Where is the vacuum apocalypse?

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Maybe the grind walls are result of vacuum. 

Either way vacuum grabbing 25 energy because I'm at 99/100 energy is detrimental to combat. 

When Hydroid has his big drop party and there is 375 energy on the ground, but your vacuum/energy consumption forces you to grab 15 orbs only granting a fraction of what you could have controllably collected. 

Vacuum is a 'set it and forget' it utility mod. And it shouldn't be. 

On topic of loot. Nekros should still be viable option for boss loot. 

It's really unfortunate that we were completely fine without vacuum until it got snuck in. 

 

It's a great mod for what it does, but once you reach 999,999 in a resource you realize you can finally scrap it for 15 endo or w/e it's worth.... 

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yup. You just ruined it. 😐

 

You just reminded DE that nerfing kavats is a possibility. You didn't realise that after a buff, there's often a nerf. And yes, now we are seeing more pets being used, and longer because until you get tired of bringing them back to life, you can keep them around. 

 

Yeah people still run Sentinels, but the shift is noticeable. All it would take for a nerf to be guaranteed is for a couple of the content creators to make a video titled "This Helminth Charger makes ALL other companions OBSOLETE!!!" or " DEAR DE, this build is why I NEVER use a Sentinel" 

I'm actually not expecting a nerf, while your not wrong about this trend, the only major issue lies with Sentinels survivability. Their utilities are still heavily desired, but why bring them in if they die accidentally from a blast or something.. And as soon as they die any regeneration mod is useless because they die as soon as they respawn.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

I'm actually not expecting a nerf, while your not wrong about this trend, the only major issue lies with Sentinels survivability. Their utilities are still heavily desired, but why bring them in if they die accidentally from a blast or something.. And as soon as they die any regeneration mod is useless because they die as soon as they respawn.

Well, you know what they say, not expecting it will make it a bit more of a surprise. 😉

And in the meantime I'll just keep passively scanning all the new content with a helios that kills stuff for me while I fish. 😊

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

so its just pointless epeen flailing over some stupid peoples stupid arguments. thats alright i guess?

Dude, chill down there. If you havent noticed it yet, this is nothing more than a joke, a basic discussion about absurdity.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Well, you know what they say, not expecting it will make it a bit more of a surprise. 😉

And in the meantime I'll just keep passively scanning all the new content with a helios that kills stuff for me while I fish. 😊

Ill take it with a grain of salt. 

Yea Helios and its glaive are actually pretty OP..  Lol I read this the wrong way initially. 

-some jokes in the extensive bug fixes list. 

"Fixed Grineer being pinned to walls looking like they are car salesman flailing around" (Eh something like that) 

 

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Didn't put vacuum on my kavat, why would I bother, every drop is pickable easily without it.

But I put the +30% duration on my smeeta, that's a useful mod.

[Learicorn]

On 2018-12-21 at 6:06 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Before starting this is not meant to be a serious discussion im just curious on what happened with the predictions of the many doomsayers.

Did people all changed to kavats, the economy crashed due to the ease of farming, the game become less skillfull due to not having to pick up stuff?

Where is the apocalyse i heard of for years?

People in a game's forums are stupid and always exaggerate things so they shouldn't be taken seriously!??! Oh wow who would've thought!

[(PSN)LawnMowingMonkey]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Ill take it with a grain of salt. 

Yea Helios and its glaive are actually pretty OP..  Lol I read this the wrong way initially. 

-some jokes in the extensive bug fixes list. 

"Fixed Grineer being pinned to walls looking like they are car salesman flailing around" (Eh something like that) 

 

Now that's a truly important thing, and I'm glad it's been fixed, those long nightmares about flailing car salesmen are finally over.

[JCBeastie]

On 2018-12-21 at 6:07 PM, mikakor said:

what my limit energy is 150, that i need to use a capacity that is 145 energy, and that i'm at 140... wait, i'll go vacuum this energy or... ho wait, i can't...

so i'm stuck without the ability the use my fourth, with a orb that i can't vacuum. i can only accept this kind of ideas if they are on a toggle. me, i will always want to absorb the orbs. they drop regularly enough, this isn't a problem.

If you have a an ability that you can only cast at your max energy you've got problems. Either way you could mod for more capacity, or efficiency. You can't do anything about wasting an orb because Vacuum doesn't care.

[mikakor]

16 minutes ago, JCBeastie said:

If you have a an ability that you can only cast at your max energy you've got problems. Either way you could mod for more capacity, or efficiency. You can't do anything about wasting an orb because Vacuum doesn't care.

I don't have a problem since I'm built for my second only. Look, if it is a toggle option, it's all good, because like that everyone is happy, but the way Vacuum works right now is perfectly fine for me.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

13 hours ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Maybe the grind walls are result of vacuum. 

Either way vacuum grabbing 25 energy because I'm at 99/100 energy is detrimental to combat. 

When Hydroid has his big drop party and there is 375 energy on the ground, but your vacuum/energy consumption forces you to grab 15 orbs only granting a fraction of what you could have controllably collected. 

Vacuum is a 'set it and forget' it utility mod. And it shouldn't be. 

On topic of loot. Nekros should still be viable option for boss loot. 

It's really unfortunate that we were completely fine without vacuum until it got snuck in. 

 

It's a great mod for what it does, but once you reach 999,999 in a resource you realize you can finally scrap it for 15 endo or w/e it's worth.... 

Meh. This is a very scenario-based generalization. In 99% of all missions vaccuum/fetch are fantastic since you are moving so quickly and don't have time to stop and manually walk over each dropped item. Sure, picking up an energy orb when you are almost at max energy is not efficient, but neither is having to stop and walk over that orb. At least one of them allows you to play efficiently though.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 31 minutes, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit :

Meh. This is a very scenario-based generalization. In 99% of all missions vaccuum/fetch are fantastic since you are moving so quickly and don't have time to stop and manually walk over each dropped item. Sure, picking up an energy orb when you are almost at max energy is not efficient, but neither is having to stop and walk over that orb. At least one of them allows you to play efficiently though.

You don't have to walk over everything to pick it up, use your parkour and it will be as fast as you can think of.

I often play Nekros without a vacuum and I'm still leading in damage and wait for my fellow Tenno at extraction after I picked up everything.

Vacuum isn't mandatory. And why use a precious mod slot on your kavat for something you can do by yourself (pick up stuffs) when you can have skills and boost you cannot put on yourself or at a huge cost ? 

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

On 2018-12-21 at 7:14 AM, Atekron said:

I wonder how many years they will need to make vacuum innate to warframe(with ability to switch on/off in game options) and free up a mod slot on companions

This is all we've ever really needed. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

You don't have to walk over everything to pick it up, use your parkour and it will be as fast as you can think of.

I often play Nekros without a vacuum and I'm still leading in damage and wait for my fellow Tenno at extraction after I picked up everything.

Vacuum isn't mandatory. And why use a precious mod slot on your kavat for something you can do by yourself (pick up stuffs) when you can have skills and boost you cannot put on yourself or at a huge cost ? 

So I often play Ember just because I can and I nuke enemies that I don't even see. Some of them die around corners I never go around, or through floors/ceilings, or behind me. So no matter how well your parkour you have to go out of your way to gather those drops. With vaccuum/fetch they just follow behind me until they catch up.

As for a single mod slot being precious on a Kavat, you already have 10 slots so I simply don't agree. Besides, for most content 1 mod isn't going to help that much.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 1 minute, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit :

So I often play Ember just because I can and I nuke enemies that I don't even see. Some of them die around corners I never go around, or through floors/ceilings, or behind me. So no matter how well your parkour you have to go out of your way to gather those drops. With vaccuum/fetch they just follow behind me until they catch up.

As for a single mod slot being precious on a Kavat, you already have 10 slots so I simply don't agree. Besides, for most content 1 mod isn't going to help that much.

Run animal instinct and it will show you the enemies and the drops, far more efficient than a vacuum.

And for a efficient kavat build every slot is important. Do I want to take off damage ? No. Armour or life link (I never put both) ? No. The 2 precepts and abilities duration augment ? No. Life steal for both sides ? No. Armour reaping and multiple enemies attack ? No. Just one room left for critical link, animal instinct or vacuum. Critical link is not so useful, vacuum can be done by hand without effort, animal instinct show me everything around me. Choice is easy.

[mikakor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Choice is easy.

choice is easy for YOU, but i find animal instinct extremely overrated. and so i use vacuum rather than AI. so you see, some people like this, and some people like that, and i had no problems at choosing vacuum over the rest.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Choice is easy.

You take off the armor rending mod because it barely does anything.

No matter what it only removes armor from one target and only that target takes the bonus damage too, since it cannot be controlled and the pet ai is wonky it offers you the least amount of bonus in any combat/non-combat sceniario.

[TARINunit9]

Hang on,

On 2018-12-21 at 12:06 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Did people all changed to kavats, the economy crashed due to the ease of farming, the game become less skillfull due to not having to pick up stuff?

Where is the apocalyse i heard of for years?

The anti-vacuum side said this? Seriously? This is news to me, because I was ON the anti-vacuum side and nobody ever said this

It was always painfully obvious that the amount of wealth lost by not having Carrier was minuscule, if it was even non-zero at all. But Carrier fanboys swore by vacuum anyway. They gave off the stereotype that they were TERRIFIED of missing ANYTHING. This left a bad taste in the mouths of people like me, and the anti-vacuum people were like "seriously dude? You're that paranoid?"

Then there was an argument that went something like "universal vacuum promotes sewer camping which is unhealthy for everyone involved". This fell out of favor when sewer camping itself disappeared due to a variety of reasons.

By the time the devs rolled out that 3m Warframe-based vacuum I decided that I personally don't actually care anymore, dropped apologies where relevant, and started studying melee weapon power creep instead. But enough about me, I want to focus on you guys, this in particular:

On 2018-12-22 at 12:07 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Ohh how much i hated that BS sacrafice argument.

"You cant get univac because the devs want you to choose, great combat allies vs great utility allies".

That is definitely a crap way of describing what's actually going on. Here's a short version of the correct way:

The mild tedium of picking up items isn't something the devs don't know about. It's not some flaw they're ignorant of until we scream loud enough. Of course they know about it. They put it there.

In a grindy game like Warframe, unlockable conveniences have two flavors: permanent (such as the Incubator upgrades) and budgeted (such as the original design for Vacuum). This is on purpose; the devs originally decided that the tedium of picking up loot was a necessary evil you had to suffer, or budget not suffering it against not having something else

Now since you guys probably hate me, let me just clarify with this conclusion: At the end of the day, it seems that the devs actually agree with the pro-vacuum side, seeing as how vacuum has shifted closer and closer to the permanent side of the spectrum and making you not have to suffer it as much anymore. And I am happy for you, I hope you enjoy it

Edited December 23, 2018 by TARINunit9

[Autongnosis]

@Fallen_Echo i found the vacuum apocalypse lad, look at this:

(from start to min 6:30)

I sometimes worry for the people of this world. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Autongnosis

[Zeclem]

22 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Dude, chill down there. If you havent noticed it yet, this is nothing more than a joke, a basic discussion about absurdity.

then put it in offtopic. this isnt the place for this. i guess disliking pointless epeen over a bunch of stupid people makes me "unchill". fine by me. 

@Autongnosisy u make me give that idiot a view? T-T but yeah anybody with their senses on them should know that aggp should be ignored on every topic imaginable. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Zeclem

[Fallen_Echo]

38 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

then put it in offtopic. this isnt the place for this. i guess disliking pointless epeen over a bunch of stupid people makes me "unchill". fine by me. 

@Autongnosisy u make me give that idiot a view? T-T but yeah anybody with their senses on them should know that aggp should be ignored on every topic imaginable. 

A thread only goes into offtopic if it talks about something what is entirely not part of warframe. Like your posts here, what are pretty much derail the main topic.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

On 2018-12-22 at 6:42 AM, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Nekros should still be viable option for boss loot. 

You have NO IDEA how much I would love to be able to Descrate boss corpses!!! Just typing that felt good.

Also, I'd love for Hydroid's Kraken to work on Bosses (as the killing blow) but I want new dialogue of the bosses screaming (Will Smith/Comedy style) as they are dangled & dragged around.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The anti-vacuum side said this? Seriously? This is news to me, because I was ON the anti-vacuum side and nobody ever said this

Not the sane side to be honest, by the time the sane arguments were rolled out most threads ended up filled with the following BS arguments:

1. Kavats are superior in all ways compared to sentinels so it would be unbalanced to give them vacuum because everybody would just switch to them.
2. "I can play without vacuum therefore you are just an entitled [insert random insult] who cant play without his crutch!"
3. Picking up items from the floor is a hard to learn skill by introducing univac DE would make their game even less skill demanding! (usually paired with nonsense slippery slope arguments.)
4. Vacuum should be deleted, the game is easy already we dont need it more easy!
5. Bugs, you cant have univac because vacuum is sometimes bugged.
6. Im against univac because........uhhh.........reasons! (literally just there to join the anitvac bandwagon)

And soo on, i wish i would made screenshots on all of them, they would make a nice compilation.

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

It was always painfully obvious that the amount of wealth lost by not having Carrier was minuscule, if it was even non-zero at all. But Carrier fanboys swore by vacuum anyway. They gave off the stereotype that they were TERRIFIED of missing ANYTHING. This left a bad taste in the mouths of people like me, and the anti-vacuum people were like "seriously dude? You're that paranoid?"

Now that was an interesting argument to have because i made my tests of how much stuff i get with and without vacuum and i lost atleast 40-50% of all loot on runs without vacuum. I almost have everything ingame nowadays but this amount for a newbie is staggering.

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

That is definitely a crap way of describing what's actually going on. Here's a short version of the correct way:

The mild tedium of picking up items isn't something the devs don't know about. It's not some flaw they're ignorant of until we scream loud enough. Of course they know about it. They put it there.

In a grindy game like Warframe, unlockable conveniences have two flavors: permanent (such as the Incubator upgrades) and budgeted (such as the original design for Vacuum). This is on purpose; the devs originally decided that the tedium of picking up loot was a necessary evil you had to suffer, or budget not suffering it against not having something else

Now since you guys probably hate me, let me just clarify with this conclusion: At the end of the day, it seems that the devs actually agree with the pro-vacuum side, seeing as how vacuum has shifted closer and closer to the permanent side of the spectrum and making you not have to suffer it as much anymore. And I am happy for you, I hope you enjoy it

Now i gotta say that this is actually a well made argument and only has 2 issues.

The first one is that the necesseary evil isnt even needed to be here. DE could have made the game in a matter where every kill grants everybody a set amount of loot on the end screen and balance it around when needed. Universal looting, just like how most developers handle the loot situation in similar high paced games.

The second is a design conflict. Warframe over the years have become faster and faster while the looting system has stayed in what i call "early 2000's mmo" levels. The two systems are simply not compatible, its like creating a racing game where the nitro boosts only spawn after you go below a certain speed treshold.

But those times have changed and now we got universal companion vacuum and some of the vacuum bugs also got fixed.

[ThumpumGood]

On 2018-12-21 at 2:06 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Before starting this is not meant to be a serious discussion im just curious on what happened with the predictions of the many doomsayers.

Did people all changed to kavats, the economy crashed due to the ease of farming, the game become less skillfull due to not having to pick up stuff?

Where is the apocalyse i heard of for years?

My house. Killed a hoover, a kirby and 2 Dyson's

[Zeclem]

39 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

A thread only goes into offtopic if it talks about something what is entirely not part of warframe. Like your posts here, what are pretty much derail the main topic.

theres no "main topic" to derail. general discussion is for discussions, and this is not a discussion. this is just saying "hahaha in your face" to a very small group of dumbasses.