"Rewards will dictate whether Elite Alerts will be popular" - Seriously?

[(PSN)nating51]

On 2018-09-25 at 10:45 AM, DreisterDino said:

 

I am excited for the gamemode and it might become something that i play with clanmates "just for fun" - although that might sound crazy to some players in Warframe 😀

I am not looking for a new gamemode that is just another place to farm something as fast as possible and then never go back.

If we get nice cosmetics to show off that we achieved something there - great. If not but the gamemode is fun i will gladly play it anyway.

I am at a point where i dont really need much in the game, i have pretty much all the frames, all weapons, got all the gear i need or want, i dont need more plat because i pretty much purchased everything that i might want to have in the game. So if i play something i do it just for fun anyway. I prefer endless fissure missions for the gameplay, and yes - its nice when you get a rare drop of something, but in the end i dont even care about that because i already have it anyway and i dont really need to sell it because i dont need plat. And i am not alone with this and i think many players would enjoy a gamemode that is simply fun and not about farming something.

 

 

Exactly. I'm almost done with all weapons, warframes and gear (i miss some archwing stuff, a completa of kubrow and an amp). I just need a game mode that's simply challenging regardless of the reward. Only to play and test my warframe and weapons builds just for fun.

[FreeWilliam]

Am I being gaslit?

[space_magician]

On 2018-09-25 at 5:37 AM, MystMan said:

 of today's gamers that they only need a carrot on a stick as an incentive to play something long-term. I see this pop up a lot in conclave discussions. I find that odd cause back in my day in the past we used to play pvp simply for the experience and a place on the scoreboard and weeeeeeeee liked it. Today you must have skins and unlockables included otherwise it's not worth playing. Welp, guess I'm old, time to watch some NCIS and Law & Order.   

It's not always like that. Here's what youre missing: Warframe is a game built around loot, akin to an ARPG. Its current problem with this is the fact all existing content is trivial and can be accomplished while braindead, this doubles down on the fact loot is what makes something worth playing for a lot of people. It's literally the genre.

[Kimimoto]

Incentive to go past C or bust, the sole reason I don't play Kuva Survival and ESO.

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2018-09-25 at 10:45 AM, DreisterDino said:

only 1 life and no revives sounds interesting and could be fun

This line here is whats gonna cause the most problems, because there are no revives when the host goes down he automatically loses. He can only wait looking at the screen for his team to finish or exit and call in the dreaded host migration.

On 2018-09-25 at 10:45 AM, DreisterDino said:

• at first we should talk about what good rewards are for long time players: Endo? Credits? Relics? Most longtime players dont need any of those possible rewards i mentioned so that might be a "no". Weapons and Frames? The problem is, once you have those its just like getting a 2000 Credit Cache, so also a "no".
• Mods that are really viable and outstanding and improve your damage/performance a lot? I think that also a "no", because on the one hand it might only make something that can be a challenge boring once you own those mods, and on the other hand, once you have them you dont care about them anymore again as a reward.
• Tbh, in my opinion there cant be any rewards for longtime players that make a gamemode worth to be played for a long time. Because you either dont need them because you have enough of them already, or its the "once you get them you dont care about that reward anymore" case.

It is entirely possible to create rewards for long time players but it needs DEDICATION, something what DE lacks. The approach would be simple the gamemode from the start needs to drop an unique currency instead of actual drops.

After you get enough of this currency you can go to an exchanger and get the following (these are in from the start):

1. 500K credits
2. 5K endo
3. Atleast 3 new color palettes
4. Atleast 3 new armor sets
5. Atleast 3 new syandanas
6. Atleast 3 new weapons
7. Atleast 3 new pet and sentinel skins
8. Atleast 9 new mods

After these DE has to dedicate a group of people to this project who's only job is to create atleast 3 more rewards every 2 months for this gamemode. Preferably 2 fashion choices and 1 new weapon.

[DreisterDino]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Oreades:

Clearly~ 

If cosmetics to show off truly didn't matter, like you actually didn't care you wouldn't have felt the need to bring them up at all but ya did.

dude....i am literally responding to a Youtuber who brought up the whole rewards-topic in relation to this gamemode.

So how can i not bring that up in a response? It is the topic.

And if i say "if i get something, fine, if not also fine", it simply means "i dont care about that".

Where i live that is a common way to express that its not important for you.

So plz dont think you know better what i want to say.

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb AvaloN1101:

How would you view an employer in the real world that makes you take on any kind of task and doesn't give you something in return? Let's say you LOVE that job, so it never really feels like working. Your personal gratification isn't going to put food on the table. Since the dawn of humanity, when you do something for someone or give something to someone, you get something in return. It's all collectively known as "incentive." Incentive is the one-word answer to the question, "why would I do that?"

I think its is really funny that from all possible examples, you have chosen this one.

Why do you compare "playing a game" to "work at a company"?

Of course no one would work for free just because he likes the job but then starves to death...common sense.

 

Maybe compare "playing warframe" to another hobby you could have like "playing soccer"

Would someone play soccer each day with his friends only because he loves it and even he never gets any reward for it?

The answer would be probably yes in this case. I for example "wasted" so many years of my life on hobbys i didnt get any rewards for, but it was fun 😉

 

I know you didnt intented to do it, but this shows how many people view Warframe: Its work and you gotta get something for it or its not worth your time 😀

I dont know if i have brought this up in this topic or in others, but you always read "i have to farm focus although i dont want to" / "i have to farm ressource x or y" / "i have to lvl this weapon or that frame but its boring". It sounds like Warframe is a job you have to do even if you hate it. And thats why i want a gamemode that wont become something you feel like you have to do it just to get something out of it although you dont like doing it.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Fire2box]

Anyone think OP plays Defection "just for fun"? 😆

Or how about normal sanctuary onslaught?

Edited October 9, 2018 by Fire2box

[Almighty_Jado]

I do agree that rewards alone will not dictate this gamemode’s success.

For example, my most played mission type is between Mot survival and Kuva Fortress survival. (Note: I’ve been playing Kuve Fortress survival even before they added Kuva rewards) I play these two missions so much because a) to me, survival is the most fun, and b) I enjoy the challenge of facing higher level, tougher, harder hitting enemies.

So to conclude, even if these Arbitration Alerts give out the most garbage of rewards, if it’s still a challenge I’m gonna play the shizz out of it anyway.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Considering how integral grinding is to Warframe, I think the priorities should be a playable mode > good rewards > fun. Everything should always be functioning, that's a given. But then the rewards should be enticing enough to make people play even if the mode itself isn't appealing to them. That's kinda icky to hear, but at least I think good rewards is a more reliable way to make people do things than trying to make it fun. Considering how many different modes and such there are in the game(even if some of them are just variants/basically the same thing) trying to make something that appeals to the largest number of people seems silly, that's why they have a lot of options. Well no, everything should ideally appeal to a large group of people, but the line should be drawn between "We want people to like this" and "Let's twist the base concept to make it more appealing".

[Oreades]

 

7 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

dude....i am literally responding to a Youtuber who brought up the whole rewards-topic in relation to this gamemode.

So how can i not bring that up in a response? It is the topic.

And if i say "if i get something, fine, if not also fine", it simply means "i dont care about that".

Where i live that is a common way to express that its not important for you.

So plz dont think you know better what i want to say.

dude.... If you literally expect people to extrapolate that your stances are in direct response to something that a youtuber said specifically, maybe I dunno ........ let people know what the youtuber in question actually said that you are responding to?

Instead of leaving it to the title ""Rewards will dictate whether Elite Alerts will be popular" - Seriously?" and one sentence in the OP

On 2018-09-25 at 4:45 AM, DreisterDino said:

This quote in the headline of this topic is from a popular Warframe Youtuber, and i wanna talk about it because i couldnt agree less and i dont really like that kind of approach.

and expecting people to be mind readers? Maybe I dunno actually provide the source material (EG youtube link) you are responding to or give an indication in your direct response that you are directly responding to something said youtuber said with direct regard to cosmetics if you never mention that they mentioned cosmetics?

Having said that there is still a pretty big difference between saying 

• I really don't care about rewards as long as it's fun.
• If we get some cool cosmetics to show off our achievements great, but I don't care as long as it's fun. 

One of those example statements is super duper loaded. 

 

 

15 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

NOT ALL OF US PRIORITIZE REWARDS OVER FUN.  

Considering the topic assuming I am allowed to assume anything from the title of the OP ""Rewards will dictate whether Elite Alerts will be popular"" and while you're fine to say ya want to prioritize whatever...... unless you want to see another Archwing (fun fact: I actually enjoy Archwing) where the game mode is added and just kinda ignored for years ostensibly because it was unpopular. In no short part because it was as decoupled from the rest of the game as it was. Then you are going to need the "approval" of the general population and the general population wants rewards.

Even people who say they don't want/care about rewards usually circle around to rewards eventually. It just tends to take them longer to admit they want the sandwich. 

 

15 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

We can get rewards all over the place, we want to smash stuff that punches us back that starts within a few minutes.

I certainly can't fault not enjoying having to sit in a mission for 40+ minutes until things finally "ramp up" however.

I've said this many times in many "we need challenge" threads. You can literally do that right now...... without having to wait for DE, just think more min instead of max when you set your build parameters. A little self control goes a long way in a game that is only as difficult as you make it. Tho since no substantial minimalist meta exists It's fairly safe to assume that having to work harder for the same rewards doesn't appeal to most people. 

Heck even people who say they want a "challenge" can't seem to bring themselves to bother and will attack the very notion that they should have to lift a finger to get what they say they want. Which I always find to be a special kind of ironic. 

 

15 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

Stop pretending you know what is in other people's heads. 

When every "challenge" thread under the sun starts off by addressing the importance of rewards or Rewards are brought up within the first six or so posts..... it's fairly safe to assume what's in peoples head fruit and it's foolish to deny that while rewards are not the end all be all they are in point of fact very important to people.

Also evidenced by people who abandon game modes/play styles/sessions they say they loved when the literal only thing that has changed are the perceived rewards.

 

15 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

We're adults and can speak for ourselves, Tenno.

And where exactly have I said you couldn't? 

I seem to recall committing the high crime of pragmatism and offering up an actual example of where the notion that rewards don't matter has failed in the past and continues to fail in semi regular forum threads to this day. At which point I got a pretty vapid response that did little but toss completely hollow attacks my observations of the general playerbase.

Admittedly I probably shouldn't have bothered to respond to it but it kinda amused me. 

I guess the moral of that story is when you ask for peoples opinions...... be prepared for opinions you don't agree with.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Oreades

[SneakyErvin]

I'm already starting to see issues with the elite alerts when it comes to rewards. Few (if any) of the mods seem to be worth getting.

The Aura that people seem to overhype will completely wreck certain builds in your group. I hope people will actually consider this before jumping into missions where you can expect these builds to show up. Like defense/survival missions where a Speed or Neutral Nova is a likely member. Bringing this new aura to that will really gimp those two builds and possibly the whole run. Hopefully people will be smart enough to save the aura for pre-made runs where they know who they'll end up with and what builds they use. It is already bad enough when you end up with Equinox while using those Nova builds since he straight up nerfs them by his presence.

[DerGreif2]

Guys pls think... We are not all MR25. This gammode is NOT for MR25 players. It's a mode for late game players. A mode that is challenging for the most part of the playerbase. Dont see it as the new veteran playground and argue that way. You will never be able to please MR25 people because they have all things already. They should stay because they like the game.

You want a challange? Disable the ability to use primed or riven mods. End of the story.

I am MR16 right now and I consider myself a late game player. I dont try to have everything in the game because I know when I have everything I would miss something. The thing is when you reached the end you will see that the road was the goal.

 

I just hope that is is a challenge for normal players and have some good rewards for us. Hopefully not credits.. the new mods sound fun! I love the ones that I have heard of. And the thrilling that you have only one life? Oh boy I love that.

 

Pls dont turn any new content into a conversation if the players that already have anything will enjoy it. It's for the hole community and not just the late game one. Be glad that they give us something different and something a bit more difficult than normal endless missions. I think the mode will be interesting and if the rewards contain something like kuva and endo it will be played a lot.

 

Sorry for this kind of comment but I dont like it if MR25 talk to level MR25 and try to make a mode as much fun as possible but forget the rest of the player base... I know that game needs end game content but I have the feeling that a veteran player only update will never come. This is a late game update and not veteran game mode.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

In the end: think also about the NOT MR25 people... people with no maxed prime mods and godlike rivens...

[DreisterDino]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb Oreades:

 

dude.... If you literally expect people to extrapolate that your stances are in direct response to something that a youtuber said specifically, maybe I dunno ........ let people know what the youtuber in question actually said that you are responding to?

Instead of leaving it to the title ""Rewards will dictate whether Elite Alerts will be popular" - Seriously?" and one sentence in the OP

and expecting people to be mind readers? Maybe I dunno actually provide the source material (EG youtube link) you are responding to or give an indication in your direct response that you are directly responding to something said youtuber said with direct regard to cosmetics if you never mention that they mentioned cosmetics?

There is nothing to extrapolate, but ok i let you know what the Youtuber said:

"Rewards will dictate wether Elite Alerts will be popular"

Maybe i write an essay thats 2 pages long next time with Introduction-MainPart-Conclusion about a 5 minute Video so its super duper clear what i am refering to.

Just so you know, the Youtuber was TacticalPotato, and he really didnt say much more than what i have stated.

Just look up his Videos about the EliteAlerts.

 

Zitat

Having said that there is still a pretty big difference between saying 

• I really don't care about rewards as long as it's fun.
• If we get some cool cosmetics to show off our achievements great, but I don't care as long as it's fun. 

One of those example statements is super duper loaded.

You are doing it again...you change what i have actually written to something else so you can say i am wrong.

What i wrote was:

Zitat

 

And if i say "if i get something, fine, if not also fine", it simply means "i dont care about that".

Where i live that is a common way to express that its not important for you.

 

There is a difference between what i wrote and what you say i have written.

Zitat

When every "challenge" thread under the sun starts off by addressing the importance of rewards or Rewards are brought up within the first six or so posts..... it's fairly safe to assume what's in peoples head fruit

So if the OP says "rewards are not important" and the first responder says "rewards are important" they become 1 person in your head that does say one thing but wants another?If you cant distinguish between who said what i think i can see the problem now  😀

Edited October 9, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

There is nothing to extrapolate, but ok i let you know what the Youtuber said:

"Rewards will dictate wether Elite Alerts will be popular"

Maybe i write an essay thats 2 pages long next time with Introduction-MainPart-Conclusion about a 5 minute Video so its super duper clear what i am refering to.

Just so you know, the Youtuber was TacticalPotato, and he really didnt say much more than what i have stated.

 

You are doing it again...you change what i have actually written to something else so you can say i am wrong.

What i wrote was:

There is a difference between what i wrote and what you wrote.

Yeah I'm totes changing what you wrote.....

Except that what you wrote was that the reason you where bringing up cosmetics was supposedly not the fact that you actually cared about them ....... but because of the fact that the youtuber in question had brought up cosmetics and you where responding to it......... when you never mentioned up to that point that the youtuber had ever mentioned cosmetics...... The only thing that you actually state about the youtubers opinion is conveyed in your title. 

So there is no reason to assume that the fact that you addressed cosmetics has anything to do with anyone but yourself. 

I'm not twisting your words, you're omitting facts that you want to be pertinent and assuming people will just magically know them. While trying to use those unstated facts to show that you really don't care about the cosmetic rewards angle even tho it you brought it up in your OP quite a bit. 

[DreisterDino]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Oreades:

Yeah I'm totes changing what you wrote.....

Except that what you wrote was that the reason you where bringing up cosmetics was supposedly not the fact that you actually cared about them ....... but because of the fact that the youtuber in question had brought up cosmetics and you where responding to it......... when you never mentioned up to that point that the youtuber had ever mentioned cosmetics...... The only thing that you actually state about the youtubers opinion is conveyed in your title. 

So there is no reason to assume that the fact that you addressed cosmetics has anything to do with anyone but yourself. 

I'm not twisting your words, you're omitting facts that you want to be pertinent and assuming people will just magically know them. While trying to use those unstated facts to show that you really don't care about the cosmetic rewards angle even tho it you brought it up in your OP quite a bit. 

The Devs said rewards will be cosmetics or ressources you need to build those cosmetics, and they have said that in a PrimeTime or Devstream, dunno.

Thats why i was bringing it up.

If you are not informed on a topic well you simply could have ask a question instead of saying "Everyone who asks for a challenge always wants rewards, here is the proof (that i just made up)". We are not taking this topic any further, so ill stop with this conversation now. You can PM me if you feel like doing that.

Edited October 9, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Oreades]

2 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

The Devs said rewards will be cosmetics or ressources you need to build those cosmetics, and they have said that in a PrimeTime or Devstream, dunno.

Thats why i was bringing it up.

So now it isn't the youtuber that brought up cosmetics it's the developers and they are the reason you brought up cosmetics and not the youtuber? Ya need to get your story strait and stick to it. 

2 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

If you are not informed on a topic well you simply could have ask a question instead of saying "Everyone who asks for a challenge always wants rewards, here is the proof (i just made up). We are not taking this topic any further, so ill stop with this conversation now.

Oh hey now I'm "uninformed" on the topic because you never specified that someone else bringing up cosmetics is the reason you brought up cosmetics in the first place as a recurring theme. 

And I don't seem to recall ever saying "everyone", who's changing who's words now  and clearly the points I brought up are completely fabricated because you say they are.

Ignoring the fact that you can pop into pretty much any "warframe needs challenge" thread made over the last (since forever) and observe the distinct pattern of the topic either starting with or turning to rewards in very short order. Or any of those threads that crop up from time to time lamenting (insert protracted time frame) Void Survival ignoring that the only thing that has really changed about void survival are the rewards. But hey rewards aren't important~

Nope all completely fictional, you got me~

I would argue that it's never really been a conversation, you started it out being completely dismissive of a view/observation that you didn't like (even tho you where the one who asked for opinions) and you never really tried to converse. Even now your final statement is little more than dismissive fluff. 

But ya know, have a nice day :)

[Methanoid]

On 2018-09-25 at 10:01 AM, sleepychewbacca said:

The thing is, without loot, I'm not interested. I'm sure there's at least another that thinks that way. 

ESO is fun and all, but once I got what I needed, I never had a need to touch it unless I really wanted to. 

I dont even think the vandal weapons are worth playing ESO, for what they are they deserve to sit in regular SO, theres no way those junk fodder items belong in the elite variant as if they were something amazing.

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

I dont even think the vandal weapons are worth playing ESO, for what they are they deserve to sit in regular SO, theres no way those junk fodder items belong in the elite variant as if they were something amazing.

Lato Vandal with a riven is one of the best secondaries in the game.

So the rewards from ESO are pretty good for the work you put in.

[DreisterDino]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Oreades:

So now it isn't the youtuber that brought up cosmetics it's the developers and they are the reason you brought up cosmetics and not the youtuber? Ya need to get your story strait and stick to it.

Ok, one last thing, i never said that the Youtuber brought it up, it was a point in my list. "My story" never was that the Youtuber talked about cosmetics.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb DerGreif2:

Guys pls think... We are not all MR25. This gammode is NOT for MR25 players. It's a mode for late game players. A mode that is challenging for the most part of the playerbase. Dont see it as the new veteran playground and argue that way. You will never be able to please MR25 people because they have all things already. They should stay because they like the game.

Challenging doesnt mean that only "MR25 players with godlike Rivens" can handle it.

If you take ESO for example: It is fairly doable for players that have no Rivens and all gear in the game until Zone8 at least and maybe even further.

They can have fun and a challenge if they like the gamemode.

With a few changes to ESO (reducing the drain would be the most important) more experienced players could try to go as long as they can

(until enemies are simply too strong and not dying while you are getting downed all the time - not because of a drain that kicks you out).

 

So, it would be possible that both "normal players" (lol^^) and "veterans" can have fun in the same gamemode.

People that dont have a problem with the drain mechanic probably would say that thats the case already in ESO without further updates/changes.

Ofc the less experienced players might come to a point where they fail to go further earlier then the experienced players, but thats just logical.

[Methanoid]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Lato Vandal with a riven is one of the best secondaries in the game.

So the rewards from ESO are pretty good for the work you put in.

any weapon + good riven = better weapon.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Methanoid said:

any weapon + good riven = better weapon.

I'm saying compared to other secondaries with rivens it is one of the better thanks to its already good stats and strong dispo.

Are there better secondaries? Yes. Is Lato V bad? No.

[sleepychewbacca]

31 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

I dont even think the vandal weapons are worth playing ESO, for what they are they deserve to sit in regular SO, theres no way those junk fodder items belong in the elite variant as if they were something amazing.

I don't think they're there because they're good weapons, but more there for grind difficulty on top of the drop rates. 

Cause you know, rereleasing the Vandals caused some drama, but idek. 

[FreeWilliam]

2 hours ago, Almighty_Jado said:

For example, my most played mission type is between Mot survival and Kuva Fortress survival. (Note: I’ve been playing Kuve Fortress survival even before they added Kuva rewards) I play these two missions so much because a) to me, survival is the most fun, and b) I enjoy the challenge of facing higher level, tougher, harder hitting enemies.

So to conclude, even if these Arbitration Alerts give out the most garbage of rewards, if it’s still a challenge I’m gonna play the shizz out of it anyway.

I tend to also go to places that ramp up the challenge quicker, I also like modes where mobility is a factor, so you'll see me a lot more at Hieracon than a defense mission because you get lots of 'bullet jump into the big mass of infested and SMASH' scenarios.  

And yes, I go there exclusively for the fun.

I totally agree with the people who say that there are different sorts of fun (even ours are slightly divergent with a common thread, right?) and would love to see DE explore more game modes even if they're ones I don't enjoy (I'm NOT a fan of Eidolon hunting for example and don't find it fun), but I think something that's getting missed in the responses to the people asking for challenge is we're describing a REALLY easy thing to add that doesn't require any new mechanics or a ton of dev work.  

One thing I'd like to see though is something that keeps us from taking things for granted even if it's completely random.  I thought we were getting something like that in Onslaught but it seems like Simaris is just preventing spamming abilities while allowing us to lean on them hard.  It would be nice if it was impossible to make 'meme' builds because you never could depend on your toolkit. 

As mentioned (repeatedly, but apparently I need this in there for some people), I'd love to see more variety in game modes.  I'd also likely play a lot of them for fun.  Some I might not, but that's kind of the point of us being different.

Rewards-wise, I'd love endo/kuva/cosmetics/whatever, that's not a focus but I like neat things (I'm excited about the new negative power strength aura because I can make my Atlas' Rumblers even tinier, I run mine with overextended not because it helps the build but because 'Tiny Rumblers' are like a custom peculiar for Atlas).  I'd rather NOT have any must-have rewards because I think that inserts a bit of unnecessary drama with people getting upset if something goes wrong.  I know this is a personal opinion, but it's not because I 'don't like stuff', it's because of how people work when they really want something and don't get it.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[AvaloN1101]

14 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

I think its is really funny that from all possible examples, you have chosen this one.

Why do you compare "playing a game" to "work at a company"?

Of course no one would work for free just because he likes the job but then starves to death...common sense.

 

Maybe compare "playing warframe" to another hobby you could have like "playing soccer"

Would someone play soccer each day with his friends only because he loves it and even he never gets any reward for it?

The answer would be probably yes in this case. I for example "wasted" so many years of my life on hobbys i didnt get any rewards for, but it was fun

I'm not comparing the act of playing Warframe with working for a company. I'm comparing the concept that both playing Warframe (or any other game for that matter) and a working company share. That is, I'm showing that in both cases you need to invest time into the game, and work towards a goal, whatever that goal is. If you work for a company, you expect to be compensated for the time and energy you are investing. The same applies to games; if you put in the time and work into a game, you'd naturally expect to be compensated for that. Whether it be in the form of an awesomely fun game mode, a challenge that is difficult to best, or cosmetics and whatnot to spiff up your game, it's still a causal relationship. You work, you invest, you conquer; in return you should be rewarded by a plethora of items and entertainment.

You comparing playing Warframe to playing soccer is also valid, but it feels like you aren't digging deep enough.

"Would someone play soccer each day with his friends only because he loves it and even he never gets any reward for it?" - The simple fact that a person loves playing soccer is in and of itself the reward. Playing sports pits 2 or more teams against each other. You compete to win; the stage doesn't matter. In your backyard or playing in the FIFA World Cup. The reward you get for investing time practicing and training, or just messing around with your friends, is the gratification you feel. Winning against your friends gives you bragging rights, while winning the FIFA World Cup gives... well, use your imagination.

I can't think of a single game that, from Day 1, gives you every single feature unlocked. You play, you progress, you unlock more stuff, and keep progressing. The difference in when you personally stop is when you feel there is no incentive for you as a player to continue investing time into it.

So yeah, incentive matters to game developers. If these Elite Alerts don't offer much in the way of incentive to those who are capable of clearing it, they just won't do it or will be super selective as to which ones they do. And if there are only 300 people out of an active, say 20k, people playing that are capable of participating in the Alert, can you honestly call that a success? (Disclaimer: these are fictitious numbers I came up with off the top of my head to serve as an example.)

Edited October 9, 2018 by AvaloN1101

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, AvaloN1101 said:

I'm not comparing the act of playing Warframe with working for a company. I'm comparing the concept that both playing Warframe (or any other game for that matter) and a working company share. That is, I'm showing that in both cases you need to invest time into the game, and work towards a goal, whatever that goal is. If you work for a company, you expect to be compensated for the time and energy you are investing. The same applies to games; if you put in the time and work into a game, you'd naturally expect to be compensated for that. Whether it be in the form of an awesomely fun game mode, a challenge that is difficult to best, or cosmetics and whatnot to spiff up your game, it's still a causal relationship. You work, you invest, you conquer; in return you should be rewarded by a plethora of items and entertainment.

You comparing playing Warframe to playing soccer is also valid, but it feels like you aren't digging deep enough.

"Would someone play soccer each day with his friends only because he loves it and even he never gets any reward for it?" - The simple fact that a person loves playing soccer is in and of itself the reward. Playing sports pits 2 or more teams against each other. You compete to win; the stage doesn't matter. In your backyard or playing in the FIFA World Cup. The reward you get for investing time practicing and training, or just messing around with your friends, is the gratification you feel. Winning against your friends gives you bragging rights, while winning the FIFA World Cup gives... well, use your imagination.

I can't think of a single game that, from Day 1, gives you every single feature unlocked. You play, you progress, you unlock more stuff, and keep progressing. The difference in when you personally stop is when you feel there is no incentive for you as a player to continue investing time into it.

So yeah, incentive matters to game developers. If these Elite Alerts don't offer much in the way of incentive to those who are capable of clearing it, they just won't do it or will be super selective as to which ones they do. And if there are only 300 people out of an active, say 20k, people playing that are capable of participating in the Alert, can you honestly call that a success? (Disclaimer: these are fictitious numbers I came up with off the top of my head to serve as an example.)

Good overall point and I wouldn't call those numbers too out of the ballpark, they seem relatively in the neighborhood experience with modes made for a similar audience.