Tutorial is so damn bad

[(PSN)hereticSky]

48 minutes ago, IIDMOII said:

I disagree. If you need to refer to an external source or even the codex for basic info, then the game isn't doing a good enough job.

I agree with the op. Most of my time learning has been through trial and error or external research. The game itself teaches you nothing of importance.

I also agree with his point about reactors/catalysts. They aren't a good game system. And something so integral to your power level is totally left out of any tutorial. 

But how do explain to a new player that you want to double dip on the micros? It's better not to say anything.

Yeah you can bypass the platinum cost on some things by crafting them but they won't be viable for much of anything unless you drop real money on a potato. Double dip. No one seems to mind though. 

If anything, the people that put in the effort to collect materials and blueprints & wait unreasonable amounts of time for completion should be getting pre-installed potatoes.

The whales who lazily buy stuff outright should have to jump through hoops for the potatoes. 

Or just get rid of them entirely. They are the least consumer friendly part of this game imo. 

So let me get this straight:

You want people punished for spending real money on the game, and you want people to be rewarded for not spending money on the game beyond what they chose to get by not spending money, i.e. wait 72 hours got a Warframe to be built instead of rushing it with plat will reward the free player the unspent plat as well as a Warframe at the cost of time.

Given this scenario, you want the person who waited to get a Warframe/weapon with pre installed reactor/catalyst because they waited. But if they chose to rush it, they won't get it preinstalled. 

Do you see the fallacy here?

 

Furthermore, you call to abolish reactors and catalysts altogether down the line. Do you have a suggestion for a replacement? Because that's a viable revenue stream you're trying to eliminate in a game where you get everything for free at the cost of time.

[AtsiaZ]

You should get rid of the megathread tag OP, it's for DEv use only

[Kiolandframe]

Even I am new I am figuring out this still but am doing well even with the laggy pc we just need to ask for help and observe the things ig this is bout learning and grinding

[_Stewbawl]

i agree that there should be a better tutorial.  at various points i have felt very lost and a better help option IN GAME would be much appreciated.  i have invited friends to come play this game, some of them are now very addicted to it and have more playtime than i do now.  but even more of them quit before giving it what i would consider a fair chance, due primarily to the fact that it was not clear what was expected of them, and a severe lack of explanation.

i don't agree that during or through completion players should be given a whole bucket full of mods.  a few should be given to explain what they are and how to use them, but i feel enough drop through missions that it is sufficient.  

i have a personal dislike for games that rely on players to access out of game content such as a Wiki to learn what they need.  Warframe is a wonderfull space opera with beautiful graphics and a great yet complicated story where you can find it.  NOTHING breaks immersion and enjoyment for me, and probably other players as well when you can't figure out what you need in game and you have to quit the game or Alt+Tab out and open up a wiki page and read up on the current issue.

don't get me wrong though, i love the wiki and love it as a resource.  but you wouldn't stop in the middle of dinner to go read how large a serving size of milk is.

[(PSN)hereticSky]

19 minutes ago, taxman7912 said:

don't get me wrong though, i love the wiki and love it as a resource.  but you wouldn't stop in the middle of dinner to go read how large a serving size of milk is.

I'm sorry the person who developed your dinner didn't include the information on how large a serving size of milk is. But if it was detrimental to your dinner progression, I'm sure you'd go and find the information. 

The game should also not give you buckets of mods but it does give you enough of the relevant mods in their broken version. The idea here, if you didn't get the hint, is to aim for non broken versions of those mods. 

Any more handholding and it becomes smothering. Is this what you want? You want to be smothered?

I go to a restaurant, I order a dish. The menu has calorie information but I want to know more information on my dinner. I ask the relevant parties, the waiter, the maitre d and so on and so forth for further information. It's not readily available on the menu how many friends the chicken had or it's average mood setting because it's data overload but I'm sure if I absolutely needed to know this, it'd be available somewhere. 

[Zepp_]

Another thread tagged Megathread without actually being a Megathread.  Where are these users coming from lately?

[(PSN)abbacephas]

29 minutes ago, Zepp_ said:

Another thread tagged Megathread without actually being a Megathread.  Where are these users coming from lately?

Destiny.

Spoiler

 

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

24 minutes ago, Zepp_ said:

Another thread tagged Megathread without actually being a Megathread.  Where are these users coming from lately?

I don’t understand why they are still up, if DE intend it for them only then remove it from public use 

or delete posts that use it, maybe they do delete posts but I never noticed as I’m not a frequent user here, besides, this thread has been active for what? Almost 6 hours

 

 

anyways on topic: I think there should be an optional tutorial 

like after you complete a mission it will pop up 

“learn more about mods/building/frames” and will load it you into some mission where they explain it or you can simply reject it and continue as you wish

 

I remember first joining warframe in 2014, I played for a while then quit. I joined back near end of 2016 making a couple of friends join too.   Our first block was Venus. We simply had no idea how to kill the Jackal. One of my friends chose Excalibur like me( other choosing Volt)

After a couple of attempts we gave up. We then decided let’s use our

”Blades of Glory”(Exalted Blade) and just spammed our way through

we didn’t know if it would work but we kept spamming and eventually the Jackal died.

our next block was on Mars. Lech Krill was a pain. Didn’t know when to shoot him and i don’t recall the game ever telling us about the technique to kill him, or the majority of bosses in the game honestly.

then the Cephalon fragments were quite annoying, that was when we actually decided to research about the game. We then progressed easily to, Saturn or Jupiter via this way

 

during all this time, we had no clue of modding and whatnot. It was just get max shields and health and for weapons it was max damage and fire rate. Didn’t even touch Elemental mods or efficiency mods.

It would be nice on DE’s behalf to include small subtle tutorials like this to help the majority of the player base.

 

Currently MR 14 and I do still research some stuff now. Good that we have a very helpful community to help new players

[DrakeWurrum]

Yeah, like others have said, we don't really need a tutorial full of hand holding. This is a game that rewards players for looking through the game systems and learning them the hard way.
It also rewards players who look things up on the wiki, which is VERY comprehensive.

So like I said at the beginning of the thread... there just needs to be an in-game link to the wiki. At the most, Ordis should maybe explain some of the ship sub-systems early on (modding and how important it is, perhaps), but nothing in-depth.

The only place in the game that I feel needs a bit more guidance is helping players find the Quills.

Edited August 10, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[Marvelous_A]

While I agree the tutorial is not good enough I can't say your most of your suggestions are good either.

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Reward for doeing it should be like basic mods(not broken) like: For Warframe - Vitality, Redirection, Flow, Streamline,Stretch, Intensify, Thief's Wit ,Equilibrium., for Primary: Serration, Point Blank and all Elemental Mods like Chilling Grasp , Charged Shell, Incendiary Coat , Contagious Spread . same for secondary and melee .

This one is a good suggestion but I think DE really should give Vitality, Redirection and base damage mods for rifle, secondary and melee early, Flow, Streamline, Stretch, Intensify and Continuity can be reward of the first few Junctions.

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There should be more info about companion like u can have kubrow or small "flying thing" under head who's claiming loot for ya. Dropping kubrow egg is even problem for newbies.They are so confused. Also Taxon got 24h crafting time what is ridiculous.

We've got Kubrow quest already so I think it's fine, Kavats work pretty much the same as Kubrows. Sentinels are simply build-and-use type and require no maintenance so I don't think new players will have a problem for that.

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In Tutoral there's nothing about installing potato in warframe/weapons , also both Catalyst and Reactor should be given at begining.

Actually there is a tutorial in mod section to tell you the basic concepts of mods and mod capacity, although it's plain text and can be somewhat confusing for a new player. I don't think there is a need for free Catalyst and Reactor at start coz you simply don't need this much power early on. Your first warframe could come with pre-installed reactor though.

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Also daily rewards for first days in game shout be like 100,200,300 endo or any cool looking Syadana .

This is simply unnecessary. Syandana is not a vital part in gameplay. If you want fashion, learn how to trade and earn it.

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Mars Boss drop Excalibur components - but what if someone would pick Excalibur as first frame?, Earth Boss drop Hydroid but i dont see newbies who's can kill him - even MR10 got troubles with him LEL. Only Ceres is fine - frames like Rhino, Frost and Oberon are good for start and I think that they should be reward for Boss challenges at first Planets.

It's simply to keep consistency between all 3 beginner frames. Vay Hek despite being the boss of the first planet is not meant to be an easy boss. You can get these frames early on and it's the main motivation of keep pushing in starchart. There is just no real reason to change this.

Quote

I play Warframe since Year , I recruit so many new tennos and many of them after few hours of playing give up because was so confused and usually tells me that there's too much everyting, I don't have that much time to be good in this game. 
What do u think about it? 

You makes Warframe looking more complicated than it really is. Unless you want to min-max you hardly need reading the wiki outside of knowing few important concepts.

 

And for the matter of wiki there is a simple reason they won't give a direct wiki link in-game - it doesn't belong to DE and they want to avoid any sticky situation by linking a third party website in game. Same reason why they aren't gonna put warframe market in game.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Are you a chatmod or DE employee? No? Remove the mega thread tag

[johnxd_]

On 2018-08-10 at 11:26 PM, kaldewej said:

Change the settings to borderless windowed mode. This should fix it.

yeah but games in windowed mode suck

[kaldewej]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb johnxd_:

yeah but games in windowed mode suck

Well either that or a long loading time. But you won't notice the difference since its borderless.

[Avynire]

Use the chat, and use the infamous warframe community, they often help. Region chat also has "command" to find where certain item drop if i'm not mistaken. 

[Sloan441]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎10 at 8:34 AM, Downlouder said:

I think Tutorial in Warframe is rly damn bad. 

...and it doesn't matter. 

The devs have revamped the tutorial twice and found it makes no difference in retention. None at all. 

So. 

What it comes down to is if you have the desire to actually learn and succeed in the game. If you do, you'll find a way (we all did). If you don't, you'll move on and nothing much will affect that decision. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Sloan441
vowels are hard

[(PSN)Silverback73]

There is a turorial?  I just started leveling my third amp before realizing there are Alt-fire modes.  I’m MR 25 😆

[kaldewej]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Silverback73:

There is a turorial?  I just started leveling my third amp before realizing there are Alt-fire modes.  I’m MR 25 😆

What?

Sincerly, an other MR25 😂

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 minutes ago, kaldewej said:

What?

Sincerly, an other MR25 😂

Yep...not kidding.  The process of discovery/investigation is on purpose...it creates an investment.  Kewl Avatar.

Edited August 12, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Tutorial needs some hard tweaking badly, yeah. But some of the things you listed aren't the thungs they need to fix imo.

 

What drops where or who drops what set is something you'd stumble upon from just playing.

We do get some basic mods like vitality, serration, etc. from junctions.

There's a whole quest regarding kubrows and you got a free sentinel too. They do need to do that for kavat tho, and lessening taxon build time is also neat.

I think we do have a potatoe tutorial. But it is pretty hidden, you have to access it from the modding screen or from the codex.

This isn't even tutorial territory but having the first few login rewards be fixed would really be great yeah. A syandana is eh.. do you need a fashion piece that early that badly?

Regarding frame drops. Vay hek is more of those high level old school rpg bosses that hides in low levels. You aren't even asked to defeat him till like later on.

 

IMO they should just direct new player to thw codex early on and let them read. Too many new player expects tutorials to flash in the middle of the screen, i think routing them to just that would work. And while we're at it, complete the codex some more, tell people that they can actually get some infos that they thought isn't in the game like drops and such (some crucial info like who drops what shouldn't be hidden till you scan them, it should be revealed the moment you met it).

[Lakais]

One of the main problems with putting that much info into the tutorial is  information overload. You just get slapped with a massive wall of text and considering that for most people (me included) massive walls of text are more likely to cause me to gloss over it, that much info at a too short time would actually be worse. 

As for some parts, there is a point that it's maybe a bit too easy to miss some indications and hints like in the first map that teaches you basic movement and actions. The hovering text is easy to miss so having it follow your screen, as if projected in front of the frame for it to read is a better option. There should also be more mention and even a forced transition into the codex's tutorial section because a LOT of the information that new players need is there in easy access. People simply aren't aware of that resource. 

[Simoom]

There's a tutorial?

[(XBOX)calvina]

15 minutes ago, Lakais said:

One of the main problems with putting that much info into the tutorial is  information overload. You just get slapped with a massive wall of text and considering that for most people (me included) massive walls of text are more likely to cause me to gloss over it, that much info at a too short time would actually be worse. 

As for some parts, there is a point that it's maybe a bit too easy to miss some indications and hints like in the first map that teaches you basic movement and actions. The hovering text is easy to miss so having it follow your screen, as if projected in front of the frame for it to read is a better option. There should also be more mention and even a forced transition into the codex's tutorial section because a LOT of the information that new players need is there in easy access. People simply aren't aware of that resource. 

I think the biggest problem with the tutorial is that warframe changes too often to keep any of it relevant after a period of time.

And I'm talking about things like Parkour 2.0, Melee 3.0, etc. Systems and mechanics constantly being revamped within months. So if a completely new tutorial was to be made right now, with relevant and useful information and guidance, it'll be a year before it has to be remade again.

 

(Although I think it's about time that DE actually made a new tutorial quest for new players to get into, not to mention new rewards and potentially more starter weapons and warframe choices to pick from. And even introductionary stance mods because chances are, new players will be completely unaware that Warframe melee weapons have a combo system outside the same 2 quick swing melee attacks.)

Edited August 12, 2018 by (XB1)calvina

[Lakais]

1 minute ago, (XB1)calvina said:

I think the biggest problem with the tutorial is that warframe changes too often to keep any of it relevant after a period of time.

And I'm talking about things like Parkour 2.0, Melee 3.0, etc. Systems and mechanics constantly being revamped within months. So if a completely new tutorial was to be made right now, with relevant and useful information and guidance, it'll be a year before it has to be remade again.

Most basic aspects remain unchanged and then there's the fact that these complete revamp changes are not that common. Like Mod polarities, resource gathering, crafting, the actual mechanics and uses of modding and the basic gameplay actions have all remained consistent. There even is a Parkour 2.0 tutorial in the codex that is an interactive obstacle course. Melee I agree with but that is something that should be updated when the change happens as is needed.

Basically I hold that tutorials shouldn't be completely detailed step-by-step instructions for everything. The detailed stuff is just for the most basic immediate gameplay. Basic moving, shooting and other interactions with the common systems like the terminals in the ships and their main functions. Those are all covered right now. The rest should come in general hints and suggestions that implore people to try things for themselves. Such tutorials already exist in the game but the game itself doesn't seem that inclined to remind players of those resources and that, I think, is the main issue. 

[Downlouder]

6 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

This isn't even tutorial territory but having the first few login rewards be fixed would really be great yeah. A syandana is eh.. do you need a fashion piece that early that badly?

Why syadana? Well,everyone like gifts, esp cool looking gifts at begining adventure with the new game. This is way to keep new players. Frames without any attachments and syadanas at the begining looks really poor. Nobody's would spend real money for a new game who's dont know that he would play(and platinum is not so cheap without discount).It would be like Candy to encourage new players to stay and discover new things.

Games which required time and knowledge to being good usually are very addicting.Good example is most popular and toxic Moba(you know which one) - people still playing this game not because they have fun, they still playing this toxic game cause learn too much about this game to be good.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Downlouder

[(PSN)Chel-El]

There’s a WF documentary by Noclip on YT. On it Steve says players are very smart, that they can detect how much time the game asks, and that it asks of them to do research. 

Some stay even is that’s the case, some don’t because of those very reasons.  

So then DE is aware of the players’ willingness to learn outside the game, so they don’t have to cram every instruction in the game.

I first felt this way too and went to the forums to complain about synthesis scanning for a quest.

Months later I’m still posting and researching, even reading random things that would be beneficial much later.

It’s all part of WF’s weird feedback loop of discussion and application. Other games are the same by the way, you won’t get gud just by going to practice mode on your own. I got good in OW by learning from pros, now even my 10 y/o cousin watches Fornite videos to learn stuff and apply it in game.