Revenant is a damned mess.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 hours ago, MrMysticalPotato said:

Wait, you've not actually played the frame? Then you're only making feeback based on what you've read? Then I'd have to agree you really need to test it first, mind you, it's clear you're already biased and decided you don't like it. That's fine! There are plenty of other frames. It's a game. Don't get too serious about it.

My feedback is based on reading his wiki and watching well informed people's videos (like AGGP and brozime to name 2 examples.)  It's not that I don't like him nor do I think he's terrible.  I just think he's very average and could easily be better with some small adjustments.  My frustration comes from the fact that he's based around resource management (thralls and charges) yet both are hard to utilize and manage due to how they're implemented.

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

Why does he have to test it? Is there something about his argument you find false? If so, is there a reason you can't just directly address it rather than arbitrarily telling him to find it himself? I'm all for accurate information and informed discussion but you seem to be asking for him to jump through hoops just for the sake of jumping through hoops. 

Thank you.

55 minutes ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

I feel the same way. Especially with the guy talking about the 'dish' at a restaurant. I've never ate horse manure, but if I say a dish made with it is horrible my feedback is invalid even though I know for a literal fact manure is the waste product from the animal. Extreme example I know, but that's literally how I'm seeing this.

I'd have used a different example but yeah basically.

5 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

in regards to your thread being dismissed because "you didn't taste the dish":

The frame isn't anything to write home about right now. I'm pretty sure that everyone can agree on that much. Why would I subject myself to that grind or fork over platinum for a frame that looks lame to me? I also have opinions about Rev without having played him, and that's because I have played with him a lot recently. I see how poorly his abilities actually work aside from his 4 (which can still be unreliable on multi-level layouts) so I can understand people being defensive about changes being made to it.. but sometimes changes are for the better. It doesn't have to be a nerf. When DE revisits his kit maybe they can make the whole thing useful instead of relying on just the one skill that invites you to not play the game for a while. 

I don't need to test a frame to see how he plays. I see other people playing him and read the wiki for exact statistics. That's all I need to know. There's also watching a video guide/stream on the frame. There's a ton of solid information & videos of other people playing frames out there. How is playing him myself any different from seeing a firsthand view of someone else who is experienced playing him?

The comparison between a frame and a culinary dish cracked me up. When it comes to a dish, there are a lot more variables that you don't know because you didn't cook the food. Frames on the other hand... well it's all there on the wiki and youtube in black and white. Still having doubts? Watch a streamer play him for 10 mins. lol 

 

The reason I was attacked is quite simple.  They didn't like what I was saying for whatever reason.  So the obvious course of action is to discredit any valid points I may have and also attempt to make me look bad.  Hence why I was said to be "whining" among other remarks.  And why they constantly slapped out the "you didn't play him" card.  Forums in general would be a lot better place if people could just be honest.  If they didn't like my attitude or thoughts I could have easily accepted them saying so.  But they tried to validate their feelings in such a gross way.  And that's what bothers me.

9 hours ago, SweetScreams said:

Yea, frame lacks alot. Just seems confused, and the smoke effect from the armor is annoying as hell. Fogs up the players screen. Need to stop making frames without a good idea of how it should look and be played. Lot of misses lately

100% Revenant comes off as a "cool idea" rather than a thought out frame that follows their traditional design path.  But that could just be how it comes across to me.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Feedback's deffinition doesn't have a cliff note that requires someone to have experienced something in order for it to be feedback.  But i'm done arguing.  If you want to be dismissive be dismissive.

Sure "feedback" may not have a strict meaning, it does however have a general accepted meaning among the majority of people on this planet no matter if you accept that or not. Hopefully the devs will share that common view on feedback aswell and not listen to people without first-hand experience with a frame (or piece of content for that matter).

4 hours ago, Sesaline said:

in regards to your thread being dismissed because "you didn't taste the dish":

The frame isn't anything to write home about right now. I'm pretty sure that everyone can agree on that much. Why would I subject myself to that grind or fork over platinum for a frame that looks lame to me? I also have opinions about Rev without having played him, and that's because I have played with him a lot recently. I see how poorly his abilities actually work aside from his 4 (which can still be unreliable on multi-level layouts) so I can understand people being defensive about changes being made to it.. but sometimes changes are for the better. It doesn't have to be a nerf. When DE revisits his kit maybe they can make the whole thing useful instead of relying on just the one skill that invites you to not play the game for a while. 

I don't need to test a frame to see how he plays. I see other people playing him and read the wiki for exact statistics. That's all I need to know. There's also watching a video guide/stream on the frame. There's a ton of solid information & videos of other people playing frames out there. How is playing him myself any different from seeing a firsthand view of someone else who is experienced playing him?

The comparison between a frame and a culinary dish cracked me up. When it comes to a dish, there are a lot more variables that you don't know because you didn't cook the food. Frames on the other hand... well it's all there on the wiki and youtube in black and white. Still having doubts? Watch a streamer play him for 10 mins. lol 

 

"Subject yourself to the grind"? Even that is a false claim, there is no grind for him. It takes you maybe 2 hours to have every piece for him, he is simply that easy to get. Also, while you might have seen others play him, you still have no real idea of how he is, you dont know how well those players play him. I can agree that his #1 is poorly designed due to it impacting the gameplay due to the need to hunt down the thralls in things like defense missions..

I've seen plenty of people play certain frames and thought "man that frame must suck", then I've played them myself and found them to be great when built right..

I'm sure Revenant isnt perfect, but without first-hands testing people cant give proper feedback on what needs to be changed. As I mentioned earlier, people (console players) that didnt have the new Saryn yet complained about several things, weeks after those things had gotten fixed because they had read it somewhere or seen an old video. So second hand feedback really isnt viable many times.

Likely there will be fixes to Revenant in the next patch or the one after that, just like Khora had.

[SneakyErvin]

I've tested Revenant now and slapped some formas on him and I dont see the massive issues with him. There are some issues yes, but not to the extent people make them.

1. Visuals. I dont understand the complaint. He is based on revenant creatures of folklore with a touch of eidolon instead of the actual supernatural. His look fits very well with the theme, it symbolizes the Poltergeist, Draugr, Ghost, Wight and other revenant creatures well. Vlad was likely just a name based around the current skills and not the actual look, so he is more similar to other types of revenants and less that of a Vampire. Also, Inaros isnt a Vamp themed frame, he is a curse of the mummy themed frame in every aspect, from sand based abilities, scarabs, life leech and sarcophagus.

2. Skills.

Enthrall feels a bit lackluster, but it is a #1 skill. Adding in more Thralls would have the posibility to turn his #4 into an overpowered skill due to the synergy between thralls and dance. Overshield orbs all over the place. However, having a lackluster #1 skill isnt uncommon. Zephyr, Ember, Banshee, Chroma, Frost, Mesa, Nekros, Trinity, Nyx, Oberon, Titania, Valkyr, Vauban, Wukong, Atlas, Enox and Loki all have #1 skills that are borderline useless or extremely situational.

Mesmer skin is in a pretty good spot. It is easy enough to stay alive with it vs groups of tougher enemies. Letting it be recast while doing Dance Macabre would be a good solution since it isnt as reliable as Mesa's #3. It is far more reliable than Nova's #1 since it doesnt get consumed as an attack on nearby enemies. Mesmer Skin is tough enough to let you safely kill the few tougher mobs that can usually wipe you out quickly, like Kuva Guardians in Floods.

Reave is a decent skill for "oh S#&$" situations. Facing a pack of enemies and you're low on shields or hp? Reave through them to fill up. Even at 8% per enemy it gives a nice return depending on mob density.

Dance Macabre is in a good spot. It could use a tweak to hit enemies higher up than you but it isnt the way it was designed. The synergy between Enthrall (and Mesmer Skin) makes it a great tool in the kit. While shields may not be the greatest defense, they are still pretty good on Revenant due to his high natural shields and reave. 

I do agree with the screen clutter, I had to modify my energy color to a far darker tone than I intended in order to not have an overload out flash when using Dance.

I also agree that casting speed could be increased on him. Reave is great while Dancing, but on its own it is a slow cast that feels bulky, clunky, cumbersome. Same deal with Mesmer Skin.

The passive could also be replaced. I wouldnt mind seeing a passive that gives a small amout of life+shield leech per hit.

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I've tested Revenant now and slapped some formas on him and I dont see the massive issues with him. There are some issues yes, but not to the extent people make them.

1. Visuals. I dont understand the complaint. He is based on revenant creatures of folklore with a touch of eidolon instead of the actual supernatural. His look fits very well with the theme, it symbolizes the Poltergeist, Draugr, Ghost, Wight and other revenant creatures well. Vlad was likely just a name based around the current skills and not the actual look, so he is more similar to other types of revenants and less that of a Vampire. Also, Inaros isnt a Vamp themed frame, he is a curse of the mummy themed frame in every aspect, from sand based abilities, scarabs, life leech and sarcophagus.

2. Skills.

Enthrall feels a bit lackluster, but it is a #1 skill. Adding in more Thralls would have the posibility to turn his #4 into an overpowered skill due to the synergy between thralls and dance. Overshield orbs all over the place. However, having a lackluster #1 skill isnt uncommon. Zephyr, Ember, Banshee, Chroma, Frost, Mesa, Nekros, Trinity, Nyx, Oberon, Titania, Valkyr, Vauban, Wukong, Atlas, Enox and Loki all have #1 skills that are borderline useless or extremely situational.

Mesmer skin is in a pretty good spot. It is easy enough to stay alive with it vs groups of tougher enemies. Letting it be recast while doing Dance Macabre would be a good solution since it isnt as reliable as Mesa's #3. It is far more reliable than Nova's #1 since it doesnt get consumed as an attack on nearby enemies. Mesmer Skin is tough enough to let you safely kill the few tougher mobs that can usually wipe you out quickly, like Kuva Guardians in Floods.

Reave is a decent skill for "oh S#&$" situations. Facing a pack of enemies and you're low on shields or hp? Reave through them to fill up. Even at 8% per enemy it gives a nice return depending on mob density.

Dance Macabre is in a good spot. It could use a tweak to hit enemies higher up than you but it isnt the way it was designed. The synergy between Enthrall (and Mesmer Skin) makes it a great tool in the kit. While shields may not be the greatest defense, they are still pretty good on Revenant due to his high natural shields and reave. 

I do agree with the screen clutter, I had to modify my energy color to a far darker tone than I intended in order to not have an overload out flash when using Dance.

I also agree that casting speed could be increased on him. Reave is great while Dancing, but on its own it is a slow cast that feels bulky, clunky, cumbersome. Same deal with Mesmer Skin.

The passive could also be replaced. I wouldnt mind seeing a passive that gives a small amout of life+shield leech per hit.

 

 

 

My original post makes him sound like he's garbage.  That wasn't my intent.  It was more of a rant/vent thread that had minor constructive criticism.  If you saw the edit you'll see my actual constructive feedback.  Anyway on to what you've said.  I don't believe Revenant has massive issues.  My impressions and what i've gotten from others is that he's just boring/average.  Like usually there is hype around a new WF release.  afaik I don't recall hearing many being hyped for him.  He's not bad.  But he feels held back/could be a lot better.

Visuals he looks too similar to Limbo.  Not that limbo looks bad.  I don't really get a sentient/vampiric feel from looking at him.  about the only time I do is with his glowy bits and how his body reacts to using certain abilities.  He colors nice.  He just doesn't look...interesting.

Shields don't mean much for the game.  Adding 6 extra thralls into the mix would not impact the overshields gained for anyone in a significant fashion at least as far as late game is concerned (where status procs are fairly common.)  And you're right that it's common to not have such a good 1.  But the problem is his 1 is thrall making.  Which his entire kit revolves around using.  So that's not a viable counter point imho.

Not sure how you could recast it during his 4 considering the kind of animation his 4 is.  I think you should be able to get more mesmer charges from reaving thralls.  Since you use reave a lot for movement during his 4 anyway.  I still think mesmer skin should have an aoe stun if there is no grace period.  and I do think reave should give the same % of health and shields across the board for consistency sake.

[SneakyErvin]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

My original post makes him sound like he's garbage.  That wasn't my intent.  It was more of a rant/vent thread that had minor constructive criticism.  If you saw the edit you'll see my actual constructive feedback.  Anyway on to what you've said.  I don't believe Revenant has massive issues.  My impressions and what i've gotten from others is that he's just boring/average.  Like usually there is hype around a new WF release.  afaik I don't recall hearing many being hyped for him.  He's not bad.  But he feels held back/could be a lot better.

Visuals he looks too similar to Limbo.  Not that limbo looks bad.  I don't really get a sentient/vampiric feel from looking at him.  about the only time I do is with his glowy bits and how his body reacts to using certain abilities.  He colors nice.  He just doesn't look...interesting.

Shields don't mean much for the game.  Adding 6 extra thralls into the mix would not impact the overshields gained for anyone in a significant fashion at least as far as late game is concerned (where status procs are fairly common.)  And you're right that it's common to not have such a good 1.  But the problem is his 1 is thrall making.  Which his entire kit revolves around using.  So that's not a viable counter point imho.

Not sure how you could recast it during his 4 considering the kind of animation his 4 is.  I think you should be able to get more mesmer charges from reaving thralls.  Since you use reave a lot for movement during his 4 anyway.  I still think mesmer skin should have an aoe stun if there is no grace period.  and I do think reave should give the same % of health and shields across the board for consistency sake.

Shields dont mean much for most of the game no, but there are frames that make use of them very well thanks to skills and sentinel options. Revenant being one of them along with Volt, Mag and Harrow. And when we get to levels where their shields dont do much for them, the same can be said about health and armor, except in a few extreme cases like Rhino, Valkyr, Inaros and Nidus, to some extent Oberon aswell.

I think the main issue with Rev is that his 1 and 2 cant be used during Dance Macabre. As you say, thralls are a main point of his kit for synergy with other skills, but there really is no point in stopping in order to use Enthrall. The synergies arent all that importan either, it is all about shield/hp regen only. It is the same dilemma as Titania, skill 1, 2 and 3 are pointless to use on her during Razorwing. I guess the same can be said about Enthrall. Why stop dancing in order to debuff when your dance will wipe out the enemy anyways? It is far easier to simply Reave through the enemy to top off shields and HP instead of popping enthrall for an overshield pick up.

I think possibly they could change his #1 completely and add thralls as his passive. Enemies stunned by Mesmer Skin, hit by Reave or weapon attacks becomes enthralled, 10 mobs total. It would give a far more flowing gameplay. His #1 could be turned into a thrall detonator instead that does an AoE explosion at the location of each thrall and leaves behind the current hotspot. In addition to that, make it so thralls cant be harmed by friendly players, only Rev can kill them.

 

[Arcainyx]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

...10 mobs total...make it so thralls cant be harmed by friendly players, only Rev can kill them.

10 thralls that only Revenant can kill?  What would stop people from trolling with him?  He enthralls 10 targets and avoids them so other people on his squad can't interact with them?

[Sesaline]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure "feedback" may not have a strict meaning, it does however have a general accepted meaning among the majority of people on this planet no matter if you accept that or not. Hopefully the devs will share that common view on feedback aswell and not listen to people without first-hand experience with a frame (or piece of content for that matter).

"Subject yourself to the grind"? Even that is a false claim, there is no grind for him. It takes you maybe 2 hours to have every piece for him, he is simply that easy to get. Also, while you might have seen others play him, you still have no real idea of how he is, you dont know how well those players play him. I can agree that his #1 is poorly designed due to it impacting the gameplay due to the need to hunt down the thralls in things like defense missions..

I've seen plenty of people play certain frames and thought "man that frame must suck", then I've played them myself and found them to be great when built right..

I'm sure Revenant isnt perfect, but without first-hands testing people cant give proper feedback on what needs to be changed. As I mentioned earlier, people (console players) that didnt have the new Saryn yet complained about several things, weeks after those things had gotten fixed because they had read it somewhere or seen an old video. So second hand feedback really isnt viable many times.

Likely there will be fixes to Revenant in the next patch or the one after that, just like Khora had.

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

...or seen an old video. So second hand feedback really isnt viable many times.

Sure, there's a high chance that someone who doesn't know how to research properly will have skewed knowledge of whatever they are researching. I still see people bringing up older Saryn gameplay on current nerf-saryn posts. It happens. That still doesn't negate someone from forming a solid opinion with proper research under their belt. 

When you watch a video or a streamer, you usually see what mods the person uses and then some actual gameplay. People form opinions every day this way (in more than just video games) so idk why it's suddenly invalid to do so.. 

Also however much of a grind someone wants to endure for a specific thing is definitely opinion based. I don't know how you can say that is outright false. Maybe I hate the plains because of the host migration and bounty bugs. Maybe I don't enjoy the plains at all in the first place regardless of bugs. It's a grind to me in that regard. Definitely not one I would want to do for a frame that doesn't interest me at all. As a MR 16 I can list off a number of other things I'd rather invest my time in getting than Revenant.

Anyway, I do agree that playing him and actually testing builds yourself is the #1 way to figure out if you like a frame (or if the frame is good). I'm not disagreeing with you there. It's just not the only way. 

[Kothophed]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Enthrall feels a bit lackluster, but it is a #1 skill. Adding in more Thralls would have the posibility to turn his #4 into an overpowered skill due to the synergy between thralls and dance. Overshield orbs all over the place. However, having a lackluster #1 skill isnt uncommon. ky, cu

My issue here is that he was hyped as a general, commanding his Thralls.  Look at the devstreams, or any of the promotions for this update.  They all focus on the Thralls.  It's also, IMO, a more interesting centerpiece power than his 4.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Arcainyx said:

10 thralls that only Revenant can kill?  What would stop people from trolling with him?  He enthralls 10 targets and avoids them so other people on his squad can't interact with them?

How many trolling Nyx's do you encounter? Simply give them the exact same mechanic as Nyx's #1, problem solved. This would obviously need to have the detonator added to or be his new #1. That way either Rev can decide to end them or they get ended when the duration runs out.

13 hours ago, Sesaline said:

Sure, there's a high chance that someone who doesn't know how to research properly will have skewed knowledge of whatever they are researching. I still see people bringing up older Saryn gameplay on current nerf-saryn posts. It happens. That still doesn't negate someone from forming a solid opinion with proper research under their belt. 

When you watch a video or a streamer, you usually see what mods the person uses and then some actual gameplay. People form opinions every day this way (in more than just video games) so idk why it's suddenly invalid to do so.. 

Also however much of a grind someone wants to endure for a specific thing is definitely opinion based. I don't know how you can say that is outright false. Maybe I hate the plains because of the host migration and bounty bugs. Maybe I don't enjoy the plains at all in the first place regardless of bugs. It's a grind to me in that regard. Definitely not one I would want to do for a frame that doesn't interest me at all. As a MR 16 I can list off a number of other things I'd rather invest my time in getting than Revenant.

Anyway, I do agree that playing him and actually testing builds yourself is the #1 way to figure out if you like a frame (or if the frame is good). I'm not disagreeing with you there. It's just not the only way. 

I agree, you can form opinions without first hand experience, that is all fine in my book. However, you cant give proper feedback based on second hand info. This isnt a specific Warframe issue, this is part of all games. Several Heroes in Marvel Heroes got the same "feedback" by players that didnt own them yet, many times it was off by a longshot. The same old excuses were there too "I have alot of experience with the game or X hero so I know what I'm talking about without having to play it". Angela and Carnage were prime examples, Angela being "just another bruiser that is undertuned" and Carnage being "a Venom copy". Both of them were top tier heroes in the game on so many different levels, far from what they were said to be by people with no actual experience.

And yeah I guess the grind can be of a personal opinion. If you dont like PoE it will be bad from that PoV, but the grind in itself isnt very time consuming compared to other frames. 2h and all parts is as fast as it can get.

12 hours ago, Kothophed said:

My issue here is that he was hyped as a general, commanding his Thralls.  Look at the devstreams, or any of the promotions for this update.  They all focus on the Thralls.  It's also, IMO, a more interesting centerpiece power than his 4.

I agree the thralls should have been made in a better way to properly fit the kit. It is the one skill in his kit that feels out of place even though it should have been the "key" skill. The current synergy with Enthrall is kinda pointless. There just isnt a reason to use his #1 after you hit level 10, barely before that either.

[birdobash]

On 2018-08-26 at 7:46 PM, -QUILL_PETER- said:

You don't even have Revenant yet, you have absolutely no right to complain about something you haven't even used. You're just jumping on the meta-complaint train.

The fact that there even is a meta-complaint train means theres something uberly wrong, also you my sir are jumping on the "no rights if haven't played" train.

Its very clear to see that revenant was not good in his 1st iteration, nor his current iteration. All his synergies revolved around his thralls and keeping them alive or killing them with your own abilities, which happens to be impossible in pubs and the synergies aren't even worth it in solo.

Speaking of synergies:

Mesmer skin stuns enemies to enthrall for no cost? Cmon now, you're not going to have time or want to waste time casting enthrall (which btw has the longest cast time ever) to notice a mesmer stunned enemy and then cast enthrall on them. 

Reave steals health and shields from enemies, 40% of total on enthralled enemies. Would be decent synergy, if enthrall could physically spread to more enemies, and if it didn't cost 75 freaking energy to do one time, even at maxed efficiency its not worth it that much.

Danse macabre that kills enthralled enemies drops overshield pickups. Why a pickup? And why overshields? Shields could possibly be one of the worst synergies in his entire kit. At least with harrow his 1 is quick and ez, extremely good CC and gives tons of overshields, and actually synergizes with another ability of his. Overshields are basically useless for revenant as the only thing it benefits is his pretty terrible passive.

[Marvelous_A]

He's 4th is utterly boring as a plain damage ability. Rest of his abilities are OK-ish except his 3rd needs faster casting speed and lower energy cost. His 4th has poor vertical hitbox and he dies too fast for it to be useful at all on high level too. His 3rd cost 20 energy even with max efficiency which is too high IMO considering it's just a self-healing tidal surge and Revenant has small energy pool. Pretty impractical to move fast with it while casting 4th.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[Chronometria]

I`m currently more excited for the Nezha rework than I am for this frame. Much more thought needs to go into the new frames and I hope Garuda, the next frame, is not going to suffer from the same problems.

[Autongnosis]

Le 27/08/2018 à 02:50, (XB1)Knight Raime a dit :

  I've seen exactly what he does and know what his kit is capable of.  I'm aware that having hands on experience with something is important and I don't discount that.  But throwing my opinion away entirely over the simple fact that I haven't yet touched him is just lazy.  I've made a thread about frames in the past when they've been reworked or if they're new.  And typically my opinion seems to align with people who actually know what the heck they're talking about.  So it's not like I am pulling my stuff out of no where.  it's completely founded.

If you actually disagree with anything i've stated (or found anything factually incorrect) you should give counter arguments.  Don't be a lazy bum.

The one thing i disagree with in your disamina is Mesmer Skin. While on the outlook i was inclined to agree, in practice in gameplay scenario Mesmer Skin works really well as a defensive ability, put in the context of a frame that can do AoE clear really fast at all playing levels (up to sortie 3) and has an on demand get out of jail for free skill, as Reave gives you invulnerability and great mobility. 

That said, imo the problem with him is that the thrall mechanic doesn't interact properly with his kit. 

He deals AoE damage and kills his own thralls faster than they can propagate. Moreover on death they do a damage pillar, which spawns on their dead body where probably everyone is dead. And ot leaves overshield pickups if killed by his 4th? You wat. 

And increasing the thrall cap is not going to do anything good. It could be 500k and it still won't be a useful mechanic. It basically needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I mean, it's basically Nyx Mind Control sans the invulnerability which means they are 100% useless. 

Now of Enthrall worked like Psychic Bolts, then THAT would be interesting. We need to be able to spawm thralls faster to even use them. 

If they can fix the thralls and hinge meaningful interactions on them then Revenant will be a great frame. 

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, birdobash said:

The fact that there even is a meta-complaint train means theres something uberly wrong, also you my sir are jumping on the "no rights if haven't played" train.

Its very clear to see that revenant was not good in his 1st iteration, nor his current iteration. All his synergies revolved around his thralls and keeping them alive or killing them with your own abilities, which happens to be impossible in pubs and the synergies aren't even worth it in solo.

Speaking of synergies:

Mesmer skin stuns enemies to enthrall for no cost? Cmon now, you're not going to have time or want to waste time casting enthrall (which btw has the longest cast time ever) to notice a mesmer stunned enemy and then cast enthrall on them. 

Reave steals health and shields from enemies, 40% of total on enthralled enemies. Would be decent synergy, if enthrall could physically spread to more enemies, and if it didn't cost 75 freaking energy to do one time, even at maxed efficiency its not worth it that much.

Danse macabre that kills enthralled enemies drops overshield pickups. Why a pickup? And why overshields? Shields could possibly be one of the worst synergies in his entire kit. At least with harrow his 1 is quick and ez, extremely good CC and gives tons of overshields, and actually synergizes with another ability of his. Overshields are basically useless for revenant as the only thing it benefits is his pretty terrible passive.

His synergies are pointless and could very well be changed, outside of that he is in a really good spot. The synergies simply do nothing for him since his shields and hp very rarely get hit, so reave is kinda only useful for getting around, at 20 energy per use that is all ok during danse. Personally I've dropped his ranged stat and only use enthrall in extremely sticky close quarter situations. Rest of the focus is on strength, efficiency and keeping duration above 100% for a good stun duration on mesmer skin.

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

He's 4th is utterly boring as a plain damage ability. Rest of his abilities are OK-ish except his 3rd needs faster casting speed and lower energy cost. His 4th has poor vertical hitbox and he dies too fast for it to be useful at all on high level too. His 3rd cost 20 energy even with max efficiency which is too high IMO considering it's just a self-healing tidal surge and Revenant has small energy pool. Pretty impractical to move fast with it while casting 4th.

I'm curious what you label as "high level" since I've done pretty much everything with him except absurd pointless endless missions and there isnt a place where he dies or even takes any real damage.

[zombiedeadhead]

Have given this frame another try, and find him still in an odd place. Surprisingly tanky, as long as you don't charge into groups and waste your 2, and the 2/1 synergise very well. His 4 does decnt damage, no more, but feels totally removed from anything else about the frame. It's an oddity.

Thralls i use almost entirely as adjuncts to mesmer, as cc/tanking abilty. Stun, free entrall, stand back etc etc. The issue ius, the 'energy pillars' are totally useless. Who needs damage wher you have killed something? My siggestiuon, and it would make a synergy with his 4, as well as some kind of team buff, is for energy pillars to be just that, dead thralls leave a pillar of energy pickups.

[Asphyxiants]

His thralls can be good if you enthrall a tough enemy. I often like to enthrall a box and have him create others/pillars all over whilst surviving a while. 

[Erytroxylin]

Visuals are opinion. I love his visuals. Pls no change.

[Marvelous_A]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm curious what you label as "high level" since I've done pretty much everything with him except absurd pointless endless missions and there isnt a place where he dies or even takes any real damage.

He won't die if you don't use his 4th. But then what's the point of having an ultimate that you don't use? His ultimate is just not practical even for sortie 3 level missions.

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

He won't die if you don't use his 4th. But then what's the point of having an ultimate that you don't use? His ultimate is just not practical even for sortie 3 level missions.

He doesnt die when you use his 4 either. It works great in sortie 3 missions, you just need to manage your mesmer skin which keeps you alive. Pretty much the same for all frames, dont manage their survival tools and you die.

[Marvelous_A]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

He doesnt die when you use his 4 either. It works great in sortie 3 missions, you just need to manage your mesmer skin which keeps you alive. Pretty much the same for all frames, dont manage their survival tools and you die.

If you manage your mesmer skin well you don't need his 4th at all. Actually if you use his 123 so well his 4th is complete redundant as a pure damage skill. Out of other 3 skills his 1st and 2nd need constant refreshing to work and for some design consideration you are not allowed to cast 1st and 2nd while channeling 4 and your 4th damages your minions from 1st ability. His 2nd is charge based not duration based and your 4th offers no CC so your 2nd will consume as fast as it normally is. This ultimate is full of contradiction in fundamentals and has next to no reason to exist in his kit IMO.

I've always been saying this since release of Revenant that I thought a pure damage ultimate is the last thing DE will add to a new warframe. On top of that it's not even that powerful and efficient as a nuke ability. It has virtually no synergy with any other of his ability also unless you gonna count the overshield in which I can easily get more with a shield pizza.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[NocheLuz]

On 2018-08-30 at 2:55 AM, Arcainyx said:

10 thralls that only Revenant can kill?  What would stop people from trolling with him?  He enthralls 10 targets and avoids them so other people on his squad can't interact with them?

I've play him today and have him Entralls a group of enemies. Surprisingly, Entralls enemies do not count toward defense wave. Meaning that if there are 1 enemy left in the wave and Revenant Entrall them. It'll automatically move to next wave without killing it. I don't know if Nyx's mind control also have this trait.

But Entralls enemies will count as Allies and will not be damage by some of Warframe ability. As Far as I know, Saryn's Spore do not damage or spread to them. But I also in the same squard with Banshee who use Resonating Quake (Sound Quake). And I think the Thralls also did not knockdown or receive any damage from Banshee. But I'm not sure about it. Maybe it'll need some verification.

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, Chronometria said:

I`m currently more excited for the Nezha rework than I am for this frame. Much more thought needs to go into the new frames and I hope Garuda, the next frame, is not going to suffer from the same problems.

Well both Garuda and the Nezha rework are being spearheaded by DEPablo, who has shown that he actually understands the metagame and how to make frames come off as interesting with meaningful synergies and passives that match how the frame works.

While I may be jumping the gun and I have disagreed with 1 of Pablo's decisions so far I'm pretty sure Garuda is in good hands and will likely end up showing the difference between a frame that was well thought out and Revenant.

 

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, Asphyxiants a dit :

His thralls can be good if you enthrall a tough enemy. I often like to enthrall a box and have him create others/pillars all over whilst surviving a while. 

The problem with that is that even a Sortie level Nox has a kill time measured in a couple of seconds... You can do all ypu want and it still won't really matter, they'll not stay alive unless you're soloing. 

il y a 30 minutes, Marvelous_A a dit :

He won't die if you don't use his 4th. But then what's the point of having an ultimate that you don't use? His ultimate is just not practical even for sortie 3 level missions.

That's quite simply not true. 

il y a 5 minutes, NocheLuz a dit :

I've play him today and have him Entralls a group of enemies. Surprisingly, Entralls enemies do not count toward defense wave. Meaning that if there are 1 enemy left in the wave and Revenant Entrall them. It'll automatically move to next wave without killing it. I don't know if Nyx's mind control also have this trait.

But Entralls enemies will count as Allies and will not be damage by some of Warframe ability. As Far as I know, Saryn's Spore do not damage or spread to them. But I also in the same squard with Banshee who use Resonating Quake (Sound Quake). And I think the Thralls also did not knockdown or receive any damage from Banshee. But I'm not sure about it. Maybe it'll need some verification.

That's a very good reason to make them invupnerable to allied damage and move the sinergies to something other than killing them tbh. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

If you manage your mesmer skin well you don't need his 4th at all. Actually if you use his 123 so well his 4th is complete redundant as a pure damage skill. Out of other 3 skills his 1st and 2nd need constant refreshing to work and for some design consideration you are not allowed to cast 1st and 2nd while channeling 4 and your 4th damages your minions from 1st ability. His 2nd is charge based not duration based and your 4th offers no CC so your 2nd will consume as fast as it normally is. This ultimate is full of contradiction in fundamentals and has next to no reason to exist in his kit IMO.

I've always been saying this since release of Revenant that I thought a pure damage ultimate is the last thing DE will add to a new warframe. On top of that it's not even that powerful and efficient as a nuke ability. It has virtually no synergy with any other of his ability also unless you gonna count the overshield in which I can easily get more with a shield pizza.

That just doesnt make any sense at all. His #2 and 4 sync very well together, that still doesnt mean you need to stay in #4 at all times. I use it as a massive AoE clear skill as needed while focusing on weapon play in between. I'm not sure what you mean by his 2 needing constant refreshing. I had to refresh mine every 5-6 minutes when I had 12 stacks on it, now with 15 I can stretch it out to the 8 minute mark in the same densely populated missions. And I run a very up close and person style on him with an Ignis Wraith or Phantasma along with Pyrana and Tonbo.

I agree the synergies are trash, meaning less use of enthrall. Which is fine for me since it lets me ignore the ranged stat and have high strength, maxed efficiency and long lasting stuns from mesmer skin. I throw in an enthrall at times when I in the thick of it meleeing or burning stuff to crisp, it is also useful to drop one on ancients from time to time.

The thing is, when you build for his #4 you passively build for your 2 and 3 aswell. Strength for his #4 carries over into charges on his #2 while cost reduction makes his #3 a useful A-B skill while in danse. #3 will be more useful after the coming changes where it will get i-Frames tied to it.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 4 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

#3 will be more useful after the coming changes where it will get i-Frames tied to it.

Which coming changes? O.o