Time-Gating Kill Warframe

[DigitalKarma]

For the love of the heavens, time-gating is killing this game for me. Nitian Extract is the most obvious time-gate and the most ridiculous. I wanted to buy Mesa Prime with plat and boom, Nitian extract. It'd be great if I could grind for this at a reasonable drop rate , or this could be implemented in Arbitrations as a reward after so many of essences are turned in. I get why we are having to wait for the foundry to build a warframe for 3 days. Its for monetization purposes. Its's too blatant. This is one reason I know turns people from the game. There should be more people playing this beautiful game. Lessen the Time-gate DE please. Be more frequent with tennogen release to compensate. Less time-gating would mean more content release which would in turn saturate the player base with more vets, and give AAA titles a run for their money. Go to the extreme DE. The name says it all. What I'm saying is, if I could accomplish my tasks much faster in key areas like building warframes, I would play warframe for much longer than I usually do. I'd have more to do. I'm forced to wait with the current status quo.

Edited January 23, 2019 by DigitalKarma

[(PSN)abbacephas]

2 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

I get why we are having to wait for the foundry to build a warframe for 3 days.

 

2 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

Its for monetization purposes.

 

3 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

I get why we are having to wait

Do you though?

[DigitalKarma]

I'm simply not trying to bash DE for these types of antics. I love the game. But 3 days is simply to blatant in my humble opinion. Is this wrong?

[Joltyboi]

3 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

I'm simply not trying to bash DE for these types of antics. I love the game. But 3 days is simply to blatant in my humble opinion. Is this wrong?

i have to agree that 3 days is just too much, i have no problem with things taking hours, half a day or a full 12 hours, but anything beyond that is a bit much

[AlphaPHENIX]

I honestly just want to shank all standing caps, the rest doesn't bother me that much.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

There's time-gating because there's only like 40 hours of actual gameplay in the game when not locked behind time and RNG. That's the only way DE can have enough time to create new content for this free game. 

Even with the time-gates and RNG most players still end up going to other games in between big updates because there isn't enough to consistently keep you busy forever. It's not a knock against DE, that's just the way it is. If you have to wait 3 days for a build, go farm for mods or prime parts you need or heaven forbid experience the real world and come back later.

[Sloan441]

38 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

Is this wrong?

What's wrong with it?

We've all done it for six years. Never has been any real problem. Occasionally a nuisance when you really wanted to play that new Warframe, but it came out of the foundry on Sunday afternoon. Ah, well, guess there's next weekend--and there's always a next weekend. 

Seriously not seeing a problem here. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

7 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Occasionally a nuisance when you really wanted to play that new Warframe

That also reminds me of another big reason. Impatient players will buy stuff with real money, which is how DE keeps going. 

Either you're patient and cheap, or impatient and a good patron of the company... 

[Leyers_of_facade]

To be honest, I think not having time gating will kill warframe even quicker.

Wanna check how many "content-drought" posts we have had before major updates?

I think most people here are aware of how warframe active player counts basically go in a cycle. Major update -> massive number of players coming back -> number of players slowly decrease -> "cOnTeNt DrOuGhT" causes many players to go inactive -> major update and so on

Imagine if people actually can farm everything within less than a week. The situation will be far worse.
Plus as people has mentioned, the time-gating makes it more likely for people to directly buy things from DE.

[Sloan441]

Just now, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

That also reminds me of another big reason. Impatient players will buy stuff with real money, which is how DE keeps going. 

It's an aspect of DE's implementation of F2P. However, we don't really know what their income stream looks like. 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

 a good patron of the company... 

There are a lot worse things to be. It does come down to "time is money" for the player, but said player really is in control of that. You pays your money and takes your choices. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

2 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

It's an aspect of DE's implementation of F2P. However, we don't really know what their income stream looks like. 

There are a lot worse things to be. It does come down to "time is money" for the player, but said player really is in control of that. You pays your money and takes your choices. 

Oh ya, I'm not complaining at all. A friend and I play this together and there's times where we buy plat even when we don't need it just to support the game and it's staff. They've earned whatever money I can afford to contribute.

Edit: I should've clarified that I was adding on to why I have no problem with the time-sink and RNG.

Edited January 23, 2019 by (PS4)Riko_113

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, DigitalKarma said:

. I get why we are having to wait for the foundry to build a warframe for 3 days. Its for monetization purposes. Its's too blatant.

Do you really though?

Because monetization is just one reason why frame parts take 12 hours to build, a frame 3 days, a forma 24 hours, and so on.
Another, arguably more important, reason is that it can actually increase player retention.  For example: Say you're building a new frame that just released, you know you have to sign in when its done building in the foundry, you know that its coming so you are excited and you check back in on the game in 3 days.  You're thinking about the game because you have a new shiny toy in the works.
The build times are calculated to keep people thinking about the game and coming back to it.  Eventually after long enough of building things, thinking about the game, and signing in to check your foundry it becomes just a thing you do.  You sign into the game and then go do other things.  Once its part of your daily routine then you're more likely to come back day after day even when there is nothing new in your foundry.
And you would be surprised at the number of people who sign in to check their foundry and then go "Well, I'm already here...better check on alerts/arbitrations/whatever..." and then play the game for a while.

Time gating in instances like this can actually help build player retention because it helps to build the game into an every day action and routine, and routines are hard for people to break.  Once a game becomes part of your routine then its hard to get you to stop.

Added onto all of that the time gating isn't all that bad all things considered.  Warframe does a really good job in that regard.

[Elementalos]

It feels like one of those predatory monetization schemes you see in those cheap cash grab mobile games, make the player wait and try to incentivize them into spending money to not wait. Combine with other sketchy monetization options like mod packs and credit packs that seem designed to prey on a new player's inexperience and it's really not a good look. 

It's strange because as a whole DE feels like such a good company and releases really solid content with a core business model that's pretty friendly to f2p users and yet alongside that we have stuff like this.

[Plushy]

2 minutes ago, Elementalos said:

It feels like one of those predatory monetization schemes you see in those cheap cash grab mobile games, make the player wait and try to incentivize them into spending money to not wait. Combine with other sketchy monetization options like mod packs and credit packs that seem designed to prey on a new player's inexperience and it's really not a good look. 

It's strange because as a whole DE feels like such a good company and releases really solid content with a core business model that's pretty friendly to f2p users and yet alongside that we have stuff like this.

Warframe isn't a cash grabby mobile game though. DE does get rid of things when they get too predatory.

[toxicitzi]

52 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Do you really though?

Because monetization is just one reason why frame parts take 12 hours to build, a frame 3 days, a forma 24 hours, and so on.
Another, arguably more important, reason is that it can actually increase player retention.  For example: Say you're building a new frame that just released, you know you have to sign in when its done building in the foundry, you know that its coming so you are excited and you check back in on the game in 3 days.  You're thinking about the game because you have a new shiny toy in the works.
The build times are calculated to keep people thinking about the game and coming back to it.  Eventually after long enough of building things, thinking about the game, and signing in to check your foundry it becomes just a thing you do.  You sign into the game and then go do other things.  Once its part of your daily routine then you're more likely to come back day after day even when there is nothing new in your foundry.
And you would be surprised at the number of people who sign in to check their foundry and then go "Well, I'm already here...better check on alerts/arbitrations/whatever..." and then play the game for a while.

Time gating in instances like this can actually help build player retention because it helps to build the game into an every day action and routine, and routines are hard for people to break.  Once a game becomes part of your routine then its hard to get you to stop.

Added onto all of that the time gating isn't all that bad all things considered.  Warframe does a really good job in that regard.

what I find interesting is that, in any other game such a game design philosophy would've been condemned, f2p or not.

[Tsukinoki]

1 minute ago, toxicitzi said:

what I find interesting is that, in any other game such a game design philosophy would've been condemned, f2p or not.

Whether its bad or not is subjective and I didn't want to get into that quagmire of whether warframe handles it well or not, just explaining why they do it.

There are tons of games that put in mechanics like this that are essentially time-gated to get you to come back day after day after day for the activities so it becomes part of your routine, both in F2P games and in paid games, and even in subscription games.

At its most basic level the crafting time-gates are really no different than daily activities that you can complete once a day and then have to sign in tomorrow to try again for the rewards you want.  Its really the same philosophy just applied a slightly different way and without the option to pay to do it again immediately (at least in WF, in other games you can buy more chances to do daily activities).
After all, what are daily activities but something to make you think "Yeah, tomorrow I'll try again for X reward..." to increase player retention by making them think about the game and making it part of their routine to check on the dailies every single day?

Some games do it well where there isn't much to complain about since there are still a ton of things you can do while your waiting, so while it slows you down it doesn't really limit you.
Some games do it poorly where if you don't pay to skip the wait then you really can't do anything and are stuck waiting with nothing else to do.

Whether Warframe does it well or does it poorly is largely up to the player asking the question.
And I think that whether something should be condemned depends on how its being implemented.

[toxicitzi]

@Tsukinoki the thing is, they could be better. If you look at it from the perspective you had when starting the game, I'm sure it was daunting, but that's not an illusion, you hurt for credits, resources, accessibility locked behind MR and you still were being kept under the same wait times as even the oldest players, that's a flat line that shouldn't exist, an MR 1-4 weapon, taking as long as any weapon from MR 14-18, or whichever weapon is at the end. That's just one example of bad player retention, older players have more stuff to fall on (for example, 20+ warframes and 40+ weapons), newer players, not so much.

 

And then we have stupid S#&$ like Nitain, which was made specifically to #*!% with older players. That is balancing a game around a small percentage of extremely dedicated and efficient people, no game that exists should ever do that, it'll inconvenience the best farmers for sure, slowing them down, somewhat, but it'll hurt the other less efficient and hyper focused players a hell of a lot more just by virtue of how much less hyper they are compared to the most dedicated players, not to mention it betrays any pretenses of casual playstyle in the game, if you're aggressively eyeing the Alerts.

for one, nitain shouldn't exist, plain and simple, no one wants it, it's bad for the game and this artificial lengthener I'd say only hurts Player retention, the moment people catch on to it and reflect on everything up to that point. Requiring Argon Crystals instead would've been more than enough for everyone involved.

Edited January 23, 2019 by toxicitzi

[_Vortus_]

If you are new, and if unwilling/unable to rush build, then this is when you should be collecting more resources, parts and BP's for other gear.   The time for earning plat for slots (if you don't buy).   Time for just playing the game.    New toys are great, but the game is way more than that. 

Eventually you hit a point where your reserves are enough to build whatever DE decides to put into the game.   Heh, for some even enough to support a clan when new clan tech is introduced.  Barring new resources, where you start the cycle again.   Playing the game to collect the resources.   Eventually you will hit that tipping point again.    Then the game introduces new stuff, the cycle begins anew.    However, one thing remains constant.   It is all about playing the game.  

@toxicitzi   Blaming DE because of being a casual player?    It is not their fault that you don't have time.  Nitain is not stopping you from playing the game.  That is your choice.    Why not just passively farm whats needed until you finally get enough of what you need.   If you don't get it, you don't get it.   Plenty of other stuff use besides the few that need Nitain or any other particular resource.   Worrying about what you can't get seems to be distracting you from all of the stuff you can.

 

[toxicitzi]

25 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

@toxicitzi   Blaming DE because of being a casual player?    It is not their fault that you don't have time.  Nitain is not stopping you from playing the game.  That is your choice.    Why not just passively farm whats needed until you finally get enough of what you need.   If you don't get it, you don't get it.   Plenty of other stuff use besides the few that need Nitain or any other particular resource.   Worrying about what you can't get seems to be distracting you from all of the stuff you can.

Nah fam. I'm gonna be fine, thanks for the concern.

The new players will have to struggle in this S#&$ heap though, so it's them who will silently farm everything.

[DigitalKarma]

5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Do you really though?

Because monetization is just one reason why frame parts take 12 hours to build, a frame 3 days, a forma 24 hours, and so on.
Another, arguably more important, reason is that it can actually increase player retention.  For example: Say you're building a new frame that just released, you know you have to sign in when its done building in the foundry, you know that its coming so you are excited and you check back in on the game in 3 days.  You're thinking about the game because you have a new shiny toy in the works.
The build times are calculated to keep people thinking about the game and coming back to it.  Eventually after long enough of building things, thinking about the game, and signing in to check your foundry it becomes just a thing you do.  You sign into the game and then go do other things.  Once its part of your daily routine then you're more likely to come back day after day even when there is nothing new in your foundry.
And you would be surprised at the number of people who sign in to check their foundry and then go "Well, I'm already here...better check on alerts/arbitrations/whatever..." and then play the game for a while.

Time gating in instances like this can actually help build player retention because it helps to build the game into an every day action and routine, and routines are hard for people to break.  Once a game becomes part of your routine then its hard to get you to stop.

Added onto all of that the time gating isn't all that bad all things considered.  Warframe does a really good job in that regard.

In this instance, Time-Gating does not work. For reasons I just specified. I'm no casual at all as my wife stays pissed at me. No wonder  Lifeof Rio says this place is kinda slow. How is lessining the time for this game in anyway bad? player retention is NOT good at all right now for warframe. There should be no reason why a game out for 5 years now has a daily player base that doesn't even hit 100k. Too many people logout to play other games that have more compelling rewards. There should be better rewards to circumnavigate the time-gate. Crappy reward system and time-gate are warframes weaknesses. Anthem is going to hurt Warframe so badly when it comes out dude. Watch and see. Things will never be the same. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

16 minutes ago, DigitalKarma said:

 Anthem is going to hurt Warframe so badly when it comes out dude. Watch and see. Things will never be the same. 

There it is.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, DigitalKarma said:

In this instance, Time-Gating does not work. For reasons I just specified. I'm no casual at all as my wife stays pissed at me. No wonder  Lifeof Rio says this place is kinda slow. How is lessining the time for this game in anyway bad? player retention is NOT good at all right now for warframe. There should be no reason why a game out for 5 years now has a daily player base that doesn't even hit 100k. Too many people logout to play other games that have more compelling rewards. There should be better rewards to circumnavigate the time-gate. Crappy reward system and time-gate are warframes weaknesses. Anthem is going to hurt Warframe so badly when it comes out dude. Watch and see. Things will never be the same. 

You obviously misunderstood what Rio meant.  I know this because I actually have conversations with him.  

As for Anthem hurting Warframe, I kinda doubt that for multiple reasons.  Prime reason being that its being released by EA.  Other reason is that there is nothing wrong with playing another game and coming back to Warframe.  Heck, I play other games without even needing to take a break from Warframe.  

Also layer retention isn't no where near as bad as you seem to be thinking it is.  As someone said earlier, the game goes in cycles.  If you have been here long enough, you would have seen this time and time again.  

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

When I first started playing this game a year ago, my first month was horrid. Worse was my first week of playing warframe. I was only playing one hour per day of warframe because of time gates. Weapons were locked behind mastery, mastery test locked behind 24 hours time limit. Crafting resources locked behind planets. Planets locked behind objectives.

[DigitalKarma]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

You obviously misunderstood what Rio meant.  I know this because I actually have conversations with him.  

As for Anthem hurting Warframe, I kinda doubt that for multiple reasons.  Prime reason being that its being released by EA.  Other reason is that there is nothing wrong with playing another game and coming back to Warframe.  Heck, I play other games without even needing to take a break from Warframe.  

Also layer retention isn't no where near as bad as you seem to be thinking it is.  As someone said earlier, the game goes in cycles.  If you have been here long enough, you would have seen this time and time again.  

Everything you said and I have said is subjective. I didn't misunderstand Rio at all my friend, maybe we just have different takes on his view of the games current state. I can sit here and tell you you're wrong by thinking this systems player retention is great when it has a very lack luster player retention model. I do not value that type of ideology of this particular game going in "cycles" whatever that means. Just straight through no stops. There is far too much meta going on. Not in just Warframe but in many in the genre. Why cant we take Vauban out to kill the Profit-Taker? And he actually help.

Edited January 24, 2019 by DigitalKarma

[Genesix6]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

There's time-gating because there's only like 40 hours of actual gameplay in the game when not locked behind time and RNG. That's the only way DE can have enough time to create new content for this free game. 

Even with the time-gates and RNG most players still end up going to other games in between big updates because there isn't enough to consistently keep you busy forever. It's not a knock against DE, that's just the way it is. If you have to wait 3 days for a build, go farm for mods or prime parts you need or heaven forbid experience the real world and come back later.

To be honest I would rather have RNG rather than time gating

Edited January 24, 2019 by Genesix6