the top in Onslaught and far less useful in most of the star chart. Anyone who has actually messed around with her changes (some even saw it when the first preview dropped) should have seen further changes coming a mile away.

Edited May 20, 2018 by trst

[Ryim_Drykeon]

4 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Then you need to change your build. New Saryn, efficiency should not even drop below 90% until you get past zone 8 and even then you can easily solo it up much faster than that without having to worry about efficiency at all. You should come out of every zone with 95-100% efficiency and an A+ or S rating.

Also, don't hide and wait. You need to kill enemies with toxin lash to spread the spores.

 

I solo EOS up to Zone 15+ easy atm (yes, I'm one of those that will test myself to see how far I can get). Spreading her Spores isn't the issue. It's that the damage has to start all over at the beginning when all enemies are dead. If it was a constant flow, then yeah, this would work. Her old build worked better because it had a standard damage, not one needing to ramp up like molasses in a Canada February. Plus it had dual function of damage and health reduction on enemies. Current is only straight damage due to the use of CP. Yeah, one could get a squad together to go without it, allowing for Saryn to strip armor instead, but I'm betting a good majority is still using CP making the Corrosive on the new Spores a waste, because who wants to wait for armor to be stripped when you can just make it zero from the start?

I only mentioned the hiding because that's the only way enemies stay alive long enough to ramp up damage. If I don't wait, damage never gets over 2k (that's about the max before the end of a Zone in EOS) before a need to recast and start all over (sorry, I kill quickly and I'm not slowing that down).

Also, EOS is hardly the "end all" of Warframe. After you get all the drops, it's boring AF, and has no purpose other than better testing than the Simulacrum. Run to Zone 9, rinse-repeat-yawn. It's always the same pattern of which enemies to fight, so there's no change. They should have run EOS like Fissures and have mixed, random enemy types, but that's for another post.

[CrunchyCloud]

6 hours ago, peterc3 said:

They care about normal missions. New players care about normal missions. Quick tip: they don't cater to you and players like you exclusively, there are new players to think of. They have bigger fish to fry than your pet problems.

Right. Pet problems. Of course treating the symptoms and not the cause by nerfing good things that people enjoy is a "pet problem". It's not as if veterans have hundreds of hours of experience in the game and actually know what they're talking about, who cares about those guys right?

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

I only mentioned the hiding because that's the only way enemies stay alive long enough to ramp up damage. If I don't wait, damage never gets over 2k (that's about the max before the end of a Zone in EOS) before a need to recast and start all over (sorry, I kill quickly and I'm not slowing that down).

I just run very low power str, then spores don't kill things too fast. If I have to recast it in a zone, it is usually only once.

4 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Also, EOS is hardly the "end all" of Warframe. After you get all the drops, it's boring AF, and has no purpose other than better testing than the Simulacrum. Run to Zone 9, rinse-repeat-yawn. It's always the same pattern of which enemies to fight, so there's no change. They should have run EOS like Fissures and have mixed, random enemy types, but that's for another post.

I haven't found Saryn after the rework useful anywhere outside of onslaught either. I guess she's also good at two hour long survival, but I'm not insane enough to play two hour long survival so I wouldn't know.

[trst]

1 minute ago, CrunchyCloud said:

Right. Pet problems. Of course treating the symptoms and not the cause by nerfing good things that people enjoy is a "pet problem". It's not as if veterans have hundreds of hours of experience in the game and actually know what they're talking about, who cares about those guys right?

"Veterans" don't keep DE's lights on, new players spending enough time (and money) to become "veterans" does.

[rune_me]

3 minutes ago, CrunchyCloud said:

It's not as if veterans have hundreds of hours of experience in the game and actually know what they're talking about

I have hundreds of hours of experience in the game, and I have no clue what I'm talking about.

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Then, supreme overlord, enlighten the poor, feeble minds at DE as to what the real problem is. You do understand the issue, right? It couldn't be that they don't have the same things in mind for their game as you do?

Why wouldn't they, given the garbage thrown at them?

This community: Wow DE why don't you stop making new things and revisit old stuff, lol what did you forget about all of it????
Also this community: Can't believe they keep going over old stuff lol, why not new stuff

They care about normal missions. New players care about normal missions. Quick tip: they don't cater to you and players like you exclusively, there are new players to think of. They have bigger fish to fry than your pet problems.

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one to notice just how fickle the forums are.  You hit it right on the head with this post PeterC3.  

[CrunchyCloud]

1 minute ago, trst said:

"Veterans" don't keep DE's lights on, new players spending enough time (and money) to become "veterans" does.

First off where are the statistics on that. Second, that's not a reason to ignore veterans.

[CrunchyCloud]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

I have hundreds of hours of experience in the game, and I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Specific cases are irrelevant.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, rune_me said:

I just run very low power str, then spores don't kill things too fast. If I have to recast it in a zone, it is usually only once.

I can see that, but to me that's counter-productive. I -want- to kill fast. My power level is only 145% anyway. I have a fairly balanced build atm. Though for testing I have ramped the new build up to max (275% with my mods) as well as down to min (60%), doing the same with Range in various combinations. But if I have to let an enemy live longer to do more damage so I can kill it....makes more sense to kill it fast. I do not want the enemy to live long. I want to kill it and step on their corpse as I run to the kill the next.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

I can see that, but to me that's counter-productive. I -want- to kill fast. My power level is only 145% anyway. I have a fairly balanced build atm. Though for testing I have ramped the new build up to max (275% with my mods) as well as down to min (60%), doing the same with Range in various combinations. But if I have to let an enemy live longer to do more damage so I can kill it....makes more sense to kill it fast. I do not want the enemy to live long. I want to kill it and step on their corpse as I run to the kill the next.

I agree that it's a strange playstyle. It does fit well with her whole theme of disease and virus, as something that kills slowly but spreads easily. But yeah, it's very different from old Saryn. I guess it's just a matter of preference. I didn't really like old Saryn and almost never played her, but I'm really liking this rework so far. Though as said, she isn't useful at all outisde of osnalught - still fun, just not very good. But that's just my preference. 

[trst]

1 minute ago, CrunchyCloud said:

First off where are the statistics on that. Second, that's not a reason to ignore veterans.

It's a fact of ongoing game development. You don't find companies catering to "veteran" players while disregarding new players. And even in the case of games that rely on income from whales still need new players to keep the whales entertained and engaged.

And if DE ignored veterans then many things like Onslaught, Eidolons, Kuva Survival, and Trials would have never existed in the first place.

[Guest]

What do people mean by she isn't useful outside of osnalught? Is it because she isn't doing enough damage or what? I'm new to this and I have no clue what makes her useless.

[CrunchyCloud]

3 minutes ago, trst said:

It's a fact of ongoing game development. You don't find companies catering to "veteran" players while disregarding new players. And even in the case of games that rely on income from whales still need new players to keep the whales entertained and engaged.

And if DE ignored veterans then many things like Onslaught, Eidolons, Kuva Survival, and Trials would have never existed in the first place.

You think this isn't about veterans as well? I'm pretty sure there's a way to make her useful in lower missions without nerfing the S#&$ out of what makes her fun in ESO.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, (PS4)Auniro said:

What do people mean by she isn't useful outside of osnalught? Is it because she isn't doing enough damage or what? I'm new to this and I have no clue what makes her useless.

Her Spores now only spread from when an enemy is killed. Casting it twice just detonates them. So, given the low number of enemies in any given group, her Spores never have time to ramp up to any decent damage potential, and if they do, they kill themselves off. Outside of EOS, one is lucky to hit 400 damage, and the stripping of armor is almost useless. High levels use CP, low level enemies don't have armor needing stripping.

[rune_me]

Just now, (PS4)Auniro said:

What do people mean by she isn't useful outside of osnalught? Is it because she isn't doing enough damage or what? I'm new to this and I have no clue what makes her useless.

Just that the way she does damage is to spread her spores to as many enemies as possible. The more enemies affected, the more damage the spores does. So for her to do a lot of damage, there needs to be a lot of enemies, and they need to not die to quickly, because if they are dead they won't spread spores around. And in normal missions like exterminate, etc, there just aren't enough enemies spawning to spread spores, and those that are die to quickly.

You can still use her fine in normal missions. Her toxic lash is still extremely good and give one of the best damage buffs in the game to your weapons. If build with high power her 4 can still nuke a roomful of enemies. You just can't rely on her spores, which is her "main" ability to spread and cause damage.

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Jackipanda said:

I don't think DE understand their own game. Tenno are supposed to be powerful warriors, yet when we get any power from a warframe, DE nerfs it. I'm starting to think that this is another game that's not meant for fun and more about finding things that are cool just so the devs can change it. Kinda luck a hunt of some kind. This "nerf" or whatever they are doing to Saryn just goes to show that DE wants us to play the game THEIR way and not our own unique way. 

(Tbh, DE is becoming the new Bungie)

There's a difference between being powerful, and being overpowered.

[Oreades]

48 minutes ago, trst said:

 

The fact that the second tweet addresses the rest of the game does assuage some of my concerns about them going full bore and focusing exclusively on Saryn with regards to Onslaught.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Oreades

[trst]

1 minute ago, CrunchyCloud said:

You think this isn't about veterans as well? I'm pretty sure there's a way to make her useful in lower missions without nerfing the S#&$ out of what makes her fun in ESO.

Who said they're "nerfing the S#&$" out of her? They're nerfing her, yes, but as we have zero details as to what the changes will/might be we have no idea how much of an impact it'll make. DE also doesn't ignore feedback, if the proposed changes seem like too much then be ready to provide feedback when we get them.

 

If I had a say in the nerfs then I'd like to see the duration return while having all spores auto pop at the end. As well as increasing the damage ramp on the recast and gain bonus damage for each enemy killed by spores. Increased recast damage helps spores reliably kill low-mid level enemies while still benefiting from Onslaught's enemy spawns and actually have the recast be useful.

[Zeclem]

8 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Her Spores now only spread from when an enemy is killed. Casting it twice just detonates them. So, given the low number of enemies in any given group, her Spores never have time to ramp up to any decent damage potential, and if they do, they kill themselves off. Outside of EOS, one is lucky to hit 400 damage, and the stripping of armor is almost useless. High levels use CP, low level enemies don't have armor needing stripping.

now her spores do have damage potential. before we did not even have that chance. and stripping armor is not "almost useless" its actually very very useful for a handful of reasons. 

1-she did not lose her ability to proc viral over huge areas, its just in a different skill now
2-having a pub squad that all use CP is nonexistant, and making your own group with it is a big inconvenience for so many people
3-there are other aura mods that you can use when you stop needing cp.

rework made her undisputably better. yes, in low enemy density spores take a bit more work to spread, but where does the low enemy density happens? easy missions that did not need it anyway and can be just wiped up with new miasma instead.