Revenant is a damned mess.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I am actually livid DE.  Yes.  this is a vent thread.  yes this is a feedback thread.  I've actually never disliked a frames design before so this is a first for me.  So lets just get in to this.

Concept/visuals clash:  I'm sure DE loves hearing this.  The recent complaints about it with Khora and we can't forget Oberon.  When I stare at Revenant I do not get the feeling of looking at a sentient effected warframe.  To me it more looks like someone took an ice cream scoop and spooned out Limbo's entire spin section before stepping on him to give a slight flattened look.  And because he was stepped on his rave like insides are now seeping out on his front.  He's visually boring except for the rave noodels.  Much Like Gara is boring without her glass armor.

Nothing about his looks is really vampyr esque either.  The only sentient presence is in his 4th ability.  The rest is vampyric.  But that's not even the worst part.  DE already had a vampire like frame with inaros.  except inaros focused more on the feeding aspects and the coffin.  I'm not really upset that there is a repeat in theme here.  More so that it was just done better ability wise on inaros.  But we'll get to that next.  Regardless.  Visually and thematically the execution is abysmal.

 

Revenant's core issue:  Is thralls.  His entire kit revolves around making them and surviving from them.  But it's all done poorly.  We will go step by step with each ability here.  But even if we manage to make those all better the core issue remains that thralls or friendly AI controlled units are bad for anything besides taking damage for you.  Should his abilities be fixed I can personally get over this.  But it was worth noting.

 

Passive:  When shields depletes he emits a radial blast wave that knocks down enemies.

Is fine.  but it doesn't feel consistent.  Sometimes enemies just seem to ignore the stun due to an animation.  Or in the case of ancients they're immune to it.

Enthrall:  Okay.  So even though this is better than Nyx's mind control in some aspects it's still bad.  Firstly we're capped at 4 enemies.  Freaking 4.  Allies and yourself can hurt and kill the thralls.  Which would be A O Kay if we could have more.  But nope.  Only 4.  Maybe 20 would be insane because that's 80 enemies under your parties control if the whole team is Revenant.  But.  You sure as hell picked the wrong time to worry about same frame interaction DE.  Because you've never cared in the past.  I don't accept it being a performance issue either.  They spent a long time optimizing this game recently.  I don't need 20 enemies.  But at least give us 10.

Energy pillars do terrible damage.  If his abilities are supposed to be supportive of him or allies why not make the pillars do something like healing people standing in it?  Or maybe boost damage? just damage doesn't cut it in warframe 90% of the time.  Oh.  Also.  You can Enthrall bosses.  How this passed QA is beyond me.

 

Mesmer skin:  Is a half decent ability.  But it's poor in terms of defense and I for the life of me don't understand how DE didn't see this coming.  There is no grace period when a target procs your skin.  Meaning all of my charges can be burned right after I activate them.  Inaro's scarab swarm augment has a grace period.  Defy has a grace period.  I don't understand why this ability doesn't.  It's visually obnoxious with the smoke effect.  I should not have that much smoke on the screen.  But this just goes with the whole issue of Revenant visually.  Which I will touch on at the end.  It's synergy with Enthrall is nice.  But too freaking bad Thralls suck.

 

Reave:  Mother of freaking pearl.  You're asking me to spend 75 energy AT BASE for a hydroid title wave?  REALLY?  the 40% steal only works on enthralled enemies.  It's not worth using on non enthralled enemies.  Forced synergy is annoying.  How often am I going to pass through thralls with just 4 on the field at any time?  That my allies can map nuke?  Like.  WHY.  You can also only obtain shields from enemies who have them.  Considering his passive relies on having shields this is disgustingly bad.  Base energy cost needs to be changed.  The % of steal and shields should be the same across all enemies for consistency sake.  Choose a different synergy for using on enthralled enemies.  Like I dunno.  Gain some mesmer skin charges.  Or perhaps auto enthrall targets with the ability.  just pick something better.

 

Danse Macabre:  His one good ability.  and a damage ability.  Which is surprising.  Honestly I hate it visually.  It looks like a damned meme that a low level dev would show to their boss to get a good laugh but the boss was like "screw it we're going to ship it anyway."  The synergy here is half decent.  But shields don't mean much in warframe.  pick something else.  It's also a meme in that Maiming strike was "spin to win" and that was nerfed to the ground.  But they decided to make it an ability instead.  just.  whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Visual clutter:  My last complaint.  Every single damned ability he uses is visually noisy.  When it's just you and you're dealing with the games normal visual clutter it's awful.  But it's just on you.  Get other Revenants in the mission?  Now you're basically forcing seziures on people.  I honestly don't understand how DE could pass this frame off from QA.  it's messy everywhere.  it's poorly done.  he's not even a good frame ability wise.  at least Gara and khora work well.  All we have with Revenant is an aggressively average fidget spinner that does the damage and is mildly terrified of anything it don't nuke.  And said fidget spinner might actually cause epileptic fits because of the vomit rainbow it throws out.

UGH.  Rant over.

 

EDIT:  So it's been a bit since i've made this post and i've calmed down quite a bit.  I'm not going to take back anything I said or edit it out.  As I still feel this way about him overall and don't believe in hiding mistakes.  However I wanted to take the time to admit that the post wasn't as constructive as my threads usually are.  And that because of that this thread isn't up to my standards and I apologize.  Also if any further replies are made about "you didn't play so shoosh" shows up i'm just going to ignore.  As I don't want to go off topic any further than I already have with some posters.  I'm going to end this edit with a list of changes i'd recommend to change Revenant with before he comes to console.  Hopefully any further discussion in this thread is about my suggestions and not my poor attitude or other off topic things:

 

~Reduce visual clutter and fix inconsistencies with passive.

~Increase thrall amount from 4 to 10.

~Increase casting speed on all abilities.

~The pillars that are dropped from killing thralled enemies can heal allies/Revenant for a set amount.

~With Mesmer skin either give a small grace period where he's immune to damage everytime a charge is consumed or have a set area of effect around a stunned target that will also stun enemies in said AoE.

~Reave now steals 40% of health and shields by default regardless of enemy type or if they're thralled or not.  Reaving a thralled target now gives back mesmer charges.  Reduce the base cost of Reave from 75 energy to 40-50.

~picking up the drops from killed thralls via his ultimate now gives Revnant and allies a bit of energy in addition to the shields.

~Let Revnant's beams pass through Volts shield.

~Can no longer thrall bosses.

Edited August 28, 2018 by (XB1)Knight Raime

[Oreades]

Might want to post that here 

 

[Loza03]

A lot of the stuff you've said here is pretty good, but I'd just like to bring up this extract:

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Visual clutter:  My last complaint.  Every single damned ability he uses is visually noisy.  When it's just you and you're dealing with the games normal visual clutter it's awful.  But it's just on you.  Get other Revenants in the mission?  Now you're basically forcing seziures on people.  I honestly don't understand how DE could pass this frame off from QA.  it's messy everywhere.  it's poorly done.  he's not even a good frame ability wise.  at least Gara and khora work well.  All we have with Revenant is an aggressively average fidget spinner that does the damage and is mildly terrified of anything it don't nuke.  And said fidget spinner might actually cause epileptic fits because of the vomit rainbow it throws out.

As problematic as this is, it's probably one of his most 'Eidolon' aspects. Their whole gimmick is firing stuff everywhere, so Revenant doing something like that makes sense, for better or worse.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

You don't even have Revenant yet, you have absolutely no right to complain about something you haven't even used. You're just jumping on the meta-complaint train.

[ColPresumptuous]

I like him... his design visually and audio is nice (his 4 needs more Eidolon whale noises though), sure his 1 needs to have double the number of thralls to be useful, his 2 should be a little more meaty and visually it needs to be ALOT larger like it was in the vids we saw of him before release, my Revenants eidolon shoulders are barely visible after using his 2.

As for visual clutter... only his ult does that and its hardly bad, all his other abilities are almost impossible to see even when you playing AS Revenant.

Strength wise he's fine and can contribute well (i even held my own dmg wise against a sun form equinox in one mission),and he can get himself a nice overshield buffer (and if they cant already make his overshield drops team useable, which would justify the increase of the thrall numbers (and make his dmg wells from his 1 work better). He just needs more thralls (say 10, half of what he was gonna originally have) and make his 2 be more effective defense wise for the Revenant himself, redo his 3 and 2's visual effect and hes done.

[o0Despair0o]

I stopped caring about him when they first showed the artwork because... PILLAR HEAD. WHY. As if Mohawks weren't ugly enough.

 

And then the "quest", it's locked to Night cycles, it's RNG as hell since you need to play bounties AND it's behind a faction reputation-wall. Not to mention that the Operator mask is ugly as sin.

 

Honestly, if they're gonna screw up Garuda like this as well, I'm going to write one hell of an angry e-mail. WITHOUT SMILEYS.

[S.Dust]

39 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

A lot of the stuff you've said here is pretty good, but I'd just like to bring up this extract:

As problematic as this is, it's probably one of his most 'Eidolon' aspects. Their whole gimmick is firing stuff everywhere, so Revenant doing something like that makes sense, for better or worse.

Ignoring the frame itself i cant say i havent complained about the lack of a warning on the eidolon fights when i first went it alot of wtf was thrown out.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

I stopped caring about him when they first showed the artwork because... PILLAR HEAD. WHY. As if Mohawks weren't ugly enough.

 

And then the "quest", it's locked to Night cycles, it's RNG as hell since you need to play bounties AND it's behind a faction reputation-wall. Not to mention that the Operator mask is ugly as sin.

 

Honestly, if they're gonna screw up Garuda like this as well, I'm going to write one hell of an angry e-mail. WITHOUT SMILEYS.

The only part I really hate is the fact that the progression is tied to a full Warframe grind right off the bat.

That's all sorts of wrong. If you want the Warframe parts to be a part of the quest, well then, have them given out, otherwise save the grind as something optional after the fact. Tying how long a break in a quest will be to reward RNG absolutely kills the pacing, cremates it, turns the ashes into glass and then breaks the glass. At least Inaros's quest lets you focus in on what your looking for and have a pretty much guaranteed chance to find them if you know how...

Night cycles and reputation wall? Eh. Night cycles make thematic sense and the reputation wall is to encourage newer players to get into Eidolon hunting and find out about the rewards that gives, and in turn incentivise figuring out how to beat the Spiders in Orb Vallis once Fortuna drops.

 

Also, sure the mask is on par with her other creations in terms of looks, but it has a nice effect where you see little Eidolon energy wisps wherever you go when you've equipped it and are using Operator mode. That's neat at least.

[Kyoresh]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Maiming strike was "spin to win" and that was nerfed to the ground.

wait wait wait...did I miss something?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

59 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

UGH.  Rant over.

he's not even on consoles yet. for all we know he could be a completely different frame by the time console gets him; Khora was changed, Gara was Changed, Revenant will be just the same, there's still plenty time to tweak him before our next update. cool your jets and if it bothers you that much, don't use him.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

Might want to post that here 

 

Would have but they encourage people to give their feedback after they've played with him.  Which i've not because i'm on console.  I believe my opinion has merit but idk if DE would want me posting my feedback in there because of that.

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

A lot of the stuff you've said here is pretty good, but I'd just like to bring up this extract:

As problematic as this is, it's probably one of his most 'Eidolon' aspects. Their whole gimmick is firing stuff everywhere, so Revenant doing something like that makes sense, for better or worse.

Yeah it does.  I just wish they did better with the theme.  I'm usually not one to gripe about that though.  I more care for the gameplay.  And his gameplay is not great.

59 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

You don't even have Revenant yet, you have absolutely no right to complain about something you haven't even used. You're just jumping on the meta-complaint train.

Gating is a disgusting thing to do and you shouldn't ever do it.  I've been around since abilities were cards you had to equip.  I've seen exactly what he does and know what his kit is capable of.  I'm aware that having hands on experience with something is important and I don't discount that.  But throwing my opinion away entirely over the simple fact that I haven't yet touched him is just lazy.  I've made a thread about frames in the past when they've been reworked or if they're new.  And typically my opinion seems to align with people who actually know what the heck they're talking about.  So it's not like I am pulling my stuff out of no where.  it's completely founded.

If you actually disagree with anything i've stated (or found anything factually incorrect) you should give counter arguments.  Don't be a lazy bum.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

54 minutes ago, ColPresumptuous said:

I like him... his design visually and audio is nice (his 4 needs more Eidolon whale noises though), sure his 1 needs to have double the number of thralls to be useful, his 2 should be a little more meaty and visually it needs to be ALOT larger like it was in the vids we saw of him before release, my Revenants eidolon shoulders are barely visible after using his 2.

As for visual clutter... only his ult does that and its hardly bad, all his other abilities are almost impossible to see even when you playing AS Revenant.

Strength wise he's fine and can contribute well (i even held my own dmg wise against a sun form equinox in one mission),and he can get himself a nice overshield buffer (and if they cant already make his overshield drops team useable, which would justify the increase of the thrall numbers (and make his dmg wells from his 1 work better). He just needs more thralls (say 10, half of what he was gonna originally have) and make his 2 be more effective defense wise for the Revenant himself, redo his 3 and 2's visual effect and hes done.

It's not like his kit functionally is awful.  It's just very very average.  it's underwhelming.  idk about other players but I need to be wowed by what a frame does in order to be interested in them.  Like with Khora her wow factor for me was strangle dome turning caught enemies into aggro machines.  For Gara it was her massive wall that you can shape by jumping high.  etc.  Nothing about Revenant wows me.  I would have easily picked him up for the thrall mechanic alone if it actually worked well.  but it's synergy imo is not up to snuff.

40 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

I stopped caring about him when they first showed the artwork because... PILLAR HEAD. WHY. As if Mohawks weren't ugly enough.

 

And then the "quest", it's locked to Night cycles, it's RNG as hell since you need to play bounties AND it's behind a faction reputation-wall. Not to mention that the Operator mask is ugly as sin.

 

Honestly, if they're gonna screw up Garuda like this as well, I'm going to write one hell of an angry e-mail. WITHOUT SMILEYS.

I didn't even bother commenting on how to obtain him because other people outline it much better.  But yes.  100% buying with plat when he drops.  Did the same with Khora.

26 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

wait wait wait...did I miss something?

afaik meme strike was getting nerfed in the damage department and the fact that you can't melee through walls anymore.  Unless they haven't yet put those changes out.

25 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

he's not even on consoles yet. for all we know he could be a completely different frame by the time console gets him; Khora was changed, Gara was Changed, Revenant will be just the same, there's still plenty time to tweak him before our next update. cool your jets and if it bothers you that much, don't use him.

I gave my feedback on other frame releases and reworks in order to help shape the frame.  Granted this is more of a rant than a constructive feedback post.  And I do apologize for that.  I've just never been this disappointed in DE before when it comes to something they made.  Perhaps it is my fault for placing them on a pedistal.

[Kyoresh]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

afaik meme strike was getting nerfed in the damage department

no one from DE said that, just some people assumed that and cried out loud ^^

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

8 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

no one from DE said that, just some people assumed that and cried out loud ^^

I know the whole thing about not being able to melee through walls is a change they were absolutely making though.

[ColPresumptuous]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

It's not like his kit functionally is awful.  It's just very very average.  it's underwhelming.  idk about other players but I need to be wowed by what a frame does in order to be interested in them.  Like with Khora her wow factor for me was strangle dome turning caught enemies into aggro machines.  For Gara it was her massive wall that you can shape by jumping high.  etc.  Nothing about Revenant wows me.  I would have easily picked him up for the thrall mechanic alone if it actually worked well.  but it's synergy imo is not up to snuff.

I mean to me, not awful is fine, people often talk and complain about power creep in the game, yet when a Frame comes out that isnt the next big thing they complain like its a terrible thing (not saying you are, just posts ive seen the last few weeks here and there).

 

Cant have your cake and eat it too, id rather a fun frame thats average and can get better in the future, than a godly frame that becomes the new must have and teams are 4x that one frame and then suddenly they get nerfed, either reasonably or to hard.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ColPresumptuous

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

afaik meme strike was getting nerfed in the damage department and the fact that you can't melee through walls anymore.  Unless they haven't yet put those changes out.

That change has been put in and that didn’t affect Maiming Strike. It only affected Melee Cheese to where you have to go where the enemies are to Spin2Win them.

Edited August 27, 2018 by VPrime96

[Talinthis]

Revenants 4 is so annoying with a bright color. It just forever flashes all over your screen. Only ability I actually hate after seeing it out of every warframe ever.

[Flamingauss]

I'm with OP on this one...Revenanat is a pretty lack luster frame, as far as abilities go. His armor bundle works really well tho, I like his looks and his alt helm is nice. BUt yeah gameplay, he's not fun.

[K1ngR1chard]

I usually play this game when im tired, so if there is that much visual clutter, he obviously needs a fix

[Kronxito]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Enthrall:  Okay.  So even though this is better than Nyx's mind control in some aspects it's still bad.  Firstly we're capped at 4 enemies.  Freaking 4. 

I would say this is because of consoles' hardware are not as strong as PC.  If they allow more mind controlled enemies, consoles' hardware would cry causing players to get fps drops.

Imagine a 4 revenants squad in console with unlimited mind controlled enemies....

Edited August 27, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[(PSN)ZeusDeOGod]

i feel i got smell of platinum...

 

ugly frame alway have deluxe skin look cool

[KiJokoBodo]

DE gotta have those platinum purchase yo 😂 .

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Is already on Xbox 1?

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

2 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

I would say this is because of consoles' hardware are not as strong as PC.  If they allow more mind controlled enemies, consoles' hardware would cry causing players to get fps drops.

Imagine a 4 revenants squad in console with unlimited mind controlled enemies....

Nekros.

 

I've had roaming armies before with 4 Nekros players at once. An equal number of Enthralled enemies would actually be an improvement because they could be killed off when in the way.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

11 hours ago, ColPresumptuous said:

I mean to me, not awful is fine, people often talk and complain about power creep in the game, yet when a Frame comes out that isnt the next big thing they complain like its a terrible thing (not saying you are, just posts ive seen the last few weeks here and there).

 

Cant have your cake and eat it too, id rather a fun frame thats average and can get better in the future, than a godly frame that becomes the new must have and teams are 4x that one frame and then suddenly they get nerfed, either reasonably or to hard.

I feel you.  I'm not asking for a new OP frame.  Khora isn't.  But I love her.  His frame could feel a lot better if he had more thralls to work with.  It wouldn't solve all my issues but it would be the easiest fix for DE imo.

11 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

That change has been put in and that didn’t affect Maiming Strike. It only affected Melee Cheese to where you have to go where the enemies are to Spin2Win them.

Thx for clarification.

9 hours ago, K1ngR1chard said:

I usually play this game when im tired, so if there is that much visual clutter, he obviously needs a fix

imo it's a lot.  But apparently my complaint about his smoke and ability cast visuals are not in the norm here.  His 4 is absolutely vomit enducing visual clutter wise.

5 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

I would say this is because of consoles' hardware are not as strong as PC.  If they allow more mind controlled enemies, consoles' hardware would cry causing players to get fps drops.

Imagine a 4 revenants squad in console with unlimited mind controlled enemies....

But nekros shadows.

5 hours ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

Is already on Xbox 1?

No.  But this is not the first time my views align with people who have the new rework/frame on pc.  And as always I post to try to help improve the frame/rework.  Though this post is out of the norm being more of a rant than constructive feedback.