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ChillyWilly

The New Sword Crafting Cost

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On 2018-10-12 at 7:20 PM, ChillyWilly said:

I don't think you understand the situation, Nothing should be beginner friendly, I know.

But Ducats itself have a value, Just like platinum

 

and I have to disagree that 1000 Ducats are easy to get, If you got lucky and hit 10 Rare in a row, or get uncommon every time, sure. but it very unlikely

 

You can say "I have 8000 platinum, 50 platinum for a weapon is not bad" But no, it is bad when you bring CURRENCY into a crafting cost.

I have quite alot of plat and I will not pay 50-100 platinum for that new Shotgun as "Crafting Cost". Its just doesn't feel right

What about every weapon costing credits to craft?

I think kuva as a crafting cost is as weird as ducats but neither put me off. Sounds like it's more personal preference issue than a real reason.

And like many have said, 1k ducats is not that hard to get. You get 1 uncommon in average 2 relic openings, that makes like 60 ducats per 2 runs. Average of 33 runs discounting rare rewards, that's 2 hours 12 minutes of relic openings for 4 minute captures or exterminates or even rescues, and another 2 and a half hours to get those relics. 5+ hours total. Way more than your average weapon crafting cost but way, way less than stuff like Hema research costs. 5 hours out of all the hours people pour to warframe isn't that much.

Oh yeah, and if you think ducats this scale is a bad grind, I'd like to see you grind the endo for sacrificial mods without arbitrations and Vodyanoi Sedna. Much grindier than this, and you want those sacrificial mods to your paracesis for extra sentient damage, maybe on the same level if you go arbitrations and Vodyanoi.

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14 hours ago, SilverRook said:

lol "ducats are too hard"....... be thankful its not 100 nitain.

#trolololol

got 212 Nitain, So I guess its better

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21 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

What about every weapon costing credits to craft?

I think kuva as a crafting cost is as weird as ducats but neither put me off. Sounds like it's more personal preference issue than a real reason.

And like many have said, 1k ducats is not that hard to get. You get 1 uncommon in average 2 relic openings, that makes like 60 ducats per 2 runs. Average of 33 runs discounting rare rewards, that's 2 hours 12 minutes of relic openings for 4 minute captures or exterminates or even rescues, and another 2 and a half hours to get those relics. 5+ hours total. Way more than your average weapon crafting cost but way, way less than stuff like Hema research costs. 5 hours out of all the hours people pour to warframe isn't that much.

Oh yeah, and if you think ducats this scale is a bad grind, I'd like to see you grind the endo for sacrificial mods without arbitrations and Vodyanoi Sedna. Much grindier than this, and you want those sacrificial mods to your paracesis for extra sentient damage, maybe on the same level if you go arbitrations and Vodyanoi.

I have all sacrificial mods and umbral mods maxed without doing them, Whats your point.

I just hate ducat farming

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11 minutes ago, ChillyWilly said:

I have all sacrificial mods and umbral mods maxed without doing them, Whats your point.

I just hate ducat farming

The point is it can easily be more time-consuming than ducats.

Oh so it's a personal preference. You know there's a lot of stuff in this game a lot of people don't like but still play it. Wisp farming, mining and fishing, archwing, different mission types like interception and defection, low level content, Limbo, Saryn, cheese meta... your preference is just one of them and probably not very popular. If DE catered to all of those personal preferences the game would be much less diverse farm-wise. And unlike wisps, you can actually buy trash prime parts for dirt-cheap so you're much better off than some people. You can just farm platinum in one of the numerous other ways and buy the prime parts for ducats without opening a single relic yourself.

Yet you come to forums and complain.

You know there's a limit of how much devs of any game can cater to different preferences without hurting the game. DE did a damn good job by making the most content purchasable so you can farm whatever you actually want and skip almost anything you don't like farming.

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5 hours ago, ChillyWilly said:

got 212 Nitain, So I guess its better

Lol so you have done the long slog grind of hoarding nitain.... But complain about getting ducats...loooool.

Do you know how many ducats you can get in the time it takes to get 4 nitain? Lol

Of course you do, but you're not here for that you're just here to whine.

 

You know in the time it's taken you to make this thread. You could have gotten 1000+ ducats lol

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On 2018-10-14 at 4:00 AM, Nesodos said:

What you don't understand is that there is IN FACT a difference between the statistical propability of receiving the reward you are looking for.

You don't understand how statistical probability works then. An item has a X% drop rate. That drop rate is the same for every person in the game because it is the drop rate for an item in the game and everyone is playing the exact same game. The drop rates are set by the game developer. So there is no difference in that regard. That a person happens to get it on their first or second attempt versus another person who happens to get it on their 100th attempt does not change the probability of getting the item since each time a person plays a particular mission, it is an independent occurrence that is not, at all, influenced by the previous occurrence.

On 2018-10-14 at 4:00 AM, Nesodos said:

Grind is not just "repeat this task until this event occurs", grind is a concept full of mathematics and psychology(on a Dev side) and TIME is part of the grind investment per item.

The bolded is EXACTLY what grind is. Player psychology has absolutely nothing to do with it, and is a red herring at best. 

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On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Lets be real, No one would spend that much ducats to get that weapon... Even it have some sort of power to defeat sentients

Yeah, let's be real. Some players already have, and many more will, including me. Spending 1k Ducats on a weapon is a little steep, but for long-time players/Baro enthusiasts, 1k Ducats is not a huge deal, especially when the sword isn't limited-time like Baro is. You can spread your grind out as thin or as thick as you like. But hey, if you don't want it, don't craft it. Nobody's forcing your hand here. Maybe it'll be relevant in quests down the line, but those are (probably) many months away.

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

This is a unique case when you are putting a currency into a crafting cost.

Well, yes and no -- it kinda depends where you draw the line on what a "currency" is. People are equally (even more so) concerned about Kuva, enough to think of it as a currency, but numerous weapons require it as a crafting ingredient. Ducats are a currency in that you trade to an NPC to get other stuff, but Ducats themselves are not tradeable to other players. Ducats just exist to liquidate the value of Prime parts so that Baro doesn't have to ask for specific parts for trade.

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Ducats are not easy to get, after the new relic system and not old void keys.

Ducats are very easy to get. I will regularly forget a Baro weekend is coming up, then farm enough Prime fodder in a couple casual hours to snag 2-3 of his items. If I were serious about it I could probably clear his inventory on a regular basis. And put away that dumb Void Key argument. As evidenced by the steep drop in Prime prices after the release of Void 2.0, prime parts are far easier to get with Relics.

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Ducats fodder is harder and harder to get since you only get 1 prime item per Relics (Taking the Relic Farm can takes 5 Minutes on average) it would take around 335 Minutes or 6 Hours and 35 Minutes getting relics and come up with worse case scenario of getting Commons

Several things wrong with this:

  1. You're ignoring the fact that we get waaaaay more Relics in normal missions than we used to get Void Keys. Relics are in abundance.
  2. You're ignoring the fact that players can pick the most valuable of up to four different rewards per mission rotation, rather than being stuck with what the reward was in Void 1.0.
  3. You're ignoring the fact that in Void 1.0, the drop tables were littered with rewards that had no Ducat value. It was not rare to do a 20-minute Survival and have only Fusion Cores to show for it. With Relics you have the occasional Forma as a reward, but there are tons of Relics that don't and that guarantee a Ducat-value reward, and you can matchmake with like-minded players to ensure your Ducat grind is always producing something. That couldn't be said of the old Void.
  4. You're assuming for your math that a person who has made it all the way to the Chimera prologue -- having unlocked Uranus, completed all the major quest lines up through Natah, Second Dream, War Within and Sacrifice -- is somehow starting from zero in their Relic acquisition, that they don't have tons and tons of Relics laying around from just playing the game. We all have bunches of Relics to burn through. I do, and you do. Even after building all the stuff they offer, I have 35 Neo M1s and 47 Neo S7s in my inventory long after I stopped hunting for them. That's over 80 Relics (no Forma drops from them, btw) that I've received just passively from casual Public missions or farming for stuff that wasn't Relics.
On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Lets put it this way. If DE comes up with a New Shotgun, and you need to use 50plat as crafting cost, would you do it? Its pretty much the same.

It's completely different. Platinum is a paid currency, which is only acquired by someone paying real-world money for it at some point. Ducats are acquired purely from gameplay. The fact that Platinum and Ducat-value items are tradeable is meaningless. That's like saying Gara is pay-to-play because she requires fish parts to craft, fish are tradeable, and players are able to trade Plat for those fish.

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

You can earn Ducats and Platinum.

You can earn Ducats by playing the game. You cannot earn Platinum by playing the game. I repeat, you cannot earn Platinum. It can only be acquired by buying it, or having it traded to you from other players who bought it. Just because you played the game with the goal of gaining platinum doesn't mean it's earned in the same way non-payed resources are.The game is constantly generating new Prime parts from gameplay. The game does not generate new Platinum from gameplay. Your assertion is absurd.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

You don't understand how statistical probability works then. An item has a X% drop rate. That drop rate is the same for every person in the game because it is the drop rate for an item in the game and everyone is playing the exact same game. The drop rates are set by the game developer. So there is no difference in that regard.

Thats exactly what I said in my earlier posts but ok, nice you got here too. Maybe you should actually read the entire posts before commenting.

Quote

What you don't understand is that there is IN FACT a difference between the statistical propability of receiving the reward you are looking for.
This shows very well when farming for prime part X with the dropchance Y locked behind another relic that has the chance Z to drop itself.
The more layers of grind needed for item X the more time you need to invest into it. (similar to a 2% drop chance in rotation C of the old void keys)

There was not a single indication that dropchances are not global for all players. The entire subject revolved around how you need to statistically invest more time farming said item X (aka more grind needed than farming for the relic itself and this isn't even considering the RNG factor on top)

Brought to you by Page 3:

On 2018-10-12 at 8:33 PM, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Grind is grind. To try and distinguish one form of grind from another is just silly.

People who actually know what they are talking about would disagree here (even the exact definition of grind is not entirely agreed up and has such a wide range that this statement can't be right)

1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

The bolded is EXACTLY what grind is. Player psychology has absolutely nothing to do with it, and is a red herring at best. 

If you think that the amount of grind set by the devs for each item has nothing to do with psychology then I am afraid that you are not able to look past the facade of F2P games.(because the grind factor in this game got established by the DE to ensure someone will use the luxury of platinum to speed up their experience)

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On 2018-10-12 at 11:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Lets be real, No one would spend that much ducats to get that weapon... Even it have some sort of power to defeat sentients

Uh... so am I a no-one?

Spoiler

Me and MANY other players, that is...

 

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While I am a 'veteran' player, I didn't have any ducats at all when I completed Chimera. Not one. Zero. Zilch. Nor did I have Prime junk parts either, never have. I've tended to be either lucky on my drops, or managed to trade on the market, and I don't tend to run fissures for fun. What Prime parts I had were all ones I wanted to hold on to. Since I have a fairly large supply of plat right now, I ended up buying about 100 plat worth of prime parts off someone and trading them in for ducats. Eidolon shards weren't actually a problem, I had plenty left over from running Tridolons at some point with clannies. 

Honestly I just found the Ducats a plane weird choice of crafting requirement. Seriously, why ducats?

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Craftable "High End" items is a point where DE has no other choice but to spoil things with some players. It has to be an item that needs more than 500 Salvage, 1k Rubedo and a Nitain Extract.

This item is also not meant to be new player friendly. This is the point I simply don't get it why ppl complain about farming 1k Ducats. The issue might be that they don't want to farm and crack relics. So would it be better to replace the 1k Ducats with 300 Cetus Whisps 500 Mutagen Samples or 50k Cryotic? No because of personal aversion there's always someone who says: "It's crap to farm [enter resource here] because I do this and I do that but I but I don't like to farm this one in particular.

You need 1k Ducats. Just farm for it, it doesn't hurt.

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3 hours ago, Birkenhoff said:

Craftable "High End" items is a point where DE has no other choice but to spoil things with some players. It has to be an item that needs more than 500 Salvage, 1k Rubedo and a Nitain Extract.

This item is also not meant to be new player friendly. This is the point I simply don't get it why ppl complain about farming 1k Ducats. The issue might be that they don't want to farm and crack relics. So would it be better to replace the 1k Ducats with 300 Cetus Whisps 500 Mutagen Samples or 50k Cryotic? No because of personal aversion there's always someone who says: "It's crap to farm [enter resource here] because I do this and I do that but I but I don't like to farm this one in particular.

You need 1k Ducats. Just farm for it, it doesn't hurt.

Please no.  Anything but Wisps 😆.

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Le 15/10/2018 à 06:51, BoarWarrior a dit :

5+ hours total.

For a story weapon.

 

We're at the point where people are just saying "it could be worse". Yes. That's also true for everything else ever done in the history of the universe, except maybe the big bang. Yes this weapon could cost 1k nitain, or 10k plat, or a million of 15 different resources, is it technically possible, would the code support it or could the devs make it so ? Yes ! Does that make it a good idea to lock a story weapon and probably future quests behind a 1k ducat plus 5 eidolon shards cost where every single story item before it was free ? No.

 

I mean, vet' are asking for more long term goal, and "every grind is the same thing", so here's an idea : why not make the Chimera quest reward the blueprint for an item that requires 4 components each with a 0.001% chance to drop on every lvl 1 - 5 enemies ? I mean, if you're not willing to forget about your current goal to go do a 5h long farm for the next main quest than you shouldn't be playing Warframe anyway, so why not make it even worse, separate the True ones from the rest ?

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21 hours ago, Nesodos said:

People who actually know what they are talking about would disagree here (even the exact definition of grind is not entirely agreed up and has such a wide range that this statement can't be right)

Still waiting for one of these supposed people to show up. Until then, I'm done.

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Honestly didn't have an issue getting required ducats. Wouldn't call it a grind.
Just relic runs which is one of the main tasks to do anyway ingame.

All there really is to do is farm relics, quickly use the, farm traces. Arbitrations. Sorties.

I'm actually glad that it was something like ducats which is a resource you get while doing what you were already planning to do. Not some annoying resource like wisps that all you do is farm that 1 resource and nothing else. Going out of your way instead of a resource that is commonly in the missions you are already doing.

1k is nothing really. Logging on to see Baro unexpectedly and soon to go while he has good mods just because i wasn't on much that week. That felt like a farm, but i had the added issue of a time limit.
 

If you are one of these people who needs everything now, and can't efficiently speedrun relics, then maybe pick the right frame and relic mission. Less then 5 minutes per run is easy in so many frames when you pick the right missions. I didn't even bother with grabbing prime parts to sell as early as i could because i didn't see the right relic missions for the right type of relic. I could've done it, but it would've taken longer, but i was more then willing to wait a day or 2 and do other things.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Still waiting for one of these supposed people to show up. Until then, I'm done.

Well, then please tell us your definition of grind but this time you should support it with facts

A quick reminder:

On 2018-10-15 at 5:42 PM, (PS4)abbacephas said:
On 2018-10-14 at 1:00 PM, Nesodos said:

Grind is not just "repeat this task until this event occurs"

The bolded is EXACTLY what grind is.

Using this definition, looking at a clock every 5 minutes and waiting for a specific time is grind too...

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Seriously I'm more angry about the eidolon shards we have to have for the sword. I get that it's the eidolon slayer or whatever but why do I need to kill Eidolons now for a weapon? I don't care about Eidolons and I never hunted one because I don't want to and if that sword is somehow mandatory for the next Quest I guess I'm the only who won't play it lol.

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13 minutes ago, Kiwibot said:

Seriously I'm more angry about the eidolon shards we have to have for the sword. I get that it's the eidolon slayer or whatever but why do I need to kill Eidolons now for a weapon? I don't care about Eidolons and I never hunted one because I don't want to and if that sword is somehow mandatory for the next Quest I guess I'm the only who won't play it lol.

Jeez, people are whining about everything. It's easy to get. Like, really easy. Go talk to konzu, chose the "terralyst hunt" and it will match you into a game with three other people that wanna do the same, and you'll probably get carried because they are easy to take down. In one night, maybe two, you have your shards. It is an item for people who are far enough in the game. Eidolons are for Late game, too. Stop complaining, and improve.

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Tbh I like the fact it has unusual requirements.

It’s  a special weapon.

maybe not stat wise, if you are looking at it in that simple black and white fashion but lore wise, it’s special.

a sentient killer, envisioned  by Ballas, creator of the warframes and the last true  Orokin. Designed to kill the lotus, his former lover and our mother. To forge it requires artefacts from the last Great War, symbols of those two long gone empires, Orokin ducats and eidolon shards.

you can’t look at this weapon with the eyes of an accountant, let some magnificence into you soul and appreciate what it represents.

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cmon man this is ballas' sword of course it's not gonna be cheap. you gonna build the "sentient slayer" without more time and effort than average? also if you've made it this far down the questline you should definitely already have a decent chunk of ducats saved up. and if not, you should be experienced enough to know how to wait for some things. you kids these days. back in my day we had to wait almost 3 years for umbra uphill both ways in the snow! and we were grateful for it!

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