Make warframe balanced!

[Unholy_Ghost]

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

What if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

[Elyndr]

What if everyone just stops playing? Cause that is what would happen with those changes.

[Unholy_Ghost]

Just now, Elyndr said:

What if everyone just stops playing? Cause that is what would happen with those changes.

Why?

[peterc3]

No to cooldowns. No to arbitrary changes to already arbitrary numbers.

8 minutes ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

This on its own is a 14-18 point reduction in available mod energy.

9 minutes ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

Infinite CC available to players, now with no threat to maintaining that absolute control of enemies.

10 minutes ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

 What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

No reason to ever run anything but short missions and anything longer now has a myopic player base intent on getting whatever the new reward scheme gives you as fast as possible, increasing toxic garbage by NaN%. There is no potential for this.

[07Slevin]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Unholy_Ghost:

What if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.What if we also remove auras and make them passives to

ok first on this point:  The devs says so many times they want so balance the game WITHOUT any cooldowns.

 

second: with all this changes you have a completely different game!

third:  why should the devs do this? what is better and more balanced than?

[Ozamchist]

Its stuff like this that makes me raise my eyebrow suspiciously at every warframe player including myself.

[Atsia]

I hope OP is kidding, cause this is honestly one of the WORST ideas I've seen posted.

[Unholy_Ghost]

Ok, then lets leave warframe as it is right now 🙂

[nerfinator6]

17 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

What if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

Congratz, you just killed a game with a 30million+ playerbase.

[5H4DE]

18 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

Not a chance, the reason those mods aren't equal is because the stats they affect are different and behave in a different way from each other.

18 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

 

Take away build diversity and force us on specific frames for specific benefits? No

18 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.

 

I like the efficiency based system more thank you very much

18 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

No

18 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

And pray tell how do we earn those mods after that?Are you going to put them all on rotations? We got hundreds upon hundreds of mods, you seriously want to add all that to rotations alongisde relics and other rewards?

 

I'm sorry if I come out as a jerk on this but your post is a complete joke.

[Gnlstorm]

Warframe is a very Grindy game if warframe change to what u mention the fun will gone... Why warframe is popular even the game is so Grindy? It because of the fun 

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

You really don't seem to understand the appeal of Warframe. 

[Teridax68]

I have some serious mixed feelings about this post. Many players have given some pretty extreme, and ultimately not very helpful feedback, so here's my own take, with some more explanation:

On 2018-09-08 at 11:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

I can agree that certain mods definitely add too much raw power without providing much in the way of gameplay. I don't know if reducing any bonus to a maximum of 50% would be the way to go, but I'd definitely agree to a stat squish across the game.

On 2018-09-08 at 11:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.

This I really would not want. Personally, I'd actually be okay with cooldowns on some abilities, but they'd have to be much shorter than 10 seconds on a standard ability, and while I do think 4 abilities need some sort of gating or downtime besides energy (which isn't a real gate at this point), I think a long cooldown would be the worst way to go, as it risks encouraging prolonged inactivity. I think the better solution to the latter could be to add a charge meter to certain 4 abilities in the style of Overwatch, so that these abilities have their own personal energy reserves that can only be replenished by actively engaging in combat.

On 2018-09-08 at 11:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

I agree that auras don't really add much gameplay, and would be perfectly okay with getting rid of them. Of course, this would mean rebalancing mod drains, and could perhaps mean that some of the more interesting effects could be ported to warframe or weapon mods, but overall I think it would still be fine.

On 2018-09-08 at 11:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

This sounds like a call to make enemies scale harder, which I wouldn't want. I also think that, if we're changing enemy scaling, we should change the way the Grineer scale, because increasing both their armor and health at the same time causes their durability to increase quadratically, on top of the scaling everyone else benefits from. I'd actually also be in favor of removing eximus units, though mainly because I think miniboss units deserve to be better integrated into different factions (Infested should have no particularly strong units, but Grineer should have powerful squad leaders, and every Corpus unit should be a miniboss of its own, imo).

On 2018-09-08 at 11:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

This sounds intriguing, but then it also begs the question of how the player would obtain all of these rewards afterwards. Credits and resources could probably be increased from containers (and, in fact, this could perhaps even implement some more variety of gameplay by making crates and lockers much more valuable), but many mods are exclusive to enemy units, and so would have to be ported to other sources of loot, e.g. containers or end-of-mission rewards.

My own take on this is that there's too much stuff on the ground in Warframe, and so I'd like to see that get cleaned up somewhat. With this in mind, though, while we're getting rid of enemy drops, I'd support removing ammo as well, and simply giving all weapons infinite ammo: on the vast majority of weapons, ammo is pretty much never a concern on any mission, and the few weapons that do have ammo problems are far from being the strongest around. Removing ammo limitations could clean up ground drops significantly and make weapons as a whole play much more smoothly, while at worst generating no detrimental effects. This would, however, imply removing or reworking certain mods, as well as reworking Carrier (which could probably just increase magazine capacity and/or generate "soft reloads" by feeding in a continuous stream of ammo).

[Meicoomon_Prime]

On 2018-09-08 at 2:50 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

Why?

destiny 2.......just all i have to say to "why?" now,  having this as matchmaking mode. i'm totally fine for. 100%, means why least nerfs, it will also help out the new people somewhat that does want balanced game play. but save the crazy, chaos, and power fantasy. the charm and fact the only reason why i play warframe. its not balanced its crazy and rewards long gameplay and work hard for it. I'm in full support for balanced matchmaking mode but for the people that wants it. but sorry to break the news to you. ( in a very respectful way, i mean. sorry if this does sound harsh) Warframe has Chaos in its DNA, the powerful warframes, the powerful mods, the Work for those mods or working up plat to buy those godly mods, finding the weapon that just clicks with you, making mod build for your playstyle, and finally the deep lore. the lore says "the warframes powerful weapons of the ancient earth" warframe is what you make of it. want it balanced. remove mods, want to become god get the right mods and build. that what makes warframe well warframe. the Options.

having the options to have Balanced game play match making mod where powers are capped, range is capped, and such. you just come in with health and shield mods. the game chooses your frames preset of very balanced Co-op friendly stats. even i will jump into that match making once in while. but lets not destroy warframe in this name of "balance" people don't know what balance is until you have it. when you have it, its just feels like everything is just copy with another skin and firerate. nothing is one of the kind.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Meicoomon_Prime
typos and grammer fixes

[Tsukinoki]

Where to even start with your post?  I'm pretty sure its just a troll post...and not a very well done one either, but I'm going to respond just in the chance that you're serious or anyone actually agrees with your ideas....

On 2018-09-08 at 4:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

How would this be tenable?  For instance 440% is for shields and health, 165% is damage.  They mean different things and are completely different in context so why should they all be forced to the same mod amounts?  Makes no sense what-so ever.
Also mods never scaled like that.  And I remember back in mods 1.0 (Purely random mods with random stats, I remember being happy to get a +60% damage +25% reload speed mod back then, though it was frustrating to get a damage mod and have no idea if it was a near max strength one or not...but hey you could stack in as many damage mods as you could find at once), mods 2.0 (Set mods that weren't random and had ranges so you knew that if you found a rare damage mod its the same as all other rare damage mods, and they still stacked) and then the great mod devastation that gave us our current system while DE told us that "All your old mods are still going to be useful so don't get rid of them!"
Mods have never just started at 5% and gained 5% per level, so I have no idea where you got that idea.

On 2018-09-08 at 4:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we add a 10 sec cd untill we can cast the same abillity again a and 30 sec cooldown on ultimates after each use.

Ok...and what about abilities that need to be spammed to be any use?  Have you tried to use Vaubans Tesla?  Try using that once every 10 seconds only and seeing if that does anything.  Or what about Slash Dash?  Once every 10 seconds is surely going to kill.....zero enemies!
Very, very, very few abilities in the game are strong enough to deserve a CD, even when modded to the absolute max.
In fact DE removed a few soft CDs (Such as on Rhinos Stomp and Nyx's Chaos) to allow them to be cast more often because waiting 8 seconds, or waiting until every enemy under its effect has died, before being able to recast was deemed to be too long.  And one of those abilities is an ultimate.
The simple fact is that a single ability cast of nearly any ability does absolutely nothing.  Its worthless outside of CC effects, and even then the CD you want to put on is way too harsh.
The only thing that htis will do is make it so that everyone only plays CC frames (After all any other ability use is rendered pointless because of the long CC) and toggle abilities (which don't need to worry about the CD at all.  After all I can cast stomp once every 30 seconds....or I can use Danse Macabre and keep it active for 20 minutes at a time with absolutely zero downtime)

Further DE did try CDs way, way back in early alpha, and they removed it for the energy system because it slowed down gameplay way too much and they couldn't balance out the abilities with a CD applied to them because even with a 3 second CD on slash-dash it was rarely used and mostly useless because it simply couldn't do anything with such a long wait between uses.

On 2018-09-08 at 4:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we also remove auras and make them passives to certain frames( eg: saryin gets armor reduction, banshee enemy radar, mag shield reduction, volt shield recharge etc)

So basically "Hey lets even more heavily remove build diversity and limit frame choices!"
After all, your'e doing high level grineer?  Better bring in 4 Saryns!  And so on.
And with how there are fewer auras than there are frames what are your suggestions?  Just have frames that have duplicates of effects?

And beyond just hurting general build diversity through removal of a mod type this would hurt build diversity by lowering the mod point pool available.
All in all this would hurt players and limit choices...and for what benefit?

On 2018-09-08 at 4:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if we make enemies scale 50% of currents stats(hp, shield, armor, weapon damage) for each 5 levels they get, but remove eximus units!

Wow...so make the grineer scale super, super, super hard, and make the other enemies barely scale at all....and remove some of the enemy variety wand ways that they have to resist CC?
What benefit would this gain?

Lets look at an example of why this would be bad:
A heavy gunner at its base level of 8 has 300 cloned flesh and 500 ferrite armor.
At level 13 currently it has 412.5 cloned flesh and 541.8 ferrite armor, for an effective health pool of 1,157.47
With your idea it would have 450 cloned flesh and 750 ferrite armor, for an effective health pool of 1,575.  Not a massive difference yet, but still sizable for the new players that would be facing this enemy.
What about level 23?
Current scaling would put it at 1,312.5 cloned flesh and 785.82 ferrite armor for an effective health pool of 4,750.48
With your idea?  It would have 1,012.5 cloned flesh and 1687.5 ferrite armor for an effective health pool of 6707.8125.  And again at level 23 this is new players that are fighting this level of enemy.  And with the massively lowered damage mods down to 50% at most what are new players supposed to do?
And this is without taking their damage into effect because enemy damage is hard to define.
Basically this idea is "Screw new players!  They don't need to move beyond Saturn ever!"

And this is the grineer that would scale this way.  Corpus and Infested?  They would scale far less meaning they would be an absolute cakewalk as they don't have armor and their health values would scale much slower at the higher levels with only a small boost in the lower levels.
For instance the infested charger?  Has 80 base health.
Current scaling puts it at 200 at level 11.
With your idea?  180.  And it would only fall further and further and further behind as time goes.

And the removal of eximus units would not do anything to balance this out.

On 2018-09-08 at 4:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if enemies should only drop ammo, not creddits, mods or resources.

And how would any new player ever get resources?  Or mods?  Or credits?
Players already have a problem with credits in the early game and this would just make it much, much worse.  And for absolutely zero benefit.

And what about mods?  Would they all go into containers and end of mission rewards?  Good luck farming for anything that you would need to get beyond the starter planets....

And what purpose would this serve other than to make things more annoying?

Really the only effects of this "balanced" warframe would be a mass exodus of players and a completely different game that wouldn't be fun to play.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Unholy_Ghost]

Thank you all for your comments and sorry for the late reply, i was away from my comp for a while.

I would like to start by saying this was not a troll post neither that the balance suggestions should have the exact percentages that i recomended, but something along those lines.

First off our mods are either very underpowered(and never used) or vastly overpowered(meta damage gameplay), like i said from the start they really would need a rebalance, maybe not 50%, maybe something like 100% cap, but even you guys have to admit that 440% and 165% are to much. I'm not asking to reduce rank level just stat rebalance of the mods.

Second, we have too many abillities, 4 abbilities per warframe or x4 people thats 16 abillites, thats nonstop CC, raw damage, buffs, enemy debuffs, staggers, dots, slow, freeze, stuns etc. and thats not even taking aura buffs or debuffs into consideration adding 4 more possible damage buffs or enemy debuffs increasing the number to a total of 20 abillites. What challenge you want the enemy, any enemy to give you against that?

Third, by removing auras and making them passives to certain frames(without staking, forgot to mention that), you will be making each frame more unique and maybe more usefull(with passives that are acctually contribue to the fight) and finally reducing the squads potential to cheese through enemies( see at above at second point).

Fourth, the scalling was for players that want to stay for long time survivals or other long mission types that want to fight bullet sponge enemies without having to wait the long wait (instead of fighting a lvl 150 heavy gunner you will fight something like a level 60 heavy gunner with same stats).

And fifth, warframe has gorgeous maps and map setups and game mods, by making enemies drop only ammo( i'm talking about grunts here, not bosses or special enemies, or heavies) it encourages the player to explore more and slow down the pace of the game, not rush from point A to point B killing everything in sight with guns and abillites while our carriers or pets gatther the loot for us.

[LupoDWolf]

3 hours ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

Thank you all for your comments and sorry for the late reply, i was away from my comp for a while.

I would like to start by saying this was not a troll post neither that the balance suggestions should have the exact percentages that i recomended, but something along those lines.

First off our mods are either very underpowered(and never used) or vastly overpowered(meta damage gameplay), like i said from the start they really would need a rebalance, maybe not 50%, maybe something like 100% cap, but even you guys have to admit that 440% and 165% are to much. I'm not asking to reduce rank level just stat rebalance of the mods.

Second, we have too many abillities, 4 abbilities per warframe or x4 people thats 16 abillites, thats nonstop CC, raw damage, buffs, enemy debuffs, staggers, dots, slow, freeze, stuns etc. and thats not even taking aura buffs or debuffs into consideration adding 4 more possible damage buffs or enemy debuffs increasing the number to a total of 20 abillites. What challenge you want the enemy, any enemy to give you against that?

Third, by removing auras and making them passives to certain frames(without staking, forgot to mention that), you will be making each frame more unique and maybe more usefull(with passives that are acctually contribue to the fight) and finally reducing the squads potential to cheese through enemies( see at above at second point).

Fourth, the scalling was for players that want to stay for long time survivals or other long mission types that want to fight bullet sponge enemies without having to wait the long wait (instead of fighting a lvl 150 heavy gunner you will fight something like a level 60 heavy gunner with same stats).

And fifth, warframe has gorgeous maps and map setups and game mods, by making enemies drop only ammo( i'm talking about grunts here, not bosses or special enemies, or heavies) it encourages the player to explore more and slow down the pace of the game, not rush from point A to point B killing everything in sight with guns and abillites while our carriers or pets gatther the loot for us.

no one said that these two are too much, only one said that some of then are too much. lets take Frost as an example, he has 100 hp base and he is a tanky frame. and we have frames with 75 base hp, so you want then to be even squisher, do less damage and make the enemies scale harder and take mostly of the mods diversity at the same time? 
165% common is the primaries one, except shotguns that is 90% , melee 120%( won't use primes in these, as they have a very high cost), secondary is 220%( this one is higher than every other, bu i doubt someone fell it) 

 

How you think that 4 is too much ?(4 is death :V)  have you played when you had to chose what ability to take, as if it was a mod? doubt that someone really misses it. 

 

So what about auras that have other mods counterpart, like speed hoster, loot detector, etc? also, we already have it, our 4 abilities, that you for some reason wan to reduce and at same time make the frames feel different, and they already have passives,  so what about heir currently ones?

 

I think you misunderstood what people want, no one like bullet sponges. why do you think that slash+viral is so popular?

 

again, are you talking really about warframe? one of the  most asked thing is the univac for companions because companions slow down the pace of the game. Also, your ideia would have the exactly contrary result - people would rush to the objetive because there isn't anything worth in the map anymore.

[Teridax68]

I've been checking back on this thread, and many of the responses I've seen are fairly disappointing. Sure, what the OP suggests is contentious, and there are many reasons one may have to not want those suggestions to be integrated into the game, but is it really a reason to mock them? Is it really a reason to belittle someone giving out an honest opinion and refuse to engage in civil discussion? If you really don't like what they have to say, why post here and bump up their thread's visibility? I'm not pointing any fingers, but there are many people on here displaying attitudes I would not want to see coming from a player in-game, or anywhere else, certainly not from a member of what is meant to be one of the healthiest communities in any video game. Shame on you.

As mentioned above, if you think the OP's proposals are so ridiculous that they do not even merit discussion, do not discuss them, and visit another thread instead. If you do want to argue what they're saying, it helps to ask for justification as needed, explain your own position as needed, and so in a polite way that clearly establishes a difference in opinion, and tries to move discussion forward, instead of silencing or detracting from it.

Unholy_Ghost made a reply further down the thread (a respectful one, too, even in the face of downright abuse, so kudos to that), and whether or not you like their suggestions, they do make some valid points: Warframe's balance is notoriously all over the place, it is objectively true that some mods are picked far more than others, and so because they add tons of raw power, and many players have noted that the game's way of implementing difficulty has been to turn enemies into progressively tougher bullet sponges that also deal damage that veers ever closer into one-shot territory, putting frames without certain cheesing capabilities at a disadvantage at higher levels, while making the game's overall level of play at those levels much more contrived around that sort of cheese, usually invisibility or monumentally high damage reduction. This in itself does not mean the solutions proposed in this thread are necessarily good (I personally think 10-second cooldowns on abilities are a terrible idea, because 10 seconds is a very long time to wait in a game like Warframe), but it does mean that the OP isn't coming from out of nowhere. There is common ground to be found, and those who aren't even interested in at least trying to understand where the OP is coming from are unlikely to add to the conversation on this thread.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Teridax68

[Eirshy]

This has got to be bait lol

On 2018-09-08 at 3:44 PM, Unholy_Ghost said:

What if all mods ranked up at max lvl only 50%, instead of 165%, 120%, 440% etc....Like back in the old days we would start at 5% lvl 0 and gain 5%for each level we put in that mod.

What "old days"? I joined during u8, and at no point during or since u8 has that been how this game has worked.... I don't see a founders badge on ya, ya whippersnapper- so git off my lawn.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Eirshy

[Unholy_Ghost]

3 hours ago, Eirshy said:

This has got to be bait lol

What "old days"? I joined during u8, and at no point during or since u8 has that been how this game has worked.... I don't see a founders badge on ya, ya whippersnapper- so git off my lawn.

The common physical mods that maxed out at 30%?

[Eirshy]

20 minutes ago, Unholy_Ghost said:

The common physical mods that maxed out at 30%?

Firstly, since you're talking Physical damage, those didn't exist until Damage 2.0- which means they were added at 5% of weapon's physical type (not even 5% of the weapon's damage) in a time when Serration already was +15% per rank up to 165%. I also wanna say they used to be 60% at max, not 30%. But regardless they're useless anyways due to being multiplicative on type instead of additive from base.

Secondly, even if we go back to when the Puncture type mods were pseudo-elemental Armor Piercing damage...
My memory says they were 60% not 30% (but my memory may be wrong), AP was justifiably low since AP was the best damage type in the game (and only competed with in the "usable" category by Serrated Blade, Physics Impact, Toxin, and I think two others? Was Finisher a damage type too or did those deal Serrated Blade? God it's been so long...), and they also existed in a time when Serration was +15% per rank up to 165%.

Why are you still on my lawn? Don't make me shoot you with this sniper rifle hefts a very old-looking Hek shotgun.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Eirshy

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

NO! That is all.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

Warframe will never be balanced 

[LightningsVengance]

So long as female frames exist there will never be balance...

Edited September 28, 2018 by LightningsVengance
except Nidus, he's better than literally all the frames. fite me Ivara mains

[000l000]

Le 09/09/2018 à 19:28, Gnlstorm a dit :

Warframe is a very Grindy game if warframe change to what u mention the fun will gone... Why warframe is popular even the game is so Grindy? It because of the fun 

Fun has nothing to do with grind. Brainless repetitive tasks are what some people do in real life as a job and i can tell you that this isn't fun at all. If you have fun because you just spent 8 hrs farming Kuva to finally reroll your umpteenth riven to get even richer or enjoy your power creep everyone is complaining about - there's something really wrong about your fun definition - It's more about selfishness and show off.

If grind was that fun we wouldn't have so many toxic players all around getting angry if the mission is taking too long, or people spending days and night to get as much virtual money as they can etc.

Fun is only about content (and socialization in online games), and if content isn't fun enough that's why F2P action games add a lot of farming, power creep and such things - because people are bored yet and aren't even aware of that.