please remove the equipping animation of heavy weapons...

[VeryTough]

Please remove the equiipping animation of archwing weapons... it's too long... it's like 3 seconds... i simply die every time i equip an arch wing weapon if i don't dash 2 kilometers away with operator... it's dumb...

[Kenmei]

Well, they are heavy for a reason.

If you die everytime you equip them, then don't try to use them while you're in los of a lot of enemies, or try to cc them before.

[VeryTough]

it a bad gameplay choice... it's simply annoying....

[Xirka]

If you are dying every time you use one, you are simply using it wrong. The animation is fine.

[VeryTough]

stuck 3 seconds without control of your characters is not fine... i disagree

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, VeryTough said:

it a bad gameplay choice... it's simply annoying....

It's part and parcel of the intended design of an ultimate ability. So there's two aspects - a further balancing element to prevent the activation being a get-out-of-jail free card and the aspect of making it 'feel' more significant. A heavier animation makes the weapon feel more significant.

The weapons still aren't proper ultimate powers by any means but that's the goal of their design. So elements that go towards it will be implemented.

[trst]

Then take cover or pull them out while sliding (as long as you hold slide and still have momentum you'll keep sliding during the animation).

[EDM774]

5 minutes ago, trst said:

Then take cover or pull them out while sliding (as long as you hold slide and still have momentum you'll keep sliding during the animation).

^THIS

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

36 minutes ago, Kenmei said:

Well, they are heavy for a reason.

If you die everytime you equip them, then don't try to use them while you're in los of a lot of enemies, or try to cc them before.

I mean, Didn’t DE put them in to deal with that exact scenario?

[Loza03]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean, Didn’t DE put them in to deal with that exact scenario?

True, but the same thing applies to Ultimates in Overwatch. They're designed to let you teamkill the enemy. Don't mean they're gonna just hand it to you on a silver platter.

[angias]

Does speed holster affect the speed?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

19 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

True, but the same thing applies to Ultimates in Overwatch. They're designed to let you teamkill the enemy. Don't mean they're gonna just hand it to you on a silver platter.

You’re comparing a PvE mechanic to a PvP mechanic.

Edited December 31, 2018 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Loza03]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re comparing a PvE mechanic to a PvP mechanic.

Alright.

Supers in Destiny also have a large startup in the exact same way, more then likely for the exact same reason.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Alright.

Supers in Destiny also have a large startup in the exact same way, more then likely for the exact same reason.

Again, PVP to PVE. While Destiny does have PVE as well their gameplay is also balanced towards PVP, unlike Warframe, where it’s so bad no one plays it.

[Loza03]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Again, PVP to PVE. While Destiny does have PVE as well their gameplay is also balanced towards PVP, unlike Warframe, where it’s so bad no one plays it.

I'd say there's a strong argument to Destiny's PvE being as major if not more important than PvP, but whatever. If you want a pure PvE game, sure.

Devil May Cry 4 and its special edition. All of the Pandora weapon's attacks to some degree save it's aerial shots, Judgement Cut End, the true versions of Drive, Slash Dimension F and C, Round Trip, Maximum Bet and Showdown are all moves designed to be powerhouses, several of which are AoE, with lengthy startup times. And don't forget you can actually get knocked out of most of these* from any attack and are rarely if ever afforded cover. Even Nero's Devil Trigger, which whilst a far less significant upgrade to what Archguns are supposed to be (although I'd say they're close right now) has a startup of a second or two, which whilst it features a knockback wave for enemies immediately around you, doesn't defend you against ranged attacks, attacks launched from out of its range that hit you during the startup or boss enemies, of which the latter two are exceedingly common in DMC4. Almost every common enemy has some form of lunge attack and there's a boss at the end of most stages.

Devil May Cry might not be a shooter, but let's be honest here - they're both action games at the end of the day, and these are all clearly intended to balance these abilities in an action setting. Because balance is needed in PvE games as when things are too fundamentally easy, they are less engaging because they can't let the player access the 'flow' state of mind, that mental condition where you're entirely focused on the activity itself and time loses meaning for you. Balance is a fundamental requirement for it. Games as an art form ought to strive for engaging gameplay in my opinion. Yeah, they're business as well at the end of the day, but if stuff like the dominance of Mario, the overwhelming Japanese popularity of Monster Hunter and the flop that was Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric has demonstrated anything, it's that engaging gameplay sells.

*Judgement cut end is the big exception to the rule of interrupted animations, although that has several requirements which include being in Devil Trigger and filling your 'concentration gauge' which requires you not to run in combat, get hit or miss attacks to not empty it and to land attacks, move slowly or stand perfectly still to fill it. And you can still get knocked out of it with sufficient damage.

[Lurua]

It reminds me of a change they made with the operators before the introduced the eidolons. They reduced the duration of animation that played whenever you went in and out of operator form. No one really enjoyed the operators prior to this and once the made said change the operator was more comfortable to use. I feel like that's the issue being encountered here

[Hypernaut1]

Why is thinking before you act such a big issue?

[Toppien]

hace 2 horas, angias dijo:

Does speed holster affect the speed?

thats a good question...

[Unbeholden]

I would love for this animation to only play once, i'm getting this every time my frame gets staggered. So while im running my valkyr on the profit taker mission and having to do revival trains on team mates then having to re-equip the gun and hope I don't get stagger trained for the next 30 seconds.

This wouldn't be so bad if I could cancel the equip, move then try again.

 

[Tyreaus]

I don't think it's bad to have it, but I think it's too long and bland. Multiple examples mentioned in the thread run for about 1.5 to 2 seconds approximately. They also tend to have quite a bit more flair. The time spent for the thing to fall from the sky is one thing, but juggling it for half the animation and getting a good grip isn't flashy or visually exciting the same way Destiny's ultimates have bright lights and such.

Putting it simply: it feels too long, no matter the technical things you can do to keep mobile with it.

Compare the current animation to something like the weapon landing in a drop pod and the Warframe having to rip it out of its alcove and boot the drop pod on its side. It might not have the same bright lights, but it's something happening for that wind-up window. Hell, you could probably get away with the current time window just by having that alone.

_{I'd still suggest doing that within 2 seconds, but the fact is still you can get away with more if you have stuff happening.}

[Almighty_Jado]

Honestly I really like the animation. Watching (and hearing) the weapon charge up and unfold is extremely satisfying. However I understand the frustration of being locked out of doing anything during this duration.

A happy medium where they just speed up the animation would probably be the best- pulling the gun out of nowhere with no animation would be the best from a gameplay standpoint but would likely look and feel less satisfying.

[MirageKnight]

3 minutes ago, Almighty_Jado said:

Honestly I really like the animation. Watching (and hearing) the weapon charge up and unfold is extremely satisfying. However I understand the frustration of being locked out of doing anything during this duration.

This right here. Summoning my Phaedra on the ground gives me a nice "Ohhhhhhhhhhhh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" vibe. Kudos to the animators for that.

On 2018-12-30 at 8:58 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

Why is thinking before you act such a big issue?

A lot of players have this "fire, ready, aim" mentality with regard to combat because they're impatient and want the fight over and done with as quickly as possible. 

Sad eh? Anyway...

I believe the idea behind the 3 second setup is that a smart player usually preps for a battle. You equip your big gun, max out your energy pool, yell "Leeeeeeeeeeeerrrrroy Jennnnnnnkins!" (or whatever) and then charge into the fray with big gun blazing away.

That said, 3 seconds is just fine, assuming you're not in the thick of a fight. If you're summoning a big gun in the thick of a fight with powerful enemies all around you...well...you're taking a risk and if you die as a result, that's your fault. Not the gun's.

Always plan your battles around the gear you have or intend to bring.

On 2018-12-30 at 6:39 PM, Loza03 said:

It's part and parcel of the intended design of an ultimate ability. So there's two aspects - a further balancing element to prevent the activation being a get-out-of-jail free card and the aspect of making it 'feel' more significant. A heavier animation makes the weapon feel more significant.

This.

On 2018-12-30 at 6:41 PM, trst said:

Then take cover or pull them out while sliding (as long as you hold slide and still have momentum you'll keep sliding during the animation).

And this....or as I said earlier, equip the gun before the fight even starts.

On 2018-12-30 at 6:33 PM, Kenmei said:

If you die everytime you equip them, then don't try to use them while you're in los of a lot of enemies, or try to cc them before.

And this as well.

Nice to see some common sense and helpful suggestions being offered here instead of the usual "you just need to git gud, scrub" comments that, sadly, are par for the course.

[Fireclaymore]

I kind of feel like they're bound to eventually make a warframe whose 4 is an exalted heavy gun. That aside, it'd be a good idea to alter the animation state in some way that actually makes it fun. If this game didn't have scaling enemies the way it does I'd have said give straight up invincibility with knockback(like Nero's DT ayyyyy), but given the current way cooldown got cutdown to 5 minutes and also appears to scale down depending on your ammo reserves it can potentially be too abusable.

Some combination of overshield, regenerating shielding, damage reduction, and radial crowd control would make it more fun to call down your archguns. You can make it like a beam of light that is said to be from the orbiter(even if it's in a tile mission, sure lol), or make the entrance of the weapon come in with a kind of explosion to facilitate the weight of some kind of crowd control. Heck any of these could maybe be a modular part of the archguns given an extra slot and could have their own associated downsides if a player didn't care to use the default state.

As it stands, the general use of the archgun isn't really fun, especially when you essentially stun yourself 4 seconds to call down a fairly underwhelming weapon. As it stands players have to work around the mechanic of its startup instead of feeling like they're using a power weapon.

The main priority should be to make the usage fun.

[birdobash]

If the dropping of the archgun created a CC knockdown affect around you it would help a lot

Just think about it, your orbiter just dropped a several ton heavy weapon that can only be held by the WARFRAME with the help of a gravimag, even though it's a Warframe which have been shown lorewise to be extremely strong, they still need help from the gravimag. So the archgun should technically have a shockwave or explosion when it lands in your hands since the gravimag is not activated until it's in your hands (otherwise the archgun wouldn't fall at 500 mph, it would float down)

[Peter]

On 2018-12-30 at 9:33 PM, Kenmei said:

Well, they are heavy for a reason.

If you die everytime you equip them, then don't try to use them while you're in los of a lot of enemies, or try to cc them before.

How about the same animation on heavy melees? they are heavy for a reason, right?