List of required nerfs

[Ryunokage]

4 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

this is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. without a large ammo pool, Flamethrowers are useless because they consume ammo rapidly, it's in their nature. punch through is obviously going to be a thing because you're not firing a solid projectile that can be stopped, but flames that can wrap around anything they touch and hit things behind them. again, Flamethrowers are supposed to do this, in any game not just Warframe. your third point is also redundant; of course there are tight confines in Warframe's environments. because funnily enough this a HORDE SHOOTER. your fourth point can be countered by simple.. oh I dunno, moving out of the way of the person using the flamethrower? and finally, point number 5, flamethrowers are never intended to be used in short bursts; they are room clearing weapon, you're supposed to hold the trigger down until there's nothing left or you have to reload. "hosing down for extended periods of time".. that is literally the purpose of a flamethrower; to hose down things with napalm for extended periods of time.

you are literally saying we should use flamethrowers the opposite way to which they are intended. i seriously hope that you're a troll, and aren't actually this deluded.  

 

Flamer throwers as weapons were employed in WW1 and subsequently in WW2, these devices generally only had enough fuel and propellant to allow for short durations of fire, with no reloading, but were highly effective in clearing bunkers and in jungle fighting.

By comparison flamers in warframe are universally effective, but ever only in lower levels, and tend to be more of a nuisance then help at higher level content owing to enemy scaling.

Suggested changes to flame thrower mechanics intend to bring the flamer back to that same concept:

• short range
• highly destructive
• tactically specific application

My current gripe with the flamethrowers is that they're currently weak, requiring long periods of exposure to hose a target down, while also interfering with sight lines. Suggested changes with allow flame throwers to remain effective even in sortie level content, while making their use sufficiently specialized that other players would not need to hose groups of enemies down at length and thus avoid obstructing line of sight for other players in their group.

4 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Trinity's been nerfed more times than any other Warframe, Castanas should take the fall for this one as nobody even used them prior to the discovery of Castanuke Trin, for the exact same reason we use them now; self damage. self damage doesn't synergize with other Warframes but instead hinders them greatly. this is not a Trinity problem, this is an Onslaught Problem, as that's the game mode where it's rapidly becoming the Meta.

working as intended. your point about Macros regarding this is also redundant; not everybody uses Macros. take Macro support out of Warframe, problem solved.

also working as intended. people spam it, sure, but they'll be doing it less with the melee changes.

1. Trinity

• reasonable argument to make. Agree that castanas are the main culprit.
• however feel that altering the weapon would simply allow abusers to switch to another self-damaging weapon to achieve a similar effect.
• additionally suggested alterations to link would force players who run trinity to be more circumspect at using explosive weapons then currently.
• not certain if abuse is confined to ESO. I see similar abuses of this combination in defense, mobile defense and other similarly confined game modes.

2. Mend/maim

• have to disagree regarding "working as intended": combined with AoE weapons, equinox players can build large damage stacks almost instantaneously
• combined with ability's characteristic to ignore line of sight, allows for rapid and minimal risk wiping of tiles.
• macros previously discussed by community, DE has little apparent interest in banning them.

3. Spin attacks

• willing to hopefully concurr. Players might spam less following melee changes, if DE carries through with intent to reduce melee ranges

[SneakyErvin]

24 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

Flamer throwers as weapons were employed in WW1 and subsequently in WW2, these devices generally only had enough fuel and propellant to allow for short durations of fire, with no reloading, but were highly effective in clearing bunkers and in jungle fighting.

By comparison flamers in warframe are universally effective, but ever only in lower levels, and tend to be more of a nuisance then help at higher level content owing to enemy scaling.

We are a long long long way into the future where tech has probably advanced quite a bit since WW1 and WW2.

Also you should probably mod better if your flamers only work well at lower levels.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

10 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

As the title states, this post is a list of things in the game, be they weapon or warframe that needs to a relook. Its not a static list and i expect it to grow as other members of the community make their own suggestions.

Warframe abilities:

1. Trinity link

• frequently used in conjunction with explosive/self damaging weapons
• ignores line of sight
• many builds allow trinity to cover whole maps with impunity
• current iteration also lends itself to automation. Cast ability, detonate explosives on self, repeat.
• combination of extreme range, functioning through walls/obstacles and automation - severely affects play experience for other players in the game
• Suggestion: Change link's damage absorbtion to ignore self damage weapons, ie trinity abusing link with self damage would blow themselves up.

2. Equinox mend/maim

• extreme range
• ignores line of sight
• combined with whip weapons like the atterax, allows for rapid build up of stored damage
• this functions synergistically with whip spin spam, players using this can rapidly build up stored damage with a few executions of their macro, before unleashing the stored damage to hit enemies in a very wide radious
• very disruptive in confined game modes, such as onslaught, defense. Smaller map sizes and plenty of intervening obstacles prevents other players on the team from engaging in combat, when enemies do appear they're sufficiently clustered for the spin-spammer to wipe them out in a second and at the same time build a large stack of damage to wipe the rest of the map as well.
• Suggestion: unsure, this will likely become difficult to do once melee range nerfs take effect, but all the same it needs to at least be stopped by line of sight.

 

Weapons:

1. Spin attack melee

• even following the recent change in their mechanic that prevented players from using this through walls, spin spam continues to severely affect group playstyles.
• large area of effect
• rapid attack speed when used in conjunction with whips and polearms.
• no penalties or limitations to its use
  • players free to use this with impunity 
• allows singular players to very often wipe groups of enemies out in a single strike
  • problem exacerbated by use of macros that allow repeated spam.
• Suggestion: Implementing spin attack recovery animations, with variations among the weapon classes
  • further differentiates weapon classes with one another with more specific benefits and costs between them. May make for more meaningful weapon selection
  • example: polearm/whip: 2 seconds to recover, vs sparring weapons, nil recovery period

2. Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

Trinity- okay, as long as her other abilities aren't nerfed either. De have a habit of breaking a frame simply because of 1 ability (Saryn, Ember, probably others)

Equinox- rarely run across an equinox who does what you described, so I mean either way its whatever for me.

Spin attacks- hehe no. They took away wall clipping already, is that not enough? What kind of nerf is this?

Flamethrowers- flamethrowers (aka the one and only ignis) already have a terrible ammo economy unless you're using carrier or a mod, and they fall off quickly at higher levels. Another unnecessary nerf to an already underused archetype.

[tucker_d_dawg]

You forgot:

• Nerf frost - a bubble you can't shoot through is OP. And don't get me started on ice wave impediment slowing everything down making it easy to head shot
• Nerf Loki - seriously? a frame that can disarm everything and make them fight eachother while staying invisible?
• Nerf Octavia - Just do it already
• Nerf Harrow - energy providing, healing, crowd control AND Crit all rolled into one? OP.
• Nerf Saryn - clearly pre-work was OP (just too many ppl played her poorly) and post rework is silly
• Nerf volt - stunlocking the whole map dealing crazy damage while giving rediculous overshields? COME'ON MAN
• Nerf Mag - armor stripping, CC, damage dealing wench - she needs to be hit hard with the nerf bat
• Nerf Hydroid - 100% extra loot? Thats broken in a grinding game
• Nerf Nekros - despoil for hours of looting fun while almost unkillable? OP.

Hit your frame yet? No?

• Better nerf Ivara - solo survival or defense until the game breaks?
• Nerf Limbo - AFK cheese mode for mobile defense is boring
• Nerf Chroma - can STILL one shot those pesky eidolon limbs
• Nerf Gara - I mean her 2 + 4 is completely broken as you waltz through level 200 enemies bump-killing them.

There are more frames that need nerfs - but we need time to focus on weapons

Specifically

• We definitely need to nerf all guns.  I am sick and tired of running after an enemy with my melee only to have him one shot by a teammate from across the room.
• Any melee with more than 4m range needs a nerf - 4 METERS - really? you are swinging around a 12 foot two by four? which is pretty much any weapon other than fist weapons.  Don't even get me started on 15 METER whips.

MODS? 4x Corrosive? Seriously? how can they let this fly - its the ONLY defense the poor grineer have.  NO auras should stack. That will fix stuff.

But back to warframes

• Can't forget Rhino - stunlocking the room while giving team a rediculous damage buff?
• And Valkyr - Invincibility? Really?
• Wukong - he's been hit hard recently but not hard enough - no one should be able to defy the enemies. thats OP.
• Ash - armorstripping, invisibility, mutli-target marking, fatal teleporting, blade storming monster killers just shouldn't be a thing.
• Excaliber - he might be in a good place but after an hour of listening to someone woosh woosh woosh you'll be wishing for a nerf too.
• And an auto turret? Come'on man!  Mesa needs a slap upside the head with the nerf bat.

 

 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

This is basically "nerf what everyone is using in elite onslaught reeeeeeeeee"

[LordNero86]

I hope this all just for giggles...

 

And while at it, why don't we add DnD dice roll style for each weapon to hit or crit targets

[Talinthis]

11 hours ago, Lucavee said:

1. Suicide trin is strong mainly thanks to sancti castana buff and riven. Its annoying to play with but its also very limited in usage. I hardly ever meet one outside of ESO. If you want this nerfed, go after the weapon, not the trin.

 

Either that or destroy one of the mods aerial resistance or radioactive resistance. That S#&$ isn't survivable unless you have both. Not like anyone actually uses them anyway.

[Talinthis]

1 hour ago, tucker_d_dawg said:

You forgot:

• Nerf frost - a bubble you can't shoot through is OP. And don't get me started on ice wave impediment slowing everything down making it easy to head shot
• Nerf Loki - seriously? a frame that can disarm everything and make them fight eachother while staying invisible?
• Nerf Octavia - Just do it already
• Nerf Harrow - energy providing, healing, crowd control AND Crit all rolled into one? OP.
• Nerf Saryn - clearly pre-work was OP (just too many ppl played her poorly) and post rework is silly
• Nerf volt - stunlocking the whole map dealing crazy damage while giving rediculous overshields? COME'ON MAN
• Nerf Mag - armor stripping, CC, damage dealing wench - she needs to be hit hard with the nerf bat
• Nerf Hydroid - 100% extra loot? Thats broken in a grinding game
• Nerf Nekros - despoil for hours of looting fun while almost unkillable? OP.

Hit your frame yet? No?

• Better nerf Ivara - solo survival or defense until the game breaks?
• Nerf Limbo - AFK cheese mode for mobile defense is boring
• Nerf Chroma - can STILL one shot those pesky eidolon limbs
• Nerf Gara - I mean her 2 + 4 is completely broken as you waltz through level 200 enemies bump-killing them.

There are more frames that need nerfs - but we need time to focus on weapons

Specifically

• We definitely need to nerf all guns.  I am sick and tired of running after an enemy with my melee only to have him one shot by a teammate from across the room.
• Any melee with more than 4m range needs a nerf - 4 METERS - really? you are swinging around a 12 foot two by four? which is pretty much any weapon other than fist weapons.  Don't even get me started on 15 METER whips.

MODS? 4x Corrosive? Seriously? how can they let this fly - its the ONLY defense the poor grineer have.  NO auras should stack. That will fix stuff.

But back to warframes

• Can't forget Rhino - stunlocking the room while giving team a rediculous damage buff?
• And Valkyr - Invincibility? Really?
• Wukong - he's been hit hard recently but not hard enough - no one should be able to defy the enemies. thats OP.
• Ash - armorstripping, invisibility, mutli-target marking, fatal teleporting, blade storming monster killers just shouldn't be a thing.
• Excaliber - he might be in a good place but after an hour of listening to someone woosh woosh woosh you'll be wishing for a nerf too.
• And an auto turret? Come'on man!  Mesa needs a slap upside the head with the nerf bat.

 

 

I am glad you left my innocent equinox out of this. We are just trying to live our lives

[tucker_d_dawg]

51 minutes ago, Talinthis said:

I am glad you left my innocent equinox out of this. We are just trying to live our lives

The OP had already covered that OP transformative beast. 😉

[Roguetroop]

5 hours ago, Krhymez said:

Make sure everyone gets their weekly bingo cards. 

By far the most hilarious response in a thread that I have read on this forum so far. Thanks for this, you made my day.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Nuke Trinity is very likely going to be nerfed I've been playing Warframe a long time and I've been doing some ESO with some Trinity's that destroy everything before they even fully appear on my screen across the entire map, any frame that does that just gets nerfed that's just the way it is. I'm not advocating for it, it's just going to eventually happen.

Equinox probably won't get nerfed flamethrowers already partly were with the punch through thing. Melee 3.0 seems to be a melee nerf in General but it's still fairly early we'll see what eventually gets implemented.

[xcenic]

I tend to think that people whit crap frame, weapon and riven always *@##$ about nerf thing they don't have. 

Spend some money son and buy some good stuff and enjoy this PVE nothing competitive game. 

[(PSN)XephonixAwesome]

boi why do you want nerfs

[(PSN)XephonixAwesome]

16 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

As the title states, this post is a list of things in the game, be they weapon or warframe that needs to a relook. Its not a static list and i expect it to grow as other members of the community make their own suggestions.

Warframe abilities:

1. Trinity link

• frequently used in conjunction with explosive/self damaging weapons
• ignores line of sight
• many builds allow trinity to cover whole maps with impunity
• current iteration also lends itself to automation. Cast ability, detonate explosives on self, repeat.
• combination of extreme range, functioning through walls/obstacles and automation - severely affects play experience for other players in the game
• Suggestion: Change link's damage absorbtion to ignore self damage weapons, ie trinity abusing link with self damage would blow themselves up.

2. Equinox mend/maim

• extreme range
• ignores line of sight
• combined with whip weapons like the atterax, allows for rapid build up of stored damage
• this functions synergistically with whip spin spam, players using this can rapidly build up stored damage with a few executions of their macro, before unleashing the stored damage to hit enemies in a very wide radious
• very disruptive in confined game modes, such as onslaught, defense. Smaller map sizes and plenty of intervening obstacles prevents other players on the team from engaging in combat, when enemies do appear they're sufficiently clustered for the spin-spammer to wipe them out in a second and at the same time build a large stack of damage to wipe the rest of the map as well.
• Suggestion: unsure, this will likely become difficult to do once melee range nerfs take effect, but all the same it needs to at least be stopped by line of sight.

 

Weapons:

1. Spin attack melee

• even following the recent change in their mechanic that prevented players from using this through walls, spin spam continues to severely affect group playstyles.
• large area of effect
• rapid attack speed when used in conjunction with whips and polearms.
• no penalties or limitations to its use
  • players free to use this with impunity 
• allows singular players to very often wipe groups of enemies out in a single strike
  • problem exacerbated by use of macros that allow repeated spam.
• Suggestion: Implementing spin attack recovery animations, with variations among the weapon classes
  • further differentiates weapon classes with one another with more specific benefits and costs between them. May make for more meaningful weapon selection
  • example: polearm/whip: 2 seconds to recover, vs sparring weapons, nil recovery period

2. Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

so you're complaining about not getting kills?

[Ryunokage]

4 hours ago, xcenic said:

I tend to think that people whit crap frame, weapon and riven always *@##$ about nerf thing they don't have. 

Spend some money son and buy some good stuff and enjoy this PVE nothing competitive game. 

I have everything, except for founder's items and the kronen prime.

having a set of overpowered weapons renders the width and variety of my arsenal moot if a large segment of my available weapons and options are going to be worthless with some of the aforementioned abuses around.

7 hours ago, Talinthis said:

Either that or destroy one of the mods aerial resistance or radioactive resistance. That S#&$ isn't survivable unless you have both. Not like anyone actually uses them anyway.

viable alternative, though i remain in favour of altering link to ignore self-damage, if only to prevent players from carelessly wielding high explosive weapons at close range.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)XephonixAwesome said:

boi why do you want nerfs

current state of warframe renders much of my arsenal inconsequential, useful support frames for example, like the harrow require kills and headshots to be effective.

kills difficult to achieve when someone is wiping enemies before they even enter line of sight, ie where the majority of the game's weapons and warframes may engage or otherwise using AoE abilities or weapons to destroy groups before you can line up a headshot.

If these weapons are not nerfed, it reduces warframe to a state where players can mechanically go through a series of monotonous tasks with minimal engagement to get ahead, at the same time spoiling the game for everyone else. I'm trying to avoid this scenario.

[Tsardova]

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

(Grabs Popcorn, leans recliner back and smiles)

Ah, this should be good.

[(PSN)thowed]

Can we get buffs and reworks on all the trash stuff first?

[(PSN)Radehx]

If this isn't a troll post, I feel sorry for OP.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

Nuke Trinity HAS to go. 

 

 

It makes the game completely unplayable for anyone else in the lobby. Meanwhile Trinity just sits there and kills everything on the map in seconds. Its gotten to the point where I just intentionally let the Trinity die by not reviving them or if they are able to do it without dying I simply leave. 

[(XBOX)ActualRook]

What about buffing things instead of nerfing everything?

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

DE needs to better their game first and then talk about nerfs. This game is becoming a Senran Kagura horde wiping hack n slash hentai game. They just need to do a better job on how to make this game challenging. For instance some early stages of the game are actually quite enjoyable while retaining sense of challenge and progression with only my starting frame excalibur.

I’m mr25 and I recently started another character. The answer was there. Just stop spamming thousands of weak enemies and cc spams coming from 360 degrees every 3 seconds. Make high level enemies just simply stronger, not greyed out health bar, no weak points, no one shot explosives coming out of nowhere. Less enemies but simply stonger, more health, more dmg. And only a few who invested huge amount of time can 1 shot those enemies not some random mr2 guy with a free vectis. This way nuke trin isn’t even good anymore because it can’t trigger respawn anymore. Noone complained about it for 2 years. That build has been exactly the same for 2 years and along those 2 years this game  has gotton so much more popular.

DE please just turn on your computer, load your game engine, summon a random frame with 8 forma vectis and a simple grineer lancer, shoot his head while increasing his health until it won’t die with 10 shots, put a few of them in the game instead of stupid commander or corpus rolling balls or grineer knockdown lady in a swimsuit.

Even Senran Kagura does miles better job at creating sense of difficulty while wf does better job making buttocks look plausible.

Edited May 24, 2018 by (PS4)johnsoigne

[(XBOX)deathopz123]

Hasn't abating link trinity always been a thing? Hasn't equinox always had it's fourth ability? 

Why ask for nerfs in a "PVE" game? 

Heck lets nerf ammo drum cause it makes clems over powered.

Idk about youguys but the days when most frames were "broken" were the best days to be playing this game. 

Valkyr, saryn, ash, nova, trinity, mesa, and alot of other frames have been called reworks which usually means nerfed alot of those frames were people's favorite frames untill their nerfing to the ground of their best abilities.

They nerf things in the wrong way I feel like they could increase energy useage on certain abilities to make them not so op.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)deathopz123 said:

Hasn't abating link trinity always been a thing? Hasn't equinox always had it's fourth ability? 

Why ask for nerfs in a "PVE" game? 

 

Because some things (like Nuke Trinity for example) affect other players ability to properly play the game. 

 

I am fine if people wanna have crazy builds so long as it doesn't affect my ability to enjoy the game. 

[Twilight053]

There's four ways to nerf Link Trinity. Aviator mod, Diamond Skin mod, Sancti Castanas and Trinity themselves.

Let it either be Aviator or Diamond Skin.