Conclave

[VenomousValentine]

Just now, Cubewano said:

How do you know it would make it ultimately better as a whole? Or that it'd generate enough profit to justify not investing in other projects instead? DE has finite resources to work with each other, and they have to be selective about which projects they work on, and to a degree which ones they think will yield the most bang for their buck. DE invested in pvp at one time and it did not succeed to a degree they felt worth investing more in it, which is why we are where are with it. What makes you think pvp would have a different turn out this time around? Why is it worth allocating extra resources to that DE could otherwise place in more likely to succeed projects?

I know a ton of people who don't like this game just because it's a grind fest with no real goal. If there was PVP, players who don't like to grind could just mitigate that and have fun elsewhere. It would draw in a different crowd.

[Cubewano]

20 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

I know a ton of people who don't like this game just because it's a grind fest with no real goal. If there was PVP, players who don't like to grind could just mitigate that and have fun elsewhere. It would draw in a different crowd.

There is pvp however, and it isn't drawing in a large enough crowd, not at launch, and not now, it's crowd appeal and sustain is low, so why should they give it a second try when it failed the first so ever clearly? Is there anything more than blind faith to back up why DE should choose to invest more in this area of play than all the others? 

People comment because whether this suggestion goes through or not still affects them, since as noted in a separate conversation, DE has finite resources and can only do so many things at a time. Work allocated to pvp is work taken away from somewhere else in the game, so if a person doesn't prefer pvp play then naturally they aren't going to want it worked on since it can only really take away from things they potentially would enjoy. 

[Loxyen]

9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The biggest hurdle with PvP in Warframe is the lack of balance between frames, and weapons.

DE tried with restricting powers and mods, but THOSE are what Warframe is all about. Removing all the hard work people have done in the game when they go to PvP is what turns them off. They WANT to use their frame powers, and put in all those hard to grind mods.

As is, PvP just turns into a parkour sniper fest.

Open world might work, but then there's going to be a LOT of butt hurt people getting owned, that think they shouldn't and then starts the whine fest.

Summary: Warframe is just not built for PvP. Sorry

Hurr durr we had Conclave with fully accessible pve stuff for quite the long time. But the tendency showed that ppl were rather playing under honor rules to set fair conditions and minimize the ohk cluster#*!%. Later on DE reworked Conclave and balanced the frames to fit a solid ehp-mobility system and even reduced the speed as well as heightened the ttk.

You're right at the point that the abilities were not designed for pvp, however even those got rebalanced a couple time (some better than others tho). Imo the energy gain should get another look to make these precious abilities the special thing they are. Spamming them 24/7 is rather numbing their sparks, neither would it be a good choice for balance.

[JustAnotherNormalPerson]

50 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

If they just put 10% of their effort into conclave each update it would be great.

The problem with this community is that most of it is PvE due to waframes main focus on it and because many PvP players are turned off by conclaves under developed gameplay. Since the community as a whole tends toward PvE any amount of effort towards PvP is met with strong backlash bring up the notion that "since effort is going towards PvP, less effort is going to PvE." 
Its a never ending cycle of pain for people that want more and better warframe PvP. 

[DeMonkey]

45 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

-Snip-

I don't understand this thread, it's nothing more than a mini circlejerk (I wish there was politer way of saying it) of PvP players meta complaining, like hell are you going to get people on your side like that. 

This does nothing but create further animosity between the 2 communities.

If you have feedback, go to feedback. If you want to whinge and moan about how horrible people are for not liking what you like... well, I recommend Kleenex.

It's quite cute how many friends you appear to have brought with you to the thread.

[Kontrollo]

4 minutes ago, spyroxion said:

So it's onky conclaive that has "dedicated" servers but game it self is runing peer to peer, got it, thanks

To elaborate a bit:

Actually, the game itself is client-server(-server) based, where the server normally is another player (exception: hubs like relays). That's what people call "peer-to-peer"(-to-DE), but in technical terms the "peers" aren't really peers.

So those Conclave servers really are dedicated, it's a separate game running for itself, not an actual player in the game. But they're not hosted by DE. Of course you could still get host advantage if you run such a server, say, in your kitchen and play the game at the same time on your living room PC. It'll likely want to put you into the nearest instance, which is your dedicated machine.

[AbyssalWyrm]

14 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

There is pvp however, and it isn't drawing in a large enough crowd, not at launch, and not now, it's crowd appeal and sustain is low, so why should they give it a second try when it failed the first so ever clearly? Is there anything more than blind faith to back up why DE should choose to invest more in this area of play than all the others? 

One of the reasons why many pvp players get turned down by warframe is the need to go through a mindless pve grind in order to progress in pvp. I myself enjoy warframe a lot but can't manage to play it regularly simply because in order to get conclave improvements i have to first do stuff such as reaching a relay (which seems it can't be done without running pve missions), and that's before we start even thinking of stuff such as getting new weapons and characters to use against other players and the recipes and materials to craft them.

TLDR: The game's systems make up for a really amazing and unique pvp gameplay, but its pve aspect lacking any kind of challenge being a requirement to progress in pvp is probably the biggest turn down in warfarm.

Edited January 14, 2019 by AbyssalWyrm

[StonedAKhana]

34 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Biweekly Opticor Variant right when Baro arrives, so we can have some Conclave salt with his Primed Disappointment? 😄

HAHAhahah YES. THIS

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

I'm not going to flame this thread.  All I will say is that as long as it is kept in the Conclave and does not interfere with anything related to the core game (PvE), I really could give a fairy's flying fanny about PvP.

Edited January 14, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[StonedAKhana]

32 minutes ago, spyroxion said:

What do you mean dedicated servers? Where did you get this info from? As far as I can see its peer to peer (PC). And boi, peer to peer pvp is HORRIBLE!

there are dedicated servers man. Don't know what you mean. Even then, I sometimes play on 150-200 ping and its still completely playable due to how warframe works

[VenomousValentine]

13 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

There is pvp however, and it isn't drawing in a large enough crowd, not at launch, and not now, it's crowd appeal and sustain is low, so why should they give it a second try when it failed the first so ever clearly? Is there anything more than blind faith to back up why DE should choose to invest more in this area of play than all the others? 

Because whether this suggestion goes through or not still affects them, since as noted in a separate conversation, DE has finite resources and can only do so many things at a time. Work allocated to pvp is work taken away from somewhere else in the game, so if a person doesn't prefer pvp play then naturally they aren't going to want it worked on since it can only really take away from things they potentially would enjoy. 

It doesn't draw a crowd because it's unfinished. It's a shell of a gamemode. And even still the crowd who does play it is very dedicated.

There are tons of updates in this game I dont personally care about. That doesn't mean I would shoot down their ideas because it's not for me. 

Don't you think it's better for a game to be more well rounded? A little something for everyone?

 

9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I don't understand this thread, it's nothing more than a mini circlejerk (I wish there was politer way of saying it) of PvP players meta complaining, like hell are you going to get people on your side like that. 

This does nothing but create further animosity between the 2 communities.

If you have feedback, go to feedback. If you want to whinge and moan about how horrible people are for not liking what you like... well, I recommend Kleenex.

It's quite cute how many friends you appear to have brought with you to the thread.

Yes we're the circlejerkers. Not the people who instantly shut down ideas because they don't like it.

Look I'm not asking everyone to like conclave, obviously that would be stupid.

I'm asking for people to have an open mind and support more diversity in this game.

And I didn't bring friends, I linked this thread to boards and servers of people I barely know, who I know also play this game.

3 minutes ago, AbyssalWyrm said:

One of the reasons why many pvp players get turned down by warframe is the need to go through a mindless pve grind in order to progress in pvp. I myself enjoy warframe a lot but can't manage to play it regularly simply because in order to get conclave improvements i have to first do stuff such as reaching a relay (which seems it can't be done without running pve missions), and that's before we start even thinking of stuff such as getting new weapons and characters to use against other players and the recipes and materials to craft them.

Except an MR1 can jump into conclave and start beating ass. Plenty of conclave pros have smurfs just so they can grind out more pvp standing a day.

[StonedAKhana]

33 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The biggest hurdle with PvP in Warframe is the lack of balance between frames, and weapons.

DE tried with restricting powers and mods, but THOSE are what Warframe is all about. Removing all the hard work people have done in the game when they go to PvP is what turns them off. They WANT to use their frame powers, and put in all those hard to grind mods.

As is, PvP just turns into a parkour sniper fest.

Open world might work, but then there's going to be a LOT of butt hurt people getting owned, that think they shouldn't and then starts the whine fest.

Summary: Warframe is just not built for PvP. Sorry.

Wrong. In every situation, Aim is better than Parkour/ Movement, nd skill beats cheese every time. Make a new comment with better logic after you've actually learned what pvp is about. Thank you.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Rebolte

[VenomousValentine]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

I'm not going to flame this thread.  All I will say is that as long as it is kept in the Conclave and does not interfere with anything related to the core game (PvE), I really could give a fairy's flying fanny about PvP.

That's perfectly reasonably. I certainly don't want it mandatory, I just wish there were more incentive, and more content for it. Even if it were just enough that just enough people liked it that I could find a match whenever I wanted. But as it stands there are many many hours of the day that the gamemode is just dead.

[Loxyen]

11 minutes ago, -BG-Hema said:

The problem with this community is that most of it is PvE due to waframes main focus on it and because many PvP players are turned off by conclaves under developed gameplay. Since the community as a whole tends toward PvE any amount of effort towards PvP is met with strong backlash bring up the notion that "since effort is going towards PvP, less effort is going to PvE." 
Its a never ending cycle of pain for people that want more and better warframe PvP. 

Yea its just a sad display of that so called warm and welcoming community... (Its not like that the suposedly 1-2 pvp devs are barely working on pvp anymore to support pleasing that black hole the pve community is) Like put some solid effort in it and it runs itself. Thats how pvp works. There is barely development required afterwards unless they decide to rework stuff that'll affect the whole game. *shruggingintensifies*

[StonedAKhana]

33 minutes ago, spyroxion said:

Don't feel like doing conclaive. Then explain all the host migrations and laggy as hell missions when host has bad internet if you say that we have dedicated servers.

dude. Host migrations?? That only happens in PVE. Not PVP. Proof our gamemode is better xD.

[VenomousValentine]

1 minute ago, Loxyen said:

Yea its just a sad display of that so called warm and welcoming community... (Its not like that the suposedly 1-2 pvp devs are barely working on pvp anymore to support pleasing that black hole the pve community is) Like put some solid effort in it and it runs itself. Thats how pvp works. There is barely development required afterwards unless they decide to rework stuff that'll affect the whole game. *shruggingintensifies*

Exactly. It's an investment. Get the foundation done and you're pretty much set.

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

I'm asking for people to have an open mind and support more diversity in this game.

People are fine with diversity, so long as said diversity is of value.

People do not have faith in DE's ability to create PvP of value. I certainly don't, Warframe's core mechanics simply do not allow for good PvP. The absolute excess of items to balance, the ridiculous parkour, the huge learning curve.

And if you're just going to tell me I need to give it a try I suggest you look at my profile. I have given it a try.

7 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

And I didn't bring friends, I linked this thread to boards and servers of people I barely know, who I know also play this game.

You've literally just described the act of "bringing friends".

You went out of your way to contact people you knew would support you in order to back you up.

Like I said, it's cute. But it does create problems.

And yes, you are the circlejerkers. Look at yourselves, these points you're raising with each other are the exact same points you will have raised in your discord chats, except now you're doing it publicly... to what end?

Edited January 14, 2019 by DeMonkey

[MysticDragonMage]

in conclave:

- all warframes should have the same stats. let their abilities represent their roles.

- replace energy pick-ups which encourages hording and camping energy wells with a system that gives players energy passively or a CD system.

- instead of striving to implement literally all weapons into conclave, choose only a limited few and make some weapons special pick-ups.

- reduce the number of mod slots for all weapons and warframes.

- make it possible to interrupt mobility. headshot and/or melee attacks = no bullet-jumps and gliding for certain amount of time, for example.

these are a handful of the many things that needs to be done with conclave. way too much of the original game, which was balanced around PvE, is being implemented into PvP, making it extremely difficult and complicated for it to be remotely balance.

Edited January 14, 2019 by MysticDragonMage

[peterc3]

14 minutes ago, AbyssalWyrm said:

One of the reasons why many pvp players get turned down by warframe is the need to go through a mindless pve grind in order to progress in pvp. I myself enjoy warframe a lot but can't manage to play it regularly simply because in order to get conclave improvements i have to first do stuff such as reaching a relay (which seems it can't be done without running pve missions), and that's before we start even thinking of stuff such as getting new weapons and characters to use against other players and the recipes and materials to craft them.

TLDR: The game's systems make up for a really amazing and unique pvp gameplay, but its pve aspect lacking any kind of challenge being a requirement to progress in pvp is probably the biggest turn down in warfarm.

What would "better" PvP do about this? DE should make the game fully unlockable via PvP?

[AbyssalWyrm]

Just now, VenomousValentine said:

Except an MR1 can jump into conclave and start beating ass. Plenty of conclave pros have smurfs just so they can grind out more pvp standing a day.

I know, i've won quite a decent share of my games even with the recruit thing disabled, however i'm bound to use the same gear since for some reason i'm not getting credits from conclave anymore, so i can't buy weapons; and i actually fall asleep during pve missions so i can't get resources to create stuff on my own.

For someone who grew up playing Quake, Gunz, and Unreal and embraces competition anywhere, seeing conclave gameplay was amazing, an actual sight to behold.

[Loxyen]

9 minutes ago, Rebolte said:

Wrong. In every situation, Aim is better than Parkour/ Movement, nd skill beats cheese every time. Make a new comment with better logic after you've actually learned what pvp is about. Thank you.

Exactly. These mods were merely additions to create more diversity.

And sure movement can bring you into great positions, however DE nerfed mobility to a degree where I would agree to say that aim > movement. The non plus ultra would be being good on booth sides obviously. Anyway there were quite a bunch of ppl comming into Conclave with good aim and medicore or rather worse movement and stood their ground with great competing performance. 

[StonedAKhana]

24 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I don't understand this thread, it's nothing more than a mini circlejerk (I wish there was politer way of saying it) of PvP players meta complaining, like hell are you going to get people on your side like that. 

This does nothing but create further animosity between the 2 communities.

If you have feedback, go to feedback. If you want to whinge and moan about how horrible people are for not liking what you like... well, I recommend Kleenex.

It's quite cute how many friends you appear to have brought with you to the thread.

You do realize that you would be saying the same thing if your oh so precious pve was forgotten, only for pvp players to take over, and bash on you about how lame u are for playing such a dead gamemode that needs no skill. You wouldn't like pve being completely forgotten and neglected now would you?

[AbyssalWyrm]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

What would "better" PvP do about this? DE should make the game fully unlockable via PvP?

Having access to more gear, or even better, the ability to progress would be much appreaciated. I wouldn't mind being locked out of the stuff they sell for actual money (prime stuff?) because i wouldn't mind supporting a game i enjoy to get it. The issue is, warframe pve isn't enjoyable in any way, so being unable to progress despite how much i play doesn't give me any reason to support its devs either, and perhaps i'm not the only one in a similar situation.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I swear Conclave is so hypocritical and please read that has a heavy sigh and not shrill or hateful...Please make Conclave great has been a constant request for awhile now...But when someone says perhaps exploring some side by side PVP that is targeted to PVE Fence Sitters along side some experimental PVP that's not just KD and deathmatches....The answer from Conclave is NOPE...Then Conclave has the audacity to get all emotional when PVE goes NOOOO to your industry standard ...

This game has a massive PVE player base...There are PVP game modes out there in many games that PVE/PVP fence sitters would play that's not just shoot someone in the face like example the new Bungie horde mode with teams trying to clear the horde faster than the other...There's Indiana Jones death races...where some massive boulder chases the runners through an intricate course meant to eliminate them before reaching the end...

We could have a player controlled Juggernaut or Heavy Bursa and pull a Warframe's version of EVOLVE...

You could even have GTA's Jets vs. Motorcycles in POE only with K-drives and Darygns

You could take all the Ship assets and make a DREADNOUGHT knock off...when Rail Jack launches for the Ludoplex..

De should give the Dojo's new Obstacle Course Conclave's assets so Clans could experiment with player generated PVP creations...Halo's community came up with hundreds of variances using Forge World...and Warframe's community could as well...that would be your best bet on making Conclave great is demanding Lunaro and Conclave assets turned over to creative players..

Also speaking of Lunaro..It failed because the Warframe player base wanted Rocket League with warframes and instead it got a love letter to this obscure desk top top down sports game from the 90s that no one currently remembers..saddled with checks and lag...

DE needs to experiment with PVP that has interesting options baked into it for the massive PVE player base just as much as you want it to be interesting to deathmatch PVP players... 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[VenomousValentine]

9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

People are fine with diversity, so long as said diversity is of value.

People do not have faith in DE's ability to create PvP of value. I certainly don't, Warframe's core mechanics simply do not allow for good PvP. The absolute excess of items to balance, the ridiculous parkour, the huge learning curve.

And if you're just going to tell me I need to give it a try I suggest you look at my profile. I have given it a try.

You've literally just described the act of "bringing friends".

You went out of your way to contact people you knew would support you in order to back you up.

Like I said, it's cute. But it does create problems.

And yes, you are the circlejerkers. Look at yourselves, these points you're raising with each other are the exact same points you will have raised in your discord chats, except now you're doing it publicly... to what end?

People don't have faith because they barely tried and S#&$ out trite.

And it's clearly very easy to balance as the current shell of a gamemode is ALREADY balanced.

And so what if I bring support. They don't have to be native forumites to agree with me. These are people who play the game and want what I want. I speak on their behalf, so naturally I'd rally them.

5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

What would "better" PvP do about this? DE should make the game fully unlockable via PvP?

No, but a ranking system, seasonal rewards like mods and cosmetics, unlimited daily standing, more mods to use in conclave, the occasional new gamemode every year, etc.