Equinox Deluxe -> Equinox Revisit?

[Ikusi_Prime]

The devs have made a habit of revisiting frames when they release Deluxe Skins for them. We also know that Equinox has a (pretty awesome) Deluxe skin coming up. 

Do you think they will get revisited? What about them could be improved? What doesn't need changing? 

[DerGreif2]

I dont think that they do anything with her in the future. She has a lot of good and different builds (at least 3 that I know). Other characters are more important than her. She is fine.

[Ikusi_Prime]

30 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

I dont think that they do anything with her in the future. She has a lot of good and different builds (at least 3 that I know). Other characters are more important than her. She is fine.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Nezha's revisit that he just got. He didn't get anything major, just a bit of retuning to make his kit flow nicer and function as-intended. Equinox has some LONG cast times, and none of their abilities feel particularly "active". They have a variety of buffs, debuffs, and auras, which is great from a mechanical standpoint, but it's hard to feel Equinox's impact. They hit a button, and you either start dealing more damage, or taking less damage. Nothing big or flashy or palpable. Moreover, using their 1 interrupts the majority of their kit, adding additional clunkiness with the long cast times on everything. 

Are they a viable Frame? Absolutely. They feel strong, and they are fun to play. Are they the best that they could be? No, not really. I think the release of the Deluxe skin would be a great opportunity to reduce some of the clunkiness from Equinox's kit and streamline their abilities, especially since they are most likely going to be Primed in the upcoming year and a lot more people are going to be playing them. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Aejan

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, Aejan said:

Do you think they will get revisited? What about them could be improved? What doesn't need changing? 

honestly, i don't think Equinox really needs much in the way of changing, as she can do it all: heal, CC and damage, as well as buff allies. I've been using her a bit more lately and I've been toying with the idea of making her have 3 modes instead of just 2, as explained here:

instead of just Day and Night, Equinox would have a 3rd neutral mode, which would use the appearance of her standard neutral form seen in non-combat zones like Relays and your Orbiter.  Metamorphosis would have to be changed to a wheel system like Ivara's Quiver, but I'm sure anyone who plays Ivara, Vauban or Khora could get used to it. the neutral form would combine half-strength versions of both day and night powers together and use them simultaneously. using her ult, Mend & Maim as an example, it would work like this.

Day form: Maim only, full damage as normal

night form: Mend only, full healing as normal

Neutral form: both Mend and Maim are active, but you only gain half as much health and deal half as much damage. 

it would essentially allow Equinox to get the benefits of both forms without becoming blatantly overpowered. some players may find it a hassle if they're trying to run a Maim build at higher levels but constantly get hit and need to keep switching to Night form so they can heal themselves. this would be a compromise that allows them to heal without switching modes, at the cost of some damage and without making Mend itself in it's purest form irrelevant.

just an idea anyway, i can live with Equinox as she is but the idea of combining her powers from both forms at once is really interesting to me.

 

[stormy505]

A nice "buff" if you could even call it that for equinox would be letting me mod night form and day form separately

Edited October 4, 2018 by stormy505

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, stormy505 said:

A nice "buff" if you could even call it that for equinox would be letting me mod night form and day form separately

That defeats the purpose of her kit. You are supposed to balance Day and Night form in your build if you wish to use both. In my opinion, all her abilities are fine, but Energy Transfer should be completely new, and switching between forms should hold that effect for all abilities.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Voltage

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

5 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

honestly, i don't think Equinox really needs much in the way of changing, as she can do it all: heal, CC and damage, as well as buff allies. I've been using her a bit more lately and I've been toying with the idea of making her have 3 modes instead of just 2, as explained here:

instead of just Day and Night, Equinox would have a 3rd neutral mode, which would use the appearance of her standard neutral form seen in non-combat zones like Relays and your Orbiter.  Metamorphosis would have to be changed to a wheel system like Ivara's Quiver, but I'm sure anyone who plays Ivara, Vauban or Khora could get used to it. the neutral form would combine half-strength versions of both day and night powers together and use them simultaneously. using her ult, Mend & Maim as an example, it would work like this.

Day form: Maim only, full damage as normal

night form: Mend only, full healing as normal

Neutral form: both Mend and Maim are active, but you only gain half as much health and deal half as much damage. 

it would essentially allow Equinox to get the benefits of both forms without becoming blatantly overpowered. some players may find it a hassle if they're trying to run a Maim build at higher levels but constantly get hit and need to keep switching to Night form so they can heal themselves. this would be a compromise that allows them to heal without switching modes, at the cost of some damage and without making Mend itself in it's purest form irrelevant.

just an idea anyway, i can live with Equinox as she is but the idea of combining her powers from both forms at once is really interesting to me.

 

3rd mode is FashionFrame mode in relays. 

😁

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Neutral form: both Mend and Maim are active, but you only gain half as much health and deal half as much damage. 

it would essentially allow Equinox to get the benefits of both forms without becoming blatantly overpowered.

That is blatantly overpowered, though. Stacking either Mend or Maim for a handful of seconds allows you to heal the whole party any amount, or wipe out all enemies at pre-Sortie levels in a wide area. Being able to do both at once with just the penalty of a few extra seconds isn't enough of a balance to that particular power.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, SenorClipClop said:

That is blatantly overpowered, though

I see where you're coming from, but this would just be a matter of adjusting numbers. if it's really that OP (I disagree, but w/e) the forms could only have 25% strength instead. a really weak Maim combined with a really weak Mend for when you need a bit of both. as I said in the post, It's just an idea.

[Oreades]

What is there to revisit tho?

Arguably the only thing that was really on my list was to have the Mend/Maim charge carry over between transitions...... and unfortunately they gave us that in the form of a (IMO rushed because they promised an Equinox augment and then realized that the augment they demoed was horribly stupidly brokenly OP and panic swapped it) augment....... so that massive QOL update is pretty much off the table now..... 

There really isn't much to change unless you're in the ZOMG NERF MAIM camp. 

[Marvelous_A]

She's painful to use if you want to utilize all 7 abilities from both forms of her.

[-Scaramouche-]

I just wish we got to see more of the combined form in missions.

[stormy505]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

That defeats the purpose of her kit. You are supposed to balance Day and Night form in your build if you wish to use both. In my opinion, all her abilities are fine, but Energy Transfer should be completely new, and switching between forms should hold that effect for all abilities.

the fact that she has 7 abilitys but most people only can mod for 1 seems pretty dumb for me... also it wouldn't change her effectiveness when killing/healing it would just let her be more flexibly and can adapt to what her team needs.

[Ikusi_Prime]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

What is there to revisit tho?

Arguably the only thing that was really on my list was to have the Mend/Maim charge carry over between transitions...... and unfortunately they gave us that in the form of a (IMO rushed because they promised an Equinox augment and then realized that the augment they demoed was horribly stupidly brokenly OP and panic swapped it) augment....... so that massive QOL update is pretty much off the table now..... 

There really isn't much to change unless you're in the ZOMG NERF MAIM camp. 

Like I said above, just some tuning to remove some clunkiness would be great. Long cast times combined with their abilities getting canceled by changing forms means you are discouraged from switching forms mid-fight, when form-changing is their thing. Something similar to what Nezha got would be appreciated (i.e., not a total rework, just some QoL changes to cast times, animations, and functions).

 

[Ikusi_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I see where you're coming from, but this would just be a matter of adjusting numbers. if it's really that OP (I disagree, but w/e) the forms could only have 25% strength instead. a really weak Maim combined with a really weak Mend for when you need a bit of both. as I said in the post, It's just an idea.

Or they could have smaller healing/damage caps, or the healing and damage fill the same "meter". 

[Oreades]

25 minutes ago, -Fergie- said:

I just wish we got to see more of the combined form in missions.

That is probably currently the most disappointing aspect of Equinox. The fact that her combine form essentially only exists in Relays/Dojos and your Orbiter. 

I don't think there is any time you use the combine form in actual missions. It's essentially just extra modeling work for the art department that never really gets fully utilized.

If they do something with it I'd really like to see something new instead of just kinda lazily combining her existing powers. 

[Lewtenant]

I could see them nerfing maim equinox when the deluxe comes out. Maim already has the gripe that new players had about ember for set and forget type styles. Low level defense (especially not grineer) can be absolutely devastated by leaving maim on. I could see them adding a line of sight requirement for maim. Also the scaling damage that doesn't depend on any sort of power strength incredibly strong with 40% strength still. Maybe making the health multiplier scale off of strength.

I love using it to get through 10 wave defenses and it's my favorite way to kill corpus and infested at any level. Everything else in the equinox kit has a ton of viability. I'll be bummed if she gets hit like ember.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

That defeats the purpose of her kit. You are supposed to balance Day and Night form in your build if you wish to use both. In my opinion, all her abilities are fine, but Energy Transfer should be completely new, and switching between forms should hold that effect for all abilities.

People either mod for day or night then go into a mission and play to their strength. I guess it counts as balanced if you're Thanos. But for people who want more livelier synergy between actively switching between offense and defense, she could use the QoL change that exalted weapons got. 

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, stormy505 said:

the fact that she has 7 abilitys but most people only can mod for 1 seems pretty dumb for me... also it wouldn't change her effectiveness when killing/healing it would just let her be more flexibly and can adapt to what her team needs.

People mod Equinox for one ability (Maim) because you can get away with modding for (and playing) just Maim with overwhelming success in a mission. Bunches of damage for next to zero effort, a Maim build completely trivializes low to mid-level missions, which is why it's popular. The best-scaling build for Equinox is probably the "spider build" (high range Night Form with Rest's augment), but that's overlooked in standard-level gameplay because it's easier to do the no-brainer nuke thing.

I don't think it's problem with how Equinox is designed. I think it's just an issue with how easy most missions are, to the point where much of what we can do isn't needed for success.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Equinox doesn’t need changes. She’s aged perfectly well due to her ability to support in CC DPS and Healing.