COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.

[DomoSapien]

4 hours ago, LordChronos said:

I’m not the OP that made the thread. I also think this entire thread and doing a founders program write up is a huge mistake and a waste of time, and clearly an attempt at creating a bigger rift in the community. I’m not surprised either if this ends up being OP’s attempt at trying making the founders gear available again in some way even knowing what DE’s stance is on the subject. 

I guess I'll spill some beans here, My post involves creating ADDITIONAL content. The discussion surrounding the Founder's Program and the associated opinions help perpetuate the need for new content unrelated to the Founder's Program. I know it seems weird on paper. I feel it will make a lot more sense when it's released.

 

My hope is that people don't get too tied up with speculation and just let the post come when it comes and judge it for it's merits then. I just wanted to get everyone's opinion to be involved in the creation of these additional ideas. I will be able to say that this idea wasn't mine alone and that the opinions of the active community influenced it. Ultimately, while the write up is still consists of my ideas, they were just shells; pilot projects. The opinions witnessed in this thread have influenced individual pieces of every idea.

 

Perhaps I can't explain it properly, but let me say this: As the creator for these initial ideas -the shells- it's amazing watching just how much applying these opinions to the ideas change their outcome.

 

I'm excited to make the post. It will just take some time.

Thanks for the input!

[DomoSapien]

2 hours ago, Albalrogue said:

From what I understand. The OP is trying to bridge the rift by bringing everyone's opinion on the table and get to the root of this division.

It is not ill willed, it is not to bring back the founder's program (he's already a master), it is an attempt to bring an end to this debacle once and for all.

If I'm wrong though, feel free to correct me Domosapien.

While it is not ill-willed, I will not be able to help some people think that way with having little to no information about what I'm creating. Is what it is.

However, to note what you spoke on, yes: what I'm doing is an attempt to bring an end to this debacle once and for all.

Outside of the PC community, there is a massive rift between the PC and consoles in regards to content missed as well.

I'm looking to create something for EVERYONE to enjoy, a unifying... thing. I don't want to use a specific word because it'd give it away >x>

Let me provide you a word, however, that has driven the passion and theme for what I'm working on:

 

Harmony

[DomoSapien]

6 hours ago, LordChronos said:

He’s a master. He doesn’t have Lato prime so he does have something to gain from the program. That is the only motive if it’s involving the return of the founders gears in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, why involve the founders program at all?

I concede. I'll indulge you for a moment.

Yes, were the Founder's Program were to come back, technically the only thing I would have to GAIN is the Lato Prime (and whatever other assets came with GM). However, and some insight on to a personal opinion I have (which I'm slapping myself for caving into); there's something regarding the Founder's Program I have significantly more value for than the Lato Prime. Take your Lato Prime, your Star Marker, and your Forum Tag. Were it to be so, I'd even offer to waive that capability if necessary, though I certainly wouldn't mind it. More stuff is more stuff, after all. There's something I value more in the Founder's Program, certainly something you're overlooking, and I intend on using that particular asset of the Founder's Program to... bolster a weak point of DE's Warframe franchise they've had for a while, and hell, potentially even their future franchises. While I won't sit here and lie that the post doesn't include mentioning that in some fashion, it's not the focus.

This particular thing, which I refuse to comment any further on at this time, is the founding piece for a gripe I've had with DE for quite some time. This particular topic is one of the THREE (it's starting to look like 5 based on a comment I saw from yesterday).

Now, the reflexive action may be to think that this is what it's all about. And that assumption would, once more, be incorrect. If I haven't made myself clear, I'll try so one more time. The Founder's Program, in regards to my post; and I do mean the PROGRAM itself, the part that involves Founder's getting objects, is a small and negligent portion of my post. It's what I'm spurring OFF of it that will take up a fair 90% of what the post.

I'm no stranger to this topic, I think that's pretty obvious. As such, I'm fully aware and accepting that merely bringing up the topic of the Founder's Program itself effectively warrants backlash, doubt, fear, etc. These things do not deter me ESPECIALLY when it won't end up being the focal point of my post. Unfortunately, we live in a day and age on the internet where attempting to convince someone else that their assumptions are incorrect is grounds for accusation. So be it.

I don't feel I owe you an explanation, nor am I saying that you're insisting one. However, the consistency of your efforts to devalue the merits of potential that my pending post may or may not have, without even seeing it, is growing tiresome. Yes, you don't know what I'm going to write about and I imagine, and have witnessed, that you think it's going to be what all the other posts have been. It's the entire narrative behind "Here we go again". I also understand that not having the information is frustrating because you can't help but insist it's going to be what it's always been. I can't do anything more than say you're wrong, and ask you to provide the benefit of the doubt, which, regarding some members in the community, is a hefty price to ask and for fair reason.

It's really unfortunate, but it's something I'm willing to accept.

In the end, you will see what you will see, and the post will fall to the mercy of the community. It'll get praise, or it'll get down voted to hell. It'll be ravaged or it will rise to the top. It will sink, or it will swim. Similar to how I was willing to throw the possibility of the posts existence on the quantity of result that THIS post will get, I'm more than willing to throw my post on the forums and let the community choose what to do with it. This is my first (and you can check my history) and last attempt to do something about an issue the community has dealt with forever. It may be a dead horse to a majority of other people, but it's not to me, and I have that right to make an attempt. The community will decide the rest.

 

Final Summation: There is no hidden motive. And were there to be a motive, it would be made public, and it will be when the FINAL post where I post both my IDEAS and OPINIONS is made and released. It'll be pretty easy to discern the intent of the post then.

Edited June 18, 2018 by DomoSapien
Missed final comment. At work, and I spaced on it.

[CupcakesMoo]

6 hours ago, Lockheed said:

Again, When the founders package was a thing, excalibur prime had the exact same stats as original Excalibur. There was no difference. The change to excal prime happened well after the founders program was shut-down, so your misguided point is entirely irrelevant.

That's not the kind of power I'm talking about. It's the social and popularity power. 

So Your point is misguided and your existence is theoretical.

Edited June 18, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[LordChronos]

5 hours ago, DomoSapien said:

I'm looking to create something for EVERYONE to enjoy, a unifying... thing. I don't want to use a specific word because it'd give it away >x>
Let me provide you a word, however, that has driven the passion and theme for what I'm working on:

Harmony

New content and Ideas would be great and they already exist in the form of Prime Access but if you involve the Founder's program then you seek to only create DISHARMONY and to disregard everyone who feels a certain way about it that you do NOT agree with. You don't need to bring the Founder's program into this to create NEW content. DE is creating content that's equally available for Founders and Non-founders all the time for FREE!!!

 

5 hours ago, DomoSapien said:

However, to note what you spoke on, yes: what I'm doing is an attempt to bring an end to this debacle once and for all.

DE has already created Excalibur Umbra to bridge that gap and that Umbra Warframe is FREE and available to everyone to create a level playing field.  There is NO debacle to end as DE has already done that with Excalibur Umbra.

5 hours ago, DomoSapien said:

Harmony

5 hours ago, DomoSapien said:

I guess I'll spill some beans here, My post involves creating ADDITIONAL content. The discussion surrounding the Founder's Program and the associated opinions help perpetuate the need for new content unrelated to the Founder's Program. I know it seems weird on paper. I feel it will make a lot more sense when it's released.

Creating ADDITIONAL content? The need for new content unrelated to the Founder's Program? Then why bring up the Founder's Program at all? To attract the haters who can't be pleased on all sides? 

 

2 hours ago, DomoSapien said:

Final Summation: There is no hidden motive. And were there to be a motive, it would be made public, and it will be when the FINAL post where I post both my IDEAS and OPINIONS is made and released. It'll be pretty easy to discern the intent of the post then.

We shall see when you are done with your post if it really is just another attempt at demanding a release of the Founder's gears in some way, shape or form which I am against. 

There's always a motive for everything. We'll see how unrelated your ideas are to the Founder's Program and what harmonious ideas you have to offer. 

 

[Cattlefish]

22 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

DE has already created Excalibur Umbra to bridge that gap and that Umbra Warframe is FREE and available to everyone to create a level playing field.  There is NO debacle to end as DE has already done that with Excalibur Umbra.

Yet said debacle has only worsened with some founders being very vocal about how Exacalibur prime is obsolete with Umbra being "an upgrade to prime" and sorts.

[DomoSapien]

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

New content and Ideas would be great and they already exist in the form of Prime Access but if you involve the Founder's program then you seek to only create DISHARMONY and to disregard everyone who feels a certain way about it that you do NOT agree with.

The problem with what you're looking at, or perhaps how you're looking at it, is that the Founder's Program only offered physical items (or digital, w/e). There's a big hole left over from the concept of Excalibur Prime specifically. We can make the conversation about the physical contents all we want, but we get no where doing it.

 

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

DE has already created Excalibur Umbra to bridge that gap and that Umbra Warframe is FREE and available to everyone to create a level playing field.  There is NO debacle to end as DE has already done that with Excalibur Umbra.

I've tried to avoid Umbra as much as possible (for the record, I think he's pretty dope, but his style is not my taste :P) in this thread to avoid the association that this thread has anything to do with the Umbra release, so I just want to re-instate that real quick for other reads aside from yourself: THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT UMBRA. Onto your point.

Saying that Umbra created a level playing field is like is like saying the need for exploring space is over because we built a better rocket. They're related, but they're not quantifiable in their purpose. The search through space is about finding out more about our universe while building the rockets, though it helps with space travel, is more about technology than anything else. Umbra created a response, but not a solution. There's more of a gap here than just a physical item for everyone and this is what I referenced earlier when I said it goes beyond physical items.

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

Creating ADDITIONAL content? The need for new content unrelated to the Founder's Program? Then why bring up the Founder's Program at all? To attract the haters who can't be pleased on all sides? 

And there, my friend, you've struck the chord. The Founder's Program is arguably one of the divisive if not THE most divisive subject of Warframe. Assuming that the haters, as you put it, can't be pleased creates a rift by choice, and not by circumstance. Circumstance, more or less, is not concrete whereas a choice is. If we choose to ignore those who are unsatisfied, you create a loop that feeds on itself. A thirst CAN be quenched, perhaps not by the taste and experience of a top-shelf whiskey, but by the value of a few hundred Caprisun pouches. (Old reference. Don't ask).

 

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

We'll see how unrelated your ideas are to the Founder's Program and what harmonious ideas you have to offer. 

Be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot here. Let's not mince words. My ideas will be unrelated (but still referenced) to the Founder's Program, but be warned because no where have I said that the Founder's Program itself won't be talked about.

Edited June 18, 2018 by DomoSapien

[Arniox]

On 2018-06-16 at 7:03 PM, fatpig84 said:

Being a MR25 doesn't help either as it reinforces the image I am a wallet warrior but most people failed to realize I am high MR is because by time a new content patch or reinforcement pack appears, I would have nearly maxed everything else before it. So that keeps my MR at the top for awhile. 

I'm Mr25 but yet I've never been called a wallet warrior? Is the difference truly just the founder pack? 

That seems sad and cruel from the communities part. They have no right to say that about anyone. It's Judy extreme jealousy. 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think DE is being really populist in their decisions.

People don't want pay to win. Boom. Platinum can be traded.

People want beta items because they won't there to get them. Boom. Onslaught has them.

People want the exclusive prime accessories in prime accesses but didn't buy them when they were out. Boom. Rotational unvaults.

People want founder items because they aren't founders. Boom. Reskin excalibur prime and make him slightly different so it doesn't breach the digital contract.

People want to feel better functionally than founders and make themselves feel okay to miss out the founder items. Boom. Make Umbral mods to power creep them out.

It seems DE is just dictated by the majority crowd.

Which frankly from a business standpoint makes sense.

They are free to play and even made the cash currency free to trade.

As such, they are slave to the majority in terms of income.

While I don't know how many non-founders actually do pay any cash significant enough to support the game, even if we assume percentagewise they are half of the founders who continue spending money, nominally their numbers will still be more.

As a businessman, I really think DE is doing what any business will do which is basically to carry the balls of the highest potential buyers.

As a gamer, I think DE has now joined my list of "normal game developer" but slightly higher since they are really determined to make the game free to play.

It is really just how minorities tend to be treated.

People will give lip service and say how minorities should be treated well and equal but when you really ask them if they are willing to part with the advantage they have over the minority (in this case, development time to make Excal Prime look more like a prime and possibly on par with Umbra looks or making Excal Prime and other primes able to use forma to make umbra polarities to put the umbral mods and be functionally on par with Umbra) like say donating some money or doing volunteer work, they will start to justify why the advantage is fair and why the majority matters or contribute more.

Even now, after they get a better excal prime for free, they still don't want DE to treat excal prime like a prime and visually update him with the other old primes. Why? Because why renovate the houses of the minority? But somehow totally fine to visually update the old primes they own. Why? Because those are old houses owned by the majority as well.

When the next Umbra is out, and if the way it is done is the same, you will see tons of threads begging and whining on why Umbral mods make the primes they bought from trade or prime access just got completely power creeped into irrelevance and even then, I am sure even if DE decides to do something about it, they will tell DE why excal prime should be excluded from the solution.

They don't want equality.

They want superiority because the best way to forget something you don't and can't own is to make it something you don't want or need to own.

Edited June 19, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[LupisV0lk]

6 hours ago, Albalrogue said:

Yet said debacle has only worsened with some founders being very vocal about how Exacalibur prime is obsolete with Umbra being "an upgrade to prime" and sorts.

A sidegrade more than anything because without the Umbral mods there's nothing noteworthy aside from dat scarf.

To OP.

 

Still don't think anything really needs to be done. Aside from certain groups growing the hell up.

Edited June 19, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[Evanescent]

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think DE is being really populist in their decisions.

I'd call it listening to feedback, and a core pillar of strength concerning the lifespan of the game.

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

People don't want pay to win. Boom. Platinum can be traded.

Trading established a player driven economy that also sustains DE. People can trade currency for time at their discretion. While I cannot speak for others this has played a factor in retaining my interest in the game because an update with cosmetics is no longer a wasted update for a F2P player. 

However exclusive swag in the form of Prime Accessories exists for players wanting exclusivity.

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

People want beta items because they won't there to get them. Boom. Onslaught has them.

A correction made with the benefit of hindsight. DE never expected warframe to last as long as it has, and could not foresee the effects of locking actual gameplay items away.

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

People want founder items because they aren't founders. Boom. Reskin excalibur prime and make him slightly different so it doesn't breach the digital contract.

How about no? Umbra and Excalibur Prime are both reskins of Excalibur. Umbra=/=Excalibur prime purely on the basis that you do not get the mastery for Excalibur prime and he still remains very much exclusive to Founders. They are even visually distinct. All they share is their similarity to base excalibur and their stats. 

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

People want to feel better functionally than founders and make themselves feel okay to miss out the founder items. Boom. Make Umbral mods to power creep them out.

Let's examine the Umbral mods:

1)Not using all 3 makes all of them weaker

2)Have unique polarities that cannot be polarized back

3)Require high amount of resource investment to max out

Essentially this means you have a permanent vitality, steel fiber and intensify on your build, limiting build variety unless you forma the umbral polarities out, but then you even out the 'advantage' that umbra has. 

The only thing you would gain from the umbral set is Tau resist, which at this time remains insignificant.

Even without the tau resist, Excalibur on his own does and always could eat Sentients for breakfast, lunch and dinner. 

Even if the Umbral mods are stronger, they don't provide a margin you could not match or overcome with existing mod setups.

 

I don't know, perhaps I'm missing things but it seems like reaching for grievances to me.

Apologies if that was not your intent.

 

[----Legacy----]

2 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

People will give lip service and say how minorities should be treated well and equal

I don't know what you're talking about. The minority has had a preferential treatment during all of these years and now that DE has given something accessible to everyone (founders included) a vocal minority amongst a shrinking minority of the playerbase started victimizing itself because they aren't happy with DE giving a p7blic option to their exclusive gear without compensating them with something like an exclusive skin for NOT breaking a promise made 5 years ago in exchange for a single time investment.

[ChaellExE]

4 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think DE is being really populist in their decisions.

People don't want pay to win. Boom. Platinum can be traded.

People want beta items because they won't there to get them. Boom. Onslaught has them.

People want the exclusive prime accessories in prime accesses but didn't buy them when they were out. Boom. Rotational unvaults.

People want founder items because they aren't founders. Boom. Reskin excalibur prime and make him slightly different so it doesn't breach the digital contract.

People want to feel better functionally than founders and make themselves feel okay to miss out the founder items. Boom. Make Umbral mods to power creep them out.

It seems DE is just dictated by the majority crowd.

Which frankly from a business standpoint makes sense.

They are free to play and even made the cash currency free to trade.

As such, they are slave to the majority in terms of income.

While I don't know how many non-founders actually do pay any cash significant enough to support the game, even if we assume percentagewise they are half of the founders who continue spending money, nominally their numbers will still be more.

As a businessman, I really think DE is doing what any business will do which is basically to carry the balls of the highest potential buyers.

As a gamer, I think DE has now joined my list of "normal game developer" but slightly higher since they are really determined to make the game free to play.

It is really just how minorities tend to be treated.

People will give lip service and say how minorities should be treated well and equal but when you really ask them if they are willing to part with the advantage they have over the minority (in this case, development time to make Excal Prime look more like a prime and possibly on par with Umbra looks or making Excal Prime and other primes able to use forma to make umbra polarities to put the umbral mods and be functionally on par with Umbra) like say donating some money or doing volunteer work, they will start to justify why the advantage is fair and why the majority matters or contribute more.

Even now, after they get a better excal prime for free, they still don't want DE to treat excal prime like a prime and visually update him with the other old primes. Why? Because why renovate the houses of the minority? But somehow totally fine to visually update the old primes they own. Why? Because those are old houses owned by the majority as well.

When the next Umbra is out, and if the way it is done is the same, you will see tons of threads begging and whining on why Umbral mods make the primes they bought from trade or prime access just got completely power creeped into irrelevance and even then, I am sure even if DE decides to do something about it, they will tell DE why excal prime should be excluded from the solution.

They don't want equality.

They want superiority because the best way to forget something you don't and can't own is to make it something you don't want or need to own.

I have invested around 100 euros over the course of the game since the first nerf of those floating compagnons. (They were as powerful as warframe) The dedth cube was the first thing I have ever bought in this game. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by ChaellExE
Ignore my reply - I was going to make a point and then i hit submit by accident on my phone. - editing is pain on this.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

3 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Let's examine the Umbral mods:

1)Not using all 3 makes all of them weaker

2)Have unique polarities that cannot be polarized back

3)Require high amount of resource investment to max out

Essentially this means you have a permanent vitality, steel fiber and intensify on your build, limiting build variety unless you forma the umbral polarities out, but then you even out the 'advantage' that umbra has. 

The only thing you would gain from the umbral set is Tau resist, which at this time remains insignificant.

Even without the tau resist, Excalibur on his own does and always could eat Sentients for breakfast, lunch and dinner. 

Even if the Umbral mods are stronger, they don't provide a margin you could not match or overcome with existing mod setups.

 

I don't know, perhaps I'm missing things but it seems like reaching for grievances to me.

Apologies if that was not your intent.

 

I am not here to argue and fight with people but I need to point this out.

There are no mods out there (even the corrupted mods that can beat those Umbral mods) and not have any significant drawback in other stats.

Maybe in future, there will be but there's none now.

Also, unless you use only 1 of those mods, they are upgrades of the existing mods of same name and not by some small amount. By at least 25% and that amount is then multiplied onto the actual figure.

Just looking at armor and hp, excal and excal prime only get 700+ at most with vitality while Umbra is sitting at 1000+ with almost double the armor.

It is not minor at all.

As for the other stuff, we will agree to disagree.

[Altagraive]

One word?

Anticonsumer.

Exclusivity of any sort is anticonsumer by nature. In video games, in services, in warframe's items.

DE realized it themselves down the line. And no, re-releasing founders pack or some sort of equivalent for people to buy Excal prime and its weapons won't break any laws or contracts or whatever.

Sure people will start suing DE en masse, but they won't have any legal ground in court.

 

That being said, it still won't happen simply because of how much controversy it would cause. WF already had plenty of community dramas that spilled well out of forums/reddits/chans. They don't want another one.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Altagraive
grammar

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

1 hour ago, ChaellExE said:

I have invested around 100 euros over the course of the game since the first nerf of those floating compagnons. (They were as powerful as warframe) The dedth cube was the first thing I have ever bought in this game. 

I think that's awesome! It is good to support the developers if you like what they are doing via spending some cash on the game even if it is a F2P game so kudos for that👍👍👍

That said, I do hope you are not trying to undermine my opinions with expenditure (not saying you are) and not to purposely sound rude or to undermine your contribution (which once again, it's good👍) but on top of the 100usd I spent on the founders pack, I have been buying most of the Prime Accesses so far because my job don't afford me too much playtime.

As such, with Prime Accesses and platinum purchases being the primary source of platinum for me, I have personally spent 500 to 800usd on warframe alone. 

I am well aware there will be people spending way way more than that and thus it will be pointless for us to bring up how much we spent because we individually do not account for the expenditure of others.

That's said, it is not hard to believe non-founders as a whole can match or exceed founders as a whole in expenditure as I have mentioned in my earlier post simply because of the size of the groups.

[catastrophy]

This kind of discussion is now moot. Get your excal umbra for free and enjoy. Founders still have some cosmetics to show off. Problem is solved. If there ever was one.

[Evanescent]

1 hour ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I am not here to argue and fight with people but I need to point this out.

There are no mods out there (even the corrupted mods that can beat those Umbral mods) and not have any significant drawback in other stats.

Maybe in future, there will be but there's none now.

Also, unless you use only 1 of those mods, they are upgrades of the existing mods of same name and not by some small amount. By at least 25% and that amount is then multiplied onto the actual figure.

Just looking at armor and hp, excal and excal prime only get 700+ at most with vitality while Umbra is sitting at 1000+ with almost double the armor.

It is not minor at all.

As for the other stuff, we will agree to disagree.

While what you say is true, the trade off in having more limited modding options is substantial.

Let us also not ignore the fact that the negatives from Corrupted mods can be minimized to pose little to no problems at all, something proven by their sheer proliferation in current warframe builds.

Exalted umbra blade also comes with 2 polarities occupied, one by a weaker pressure point. On the other hand Exalted blade does not have this limitation and again, enjoys the usage of more mod slots and power.

So while I can concede Umbra can be tankier Excalibur and Excalibur prime can at the current time utilise greater flexibility and the power afforded by it.

 

However, given you have respected my opinion I must also do yours, and respectfully agree to disagree.  

[DomoSapien]

Thank you all for the continued input!

[CupcakesMoo]

7 hours ago, Altagraive said:

One word?

Anticonsumer.

Exclusivity of any sort is anticonsumer by nature. In video games, in services, in warframe's items.

DE realized it themselves down the line. And no, re-releasing founders pack or some sort of equivalent for people to buy Excal prime and its weapons won't break any laws or contracts or whatever.

Sure people will start suing DE en masse, but they won't have any legal ground in court.

 

That being said, it still won't happen simply because of how much controversy it would cause. WF already had plenty of community dramas that spilled well out of forums/reddits/chans. They don't want another one.

Have you *been* to court? 

[Dr_Wonderful]

10 hours ago, Altagraive said:

One word?

Anticonsumer.

Exclusivity of any sort is anticonsumer by nature. In video games, in services, in warframe's items.

DE realized it themselves down the line. And no, re-releasing founders pack or some sort of equivalent for people to buy Excal prime and its weapons won't break any laws or contracts or whatever.

Sure people will start suing DE en masse, but they won't have any legal ground in court.

 

That being said, it still won't happen simply because of how much controversy it would cause. WF already had plenty of community dramas that spilled well out of forums/reddits/chans. They don't want another one.

WELL SAID! the so called founders contract does not exist. The founders pack can be made available for the public but that requires A LOT OF PRESSURE from the community. I highly doubt people will sue over this that costs money and time

See the chapter 8 of the Warframe EULA.

8. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE GAME AND ALL INFORMATION, CONTENT AND SERVICES CONTAINED THEREON ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND

[LordChronos]

5 hours ago, Dr_Wonderful said:

WELL SAID! the so called founders contract does not exist. The founders pack can be made available for the public but that requires A LOT OF PRESSURE from the community. I highly doubt people will sue over this that costs money and time

See the chapter 8 of the Warframe EULA.

8. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE GAME AND ALL INFORMATION, CONTENT AND SERVICES CONTAINED THEREON ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND

Are you saying their TOS is higher than the laws of the land? I don’t think they’re up for the challenge.

[LordChronos]

5 hours ago, Dr_Wonderful said:

WELL SAID! the so called founders contract does not exist. The founders pack can be made available for the public but that requires A LOT OF PRESSURE from the community. I highly doubt people will sue over this that costs money and time

See the chapter 8 of the Warframe EULA.

8. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE GAME AND ALL INFORMATION, CONTENT AND SERVICES CONTAINED THEREON ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND

The contract does not exist, huh? What is a contract? What happens when there is a breach of contract? 

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con·tract

noun

ˈkäntrakt/

1. 1. 
   a written or spoken agreement, especially one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law.

    

    

   Remedies for a Breach of Contract

   When an individual or business breaches a contract, the other party to the agreement is entitled to relief (or a "remedy") under the law. The main remedies for a breach of contract are:

   Damages, Specific Performance, or Cancellation and Restitution

   Damages

   The payment of damages -- payment in one form or another -- is the most common remedy for a breach of contract. There are many kinds of damages, including the following:

   Compensatory damages aim to put the non-breaching party in the position that they had been if the breach had not occurred.

   https://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-contracts-forms/breach-of-contract-and-lawsuits.html

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   If DE regrets how they handled Founder’s Program exclusivity then it’s no different than saying they regret Warframe survived its early days.

   You think they would have made as much funds or more if they had stated that the Founder’s Program will return at a later time for free or not for free? I think NOT. They would’ve made less money. People would’ve been like, “250 dollars for items I could just wait for and get later for free by farming in-game? I’ll pass!”

   Exclusivity was a part of the terms of sale and that was a big part that attracted the sales that got them where they are today. If they regret it, they are welcome to challenge the Founders. I’ll just sit back and watch. I don’t care what happens but people don’t know contracts, business and law and they say anything they want.

   The Founder’s Program is a contract. Period.

[----Legacy----]

36 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

Are you saying their TOS is higher than the laws of the land? I don’t think they’re up for the challenge.

We all have agreed to the ToS in order to play the game, it's an actual contract we sign by clicking "accept" before downloading warframe and to which we keep agreeing as long as we keep playing it. So anyone trying to sue DE would most likely be countered simply by DE's lawyers reading the ToS and saying "the player accepted this"

22 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

The contract does not exist, huh?

It's weird that many founders talk about that contract yet refuse to show actual proof of its existence (and even weirder since DE calls said contract "a promise" instead)

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

We all have agreed to the ToS in order to play the game, it's an actual contract we sign by clicking "accept" before downloading warframe and to which we keep agreeing as long as we keep playing it. So anyone trying to sue DE would most likely be countered simply by DE's lawyers reading the ToS and saying "the player accepted this"

It's weird that many founders talk about that contract yet refuse to show actual proof of its existence (and even weirder since DE calls said contract "a promise" instead)

A contract isn't always a piece of paper with us printing it out and signing in ink with a witness.

I suggesting reading about digital contracts.

If it is not clear, the moment DE advertised they are selling an exclusive item never to be released again and founders paid money based on this information willingly, both sides have formed a contract.

You can't discount everything just because of the EULA because if that is the case, anyone can just start a new game, sells tons of items for tons of money in the first few days then remove all those items or change them to useless items the next day and face zero legal repuccussions.

It is no different from DE selling you 500 platinum today then the next day change it to 500 credits and tell you "too bad because EULA means I can do whatever I want".

No court of law will ever allow such kind of mis-selling to go unpunished just because of EULA.

Edited June 20, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO