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ChillyWilly

The New Sword Crafting Cost

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The difference between a "resource" and a "currency" in Warframe is meaningless. You can call Polymer Bundles a currency you use to buy energy restores from Ordis. You can call ducats a resource you use to make Prisma weapons. Sure, that's not how the game presents them, but it's functionally identical. So, saying "DE shouldn't make blueprints cost currency to make" doesn't really make sense.

Ducats are easier than ever to come by with ESO in the mix. I'm swimming in radiant relics and I don't even run ESO that often. Radiant relics means you get higher-ducat-cost rewards more. And the Void relic overhaul really did make the whole system better. Now, if you don't get a good roll of the dice, you can take your squadmate's. All of this more than makes up for the multiple-rewards-1-key system from before.

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1k ducats is not a lot. That's like buying two things from baro.

1k ducats is like a little over 20 uncommons which are 45 ducats each

or 10 rares which are 100 each. Or less with a combination of the two.

If you run a fissure for 20 minutes it will net you 4 drops.

and you should have a fair amount of excess primed junk parts you don't need anyways/.

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"I had to run about 15 missions that take less than 5 min each to get a brand new item for free"

 

Can't take internet laziness seriously I'm sorry I simply cannot.

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After Baro's Tennocon visit I've not spent a ducat I've earned really. At least I have something to spend them one now ( cause I certainly didn't spend them on his last visit~ )

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On 2018-10-12 at 12:20 PM, ChillyWilly said:

I don't think you understand the situation, Nothing should be beginner friendly, I know.

But Ducats itself have a value, Just like platinum

 

and I have to disagree that 1000 Ducats are easy to get, If you got lucky and hit 10 Rare in a row, or get uncommon every time, sure. but it very unlikely

 

You can say "I have 8000 platinum, 50 platinum for a weapon is not bad" But no, it is bad when you bring CURRENCY into a crafting cost.

I have quite alot of plat and I will not pay 50-100 platinum for that new Shotgun as "Crafting Cost". Its just doesn't feel right

i agree with your argument but i think you got the point all wrong. i think the actual prime parts hold value, and the ducats only hold value in terms of the void trader. either way, once you trade primes for ducats, they no longer hold real world value.

but say, best case scenario, you get 10 rare prime parts. i could either sell these parts for premium currency and get a lot of cool stuff or sell them for ducats and build one decent weapon. i would naturally keep all 10 rare parts to sell them for actual currency. but im still going to say that they can be a necessary resource used to build weapons, just not a lot should be required.

i just want to point out that we've brought up this case for Oxium, to which now more than thousands are required to make weapons. people didn't think it was such a big deal back then because they had stockpiles of the stuff. now, people are running low on this resource due to certain exploits that have been patched and new players are discouraged to farm for the resource to the point were only one dedicated player can finish researching dojo archwings.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

What "facts"? You haven't presented any "facts". You've provided subjective opinion. There is no difference between grinding for an hour and grinding for 10. The only difference is the length of time, not the grind.

Thats what I tried to communicate with "levels" of grind. The grind required for item x can be ranged from casual to hardcore grind(but I don't want to pin down on numbers right now), visualizing the time you statistically need to acquire said item..

What you don't understand is that there is IN FACT a difference between the statistical propability of receiving the reward you are looking for.
This shows very well when farming for prime part X with the dropchance Y locked behind another relic that has the chance Z to drop itself.
The more layers of grind needed for item X the more time you need to invest into it. (similar to a 2% drop chance in rotation C of the old void keys)


Grind is not just "repeat this task until this event occurs", grind is a concept full of mathematics and psychology(on a Dev side) and TIME is part of the grind investment per item.

To claim that time is a factor beyond the required grind for item X instead of being part of it is idiotic

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13 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Maybe i misspoke, you can't transform ducats into plat, but you can establish a correspondence in value between ducats and platinum.

You can establish a corresponding value between anything and plat in WF, not just ducats/prime parts. Everything you spend time on can be in correspondance to platinum because every second you spend doing other things than farming plat makes you lose out on possible profit. So if you dont grind affinity in fissures you are effectivly putting a platinum cost on leveling, same if you are grinding orokin cells or doing an alert for something.

Asking for 1k ducats is not different than them asking for x amount of y material because the time spent gathering x/y would prohibit you from grinding relics for prime parts/platinum. So the cost would be the same. And it isnt like you lose out on prime parts either by having to grind out 1k ducats. Like most people you likely have an abundance of relics that you will never ever have time to open anyways. You arent sitting there with only 20 relics and having a hard time deciding which one is most valueble, you likely sit there with hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands of relics, just collecting dust.

 

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21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You can establish a corresponding value between anything and plat in WF, not just ducats/prime parts. Everything you spend time on can be in correspondance to platinum because every second you spend doing other things than farming plat makes you lose out on possible profit. So if you dont grind affinity in fissures you are effectivly putting a platinum cost on leveling, same if you are grinding orokin cells or doing an alert for something.

Asking for 1k ducats is not different than them asking for x amount of y material because the time spent gathering x/y would prohibit you from grinding relics for prime parts/platinum. So the cost would be the same. And it isnt like you lose out on prime parts either by having to grind out 1k ducats. Like most people you likely have an abundance of relics that you will never ever have time to open anyways. You arent sitting there with only 20 relics and having a hard time deciding which one is most valueble, you likely sit there with hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands of relics, just collecting dust.

 

Actually there is a difference between ducats and other resources, while you can earn just about anything "incidentally", be it relics, polymers, argon, etc. Ducats are one of the few things that you have to have a targeted behaviour to obtain.

And it's a multi-layered affair, where you first need to obtain relics, which isn't too bad, since, like i mentioned, you do that more or less as a by-product of just normal play. But then you need to do openings, and for this it can be up to 67 just for a single item, that's over 2 hours doing captures. But that also depends on other RNG factors like the fissure missions available, and whether or not what drops is "junk" or you actually require those parts for crafting.

 

Also comparing it to Hema and the like is a bit of a stretch, since this one is a story reward, unlike those weapons. And it's not clear if we might require it for progression or not.

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14 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Lets take 2 extreme examples:

  • Limbo Prime systems: average value in warframe market is around 3 plat, and is a common drop, so 15 ducats, exchange rate = 5 ducats : 1 plat
  • Nova Prime Chassis: Average value in wfm is 230 plat, it's a rare drop, so 100 ducats, exchange rate = 0.43 ducats : 1 plat

So exchange can go from 0,4 to 5 ducats per 1 plat, just looking at these cases.

This neglects to consider prime junk that sells for around 2plat per item on PC, I believe. (If I'm misinformed please forgive me and quote this post with a more accurate figure and I will redo my math for anyone who just can't be bothered.) 

From my passing experience with prime junk items worth 15 - 45 ducats end up being the majority the mix, depending on the seller's inventory and desire for quick plat. 

So 1000 ducats (maximum 67 items) is probably going to run you 134 plat at most. If you get a fair number of the 45 plat items in your early trades that could run you as little as 45 plat. 

If you use a bit of sense in your trading, that single Nova Prime chassis you used in your example can realistically be expected to be worth somewhere around 1725 ducats

If you don't want the extra ducats and prefer to keep the extra plat then you can say that the Nova Prime chassis is worth 1000 ducats and 96 plat. 

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I too thought the 1000 ducats was a lot.  But I was just comparing it to how much Baro charges since that's all we've ever used it for.  Once I started going through my prime parts I realized pretty quick that I could come up with 1000 ducats easy.

Before Arbitration my go-to zone-out for hours playing was endless fissure missions.  You can level up frames/weapons, gain focus and have a chance at getting that rare part.  I never go in looking for something (unless it's the last part I need) I go in and just zone out.  Next thing you know you've racked up a ton of void traces and have a bunch of worthless prime parts.  aka Ducats.

I usually only sell stuff if I need a reactor, catalyist, inventory slot, etc. and when I do I only sell things that I can get 20 plat or more from.  Unless I really need a couple weapon slots right quick.  I would never try to sell 10 things for 2-3 plat each.  That's just too much of a hassle. So that leaves an enormous inventory of prime junk that actually adds up pretty quick.

I think, just like the 100% requirement for Arbitration, this is another attempt to get away from MR being the only requirement for progress. This rewards the people who didn't just blow through the game with MR25 being the only goal.  I'm not necessarily saying this is the case for you at all.  I'm just saying I get it.  And I applaud them for it.

 

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1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

Actually there is a difference between ducats and other resources, while you can earn just about anything "incidentally", be it relics, polymers, argon, etc. Ducats are one of the few things that you have to have a targeted behaviour to obtain.

Not true. People complain that this is a very specific resource unlike any other before, yet we have Nitain, Mutagen Mass, Fieldron, Cryotic, Forma etc. all of them require a very specific behavior to obtain.

And the other materials are only "incidentally" obtained if you happen to run a relic run, if you run anything else specifically to get the materials they are pretty much the same as ducats in this case, something that takes time away from grinding items that can bring you plat.

Also, it isnt so much about first getting the relics. You are talking about an item tied to the absolutley last quest available atm, which means everyone that is about to do that quest already has piles of relics or even ducats for that matter.

 

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ok after just reading the first 4 posts here i want to just laugh and tell the poster to stop being a whiney B**** ducats are easy to get. considering the fact that i just started playing again and anytime baro hits i can easily obtain enough ducats between visits to buy everything he has and have some to spare. Also i spend about 2k plat a week that i make on trades stop crying about costs and play the game.

Opening relics for ducats is easy do exterminates and dont be bad

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1 hour ago, Combatron said:

@SilverRookLOL this guy obviously never grinded a sibear or researched a hema for his clan

Long term goals in Warframe are Alien to some.  You see it with newer-Ish players who balk at Sibear, Focus School Costs, Login Rewards, etc.

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On 2018-10-12 at 11:10 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

I have 52k spare.ducats.. so what? Not everything needs to be beginner friendly.

Why would anyone have 52k ducats? No, seriously, what would you even spend them on? You could have left them as prime parts and at least had the option to trade them if you wanted. It's your game but don't pretend that having 52k ducats is anything but wasteful.

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Lol this thread alone probably contains more fun than 3 years of Warframe ssdd contents. 

Btw, where are those dudes who frequently nag devs to grind their own skinner boxes? 

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The way I see it is as follows.

I remember a while back when Cryotic and Oxium were introduced you could only get them from Excavations and Oxium Ospreys and someone on the forums chimed in with "That's not fair" Like it was any different to the rest of the game's 'Do A to get B to do C' equation.

You get relics from near enough every endless mission, spy, etc etc. You're bound to get duplicates of Prime gear that you're not going to need or can sell for more than a tuppence  running those relics and therefore ducats come as an alternative.

Baro up until now is the ONLY ducat sink available and his available items rotate, recycle and there's not always something 'new' or something needed in his stock, meaning you have a whole two weeks to continue building up ducats. Nothing in his stock comes close to costing 1000 ducats a pop.

Wouldn't worry about it. It's a one time purchase, you're always getting relics and therefore a means to get ducats.

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On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Lets be real, No one would spend that much ducats to get that weapon..

Well...I did.

 

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Ducats are not easy to get

I agree, but I got a lot of unused relics especially when Chroma Prime released from farming for 2 days so it was not that of a hassle for me to earn ducats. Also I just joined an endless defense fissure so I would get to open my relics and receive new ones.

 

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

If DE comes up with a New Shotgun, and you need to use 50plat as crafting cost, would you do it?

Yes, if its a crafting component but if its just to fasten the process, no. I will sell an item or two if I dont have plats.

 

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

or Change it to use Nitain or Argon instead.

Yeah, that would make it easier to get and it makes the weapon less more valuable.

 

On 2018-10-13 at 12:09 AM, ChillyWilly said:

Ducats SHOULD NOT be in a Crafting Recipe, THEY HAVE VALUE!

Yes, they have value but remember Chimera Prologue is for players who already completed a lot of tasks. So I think its not that hard for the others to farm 1,000 ducats.

Yes, you're going to waste some important prime parts but how about the things that you have already? mirage prime bp's? Lex prime bp's? etc..

I think patience is what you need, if farming an hour or two is painful for you then how about 30 mins, then turn some stuff that you dont want into ducats. Then do it again the next day if you don't wanna play for a few hours.

You don't have to race everybody for the weapon, so take your time.

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Looks like the obligatory try-hard forum warriors with little to no empathy for "lesser" players are out in force again to puff their chests out, jump to conclusions, and diminish others.

*slow clap*

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They arent like platinum though.... you can earn them in game without having to ever look at trade chat once.

Im looking forward to the ps4 100th Baro visit.  Ive been farming ducats for it and from what ive noticed, it does not take long to build them up

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1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

Looks like the obligatory try-hard forum warriors with little to no empathy for "lesser" players are out in force again to puff their chests out, jump to conclusions, and diminish others.

*slow clap*

You know what irony is, right? Because that looks pretty ironic. Especially where you came on the forums, called others something with the intent of diminishing them. 

I am pretty sure that you could have made a constructive point instead, wouldn't that have been better? 

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Are we unaware of how easy they make it to get ducats with rescue, exterminate or sabotage fissure runs? You can get the requirements easily just like that. After I finished the chimera prologue I had maybe 4 or 5 ducats when I realized the new melee required 1000 ducats. It didn't even take a second to realize that the amount needed could be acquired in less than an hour. You knew very well that Warframe is a game that involves grinding for resources so if you think that number is excessive and unreasonable you might be still getting used to it. NOW if you're a person who is not familiar with fissure runs than I guess I could see why that number of ducats could strike you the wrong way. You probably hate prepping for baro visits and feel like repeating the same runs back-to-back is draining. I can definitely agree with that but find yourself a nice playlist and an hour of the same mechanics will feel like 5 minutes. Or even group up with some friends and go on discord to socialize. 

The issue that I have seen as well in this thread is why they think it's okay to use ducats as a resource when it's a form of in-game currency similar to platinum. Although it is a type of in-game currency it cannot be purchased by real world currency so they can place it as a resource for crafting anything in the foundry. I honestly do not see this as being such a big deal and was quite surprised to see people arguing about it. 

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