COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.

[DomoSapien]

Just now, Streaky_Haddock said:

I respect founders. They invested heavily into a game with an uncertain future. Their benefits don't affect me now I have excalibur umbra, the prisma skana and lato vandal. I am jealous of their fancy lisets, but I'm not going to throw a fit and demand I get one.

Unless I missed something, I don't believe Founder's got Liset Prime. Liset Prime was part of one the early Prime Access packs.

Thanks for your input.

PS. I'm super jealous of Liset Prime myself. I want it so bad.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

5 minutes ago, Streaky_Haddock said:

I respect founders. They invested heavily into a game with an uncertain future. Their benefits don't affect me now I have excalibur umbra, the prisma skana and lato vandal. I am jealous of their fancy lisets, but I'm not going to throw a fit and demand I get one.

The Liset Prime skin came with Valkyr Prime’s PA Accessories. 

[Streaky_Haddock]

Good to know!

[CupcakesMoo]

>literally anything

Excalibur prime does not really exist.

If I dropped 300 dollars on this game today, and it won't be worth as much as the 300 a founder paid, I feel like I shouldn't do that.

I feel like I am doing more of your assignment than you let on. 

 

[DomoSapien]

13 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

>literally anything

Excalibur prime does not really exist.

If I dropped 300 dollars on this game today, and it won't be worth as much as the 300 a founder paid, I feel like I shouldn't do that.

I feel like I am doing more of your assignment than you let on. 

 

Care to elaborate further?

[Nihillian]

I see a lot of comments about Founders being berated and I kinda feel the same mostly because that happens to me as well.

Example from since this update is:"now your 200$ frame is useless as everyone got a better version." or "Feels pretty bad to pay for a frame that is inferior to Umbra".

Seriously? I bought it for Prime, sure, but also to support a game that I saw potential in in a time were the game was basic. I did not buy it to be insulted or to feel superior to others. 

Sure, there are a few elitist vocal founders that think they need everything but there are many that are just quite and don't even think about it most of the time, myself included.

Would it be nice if they added a little thing to Prime? Sure. Is it needed/necessary? Nope.

Anways, not saying that your contribution to WF is inferior to what founders payed. It's just a difference in time and content that was out. That is it. 

If founders found it worth to infest in the game at that state back then, they will surely think it is to put that money in the game right now. Something I believe in my case. None of my plat purchases (or fast amount of Tennogen purchases which are def worth it, props to all the creators) made me feel guilty or feel like I shouldn't have.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Nihillian

[Valiant]

Just find it frustrating that sometimes people post threads that just focuses on their side and is filled with 'me me me' and doesn't consider the others feelings. I find it equally insulting that people think loop holes of dual lato and skana's are a cool idea. Is there any actual necessity for such a underhanded thing just to appease those who complain too much?

Furthermore the suggestion of founders being given further exclusives in return for what we have... How does one think that trading one exclusive for another is a good idea? Some people didn't pay for xyz, they paid for what was advertised.

I also honestly think DE should either give out the Mr points we have or remove them to easily sort out one side of it as that's the general complaint I see about founders/gear in general. Most of us know the items probably wouldn't be as frequently used as suggested and people mainly seem to think about the Mr.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Valiant

[DomoSapien]

2 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Just find it frustrating that sometimes people post threads that just focuses their side and is filled with 'me me me' and doesn't consider the others feelings.

I hope this post caters to this notion for you. If you have any improvements on what I can do for this opinion thread itself, I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for your input.

[puppycorpse]

I feel as a founder even if your nice and not an elitiest jerk you get put into the category as one which stinks. Some people won't even let me help them cause I'm a founder. The founder pack was a poor attempt to get the game started and for many of us was a gamble. I feel it was the de poor decision that led to the elitiest mentality of some founders but  a split between the community in some aspects. People also need to realize New comers have no clue that u can never get these items again and no there not complaining they just don't know. Others on the other hand do complain and need to move on. Especially since umbra excal is a thing now. I feel like because of it , we have a loose loose cituation. I hate to break it to everyone but everyone gets hurt from it . Not just non founders or just founders. Everyone. Also the notion of I've spent more money then you really needs to stop. It's so dumb.  We all support the game, we're all one community. It's time we start acting like it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by puppycorpse

[Soulden]

Grateful.

Founders are like war veterans, everyone wants their glory, not many would bleed ($$$) for it. (at the time - adding to go safe)

And just as war deserters, there are founders who also feel left out of the entire game development process, although Founder Program wasn't a for hire deal.
It was just a sales event, nothing more.

And of course there are Founders who since they had to walk in the snow both ways, they see everyone else as spoiled and forget that their struggles and input on it, was the force behind all improvements.

Should their input and initial donation needs to be considered heavily or even entirely, over any other players at this point, nope.
At the time, sure DE has little input to go on from, so why not listen to the only passionate players willing to risk their cash for it, seems logical to me.
But at some point, DE actually had to make a choice, and being exclusive/reclusive was not it; 5 years and 30+ registered players seems to agree with DE, and actually has ensured ambitious and continuous game development for the last 3 years.

That said, personally, as a player, they got my gratitude.
Entirely denying or undermining their contributions would not just be insulting to the Founders Program, but very insulting to Digital Extremes as well.

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Souldend78

[Man_In_Suitcase]

I see the whole Excalibur Prime/Umbra thing akin to two siblings arguing over the same thing, because the younger one's now got something new and better than what his older sibling has. So the older sibling end ups getting the same as the younger one as that's only fair, so they now have the same, but it still feel doesn't feel adequate enough in his mind, despite him having something special that the younger hasn't and will never get. "I had it first so why should my sibling have one better?" "My old one feels useless now and I don't feel as special anymore..."

Honestly, it's quite petulant and it's worrying to think how old some these people really are. It's not like anyone has gotten what founders have, that's still exclusively theirs and rightly so, but spouting hyperbloat that Excalbur Prime completely useless because Umbra's has higher stats or I can't fit the Umbra mods into my prime's build due to not having the polarities is nonsense. The two are different sides of the same coin, the latter being better at dealing with different content (Sentients) even though there's a lack of that at the moment until we end up in Tau. And for Umbra mods not being to have the polarity on Primes or other frames? Good, they shouldn't be as they are not a Umbra variant of that Warframe.  

If anything Excalibur Prime feels more special now, he's still unique being the first "Prime" but this pandering to founders needs to stop somewhere, a line has to be drawn about competing for superiority to retain the former glory. It's sad to see this reaction from some. 

To surmise; grateful.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Man_In_Suitcase
Forgot one word!

[SilentMobius]

One word summary: "Worked"

I was happy to spend the money, it worked out for me, I didn't particularly want "exclusivity" I just wanted access to Excalibur Prime, I'm happy I was a little part of keeping this game afloat.

I like the look of Excalibur Umbra and have no issues with it existing. I kinda wish that the mastery had been exclusive of the equivalent founders items to minimize the head start that founders have (I don't think we really needed that) but that will go away given enough time and everyone will have enough mastery to reach MR30.

I think DE pretty much paid me back with the open bar at TennoVIP 2016 anyway.

[The_Lunatic_]

4 minutes ago, Man_In_Suitcase said:

I see the whole Excalibur Prime/Umbra thing akin to two siblings arguing over the same thing, because the younger one's now got something new and better than what his older sibling has. So the older sibling end ups getting the same as the younger one as that's only fair, so they now have the same, but it still feel doesn't feel adequate enough in his mind. "I had it first so why should my sibling have one better?" "My old one feels useless now and I don't feel as special anymore..."

Only really an accurate comparison if you factor in that one cost actual money and was promised to be exclusive.

 

[RoninJed]

7 hours ago, toxicpanda said:

I know I am not a founder and all, but I still want to share my opinion, I hope I an't breaking any rules. Anyways, on to the matter at hand. I started playing at around 2013 or so, I believe they were still doing the founders program. It looked, at the time, enticing but I admittedly refused to participate in it. Mainly cause the venture it self was risky, and well not worth it. The game was in an uncertain state, I don't think anyone at the time expected the game to succeed, nor gain such traction over the years.

Personally, I was just as surprised seeing the game explode in popularity, after coming back to it around 2015. Not only had the game exploded in popularity, but it managed to form a solid community and a strong following. Again, I need to emphasize this, no one expected this at all. I myself wrote this game off, and expected it to fail in its shortcomings. Yet here we are, millions play the game, and possibly thousands are active each day. That in of itself is an accomplishment.

The game has indeed evolved over the years. Regardless if said evolvement led to questionable design choices, is irrelevant.

Anyways I may have side tracked, forgive me. Regarding the issue at hand, I never really understood the stigma towards founders. To be frank with you all, I see them mostly as people who made a terrible financial decision that could have backfired tremendously. However, it didn't, instead they became a part of the game's history. By help "kickstarting" it and at least pushing it towards the current success it came upon. Either by spreading the game by word of mouth, or by indirectly helping in the marketing for the game. Regardless, Whether it was a venture worth recognizing, is up to such individuals who embarked on it. 

Moving on, regarding the exclusive stuff, I don't care. Exclusivity sells, an't nothing wrong with that. I will admit at least, that DE shot the bull, when they made the exclusivity life time. However, if the issue lies in that, non-founders got a much better toy, aka umbra. Then founders are acting a bit spoiled, and well, entitled.

I am in the exact same boat as you except i stumbled across Warframe right after the founder's program ended. Even if I was here for it I don't think I would've taken that leap of faith and put up 80 to 250 bucks so I appreciate those who did and respect DE for keeping their promise to these people.

Now if I knew then what I know now then I would've definitely paid for it hehe. Over the years I've spent double that but can honestly say I did it to help support DE. I never felt like I HAD to spend the money in order to play/enjoy the game. 

All these years I have never seen a person getting harassed for using excalibur prime. I also have never seen anyone harassing people while using excalibur prime. Of course I've come across some elite jerks who want to talk down to everyone but I can't say if they were a founder or not...I don't bother to look just click ignore hehe. 

I will wrap this up by saying I don't really care if DE allows excalibur prime to use umbra as a skin...even though they are technically different frames. I've seen many founders complain about excal prime being ugly compared to other primes so seeing them asking for DE to allow them to use it on umbra now seems strange. I mean if it's not for bragging rights then why would they want that ugly excalibur prime skin over umbra?

Edited June 16, 2018 by RoninJed

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

I don't have one word to describe my opinion:

I am sooooo sick of the "founders are special" mentality and the "founders deserve exclusivity to anything but Excalibur prime".

1) A dollar is a dollar and it doesn't matter if it's from an MR0 player who just started or a founder who's been here from day 1. Old AND "new" players supporting DE are why we have content, period, over 5 years after release.

2) as far as I know, founders were promised that they wouldn't make Excalibur prime available. But they weren't promised the exclusive rights to every version of Excalibur to ever exist, and they certainly weren't promised that Excalibur prime will never be surpassed.

 

 

[Thalahssalyst]

hace 7 minutos, Man_In_Suitcase dijo:

I see the whole Excalibur Prime/Umbra thing akin to two siblings arguing over the same thing, because the younger one's now got something new and better than what his older sibling has. So the older sibling end ups getting the same as the younger one as that's only fair, so they now have the same, but it still feel doesn't feel adequate enough in his mind, despite him having something special that the younger hasn't and will never get. "I had it first so why should my sibling have one better?" "My old one feels useless now and I don't feel as special anymore..."

Honestly, it's quite petulant and it's worrying to think how old some these people really are. It's not like anyone has gotten what founders have, that's still exclusively theirs and rightly so, but spouting hyperbole that Excalbur Prime completely useless because Umbra's has higher stats or I can't fit the Umbra mods into my prime's build due to not having the polarities is nonsense. The two are different sides of the same coin, the latter being better at dealing with different content (Sentients) even though there's a lack of that of that at the moment until we end up in Tau. And for Umbra mods not being to have the polarity on Primes or other frames? Good, they shouldn't be as they are not a Umbra variant of that Warframe.  

If anything Excalibur Prime feels more special now, he's still unique being the first "Prime" but this pandering to founders needs to stop somewhere, a line has to be drawn about competing for superiority to retain the former glory. It's sad to see this reaction from some. 

 

[Man_In_Suitcase]

13 minutes ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Only really an accurate comparison if you factor in that one cost actual money and was promised to be exclusive. 

Excalibur Prime is exclusive. I don't get what you mean by "promised." Umbra is not Prime, something that founders appear to be having difficulties with. Like I've said, different sides of the same coin, but perhaps it should just be Prime on both sides imma right?

Edited June 16, 2018 by Man_In_Suitcase

[KayEvSki]

I bet most of the community will say that the Founder program should never come back for fear of criticism of other people. I will say what I think and what I feel about it.

I do not mind the return of Excalibur Prime, it's always more exp and the final difference between the founders and other players will be evened out. However, this is not the stuff, which I really care about, because there are no especially good statistics (I do not know how it's with Lato Prime) and I would use it more often in Captura or in fashionframe. The reason why I would like to return Excal Prime is the "snap nose" for "Founders with Complex of God", i.e. those who pride themselves on the title, they feel that they are better than others and treat other players like sh**. I also understand that some people who are Founders feel good about having this status; but this is just a game, not a life. Besides, if someone has the status of what can it be that someone who for example is nonFounder has Excalibur Prime if he also has it? Here we have another reason why it would be good to restore Excalibur Prime; we need to root out our community's maliciousness caused by having unique items. People are malicious to each other because, for example, one has an object and is happy about it, while someone else does not have it; but when someone gets such an item because, for example, bought in the promotion, immediately the first owner has an unprecedented grudge and bullsh** to the person who sold or gave someone the item. If I have something, I don't care what others have, because it's important for me what I have, no what others have. And this should apply to everyone, not only the Founders. This maliciousness in the community must be DESTROYED, FLAMED and REVOLVED!!

 And saying that "When Excalibur Prime will be released for everyone it will be the end of Warframe." it's nonsense and bullsh**! If someone wants to play and will definitely want to, he will play. Not only that, he will continue to enjoy the game to the same extent. Simple.

I have it all from me, I hope that I can understand my message and that I have not offended anyone.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I think console should get a chance to contribute to the Founders' Program. I don't think DE should release the Founders' exclusives in general, but console should get a chance to contribute and get the exclusives.

[SenariousNex]

What I think

I am MR 25, non-founder, 2600 hours in, and have every single weapon/warframe in the game sans the founder items and sigma/octanis (and Detron cause Zanuka refuses to drop the BP 100+ kills in)

Founder program is what allowed this game to exist today, and I am thankful to everyone who spent a ridiculous amount of money to get this whole thing going, especially considering  how sub-par the game was back then. and not knowing what a gem it would turn into. I was a founder in Archeage, Everquest Landmark and a few other games and let me tell you, it is a monumental gamble that does not pay off most of the time. 

Do I want founder items?

As a completionist, ofcourse I want the items, but in the spirit of gratitude towards the people who helped fund my amazing journey through Warframe,  I fully expect DE to keep their promise and never release founder items ever again. It is just something myself and every other warframe player will have to live with and learn to appreciate. And with Excalibur Umbra upgrade, Prisma Skana and Lato Vandal Sidegrades I do not find myself ever missing the Prime Variants. At this point in time they are nothing more than named reskins with a bit of mastery points attached to them.

I hope that answers it for you.

Would I buy founders pack if it was offered today?

Probably. but I wouldn't be particularly happy about it, it would be nice to have, but not really 250$ nice.

I hope I gave enough information about what you wanted to know.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

1 minute ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

I think console should get a chance to contribute to the Founders' Program. I don't think DE should release the Founders' exclusives in general, but console should get a chance to contribute and get the exclusives.

The Founder's program is over, it's finished and the game has been 'founded.'

[The_Lunatic_]

31 minutes ago, Man_In_Suitcase said:

Excalibur Prime is exclusive. I don't get what you mean by "promised." Umbra is not Prime, something that founders appear to be having difficulties with. Like I've said, different sides of the same coin, but perhaps it should just be Prime on both sides imma right?

To the letter, sure.

In spirit, it's kinda debatable. Certainly there's plenty of people who feel that they have got "One-over" on what Founders had, and all for free. And there's plenty of Founders who find the situation unfair.

Personally, I think it's kinda skeevy and dishonest. It's not the kind of thing I expected DE to pull when I backed them, and I guess if I'd known they'd do it, I wouldn't have.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

I just wish people would stop caring, really. We have alternative options to the Founders' items, the only difference is looks and a bit of mastery. If that bothers you then that really sucks but it doesn't mean they should change anything. Founders have their items to remind them of what they did and that's all they should have. There shouldn't be a power difference between a Founder and a non-Founder simply because one dropped some cash before the other, and now that there arguably isn't, it should be over with. That means a Founder shouldn't be stronger than a non-Founder who uses their alternatives to the gear, but it means the reverse is true too. If Umbra really is objectively better and not a sidegrade, then maybe it should be tweaked to be strong for Sentient combat when we get more of that, and reduced in other areas to keep it in line. 

 

[AllFiery]

I think DE should have never announced and promised that there is going to be a Founders’ Program. If the items from the package are still acquirable, then collectors would not have any problems in making their life complete and a bit more satisfied.

But if that happens, DE won’t have anything for the people who played in beta as thanks for supporting them from the beginning... I do not know which team I should be in. Some people think it is unfair, while others says it is.

 

Maybe they should have promised something else rather than a warframe? But if that’s the case, Excalibur Umbra would not exist in this day, because he existed due to the community’s reactions towards the Founders’ Program from the past.

 

Maybe DE should provide something that Non-Founders have that Founders does not have? But that would make Founders furious then.

[Gadeon]

Some founders feeling entitled once again and acting like snowflakes. Because of a frame everyone got. And because they cant put a umbra exclusive polarity on other frames. Wow totally didnt see that coming.