Damage Scaling (Keep getting one shot in high levels)

[Liew5439]

Problem:

Every time when I go for a solo high level mission (lv90+) such as sortie/ESO, I am limited to only bringing some frames from my arsenal, if I bring something not tanky, I will get one shot very easily.

Even if I bring my Saryn Prime (which has 600+ armor) on ESO, I still can get one shotted by a corrupted crewman (which has a shotgun) if I get too close to one of them.

 

At the current state, enemies damage will scale as the mission goes on.

Solution:

Enemies should have a limit on how much damage they can deal once they've reach a certain level. For example, the maximum damage that a lancer can deal at level90 is 250 per shot, after the lancer reaches level120, the damage is still 250. 

So basically, the damage stops scaling once the enemies reached a certain level.

[GPrime96]

Sortie Lephantis can one shot you as Titania with his scythe. Damage Scaling is ridiculous in this game (coming from a person who fought lvl 150 + enemies). IMO, it’s about as bad as the Armor Scaling. At high level, a Heavy gunner or a Corrupted heavy gunner probably have about 6 or 10 times the EHP of a Corpus Tech. 

[Voltage]

I disagree that this is a problem. Capping enemy damage while allowing players to scale would create a scenario where 50 minutes of survival feels the exact same as 5 hours. Scaling enemies is how DE challenges the scaling player.

Warframe is also a co-op game with a single player option. If you are struggling in a solo ESO run, try inviting friends, clan mates, or randoms. Eight rounds of onslaught is easily manageable with many different setups.

If you truely believe this is a healthy change to the game, then you can't complain when DE forces all players to hit a wall of the the same DPS.

[DeMonkey]

If damage stops scaling at a level that allows you to survive, then you will be able to survive infinitely. 

That's not going to work out.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

I have no problems surviving with Saryn Prime. I don't use any health or armor mods. I use Quick Thinking + Hunter Adrenaline + Rage + Life Strike. I also have two rank 1 Arcane Guardians, but that's it. 

You just need to make sure you're constantly moving and get really use to rolling to get behind enemies so you're not always taking direct shots. Rolling is also really useful to avoid getting stun-locked with Quick Thinking. I also just started incorporating slam attacks into my playstyle. When you're jumping around a lot to stay alive it's also really helpful to occasionally slam attack enemies to keep your spores spreading and you can just slam attack + Life Strike to get easy heals. 

 

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

I think they could do something to lower the rate that enemies' damage increases the higher they get in level until it almost plateaus but not quite. They'd still have increased armour etc just the same as it is now. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Enemy scaling isnt high enough imo. Needs to scale infinitely and a bit faster.

[(PSN)Radehx]

The solution is PARKOUR...never stop moving, ever. Very few frames can face tank at higher levels, but they are still totally feasible. People do long runs with super squishy Banshee in MOT without issues, and it comes down to being good at parkour. Always roll, never stand still and you have to be situationally aware of where enemies are coming from.

I only use Vitality and Regen molt on my Saryn, nothing else...and most of the time I do long endless runs. You also have to get good at placing molt in the correct spots, it makes a HUGE difference to her survivability. Need a "get out of jail card" at higher levels...use her 4 because it turns from a mostly damage to a mostly CC ability at higher levels. 

I use the same exact Saryn build for all content:

You can get 133/100/175/(214+25) with Regen Molt if you fit her with Growing Power, Power Drift, Augur Secrets, Intensify, Primed Continuity, Stretch, Vitality, Augur Reach, Transient Fortitude (r8), Regen Molt.

Edited June 19, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Enemy scaling isnt high enough imo. Needs to scale infinitely and a bit faster.

This!

Although they do get cleverer in some ways at higher levels. After 3hrs of MOT for example, stuff will try to stay outside Octavia's mallet hit range. Cheeky #*!%ers. 

Imo they should just add another Void branch starting at lvl80-100 for us crazy people. And offer us some real rewards for playing more challenging content.

Armor/health/shields don't really scale the same though, they could align that a bit. Armor scaling can be a bit nuts unless you bring something like Seeking Shuriken Ash, corrosive Mara Detron Mag, Saryn or one of the other great armor strippers.

Edited June 19, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

This!

Although they do get cleverer in some ways at higher levels. After 3hrs of MOT for example, stuff will try to stay outside Octavia's mallet hit range. Cheeky #*!%ers. 

Imo they should just add another Void branch starting at lvl80-100 for us crazy people. And offer us some real rewards for playing more challenging content.

Indeed. I also wish they would drop the timer on kuva floods so i can just play them over and over and make a new flood that's lvl 100 - 120 starting out.

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Indeed. I also wish they would drop the timer on kuva floods so i can just play them over and over and make a new flood that's lvl 100 - 120 starting out.

Recently watched some endgame runners in MOT on Twitch. 2 of them were meditating the first hour out of boredom. 

Give us a challenge DE!! I'd be fine starting my games at "one shot dead" levels. 

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

Give us a challenge DE!! I'd be fine starting my games at "one shot dead" levels. 

Knowing DE, They would scale the enemies where the level the enemies would one shot kill you is the same level where they would be extremely Tanky. They haven't gave us challenges where the enemies just hit extremely hard like in Nightmare mode or Mot.

[(PSN)Radehx]

11 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

Knowing DE, They would scale the enemies where the level the enemies would one shot kill you is the same level where they would be extremely Tanky. They haven't gave us challenges where the enemies just hit extremely hard like in Nightmare mode or Mot.

I'm totally fine with them being tanky too, you just have to run the right setups for the task at those levels. If you know armor scaling is an issue and you're solo or your team isn't running 4xCP, bring an armor stripper like Saryn, Mag or Oberon to fix that issue completely. 

Don't really struggle too hard with doing damage tbh. Frames like Seeking Shuriken Ash, Duality Equinox or Saryn pump out enough damage to go well into the high 100 and low 1000 levels in terms of damage.

Edited June 19, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[GPrime96]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

I'm totally fine with them being tanky too, you just have to run the right setups for the task at those levels. If you know armor scaling is an issue and you're solo or your team isn't running 4xCP, bring an armor stripper like Saryn, Mag or Oberon to fix that issue completely. 

Don't really struggle too hard with doing damage tbh. Frames like Seeking Shuriken Ash, Duality Equinox or Saryn pump out enough damage to go well into the high 100 and low 1000 levels in terms of damage.

Furthest i gotten in a team is near 190 and that was in a public Squad at Kuva Fortress (It was the most fun i ever had in Public). That was when i was playing in my old account. furthest Solo was lvl 180+ in this account and i wasn't using Radar mods but i was playing at Zabala,Eris.

[(PSN)Radehx]

5 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

Furthest i gotten in a team is near 190 and that was in a public Squad at Kuva Fortress (It was the most fun i ever had in Public). That was when i was playing in my old account. furthest Solo was lvl 180+ in this account and i wasn't using Radar mods but i was playing at Zabala,Eris.

It's fun (imo) to challenge yourself at those levels. Some frames work better than others for such long runs...Ash, Octavia, Ivara, Saryn, Duality Equinox, Oberon, Mag and Nidus come to mind. 

[DrBorris]

Pretty sure this is just one of the many symptoms of enemy AND player scaling.

Yes, this is a two sided problem that would need to be fixed in tandem. You can't "fix" enemy scaling without also messing with player scaling, but given that you will never be able to change player scaling because "change is bad", I doubt we will ever see any scaling changes.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

I'm totally fine with them being tanky too, you just have to run the right setups for the task at those levels. If you know armor scaling is an issue and you're solo or your team isn't running 4xCP, bring an armor stripper like Saryn, Mag or Oberon to fix that issue completely. 

Don't really struggle too hard with doing damage tbh. Frames like Seeking Shuriken Ash, Duality Equinox or Saryn pump out enough damage to go well into the high 100 and low 1000 levels in terms of damage.

Sonic fracture banshee is great for armor stripping and cc as well... strip their armor...Knockem down... Then a quick ground finisher and they die. Prisma obex with the augment wrx nicely. Especially if ur running a viral status setup.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

in MOT

Mot is the worst example you can bring in this argument because most units use projectile weapons there what can actually be dodged.

Try the same with the grineer shotgun guys or with bombards when the level scaling both increases their tracking speed, accuracy, reaction time and toggles the hive mind mode.

Nothing screams fun more than getting instakilled once you bulletjump out of a corridor because the hivemind grineer are tracking you throught the wall.

[GPrime96]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

Mot is the worst example you can bring in this argument because most units use projectile weapons there what can actually be dodged.

Try the same with the grineer shotgun guys or with bombards when the level scaling both increases their tracking speed, accuracy, reaction time and toggles the hive mind mode.

Nothing screams fun more than getting instakilled once you bulletjump out of a corridor because the hivemind grineer are tracking you throught the wall.

Or when you fighting the infested since the Ancient can No Scope aimbot you with their Hooks when you don't see them.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, VPrime96 said:

Or when you fighting the infested since the Ancient can No Scope aimbot you with their Hooks when you don't see them.

Oh yeah almost forgot about those.

You know whats funny? I was once interested in just how sensitive is their tracking and accuracy is at high levels so i got my ivara and entered an infested sortie 3. It took the guy only 1 second to see me and hook me after i decloaked because of a bulletjump.

[GPrime96]

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Oh yeah almost forgot about those.

You know whats funny? I was once interested in just how sensitive is their tracking and accuracy is at high levels so i got my ivara and entered an infested sortie 3. It took the guy only 1 second to see me and hook me after i decloaked because of a bulletjump.

At lvl 140 - 150 ish, It would only take one Disruptor to steal all of your energy. Infested got a pretty broken Scaling.

Edited June 19, 2018 by VPrime96

[Braken]

There's something people don't seem to think about here.

Players can scale, but to a set limit. And it takes time/money to actually get to that limit.

Enemies scale to no limit whatsoever, and very quickly.

[Eirshy]

I mean you could always git gud....

I fly naked on Titania for Cetus Bounty 5s, and my Sortie assassinate/survival go-to is also typically Titania with only Redir for EHP. Rarely ever get downed.

 

I do admit I usually cheese other sorties via Limbo or Hikudo Valkyr or other "more impressed if you did die" picks. But that's part of the game- using the right tools for the job.

Edited June 19, 2018 by TheBlueJelly

[RealPandemonium]

Damage 2.0 was designed with level 40-60 as endgame in mind.  Sorties (and Trials before them) have always been janky, with OP new(er) equipment options bandaiding the problem.  We need another whole revision to the damage and enemy level systems in order to fix this disparity.

[Djego27]

Il y a 2 heures, TheBlueJelly a dit :

I mean you could always git gud....

I fly naked on Titania for Cetus Bounty 5s, and my Sortie assassinate/survival go-to is also typically Titania with only Redir for EHP. Rarely ever get downed.

 

I do admit I usually cheese other sorties via Limbo or Hikudo Valkyr or other "more impressed if you did die" picks. But that's part of the game- using the right tools for the job.

I would suggest soloing L100+ without any cheese to get a good feel for it.  This also applies to all the people using tank frames were I for the most part still do not feel any issues 1h into Mot solo.  I would suggest Ember because the Frame is a good benchmark for stuff like this. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Djego27