COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.

[DomoSapien]

30 minutes ago, toxicpanda said:

I know I am not a founder and all, but I still want to share my opinion, I hope I an't breaking any rules. Anyways, on to the matter at hand. I started playing at around 2013 or so, I believe they were still doing the founders program. It looked, at the time, enticing but I admittedly refused to participate in it. Mainly cause the venture it self was risky, and well not worth it. The game was in an uncertain state, I don't think anyone at the time expected the game to succeed, nor gain such traction over the years.

Personally, I was just as surprised seeing the game explode in popularity, after coming back to it around 2015. Not only had the game exploded in popularity, but it managed to form a solid community and a strong following. Again, I need to emphasize this, no one expected this at all. I myself wrote this game off, and expected it to fail in its shortcomings. Yet here we are, millions play the game, and possibly thousands are active each day. That in of itself is an accomplishment.

The game has indeed evolved over the years. Regardless if said evolvement led to questionable design choices, is irrelevant.

Anyways I may have side tracked, forgive me. Regarding the issue at hand, I never really understood the stigma towards founders. To be frank with you all, I see them mostly as people who made a terrible financial decision that could have backfired tremendously. However, it didn't, instead they became a part of the game's history. By helping "kickstarting" it and at least pushing it towards the current success it came upon. Either by spreading the game by word of mouth, or by indirectly helping in the marketing for the game. Regardless, Whether it was a venture worth recognizing, is up to such individuals who embarked on it. 

Moving on, regarding the exclusive stuff, I don't care. Exclusivity sells, an't nothing wrong with that. I will admit at least, that DE shot the bull, when they made the exclusivity life time. However, if the issue lies in that, non-founders got a much better toy, aka umbra. Then founders are acting a bit spoiled, and well, entitled.

All opinions from non-founders welcomed as well. I need opinions from both sides. Thanks for your input.

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, DomoSapien said:

All opinions from non-founders welcomed as well. I need opinions from both sides. Thanks for your input.

I do not understand the nature of your intentions. Whether it is to deliver a balanced perspective on the matter, or create an antagonistic narrative towards non-backers. Considering that you yourself are a founder. Nonetheless, you have peaked my interest; I am personally looking forward to your concluding post on the matter.

Edited June 16, 2018 by toxicpanda

[catastrophy]

It helped kick Warframe to what it is now. But since I guess this is about the Excal - purely cosmetic equipment might have been the better idea. You can always use these and they won't be affected by any power creep. I don't really play much Excal prime, but I sure do use my insignia thing.

[The_Lunatic_]

1. Overall, my opinion on the Founder's program has been pretty mixed. I think at the time the program came about, DE offered a lot. They told us we'd be involved in the game, and we'd have exclusive things. And gradually over time, they've ignored those parts, they've stopped caring about the exclusive forum access we have and the shinies we've got have been mostly ignored and left to grow fairly out of date in the Warframe world, certainly things change and that's expected, but often it feels there's a degree of resentment from DE that such things even exist in the first place. The constant assault by the rest of the community doesn't particularly help, and DE does very little to actually address this.

With the recent addition of Umbra, I can't help but feel DE is doing everything in their power to weasel out of the Founder exclusivity. It feels very dishonest, and whilst I understand that having content locked behind a wall is unfavourable to some, it's not like there isn't other examples, and at the end of the day it represents a very small minority of content. I imagine a lot of Founders wouldn't mind trading this exclusivity on content for a bigger exclusivity on cosmetics, however, we're never asked and instead we just see our exclusivity chipped away at, constantly left to wonder as to what will be next.

Making Umbra more powerful than Prime and then not even allowing the use of Prime cosmetics is kinda insulting, if we're being honest. It's one thing to release something better than what was exclusive, it's quite another to then make it so you can't even have the consolation prize of using it as a skin. I imagine a number of Founders, having known Umbra was coming when they bought Excal Prime likely would have reconsidered.

2. A word summary: Disappointing.

Edited June 16, 2018 by The_Lunatic_

[(PSN)robotwars7]

looks like a convoluted way of asking for Excalibur prime back to me. Howl all you want, it won't bring him back.

the founders program doesn't need to come back, or be reincarnated in any way. a bunch of people took a gamble and invested in a game they didn't know or understand, so they got special stuff. that's it. people wanting the stuff back just blows everything out of proportion. people need to accept that it's NOT happening. ever.

[Midarc]

I’m not a founder, but I wish they had something a little more substantial than Excalibur prime.

A cosmetic item or effect perhaps.

Transferable between frames and useful to them after prime Excalibur is long relegated to the back of the frame shelf.

After all, we know the real endgame is fashion frame.

Now, of course that’s just another thing people will wish they had too, so what if there was a solution?

Introduce a cosmetic, loyalty themed and named, which is given to the founders.

One year later it is added to the store for those who wish to own it.

A new cosmetic is provided for the founders at this time.

A Rolling period of exclusivity and recognition for their faith in, and support of, Warframe which remains accessible to the regular players who show similar loyalty and stick around.

 

[Midas]

As a founder, I believed in this game success and chipped a good 50 for the Excal, I also use him in questing etc...

I tend to feel the program is well rewarding because you and I helped make the game viable and a cult classic, and I guess you can teach tenno how to theory craft haha, a bit off topic but my true opinions are the fact I supported this game and loved the lore. 5 years ago I was 16 at the time so it was a big investment in a game. I could have bought a whole new game but warframe stole my heart because it was beyond dynamic at the time. The ads were literally “now you can play as ninjas... in space!”.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Vladimir

[NightmareT12]

I wrote this in another thread but I guess I can write it here, regarding Founders, Primes and anything related:

Quote

I want to share my 2 cents as well... But on the opposite side.

DE has always said that if they had known things would have turned out the way they did, they'd have never released the Founder gear they did give out, but at the time it's all they could offer (remember these were basically skins).

As the years have gone by, people wanted an Excalibur Prime. Primes became direct upgrades slowly starting with Rhino, and eventually became what they are now. When the time came everyone got a nifty upgrade... Except Excalibur Prime, who only got +25 armor, because it would be unfair to keep somethging so good in the hands of just a few (P2W).

With Umbra being released, Excalibur Prime has been equaled: We now have 300 armor and with Primed Flow an Energy Pool of 600+. The upgrade is finally real, and other people get to use a different version of Excalibur that is a direct upgrade that they could not attain before.

I've always been up to rerelease this gear so we could finally talk about Visual updates, Stats updates and burying this chapter and leaving this behind. And now the day is here.

Ultimately we still keep an extra frame and an edge in the MR progression system, that works like all other Primes do.

As for if Umbra is better because of Radial Howl and its passive + mods, this is an issue that concerns not only Excalibur but all Primes, and DE has to figure out still.

So yes, I'm pretty happy with this, we ended up winning more than we would have by not having Umbra and I'm just hoping to see the potential for future systems with Primes as a whole and leave the Founder gear debacle behind finally.

To give you a direct answer that is not a quote:

I have been playing this game for 5 years now. I got my Founder pack rather later mainly because I had no money and I didn't know earlier of the game. When I got here I quickly got attached to this game and within a month I decided to make the jump to the only tier I could afford at the time. I would have gone Grand Master if I could have. The game deserved it, and it deserves it currently even more.

The chosen Founder items were a mistake. I think that. DE thinks that, and Steve and Sheldon have adressed this stating that if they had known things went down the road the way they have, they'd probably have done something else. However, it is also true that at the time this is all they had.

The way the game has gone means DE has locked behind a never returning paywall 3 items that should have never been there in the first place: Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime and Skana Prime. These weapons should be a part of the non-rotating weapons in relics by logic (Braton, Orthos, etc). However DE chose to make these Founder Program and stated they'd never come back.

For the longest time DE has avoided giving significant advantage to these items. In fact Excalibur used to have only a 25 armor difference when DE decided to finally buff the rest of old Primes. Until Umbra's release, which gives him base 300 armor (FINALLY) and a larger energy pool.

If it was up to me I'd change the exclusivity of the Founder items for that of a very cool looking Prime cosmetic set. That means Armor Set+Sugatra+Syandana+Sigil+Operator suit... Etc. Cosmetics people can buy a new of and that do not affect gameplay. I hate that the starter gear Prime items can't come back, and I hate that we can't have Aklato and Dual Skana Primes because otherwise it's the same. At the samne time, I am VERY happy that Umbra released and it's allowed Excalibur Prime to be something good finally. Maybe we could also start talking about a small visual update, I don't know.

Maybe they could make the program return, and change the last tier so instead of Design Council access it gave something else -- and of course give current Grand Masters that something else for free as well. But I do not see that happening.

So in short:

• I wish it had been different, purely cosmetics offerings, but fully understand Warframe was barebones at the time and those items were back then basically cosmetics
• I'd like to see the items back. Could be part of a purchase for the same values, but rather have them in game out of rotation in exchange of a whole set of cosmetics we could help design
• I am fine about Umbra and I am happy it got here so Excalibur Prime got an upgrade
• If the purpose of the thread is ultimately state that Excalibur Prime is not so special anymore, we have only one downside which is that extra Umbra polarity. That is easily solved this by having a new item (or even using Exilus Adapter) that gives any Prime/future Umbra that polarity. The rest is all good things and I am REALLY happy we got him.
• Exclusive, never returning items that affect gameplay damage the game in the long run. That is my ultimate judgement and my guidance towards this and any game I play.

I hope your post is constructive and not entitlement in the end OP. I shall see where you end up.

Edited June 16, 2018 by NightmareT12

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm not even entirely sure what the Founders Program entails beyond availability of some exclusive gear. I guess they have the ear of the developers more than the rest of us do, too? I also don't have much contact that I know of with any founders besides the occasional conversation here on these forums (case in point, I saw Excal Prime* for the first time in-game only a couple months ago, and I've been playing for years). 

That said, I respect the Founders for their willingness to throw money in when things looked bleak; I wouldn't have taken that bet myself (and I would have been wrong, but I still wouldn't have taken it) and I appreciate that it's given me a game that's given me thousands of hours of enjoyment.

I also respect (and like) that the exclusivity of the items is ironclad, and I'm happy the founders can continue to have those items exclusively. I wasn't there and wouldn't have been willing to pay if I had been, so it makes perfect sense that I don't get the rewards. It's how life works. Besides, it's not like not having those things is a huge deprivation for non-Founders, and it's a rather nice "thanks" to the people who parted with a chunk of hard-earned to make the game happen at all. 

Basically, I have no problems with the Founders program, with the recognition that the Founders get, or the stuff they can play with. It was a good idea that had a good outcome.(Edit: I see some founders have a different opinion, and they would know more; my view of it is simply as a relatively new non-founder looking in from the outside). 

One word summation: Reasonable.

(I changed my one-word, because "approval" was stronger than my actual feelings, which were "it's a perfectly reasonable setup and okay with me")

 

* At least, the first Excal Prime I could identify as such, since it was in the default Prime skin. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[NightmareT12]

5 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Basically, I have no problems with the Founders program, with the recognition that the Founders get, or the stuff they can play with. It was a good idea that had a good outcome

Quoting you this part, not because I want to say you're wrong or something, but rather because I want to clarify something here: It's not that it was a good idea, it was a desperate and one of the few very possible moves they could make. Which has been, as I stated earlier, recognized by Steve and Sheldon (this is touched upon in the NoClip documentary, besides the various Devstreams that's been adressed).

From this point forward not much more to add 😛

Edited June 16, 2018 by NightmareT12

[Hypernaut1]

Are founders really arguing that they deserve to get MORE exclusives now because Umbra is an upgrade to a years old frame?

The founders ship has sailed. You got you exclusives at the time and that's it. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Echo]

1 hour ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

1. Overall, my opinion on the Founder's program has been pretty mixed. I think at the time the program came about, DE offered a lot. They told us we'd be involved in the game, and we'd have exclusive things. And gradually over time, they've ignored those parts, they've stopped caring about the exclusive forum access we have and the shinies we've got have been mostly ignored and left to grow fairly out of date in the Warframe world, certainly things change and that's expected, but often it feels there's a degree of resentment from DE that such things even exist in the first place. The constant assault by the rest of the community doesn't particularly help, and DE does very little to actually address this.

With the recent addition of Umbra, I can't help but feel DE is doing everything in their power to weasel out of the Founder exclusivity. It feels very dishonest, and whilst I understand that having content locked behind a wall is unfavourable to some, it's not like there isn't other examples, and at the end of the day it represents a very small minority of content. I imagine a lot of Founders wouldn't mind trading this exclusivity on content for a bigger exclusivity on cosmetics, however, we're never asked and instead we just see our exclusivity chipped away at, constantly left to wonder as to what will be next.

Making Umbra more powerful than Prime and then not even allowing the use of Prime cosmetics is kinda insulting, if we're being honest. It's one thing to release something better than what was exclusive, it's quite another to then make it so you can't even have the consolation prize of using it as a skin. I imagine a number of Founders, having known Umbra was coming when they bought Excal Prime likely would have reconsidered.

2. A word summary: Disappointing.

I wanted to quote this because of how well it gathers my own personal thoughts on the matter. Especially when it's rarely discussed by DE like in the documentary of how close they were to literally shutting their doors and sending Warframe into the nether with all other game ideas that have fallen through in the past. Then the Founders package came along, and they were amazed that even a single person decided to put money into a game that was literally about to fail and or fall through.

Yet, nowadays? I feel like there's quite a decent sized section of  the community that straight up HATES us. Not only that, but DE wont so much as mention it anymore. I feel that resentment from other players around me and maybe even a little from DE themselves. Hell, I was in a Discord the other day playing with some players who came over from PS4 to play on PC. We played for a bit until one of them saw I was a founder and you could just hear it in their voice when they were like, "Oh. you're a Founder." It sucks. Because I feel like my decision to help DE in the past is coming back to kinda haunt me.

Heck, a long time back I wore my brand new Nova Prime I got from the Prime Access. I was so happy to of received it (It was a gift for my birthday from my mother, actually) and was just glad to be using it while I was selling other stuff for Ducats in the relays. Not even 5 minutes in, I was called out in the chat by someone who was pissed off at me for "showing off" that I had money, "as if the Founder Title on your profile wasn't enough." 

In the end, I am starting to feel almost...resented? I doubt there have been many others with random stupid experiences like mine, but at the same time, I am sure I am not the only one. it's part of the reason why I actually play Solo. While I do get some really awesome and kind people who seem to love hearing about my past experiences with the game and I am ALWAYS open for helping out newer players, I can't help but feel these nastier encounters tend to remind me of just how many people out there just want to be horrible.

Now with Umbra being released, I can't help but also feel that there is now more toxicity from the community towards Founders, because of what is quoted above. When the community seems to be up in arms against the Founders, and DE is turning a blind eye towards us, I kinda feel like in the end we are alone in the stuff we have to deal with, and no matter how much we try to explain ourselves and our feelings, we will always be looked down upon for, what, having feelings and things we were given because we actually helped get the game to where it is? AND still continue to do so till this day?

 

TL;DR: I feel the community as a whole pretty much hates us and DE doesn't know what to do with it all. That, and I don't care that Umbra is a thing. I would like to put my Excal Prime helmet on his shiny body though. Kek.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Vitrescence
Spelling and TL;DR.

[NightmareT12]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Are founders really arguing that they deserve to get MORE exclusives now because Umbra is an upgrade to a years old frame?

Some people are, yes. Meanwhile I'd restrict the new polarity to Prime only frames of any kind, allow Prime to equip Umbra skin and viceversa, call it a day and keep enjoying my new cool Warframe.

1 minute ago, Vitrescence said:

-snip-

I want to make a note here, but I think you indirectly stated something: Jerks will be jerks, no matter what. If it's an exclusive, it will be because it's exclusive, if it's because the exclusive stops being exclusive, it will be because of that. If it's because a buff it will be because of it. I myself have been called an idiot for purchasing a Prime Access as well (even though it's that money which allows him to play).

Some people, in life in general, would rather insult and blame their frustration on others instead of getting better and try to break out for a better outcome.

Or how Pearl puts it:

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by NightmareT12

[Echo]

9 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

-Snip-

 

I lost my s***t at the end, "It's sad, and funny!"

My focus was, however, that I feel like there is quite a bit of resentment towards Founders in general. I was just using some encounters as an example because it wasn't about buying an Access, it was the fact they had to also bring up that I was a Founder to basically be a giant angry person in chat. It's one thing to call someone dumb for buying an access pack, but another to also bring in that they were a Founder. Seems sorta dumb, but in the end, just an example.

Edit: In the end, anyone spending money on Pixels could be considered dumb. But I spend my money in whatever way makes me happy. Hence why DE gets most of it when I can afford to do so. LOL.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Vitrescence

[Lockheed]

6 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I feel Founders being the minority is constantly being berated and looked upon as elitist scum.

I am aware there are some who really are elitist scum who will say things like "I have this and you don't have so I am superior" but not all of us are like that.

I am sick of people asking for Founders items when they were sold and marketed as exclusives.

People like to call Founders entitled or elitist for wanting what we paid for to remain exclusive, but yet fail to see how entitled they are acting by demanding for what people paid money for and was sold to them as exclusive.

Basically, in my opinion,

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Founders bought a golden apple from DE and DE promised and said this golden apple will be exclusive to us forever.

People who owns an apple wants the golden apple and constantly berates Founders for owning one then demands DE to give them a golden apple.

DE caves in and make a platinum apple which is basically an upgraded platinum-coated golden apple and gives it to everyone.

Founders are generally ok that non-Founders get a metallic apple that is equivalent to the golden apple since the golden apple also got a slight boost.

On closer inspection, Founders noticed that the platinum apple is 50% bigger in size.

Founders try to ask for the golden apple and platinum apple to be equal and non-Founders berate them further.

That's my viewpoint on the Umbral Mods.

Basically, majority makes demands. DE caves in.

Nevermind that people can get the same item with better looks for free but they had to straight up make it better with the Umbral mods.

Now, I await the calls of "salty selfish founder" from the community.

 

For 5 years, Founders get called names and berated over 25 armor and then they do this:

Umbral Fiber (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+192.5% Armor

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Vitality (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+770% Health

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Intensify (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+66% Ability Strength

+11% Tau Resist

Steel Fiber (14 capacity cost):

+110% Armor

Vitality (12 capacity cost):

+440% Health

Intensify (11 capacity cost):

+30% Ability Strength

Transient Fortitude (16 capacity cost):

+55% Ability Strength

-27.5% Ability Duration

  Hide contents

Straight up power creep just to satisfy the masses.

It's not even equality anymore.

This is a vendor who sells us exclusive items for money when they were desperate, then when they are in good condition, releases the same item via giving it another look to go around the legal issues, but decides to make it even better and gives it to everyone for free.

They wanna release the same item and give it another look? That's fine.

They wanna release the same item and give it another look AND makes it so much better that we look like idiots for even buying and using the original item? I am disappointed.

I was hoping for equality between Founders and Non-Founders in this update.

I had hope Excalibur Prime gets a buff that makes him in line with other Primes, while Non-Founders can get the same as us but just another look. A much better look if I might add.

That may have made Excalibur Prime a skin but that's fine with me.

However, I wasn't expecting they make him redundant via power creep.

Even worse, they are gonna make more Umbras and do the same for other Primes.

Great.

I have really lost a lot of respect for DE after this update.

Because I always thought they were not in it solely for money but I am not so sure now.

It seems popularity and money from the majority is always more important.

As a businessman, I understand and respect that.

As a gamer and fan, I am disappointed beyond measure.

14 minutes ago, Vitrescence said:

I wanted to quote this because of how well it gathers my own personal thoughts on the matter. Especially when it's rarely discussed by DE like in the documentary of how close they were to literally shutting their doors and sending Warframe into the nether with all other game ideas that have fallen through in the past. Then the Founders package came along, and they were amazed that even a single person decided to put money into a game that was literally about to fail and or fall through.

Yet, nowadays? I feel like there's quite a decent sized section of  the community that straight up HATES us. Not only that, but DE wont so much as mention it anymore. I feel that resentment from other players around me and maybe even a little from DE themselves. Hell, I was in a Discord the other day playing with some players who came over from PS4 to play on PC. We played for a bit until one of them saw I was a founder and you could just hear it in their voice when they were like, "Oh. you're a Founder." It sucks. Because I feel like my decision to help DE in the past is coming back to kinda haunt me.

Heck, a long time back I wore my brand new Nova Prime I got from the Prime Access. I was so happy to of received it (It was a gift for my birthday from my mother, actually) and was just glad to be using it while I was selling other stuff for Ducats in the relays. Not even 5 minutes in, I was called out in the chat by someone who was pissed off at me for "showing off" that I had money, "as if the Founder Title on your profile wasn't enough." 

In the end, I am starting to feel almost...resented? I doubt there have been many others with random stupid experiences like mine, but at the same time, I am sure I am not the only one. it's part of the reason why I actually play Solo. While I do get some really awesome and kind people who seem to love hearing about my past experiences with the game and I am ALWAYS open for helping out newer players, I can't help but feel these nastier encounters tend to remind me of just how many people out there just want to be horrible.

Now with Umbra being released, I can't help but also feel that there is now more toxicity from the community towards Founders, because of what is quoted above. When the community seems to be up in arms against the Founders, and DE is turning a blind eye towards us, I kinda feel like in the end we are alone in the stuff we have to deal with, and no matter how much we try to explain ourselves and our feelings, we will always be looked down upon for, what, having feelings and things we were given because we actually helped get the game to where it is? AND still continue to do so till this day?

 

TL;DR: I feel the community as a whole pretty much hates us and DE doesn't know what to do with it all. That, and I don't care that Umbra is a thing. I would like to put my Excal Prime helmet on his shiny body though. Kek.

 

Pretty much everything said in these quotes is a relatively good summary of how I feel.

It's like going to an exclusive event, getting something for going (such as PAX, for instance, and getting a skin for doing so, which you cannot get anywhere else) and then having other people whine about not having access to that content, content that you paid for from your own income.

At the time, Excalibur Prime was an expensive package that did a grand total of nothing at all for you. It didn't give stat boosts (at the time, DE said that Primes wouldn't be "upgrades" though they later changed that with Rhino prime and everything subsequently, but also back-worked every prime except Excalibur Prime, who only got a 25 base armour difference as a token change. It was nothing more than a Cosmetic pack, and worked pretty much the same way. More importantly though, it's something that we as founders knew was a risk. It was a company that was dying, and Warframe was DE's last shot. If it failed, that could have been up to 200 dollars down the drain.

Once the Founders Package was shut down after the game exited beta, people could no longer get it. For a while that was okay. But so many people now are clamoring for DE to break a permanent contract that they have with every Founder who bought Excalibur prime, and weapons, because they can't get it themselves. There was anger for a long while, and yes, people viewed owners of Excal Prime as "elitist scum", simply because we as players had been here longer, and supported a game that would otherwise not exist, were it not for the contribution of every founder who bought the pack.

Without the Founder's Pack, DE and Warframe as a game, and as a community, would not exist.

And it's sad that people are so salty about something that happened five years ago. They don't even deserve to be salty about it either. They didn't suffer through bad rendition after bad rendition of UI changes. They didn't suffer through super limited map designs or rubbish AI. They didn't suffer through game-breaking bug after game-breaking bug that would sometimes not get fixed for weeks or months because DE was such a small team then. They didn't suffer through a complete lack of content, they didn't suffer through what little lore we had, constantly changing, over and over and over again. There's so much that we, as founders, went through while this game was in its early teething phase, issues the game simply doesn't have now.

The Founder's Package wasn't just "I'm getting this nice thing", it was DE's way of saying "Thank you for supporting us. We won't let you down." It was a lifeline for DE, one that they grasped with everything they had.

 

As for Umbra... I have little issue with Excal Umbra, even though he's actually a better warframe - I fully believe that we're going to end up with some way to implement the Umbra Polarities whenever we see the Tau system come out, given the things that happened in the quest, and the game's lore.

Where I take issue is the fact that selfish, ignorant, salty people still clamor for Excal Prime to be released, even after Umbra has come out. Umbra is still a prime in all but name, right down to his Void Passive giving energy from touching or getting close to a death orb in the void. Arguably, his slightly different abilities and mod changes actually make him better than Excalibur prime.

Where I take issue, is the fact that Umbra warframes will effectively make Prime Warframes, something that people put hours of effort into theory crafting, formaing, spending money for prime access etc, effectively pointless warframes, because DE said Umbra warframes would be a thing outside of Excal Umbra himself - which means that the Prime warframes that every player spends inordinate amounts of time collecting, leveling and upgrading, essentially a waste of space. Umbra's mods aren't something you can just use on any warframe - they're so heavy on the mod slots, you practically can't use them on anything but an Umbra, and that makes him (and eventually, his other Umbra warframes) much, much better than people want to give credit for.

Ultimately, I think DE actually regrets even mentioning Umbra coming to the global release, because there were so few mentions of it in dev-streams and such reticence to talk about it.

I dunno. From my point of view, I think Excal Umbra was poorly handled, and that so many players are just salty because they're unable to get something that was an exclusive item - something that wasn't even intended (at the time) to be an upgrade.

 

If I were to describe the Founder's Package in one word?

Lifeline.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Lockheed

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Vitrescence said:

I lost my s***t at the end, "It's sad, and funny!"

My focus was, however, that I feel like there is quite a bit of resentment towards Founders in general. I was just using some encounters as an example because it wasn't about buying an Access, it was the fact they had to also bring up that I was a Founder to basically be a giant angry person in chat. it's one thing to call someone dumb for buying an access pack, but another to also bring in that they were a Founder. Seems sorta dumb, but in the end, just an example.

I know and indeed it's sadly totally a thing, and it's also true DE tries to be so fair it's a double edged sword: What little times they do touch the matter is good and ask us, but usually don't because they avoid it and you feel ignored.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

looks like a convoluted way of asking for Excalibur prime back to me. Howl all you want, it won't bring him back.

the founders program doesn't need to come back, or be reincarnated in any way. a bunch of people took a gamble and invested in a game they didn't know or understand, so they got special stuff. that's it. people wanting the stuff back just blows everything out of proportion. people need to accept that it's NOT happening. ever.

... said the console player to the Founder.

[DomoSapien]

Hey, all! OP here. I'm currently at work so I apologize if this update is short.

 

I wanted to stop by to say that I'm really happy with where this thread is going. I feel bad for having to crack down on some budding discussions, but I hope that in the end, it'll all be for the best. My goal for this thread is to ultimately create as large and diverse of a repository of opinions as possible; the ultimate go-to.

Intially, I thought this post's timing was really bad considering that Umbra was just released and I felt that things might've gotten heated in the thread and ultimately would've gotten de-railed, but I'm pleasantly surprised at just how cooperative everyone is being.

It's truly been an experience to watch all these different view points, arguably more diverse than any other thread I've seen, come into one collection. I stated earlier in a different post that this thread alone has garnered some viewpoints I've never even CONSIDERED.

In the mean time, I'd like to ask you all a favor: Please encourage your friends, your clan mates, even your Kavat's and Kubrows to chime in. The most opinions I have, the better of a post I can make.

While I know my pending write-up has ultimately been in the shade, I feel that this community calling has been alleviating a lot of the stress in the forums. And as that stress levels even further, I may reveal the outline of the thread. I initially planned to keep it secret and safe until it was finished, but watching how well spoken everyone is being with their opinion and how cordial people are being, because I KNOW some of you want to make responses and I do too, it's made me giddy and it's almost difficult to contain my excitement for the post.

Realistically, I'm probably more excited than I should be for just writing something, but watching something come together in front of your eyes is a pretty incredible experience, similar to The Second Dream.

As a final note, and as a reminder, not everyone's opinion will be be quoted but EVERY opinion WILL be read and will provide critical detail into how the post eventually forms.

While I had my initial core ideas for the post, watching this thread unravel has completely changed the attitude, flow, and tone that the post will carry and it's provided me an even clearer picture of what it will be. As more and more supply their opinion, the picture will only become sharper.

With how much better this is going than I expected, I severely hope I don't disappoint with the write-up. I'm incredibly excited to bring it to you, but for now, the ideas are still being fleshed out and those ideas will shift and change based purely on your input and opinions.

As sort of a passive forum-writer who lurks 99% of the time but makes MASSIVE posts the other 1% of the time, you all are giving me great confidence to make it bigger and better and I can only hope that I deliver.

All of that said, with just how many viewpoints are being supplied, it may take longer than expected to release because with every new opinion that comes to fruition, it adds another layer of complexity to ultimately be satisfying for everyone.

Thank you all for your time. It's been a pleasure to read. Keep them coming!

-OP

[bhanel]

I don't feel I've played long enough to contribute much to the conversation that hasn't already been said, but from what I've gathered, Founders backed the game when it was super early and as a reward got exclusive, but not advantage giving content. I don't have a problem with that at all. Having exclusive stuff is fine, so long as it doesn't break the game. Ideally for me, I'd like access to perhaps lesser versions of that content or different polarity. But I'm not going to get upset if that never happens. The game is still fun.

[LSG501]

Honestly the only issue I have with the founders program is the fact that non founders can't get the prime versions of excalibur, skana and lato. 

Now it's not so much about having them in my collection it's about the lack of xp that non founders can't get.  DE have on numerous occasions said they have a contract in place that prevents it from being released again and we as players need to respect that there is a contract in place. 

What I would like to see is that the XP from the founder exclusive items is removed so that all players are 'equal' when it comes to standing etc, however this doesn't help those who want to collect everything. 

 

[Evanescent]

I feel like this is leading to Umbra salt.

The contribution founders have had has been acknowledged and rewarded by DE themselves. What we or any other stranger on the internet has to say about that does not make a difference. What is this topic hoping to accomplish?

[Cattlefish]

1/ My opinion on Warframe's founder pack is kind of messy (just like the founder's pack it self).

Firstly, I think that the founder's pack was pretty essential for Warframe's development as it did help kick start it. It's a lot like betting on horses. Out of all the games you could have thrown your money at, you threw at the S#&$ty game that Warframe used to be. It turns out that that Horse won but it could have easily gone the other direction. Thus founders do deservehaving the founder exclusive gear.

The problem I do have is the decision of make said gear a warframe and weapons. If I were a founder, I would have preferred to have the shiniest of cosmetics so that I can use what ever waframe and weapons I wanted whilst still have the blinggiest bling in the game. But Warframe was a game on life support back then and decisions had to be made. It just turned out to be a bad one.

The reason I want excalibur, skana and lato prime isn't because they're founder's gear but because they are primes and primes have become a pretty big deal over the years becoming a must have essentially. The void of not having has been filled with umbra even though he isn't a prime (although pretty close).

I actually thought of a way for founders to show off their status as founders whilst still using the gear they want to use. Creating an armour set and syandana (or any other cosmetic that can be use on pretty much everything) that reflects the rank of founder you are. Disciples having pretty basic but unique ones, hunters having ones with slightly more bling all the way up to grand masters who would have ones that'll melt anyone's eyes which awe. In fact if DE decided to make those for the founders I couldn't be more happy. You should have the privilege of showing you're status and not limiting yourselves to a frame and weapons that you might not prefer using.

(EDIT : The problem with this is that if founders get the new hypothetical gear, then excalibur p, lato p and skana p wil have to be released to the general public.)

As the founder's pack is right now, I really don't mind it. Don't have the three inaccessible primes and I don't mind that much. I just find it a shame that it has pretty much divided the Warframe community so much with two sides that can be as despicable as the other.

2/ Messy

Edited June 16, 2018 by Albalrogue

[DomoSapien]

3 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

I feel like this is leading to Umbra salt.

The contribution founders have had has been acknowledged and rewarded by DE themselves. What we or any other stranger on the internet has to say about that does not make a difference. What is this topic hoping to accomplish?

Someone else said the same thing. Just to be clear, for me, this has nothing to do with Umbra. This was being written about a good week before Umbra's release and I had completely forgotten about the release, otherwise.

Edited June 16, 2018 by DomoSapien

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

 It worked out but was the worst thing DE ever could of done

. As you can see it only brings out the worst in people and is the biggest cancer usually on this forum.

I wish DE and the Founders could come to some sort of agreement just so this CANCER can go away.

At times its funny to watch the fighting but mostly its a sad story to see adults acting like toddlers with a load of S#&$e in their diapers.

 I don't care about the weapons or the MR tied to them.

I play the game the way I want with what I want and have been doing so for over 3 years now without a problem.

 

2.Disappointed (in both sides for not being able to figure out how to make this all go away so DE and its community can try and move forward)

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE

[Streaky_Haddock]

I respect founders. They invested heavily into a game with an uncertain future. Their benefits don't affect me now I have excalibur umbra, the prisma skana and lato vandal. I am jealous of their fancy lisets, but I'm not going to throw a fit and demand I get one.