DE Rivens are bad business! (Gambling and Rng on Rng on Grind)

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Kuva is not sold as a resource on the market (boosters for resources are, but you have to play to still earn that) (if it was sold on the market for platinum and people could just buy it and keep rolling their rivens from the bought resource this would be a problem)

Rivens are not sold on the market (besides with p2p trade) (therefore we cant just keep buying and buying veiled rivens till we get the ones we want, the player has to do the work and find one either from a player or get lucky from the in game mechanics from getting a veiled one and completing the challenge and unlocking a riven (hopefully the one they want, usually not)

It would only be gambling/lootbox IF you choose to buy a veiled riven from another player and try to unlock the veiled riven on your own to get what you hope to get, rather than right out buying the exact one you want from a player. Just because the stats from rolling the riven are RNG, doesn't mean its gambling because you can't outright buy the resource to roll them other than a booster, which you still have to work towards getting the resource. I hope this makes sense.

It does stink that we don't have a lock stat feature, but atleast you can keep your best roll.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK

[Tamurlane_Aloia]

Well. I was invited to this thread after making a rambly, impulsive post about how I do not like rivens in the comments section of the aforementioned video. I severely regret coming into this childish cesspool of name calling, blatantly incorrect statements, and logical fallacies disguised as a "discussion" thread. Because now I have a headache and a mild desire to vent my frustration at myself for acquiring this headache into this thread. I shall do so in a constructive manner though with some all-powerful numbers. There are (probably)6 different types of rivens, each corresponding to one of the different existing weapon types in Warframe. There are roughly 350+ weapons in the game, don't quote me. To make things easier, let us assume that the chances for getting any riven type and any particular weapon are equal, and that when you unveil a riven, you have a 1/350 chance of getting a riven for the weapon you want. Now we have a riven for a weapon. The riven can have 2-3 positive stats with a chance at a negative stat as well that boosts the effects of the other 2-3. For further simplicity's sake, let us say there is a 1/4 chance that you will get the combination of stat slots that you want. From here we have the specific slot rolls that the player wants for that specific weapon riven. The wiki tells me there are 30 stats, 7 of which are melee dependent. I will be lazy and say we are rolling for a non-melee riven in this scenario, which means 23 stats. From here I will go into chance tiers for acquiring a certain outcome from the first time the stats appear from an "okay" riven roll, to a "good" one, to a great one, to a "perfect" one. The chances of you acquiring an okay roll, arbitrarily decided as a roll with one, specific good stat you want and no stats you consider a negative(be openminded here, I am not taking into account the additional RNG of the other stats you land not being ones you consider a negative since that is even more arbitrary than what we have gone through to get to this point), are 1/350 * 1/23. So generously speaking, an okay roll has a 1/8,050 chance of being the okay roll you want when you first unveil the riven. Every roll past that point, assuming you passed the 1/350 to get the weapon you wanted, is a 1/23 that you get the specific one good stat you wanted. From here we just scale up the RNG even more. A good roll with two stats and not accounting for negatives is a 1/185,150 witch each roll past that being a 1/529 that you get the two good stats you wanted, a great roll with 3 stats is 1/185,150 * 1/23 * 3/4 which is 3/17,033,800 with consequent rolls being 3/48,668 of getting the roll you want, and finally, the perfect roll comes out to 1/391,777,400 with following rolls having a 1/1,119,364 chance at being the particular roll you want. Now that I have finished with this pseudomathematical analysis of the RNG associated with the current riven system, I shall now pack up and leave the country because the angry forum Einstein's I just passed my headache on to have shown up outside my house with pitchforks for my crimes against math. Have fun spending the rest of your life and that of several of your alternative dimension's selves getting that "good" roll in this completely balanced, fair, non-exploitative, family-friendly system y'all have defended so valiantly.

[Doughalo2]

Warframe will simply die if the community defends rivens as hard as they currently. We need statlock to crash the riven market and bring it in line with everything else if not still slightly higher.

TIME IS MONEY So what if kuva is free? You know how much it takes to get even a decent riven, your time is pushing money towards DE and it is undeserved. Ask youself.

IS STAT ROLLING REALLY GOOD FUN CONTENT?
IS STAT ROLLING REALLY GOOD FUN CONTENT?

It is a distraction, and it exploits peoples time, kuva is not reasonable because of the amount you need for just one mod.

Is running 50 missions for 1 mod a good feature?

1st RNG finding the riven you want

2nd RNG rolling the riven

3rd the insane i mean INSANE kuva grind Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results.

[Voltage]

Why should we ruin the market? Why can't you just get more Platinum if you want to buy these rolls. If you really want something, there are avenues to reaching that goal. Also, Riven Mods won't kill the game.

Stat-locking is a mechanic that would make Riven Mods trivial as most people would have 90/90 Riven Mods with almost the same stats and then complain that there is nothing to do due to a cap. You can always improve your own Rivens (whether it be a new stat or a small boost in percentages).

Edited January 11, 2019 by Voltage

[Morthal]

Kuva is literally my end game content. I don't do much else in Warframe these days. I don't think it's worth the time without a booster+Smeeta and it would be neat if Kuva costs for rolling were just dropped to a fair amount...or how about just make some scaling rewards in Endless Kuva?

[Rakosta_Kai]

The rant today is brought to you by the letter K.

K is for Kuva

Edited January 11, 2019 by Padre_Akais

[Mr.SpookSpook]

You could just farm some plat in a lot less time and buy a riven you need. Instead of crying on the forum like this.
A moderator has rightly locked your previous, equally useless crythread. And you are immediately back with a new one, going on with the flaming. Maybe you are missing the cue: You need to stop.

I do agree that the amount of Kuva from missions should be at least doubled by default.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mr.SpookSpook

[(PSN)robotwars7]

27 minutes ago, Doughalo2 said:

Warframe will simply die if the community defends rivens as hard as they currently.

melodramatic much? the game's been around for years, Rivens are quite recent and not everybody really cares about them to the degree of spending ludicrous amounts of plat on them.

29 minutes ago, Doughalo2 said:

IS STAT ROLLING REALLY GOOD FUN CONTENT?

to some people, it actually might be. as others have said though, you aren't forced to farm Kuva. that's just what you do if you don't wnat to fork out plat for your ideal Riven on trading. you say time is money, well.. just think how much Kuva or Plat you could have made in the time you took to write this post.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

Rivens are completely optional, how are they “killing Warframe”? How does the Riven market (which is completely player-driven I might add) even relate to this? 

Let’s pretend even the cheapest Riven now sells for a minimum of 1000 plat and takes a week to cycle through a stat roll once you input Kuva. How does that affect a player’s ability to complete every single mission, alert, or quest currently available to play? 

It doesn’t in the slightest.

Sure there’s plenty of ways to improve the system. Sure farming Kuva is tedious and boring. Sure trade chat is filled with an endless stream of questionably-priced rivens. 

But will Rivens kill Warframe as they are currently? I don’t think so.

Feel free to change my mind though OP, I’d honestly love to hear how one optional feature will tank one of the best free-to-play games currently available.

[peterc3]

33 minutes ago, Doughalo2 said:

Warframe will simply die if the community defends rivens as hard as they currently.

33 minutes ago, Doughalo2 said:

We need statlock

Oh look. Warframe is dying, again, and OP has the solution to stop it. This time it's... Rivens. A mod which isn't considered really part of the game and can be safely ignored by most anyone playing the game.

Total indifference, in this case, is not defense. You are not forced at gunpoint to trade Plat for Rivens. Get off your high horse.

[Vox_Preliator]

That statement is only technically true in the sense that time is used in procuring both money and kuva.

Warframe Dying because of Rivens?  Not likely, thus far they've held to the claim that they would not be balancing around expecting the player to have a Riven.  Rivens have irrevocably damaged the game and its community, but they certainly haven't killed anything yet and they've shown little sign of getting worse as long as nothing incredibly dumb happens.  C'mon, you can't expect anyone to take this seriously, "THE GAME IS DYING" is stated in like every third thread, they could change Transmissions to use a font with Serifs and we'd see half a dozen threads saying that.

Leaving the other issues with this thread, Stat-locking is not a good idea without a significant overhaul to most other aspects of Rivens.

[NovusNova]

Thread has failed to remain constructive and respectful.

Locking.