Is Ballas Evil?

[Evil]

Does this mean I'm Ballas?!?!

[ModuloZero]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Kvetching about the clinical diagnosis doesn't make sense since I would imagine the bulk of players here aren't trained to make one...or even know what ASPD actually is.

That's, like, my point?

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

People commonly refer to the Joker as a psychopath as well...Are we going to bicker about his specifics of his diagnosis too?

Yes? I mean, not here, but common crime series approach to mental health is pretty bad, and criticising it wouldn't be anything novel.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

But using your logic....People shouldn't eat peanuts anymore because someone around them might be allergic.

What?

[Rakosta_Kai]

43 minutes ago, ModuloZero said:

That's, like, my point?

...Which means you don't have one.

44 minutes ago, ModuloZero said:

Yes? I mean, not here, but common crime series approach to mental health is pretty bad, and criticising it wouldn't be anything novel.

Stop... We are talking about fictional characters in fictional universes.

Their feelings are irrelevant.

If you, or anyone else in any wise, shape, or form identifies with either their feeling or their actions you need to seek immediate help and there are hotlines for this.

https://lifehacker.com/top-10-free-and-affordable-mental-health-and-counseling-1788814933 

Offers a list of available resources that you or they can take advantage of.

50 minutes ago, ModuloZero said:

What?

The fact that you don't understand that idea speaks volumes to me tbh.

Choose to be responsible for you...Don't request or require that others be responsible for you.

Here's a better question though... Why, in the actual heck, would a person with dis-associative tendencies coupled with violent urges be playing violent video games to begin with?

Purely rhetorical as questions go though...It's a question I genuinely don't want an answer to. 

 

 

 

 

[KeLaRo]

too bad that i canT kill Ballas more than one time.

is really evil :( 

[ModuloZero]

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Stop... We are talking about fictional characters in fictional universes.

Oh, good, you're not interested in this thread then. Bye?

[Rakosta_Kai]

20 minutes ago, ModuloZero said:

Oh, good, you're not interested in this thread then. Bye?

Rather, I don't think someone so easily triggered by stray commentary should be in a thread that appears tailor-made to set them off.

As such, the point right now, regards your commentary...

If discussions by forum-goers regarding their perceived psychopathy of a fictional character in a recent storyline is enough to get someone with ASPD triggered concerning the difference, they probably don't need to linger in that thread.

Goes back to what I said before...Choose to be responsible for you.

The term isn't banned and if you think it should be to appease people with violent dis-associative disorders then you should go report that to DE directly.

 

 

[ModuloZero]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

The term isn't banned and if you think it should be to appease people with violent dis-associative disorders then you should go report that to DE directly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you've literally said that discussing the mentality of fictional characters is pointless, so, again, what are you doing here?

And the only thing I'd like to discuss with DE is that ignored users still pop up if they quote you.

[Sarge_Tarmus]

Yes, he is.

[Rakosta_Kai]

23 minutes ago, ModuloZero said:

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you've literally said that discussing the mentality of fictional characters is pointless, so, again, what are you doing here?

You misunderstand... I said taking offense at how their characters are described is pointless because they have no feelings.

...They are fictional characters.

6 hours ago, ModuloZero said:

First, could y'all stop throwing the psychopath term around? Having ASPD doesn't automatically make you evil, and vice-versa, evil and abusive people usually don't have any form of ASPD.

...That's all you Boss.

Ballas' personality can be called any number of things based on differing opinions...Asking people to avoid using one specific thing because of a diagnosed disorder (that it imitates but isn't indicative of) is a bad look.

40 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Goes back to what I said before...Choose to be responsible for you.

...Seems like a simple ask to me.

[AJ5511]

14 hours ago, ModuloZero said:

15 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

The term isn't banned and if you think it should be to appease people with violent dis-associative disorders then you should go report that to DE directly.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you've literally said that discussing the mentality of fictional characters is pointless, so, again, what are you doing here?

And the only thing I'd like to discuss with DE is that ignored users still pop up if they quote you.

Woah guys, chill out. This is just a casual discussion about a guy in the game. I was just seeing if wether or not he is evil will play in to future quests. No need to get hostile Xd.

[marelooke]

On 2018-07-11 at 7:28 AM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

I think you misremembering Silvana. She had to work within the confines of her society which meant doing as she was told. However, She never wanted to do a war project. Even when working with Margilus she believed the work they were doing was nurturing and therapeutic. It wasn't until later she found out they were making a weapons out of it. She never resented the Tenno. To her, they and Margilus were victims in all of this. She only hated warframes because she saw them as weapons and it went against her nature as a nurturer to have helped create such a thing. Wouldn't call what she did selfish. She thought she created death incarnate and to balance the scales she wanted to stop and bring life. Like Margulis, she was one of the Good Orokin. Which makes sense considering Margs was her hero.

Suda is more of a case of neither benevolent nor malevolent. She's is a neutral sort. Before she became what she is now she was just a historian dedicated to remembering the past to protect the future. 

Alad V is on the list of bad Orokin

No longer human but Orokin in origin. Just like Suda and Silvana.   

Silvana and Margulis were still both Orokin and must have used the Orokin means to fight mortality. Aka, they were both still child-snatchers. Just something to keep in mind...

Alad V was called Orokin by Hunhow, I'm not sure we have any other source of him being Orokin? If it's only Hunhow then he might just consider: human = Orokin or just the fact that Corpus were already around in the Orokin era and actually created the Sentients so they just lump them all together.

Edited July 12, 2018 by marelooke

[Noabettiet]

Balas, what we know of him, isn't necessary evil, but just due to lack of information.

He was used as bait, on his first apparence.

What he is though, is prejudiced.

[Heiven]

When i think about it Ballas is more of the backstabbing revenge guy than a evil psychopath or just the evil type.Everything he did was so he can exact revenge on the Orokin for Margulis dead.

As for the creation of the umbra what better way to silence the great dax commander, leader of the Orikin elite gard than to turn him into a mindless puppet.Yes sure from our point of view it can be considered extremely cruel but he is on a revenge quest so everything is justified in his mind.

[(PSN)NecroLord91]

Evil? In the case I've seen people discussing on this topic, not really (at least not at this moment). An ***hole? I can agree with that no problem.

All I can say is that more information is needed before anyone can judge Ballas as "evil". I got this gut feeling that there is more to the story than what we currently see.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

That’s like asking “is grass green?”

[(PSN)Lowk721]

14 hours ago, marelooke said:

Silvana and Margulis were still both Orokin and must have used the Orokin means to fight mortality. Aka, they were both still child-snatchers. Just something to keep in mind... 

Not neccesarily. Longer lifespans seem to be achived without continuity. Davro is over 100 something. Teshin is still around. And Ballas is still in the same body he was in back then.

Considering there feelings towards the children and Margulis specific views towards Orokin, in general, it more likely they didn't.

Not all Orokin even likely had the rank/status for an opportunity. Some probably couldn't do it since their bodies were built for a purpose like the Healer in the corrupted ancient synthesis.

EDIT

Suda had the same rank but Margulis. If they all did continuity she wouldn't have needed to turn into a cephalon. She could've just hopped into a new body not affected by memory loss via her old age. 

So maybe it is above their rank.

Edited July 13, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[AJ5511]

6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That’s like asking “is grass green?”

I'm not so sure, alot of people are saying he is completely evil without understanding his circumstance. And after all this guy is significantly important, as he created the Warframes, so maybe having him on our side in the future won't be so bad. We are much closer to the Orokin than the sentients from what I understand. Also, seeing how the new war against the sentients is coming, having Ballas with us will be a huge advantage as he has had experience with the sentients first hand. This won't be the first time he has switched sides, and maybe this time it will be for the better.

[fadingtheory]

12 minutes ago, AJ5511 said:

I'm not so sure, alot of people are saying he is completely evil without understanding his circumstance.

Explain the circumstances under which dooming a man to live with only the memory of killing his own son (And act forced) is not evil. Particularly when the 'crime' this man committed was obeying masters that he quite literally could not have disobeyed even if he tried.

Edited July 13, 2018 by fadingtheory

[(PSN)Lowk721]

5 hours ago, AJ5511 said:

I'm not so sure, alot of people are saying he is completely evil without understanding his circumstance.

I completely understand his circumstance. It is sad that he lost Margulis. That is where the pity train stops for him. His position and what we know about the top Orokin already puts him in the worst spot. Like these are the people okay with body-snatching. They literally make the rules and that was a thing they were cool with letting happen.

5 hours ago, AJ5511 said:

And after all this guy is significantly important, as he created the Warframes, so maybe having him on our side in the future won't be so bad. We are much closer to the Orokin than the sentients from what I understand. Also, seeing how the new war against the sentients is coming, having Ballas with us will be a huge advantage as he has had experience with the sentients first hand. This won't be the first time he has switched sides, and maybe this time it will be for the better.

What about his character makes you think having him on the tenno's side is a good thing? Some frames are made of unwilling people who served best. Umbra is not the only person who had to go through that against his will and those others likely didn't even have a beef with him. Add on to that given the argument between him and Margs he did not like the kids to begin with and I bet he in some part blames them for Margulis' death.

So, he's proven manipulative sack of crap, who doesn't like Tenno; and we've seen what he does to people he barely considers a threat. Him coming to the Tenno side? That's like the story of the scorpion and the frog. 

4 hours ago, fadingtheory said:

Explain the circumstances under which dooming a man to live with only the memory of killing his own son (And act forced) is not evil. Particularly when the 'crime' this man committed was obeying masters that he quite literally could not have disobeyed even if he tried.

 

That might not even be the extent of it of his douchebaggery. Remeber
He will, and his children will. You see... these are the stakes of this little game. Each stone I capture will be another and another and another... culled from your subversive bloodline.
He didn't just torment this one guy. He went after this dude whole bloodline and told him as he lay helpless what was going to happen. Every piece you lose is another child he is either going to go after or have Umbra do to them what he did to his son.

And even worse yet 
You thought you could out-play me? I've had lifetimes to plan my defection. You spied on me, intercepted my communications. But I saw your move long before you took it. And so... we come to the consequences...
He was in control the whole time. Ballas let him get as far as he did in the first place. 

If there were a test for evil this man would be a card-carrying super-villain.  

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Atsia]

While he may not be 100% evil, he's nowhere NEAR what ANYONE would call good and is definitely antagonistic and does not like us tenno. I personally am not willing to work with him in any kind of fashion, bar a complete 180 in his character, which at this point would really be bad writing to me.

[marelooke]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Not neccesarily. Longer lifespans seem to be achived without continuity. Davro is over 100 something. Teshin is still around. And Ballas is still in the same body he was in back then.

Considering there feelings towards the children and Margulis specific views towards Orokin, in general, it more likely they didn't.

Not all Orokin even likely had the rank/status for an opportunity. Some probably couldn't do it since their bodies were built for a purpose like the Healer in the corrupted ancient synthesis.

EDIT

Suda had the same rank but Margulis. If they all did continuity she wouldn't have needed to turn into a cephalon. She could've just hopped into a new body not affected by memory loss via her old age. 

So maybe it is above their rank.

Given how the Grineer Queens were apparently outcasts and still had access to this, I'm not entirely convinced it was a rank thing just yet.

That said, I thought the body snatching thing was extremely weak story telling as, as you note, we have quite a few other individuals that are way beyond a "normal" lifespan and weren't Orokin... I pointed this out back when this story bit was released: it killed any nuance the Orokin had an put them squarely into the cartoonish evil zone. I most certainly wouldn't mind or be surprised if DE tries to downplay or retcon this part of the story. It also wouldn't make sense for the Orokin to resort to this means if there were more accessible ways to gain a long lifespan without any drawbacks (given how Teshin doesn't exactly appear old...)

I know of Margulis specific feelings towards the Tenno, but I'm not sure we can know whether it extended to all children. I also don't think we know the exact origin of the Tenno yet. If we were Orokin children that could put things in a rather different light than if we were just random inhabitants of the Orokin Empire (like, say, the Ostron's predecessors or the Corpus). Then again, the snippets of the conversation between Margulis and Ballas refer to "you Orokin" but that could of course also be a way of her to distantiate herself from a civilization that she feels betrayed her.

Citizens being aware that their civilization is on a decline doesn't necessarily make them "good", either. Eg. Caesar was quite aware of the  decline of the Roman Republic, but few people would qualify his actions resulting from that knowledge as "good" and many of his contemporaries definitely didn't.

 

Hmm, I think I missed where we learn more about Suda's origin, where's that information from?

[(PSN)Lowk721]

24 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Hmm, I think I missed where we learn more about Suda's origin, where's that information from? 

The web comic prelude to Octavia's Anthem. Its called What Remains.

36 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Given how the Grineer Queens were apparently outcasts and still had access to this, I'm not entirely convinced it was a rank thing just yet.

That said, I thought the body snatching thing was extremely weak story telling as, as you note, we have quite a few other individuals that are way beyond a "normal" lifespan and weren't Orokin... I pointed this out back when this story bit was released: it killed any nuance the Orokin had an put them squarely into the cartoonish evil zone. I most certainly wouldn't mind or be surprised if DE tries to downplay or retcon this part of the story. It also wouldn't make sense for the Orokin to resort to this means if there were more accessible ways to gain a long lifespan without any drawbacks (given how Teshin doesn't exactly appear old...) 

Your right. just looked at the transcript. It wasn't a rank thing. It was based on bartering. The way Tesh talks about it, seemed essentially like a slave trade. You go to this grand place and you'd have to pay for a new body you inspected. Which isn't so much cartoonish evil as it is a fantasy twist on some classic human cruelty.

The Orkin queen had grineer serving her post collaspe. She could've gotten access to it afterwards. We don't really have a timeline for what she's done.

 

And would it have even been a thing before Margilus? Isn't it like a form of transferance? Which only happened after her work with the Tenno.... Cuz that would add a whole other level to the disrespect beyond just weaponizing research to help kids. Thats turns aid for mutated kids into a body jack system to steal other bodies. And then Inaros' story makes events even more twisted.

[Chewarette]

In my opinion, Ballas started as a Chaotic Good type of guy (nothing he did was for himself, he just did what he did for "good" purposes, the end justifies the means), to end up as a Chaotic Neutral when Margulis was killed (gtfo I'm going to create my own Orokin Society, with Blackjack and Hookers Sentients).

[OldWhateley]

Ballas did nothing wrong

[AJ5511]

12 hours ago, OldWhateley said:

Ballas did nothing wrong

Lol, that refrence...

Edited July 14, 2018 by AJ5511