The New Sword Crafting Cost

[Thelk641]

Yes, and the fact that the equipment for the Sacrifice is given by Konzu is said during the Sacr... no it's not.

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Basically, what you need to do is play the game, you know? Instead of trying to rush for the next objective. 

Next time I see a new NPC, I'll take the time to note each and every line of dialogue that he has, just in case. Or maybe not, because that's not the game. I went to PoE when I could, I saw that it was mostly a late-game thing, I let it on the side for when I'll have late-game weapons and mods. Then before I reached late-game stuff (which, let me remind you, the Sacrifice only requires to finish Chains of Harrow and be MR5), I did the Sacrifice, had a hard time so did a little research and tada : google told me that to do mid-game stuff you need late-game stuff because LOGIC.

 

I wouldn't call that rushing, I'll call that being interested by the main quest, wanting to play the game normally and letting it tell me what I'll need to do next instead of spending my time asking google what the next step is supposed to be which, based on your posts, is probably how you're supposed to play Warframe.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Yes, and the fact that the equipment for the Sacrifice is given by Konzu is said during the Sacr... no it's not.

Should it be? Do they need to put signs up saying "breathe now, your body needs oxygen" too? Or "try not to get shot so often, it leads to death"? 

And you can complete it without levelling up. You will just have a hard time. That's as it should be.

8 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Next time I see a new NPC, I'll take the time to note each and every line of dialogue that he has, just in case

Good plan. Might work better than the whole "let's just ignore the content and complain afterwards that nobody came and held our hand and told us what buttons to press to win". 

 

10 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

I went to PoE when I could, I saw that it was mostly a late-game thing, I let it on the side for when I'll have late-game weapons and mods. 

Oh it's a mix of content going all the way up. BTW, if a quest is at the end of the current progression, then odds are, it's not actually mid-game content. Might want to think about that, the next time you want to do late game content and find yourself in a position where you may need stuff that you would have gotten earlier.

Like I said, try actually playing the game, instead of rushing. You may be pleasantly surprised by what you find. 

15 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

I wouldn't call that rushing, 

Yes, you probably wouldn't. But that's probably linked to why you had a harder time than you expected. It's what happens when you rush to do stuff that you aren't ready for, yet. 

On, and something that you might have missed, just having the gear doesn't mean that you can do the quest with ease. You may not be able to use it effectively if you have no experience. That's something that you tend to miss out on if you rush. 

[Thelk641]

il y a 25 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

"let's just ignore the content and complain afterwards that nobody came and held our hand and told us what buttons to press to win". 

Again, can you quote any other NPC by memory ? No, so you ignored the content of the game ! Sorry, I don't have an eidetic memory, random NPC's small talk to fill the space is not something it tend to learn by heart.

 

il y a 25 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

BTW, if a quest is at the end of the current progression

And again... how do you learn this ? You go to The Sacrifice's wiki page, to find that it doesn't lead to anything else. Which I wouldn't have gone to until I finished the quest because, again, I do care about the story, in particular after the cutscenes of the previous main quests.

 

And, AGAIN... like the other poster who talked about 80s game... we're not talking about a game in which you get the quests early and can't do them until you farm, I played WoW back in the day when you could get level 30 quest while you were level 10 and got OS by the mobs, but that isn't the case in Warframe, we're talking about a game where all previous quest have been easily doable with the gear I had when I got access to the quest and, surprise, that also is the case of the beginning of The Sacrifice where the unarmed operator one-shot Umbra the first time you face it and two-shot it the second time. From the point of view of an unspoiled player getting there while playing casually, this is a mid-game quest.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Thelk641

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

39 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Again, can you quote any other NPC by memory ? No, so you ignored the content of the game ! Sorry, I don't have an eidetic memory, random NPC's small talk to fill the space is not something it tend to learn by heart.

Of course I can, we all can: Clem. 

And when you're hearing about his early lunch and the Quills telling him stuff a million and one times trying to get lenses and Eidolon lens blueprints so you can work on your focus, it's kind of hard to miss, really. Unless you chose to totally skip all of that, at which point complaining is a bit useless, isn't it? 

39 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

And again... how do you learn this ? You go to The Sacrifice's wiki page, to find that it doesn't lead to anything else. Which I wouldn't have gone to until I finished the quest because, again, I do care about the story, in particular after the cutscenes of the previous main quests.

LOL no, you look at the order in the codex. It's a thing. In your orbiter. On port side. Close to where the syndicate thing is.... You know what, maybe you really should check out the wiki after all. 

39 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

And, AGAIN... like the other poster who talked about 80s game... we're not talking about a game in which you get the quests early and can't do them until you farm, I played WoW back in the day when you could get level 30 quest while you were level 10 and got OS by the mobs, but that isn't the case in Warframe, we're talking about a game where all previous quest have been easily doable with the gear I had when I got access to the quest and, surprise, that also is the case of the beginning of The Sacrifice where the unarmed operator one-shot Umbra the first time you face it and two-shot it the second time.

2 things: punctuation; and Howl of the Kubrow. You get it early, but can't complete it until you have progressed quite a way. Which is good because you will have a tough time keeping Mr. Snookums in good condition if you lack resources.

39 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

From the point of view of an unspoiled player getting there while playing casually, this is a mid-game quest.

You mean, one who also doesn't understand how the Codex works, was particularly unattentive to the story progression, skipped whole swaths of content while trying to rush through the main storyline, and expected to be spoon-fed the whole time? 🤔 Yeah I would agree with you about that. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by (PS4)guzmantt1977

[Thelk641]

il y a 58 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

LOL no, you look at the order in the codex

You mean the thing where after I finished the Sacrifice I had two or three lines of blurred out quests that I've yet to unlock and had no way to know if they were main quests or not and the place where the Sacrifice is between Hidden Messages and The Sands of Inaros even though neither is part of the main quest ? So, how is this order supposed to tell me anything exactly ?

 

il y a 58 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

2 things: punctuation;

Come on...

 

il y a 58 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

and Howl of the Kubrow

Which requires the Earth to Mars junction, which is the next big "Next target" in your quest list when you get Howl as you've already unlocked Mercury which is a dead end. So you finish your junction, get the quest, do it, part way through it tells you that you need an item, you look at your quest and you have a big "here is how you get it". Is it comparable to The Sacrifice ? No.

And even if it was, when you're starting The Sacrifice, you've just finished : the Apostasy Prologue (which isn't in the Codex until you start it...), Chains of Harrow, the War Within, the Second Dream, and Natah, which all revolve around the same topic, and all are doable when you get them so again, even if it was, it's an exception, not the norm.

 

il y a 59 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

while trying to rush through the main storyline

I wasn't rushing ! For #*!% sake. No I didn't wait until I had gotten every Prime frame and every Prime weapon and every mod and started to use riven to start the main quest, is that a problem to you ? Should I have waited MR 27 to do Natah or even Howl of Kubrows maybe ? Is that how you're supposed to play Warframe ? Because as far as I'm concerned, it's not.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Which requires the Earth to Mars junction, which is the next big "Next target" in your quest list when you get Howl as you've already unlocked Mercury which is a dead end. So you finish your junction, get the quest, do it, part way through it tells you that you need an item, you look at your quest and you have a big "here is how you get it". Is it comparable to The Sacrifice ? No.

You know where Saturn is, right? And what resources you find there? No?

Oh well. I'm sure that by the time you did the Mars junction, you must've done all of your Saturn farming already. 🙄

9 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Come on...

See? You used three of them now. Good start. 

 

11 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

I wasn't rushing ! For #*!% sake. No I didn't wait until I had gotten every Prime frame and every Prime weapon and every mod and started to use riven to start the main quest, is that a problem to you ? 

Yup, you seem to be all worked up about something. Maybe you should calm down a bit? Probably take up a relaxing hobby like video games or something? 

Let's ask a couple of questions, shall we:

How long have you been playing? 

How far have you gotten? 

Did you complete all of the nodes leading up to Sedna junction, and if not, what percentage would you say that you did? 

Did you farm and build all of the warframes along the way, what percentage would you say you've done? 

What was your MR? 

How much time did you spend in Cetus doing the lower level bounties and what standing do you have with the Ostrons? 

Did you farm focus lenses? 

How far along in your Focus progression are you? 

What about the Syndicates, how are they treating you, how many are maxed out? 

How about old Simaris, and his standing? 

Do you understand that having burned through the majority of your quests, that took the better part of 6 years to make, you may have a bit of a wait ahead of you before new content comes along when you're all done? 

 

When you're done with those maybe we'll have a clearer idea if you did rush. Maybe I'm totally wrong about it. Maybe I'm not. 

[Thelk641]

il y a 12 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

You know where Saturn is, right? And what resources you find there? No?

You know where Mars is, right ? And what resources the junction to Mars gives you ? No ?

il y a 38 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

See? You used three of them now. Good start. 

The word you're looking for isn't "punctuation", it's "dot". Commas are also punctuation.

il y a 13 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Do you understand that having burned through the majority of your quests, that took the better part of 6 years to make, you may have a bit of a wait ahead of you before new content comes along when you're all done? 

This is off topic.

 

For the rest, Warframe forces you to do things in a certain order : some quests are locked behind junctions, some junctions are locked behind quests. Getting to Sedna rewards you with The War Within, which you have to do to get to The Sacrifice. Do we agree on that ?

I'm going think that the answer would be yes. So, you get to The War Within, if you're me and you're interested by the main story, you do the quest. You don't go and finish the entirety of the star chart, go farm riven, go say hello to the Conclave, max out every syndicate, finish every single focus school, replay the entire game unmodded because why not and then do the quest, no, you get a quest, you do it. Is that rushing ? No, because the quest is a reward for having played through everything up until now, it has an MR requirement (MR5) and nothing tell you that you shouldn't do it until you've reached 3k hours in-game, so it's not stupid to think that now is a good time to do it. Then, when you're done, and if you're me you've loved the quest, you unlock Chains of Harrow, which only ask you to finish the Void first, so you do that, which requires to go and unlock Eris. Again, not rushing, just doing things in the order that is being asked by the game. Again, not farming every single thing possible and coming back six month later, because I do care about the quests. Again, if you're me, you loved this quest and you unlock the personal quarter (which you build) and with it, the Apostasy Prologue, which goes quick. Now, you've unlocked The Sacrifice.

How is doing it "rushing" ? You've worked your way through the entire starchart, as asked by the game, done every quest on the way, your weapons are killing everything you've faced since you went and farmed a little bit of nightmares and (a lot of) void, you have a crap ton of ressources which I decided to invest in my own little clan that now has most of the research unlocked, and for all of that, the game rewards you with a quest. But wait, you shouldn't do it. First, you must complete your list, because... ? Well no, you don't have to, that's not how any videogame works, really. There is nothing nor in the game nor outside that says that building every single frame is a requirement to play The Sacrifice, so why would I have done this first ? These are different path : you can decide to do the quest first, you can decide to do the frames first, you can decide to go farm plat first, you can decide to do whatever you want : you CAN, not you MUST. The same way you can be a completionist but that doesn't mean that someone who isn't is doing things wrong.

 

Now again, up until The Sacrifice, every single quest works in its own environment. Natah starts with a big blue enemy spawning in front of you and the Lotus going crazy. Every other either comes directly after a finished quest or comes from a junction. These quests are integrated into the playing experience : you progress both through the quests and the game at the same time, and in that sense, sending you to The Quills before doing the Sacrifice makes sense, or it would if it was actually a requirement. Add a first step of the Sacrifice that sends you to The Quills, or even just add a "you need reputation lvl 2 with The Quills to play The Sacrifice" and there we go, I'm out, no more angry me talking about this quest. But that's not the kind of information you're given in-game.

[mikakor]

Weren't we on the topic of the ducat cost...?

Edited December 3, 2018 by mikakor

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

Weren't we on the topic of the ducat cost...?

 

43 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

ikr this thread is definitely derailed.. >_>

I like chocolate cupcakes. How about you guys?

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I love any kind of sweets tbh.. I'm just a sweet guy, you know? 🙂

Give me a red velvet cupcake/cake and I'll be tame.

[mikakor]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)JaysInc_ said:

Give me a red velvet cupcake/cake and I'll be tame.

i will take a chocolate cupcake please, they are just delicious.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

You know where Mars is, right ? And what resources the junction to Mars gives you ? No ?

Not the nano spores needed to complete Howl of the Kubrow quest. You knew that right? No? 

 

2 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

Again, not rushing, just doing things in the order that is being asked by the game.

Clearly you didn't think so because of the difficulties you faced. 

2 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

How is doing it "rushing" ? 

Because you've done a tiny fraction of the content in the game, but wanting to do something that you can only do at the upper echelons of the star chart. 

 

And now you are upset because you think that something that should be pretty trivial is difficult. That's exactly the same problem as the rest of the people complaining about the building cost of the sword: they're making a big deal out of doing something that most people aren't bothered by. 

The Ducats might seem like a huge grind, but if you use your head and pay attention, they may represent a fraction of what you can get from a single item. 

If you have a high value part, sell it, and use the plat to buy junk Primes and trade those. 

If that's too complicated, you can easily grind out the Ducats by cracking relics. 

And for many people who haven't been rushing around trying to focus on one thing, then they may already be in a position to shrug it off as soon as they complete the quest. 

That's balanced. 

[Thelk641]

Il y a 3 heures, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Not the nano spores needed to complete Howl of the Kubrow quest. You knew that right? No? 

"A single Incubator Core is given as a reward for completing the Earth > Mars Junction. This reward was introduced in update 23.1 due to "far too many people struggle[ing] with the crafting of an Incubator Core in the 'Howl of the Kubrow ' quest"." (source : the wiki page for incubator cores)

So I'm confused, the egg is farmable on Earth, the core is from the Mars junction (which again, is the next big objective once you start the quest) and that's it for the items that the quest requires as far as I can see... so if it doesn't involve crafting, why would you need nano spores ?

(by the way, update 23.1 is from July 2018, so this is what DE currently wants and clearly, if searching for the planets where you can find nano spores and control modules for a quest is too much work in their mind, I don't see how having to remember a random NPC's dialogue isn't...)

 

Il y a 3 heures, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Clearly you didn't think so because of the difficulties you faced. 

When did I say that I wouldn't have gone to the Quills had I known where they were and that I was supposed to do that before The Sacrifice ? Because I think I said the exact opposite :

Il y a 6 heures, Thelk641 a dit :

Add a first step of the Sacrifice that sends you to The Quills, or even just add a "you need reputation lvl 2 with The Quills to play The Sacrifice" and there we go, I'm out, no more angry me talking about this quest.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Thelk641

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Because of this thread, I now want the next story weapon to include plat in the crafting list.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 12 minutes, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv a dit :

Because of this thread, I now want the next story weapon to include plat in the crafting list.

I hope the parasecis will be mandatory for the next quest.

The chocolate cupcakes storm would be priceless.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

"A single Incubator Core is given as a reward for completing the Earth > Mars Junction. This reward was introduced in update 23.1 due to "far too many people struggle[ing] with the crafting of an Incubator Core in the 'Howl of the Kubrow ' quest"." (source : the wiki page for incubator cores)

So I'm confused, the egg is farmable on Earth, the core is from the Mars junction (which again, is the next big objective once you start the quest) and that's it for the items that the quest requires as far as I can see... so if it doesn't involve crafting, why would you need nano spores ?

(by the way, update 23.1 is from July 2018, so this is what DE currently wants and clearly, if searching for the planets where you can find nano spores and control modules for a quest is too much work in their mind, I don't see how having to remember a random NPC's dialogue isn't...)

Ahhhh so you're that new, rushed through the content, expect to be spoon-fed at all times, and wonder why you find some content difficult? 

Yeah don't think that there's much help anyone can give you. 

 

4 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

When did I say that I wouldn't have gone to the Quills had I known where they were and that I was supposed to do that before The Sacrifice ? Because I think I said the exact opposite :

Had you not rushed through the content you might have noticed it along the way and figured it out. But, you did and now you regret it, and want to blame DE for the choices you made. 

 

Welp, at least it's pretty easy to get the 1000 ducats for the sword. You may have some issues with getting the shards unless you want to be carried. 

[VocalMagic]

keep currencies out of crafting.

If you're making me use currencies in crafting, it better be a swag gun that shoots that currency.

And more importantly do not make the story go "You finished the quest! Yaaaaay! gimmemoney"

[SilentMobius]

3 hours ago, VocalMagic said:

keep currencies out of crafting.

If you're making me use currencies in crafting, it better be a swag gun that shoots that currency.

And more importantly do not make the story go "You finished the quest! Yaaaaay! gimmemoney"

Any counter is a currency, all crafting is, is reducing a number on a set of counters to get a thing.

Ducats are like credits, alloy plates, Orokin Cells, etc, etc. They all come from just playing the game.

Platinum is the only IRL money currency I.E. one that is not spontaneously generated by game systems, someone has to buy it..

The Paracesis doesn't require plat, it requires ducats, there is nothing special or problematic about that.

Edited December 4, 2018 by SilentMobius

[mikakor]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

I hope the parasecis will be mandatory for the next quest.

The chocolate cupcakes storm would be priceless.

it would be absolutely beautiful. which makes me think i should forma it.

[VocalMagic]

14 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Any counter is a currency, all crafting is, is reducing a number on a set of counters to get a thing.

Ducats are like credits, alloy plates, Orokin Cells, etc, etc. They all come from just playing the game.

Platinum is the only IRL money currency I.E. one that is not spontaneously generated by game systems, someone has to buy it..

The Paracesis doesn't require plat, it requires ducats, there is nothing special or problematic about that.

Alright, if counter=currency, then,
As a currency are a currency which is specific to one specific shop, and that makes them a currency unlike all other currencies.
It is a currency that is obtained from another valuable currency, worth a currency people spend real-life currency to obtain.
This specialized currency has an inconsistent conversion rate because of the nature of the current trading system, because the currency-to-npc in exchange for currency is not always in line with the value of the real-life currency people would spend to obtain premium currency they would exchange for the currency you need to get the specialized currency.

And now, to simplify that.

Prime parts can be exchanged for currency, or they can be deleted for currency. This causes people to choose between "Do I exchange for currency which costs real currency, or do I delete it and gain a counter for a specific thing?" Because the potential amount of ducats vs potential amount of plat differs from prime part to prime part, and even varies over time, this choice is more difficult, requiring a knowledge of the game's current economy or an app that would compile this information for you.

This means that the opportunity cost has actual monetary value. This opportunity cost is compounded in the crafting cost of the Paracesis, a weapon whose blueprint was given as a "reward" for a quest "prologue". And because it's only a blueprint, you don't get a weapon slot for it either. Or an Orokin Catalyst, but the Orokin Catalyst has a way to be obtained without a platinum cost, so we'll throw out the Ducats-platinum opportunity cost for that. The loss of weapon slot (compared to other quest rewards), however, can only be recouped by spending more platinum, so that adds to the opportunity cost.

This makes the Paracesis more of a way to remove both existing platinum and potential platinum from the game, rather than an actual quest reward.
And that's not even going into the projected platinum value of future Baro Ki'Teer items.

But it might make DE's ducat costs for those lower, so it might not be a bad thing?

TL;DR- Paracesis is a resource sink disguised as a reward, and not rewarding at all.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

TL;DR- Paracesis is a resource sink disguised as a reward, and not rewarding at all.

This makes it no different from any of Baro's offerings.

Prime+ quality gear costing ducats as a means to craft...seems legit.

Now, if DE were to employ this currency for crafting regularly....That would be a problem imo.

[VocalMagic]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

This makes it no different from any of Baro's offerings.

Prime+ quality gear costing ducats as a means to craft...seems legit.

Now, if DE were to employ this currency for crafting regularly....That would be a problem imo.

It would also be fine, if you weren't awarded the blueprint as, you know, a quest reward. Something you elected into obtaining, rather than "Yaaaay! You beat the quest! Here, start a quest for Prime Parts!"

[Thelk641]

Il y a 8 heures, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Ahhhh so you're that new, rushed through the content, expect to be spoon-fed at all times, and wonder why you find some content difficult?  

I say no other main quest isn't doable when you get it > you say Howl can't be done when you get it > I tell you it can be done, because of the Junction > You say it needs resources > I show you it doesn't > Therefore I am a bad player.

You're just a troll and I wasted my time talking with you.

 

il y a 46 minutes, SilentMobius a dit :

Platinum is the only IRL money currency I.E. one that is not spontaneously generated by game systems, someone has to buy it..

Except from the player point of view plat is farmable, therefore it is exactly like any other resources. The only thing that isn't would be if the next main quest was a Tennocon or Twitch Prime exclusive.

 

il y a 18 minutes, VocalMagic a dit :

TL;DR- Paracesis is a resource sink disguised as a reward, and not rewarding at all.

Thank you.

[Rakosta_Kai]

49 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

It would also be fine, if you weren't awarded the blueprint as, you know, a quest reward. Something you elected into obtaining, rather than "Yaaaay! You beat the quest! Here, start a quest for Prime Parts!"

I don't recall Ballas putting an Ocucor to your head telling you to build it either (....not like that would be much of a threat anyway).

There is no quest, or endeavor in this game that doesn't have an element to farming in it...Paracesis is no different.

...The difference, in this case, is that the player that kills alot of Eidolans and does alot of relic runs already has less to do to get it early.

 

Don't want to invest in it?... Don't.

But don't grouse about it either.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Padre_Akais

[Thelk641]

il y a une heure, Padre_Akais a dit :

don't recall Ballas putting an Ocucor to your head telling you to build it either

We don't know yet if it will be a requirement for the next main quest or not. If it isn't, then you're right, player can choose to invest in it or not, but if it's required then no, that argument doesn't work.