Ignis, Amprex and all the rest...

[TurningDrop]

If you want things to stop dying to aoe stuff then look at frames not weapons. Frames like Saryn are leagues more powerful than any weapon even with rivens I would say.

 

If you want to not be forced to AFK when dps frames are in the lobby then they would have to either redesign most of the game or suck it up. I don't like it either but DE doesn't seem to care that a multiplayer game can be carried by one person not doing that much.

[Seele]

I've said something along these same lines countless times before. The best things in Warframe are not the things that do the most damage, but the things that do their damage most easily. Saryn is easy. Ignis and Amprex are easy. Holding a spin attack macro with Atterax is easy. They require very little if any thought, skill, or input from the player.

Players will gravitate to whatever is easiest because Warframe is a very grindy game. They don't want to deal with getting their (insert mastery fodder weapon here) to rank 30, so they just holster it, go to Hydron, and press 4 for 10 or 15 waves. Fairly understandable. I would be lying if I said I hadn't done the same thing myself.

The issue is that I very regularly see players wield several braindead items all at once for all manner of content in the game. When you trivialize every part of the game that's a pain in the ass, well... you trivialize all of it. There is no secret garden of engaging content they're grinding towards.

It's frustrating and saddening, but ultimately this game is little more than a cute power-fantasy time waster. Something will always be the braindead strategy, and the devs don't seem interested in incentivizing what passes for skill-based gameplay.

[LightZodiac]

The frustration is understandable.

The weapons are kinda balanced at higher levels but most of the game content is happening at levels 1-45. Since enemies at such levels are absolute paper against fully modded AoE weapons they reign supreme. Rubico can one shot a lvl45 Bombard, Amprex can fry entire room full of lvl45 Bombards before player with Rubico even aims at another Bombard.

As a result in most of the game content there is simply not enough enemies for all players to shoot at. There is usually one player which nukes everything with spin2win whip or some AoE weapon and rest of the players play the walk from the start (to objective) to extraction and search for enemies that nuker eventually missed. And even if the number of enemies was increased tenfold with one nuker frame the result is the same.

And this is not the case of "you should just play... this multiplayer game solo" this is a case of really bad game design which should be addressed. All 4 players should have things to shoot at otherwise this is a really crappy experience for 3/4 players.

[LightZodiac]

3 hours ago, Seele said:

Players will gravitate to whatever is easiest because Warframe is a very grindy game. They don't want to deal with getting their (insert mastery fodder weapon here) to rank 30, so they just holster it, go to Hydron, and press 4 for 10 or 15 waves. Fairly understandable. I would be lying if I said I hadn't done the same thing myself.

Actually this is a very inefficient way of leveling a weapon. Killing enemies with abilities gives 100% of the affinity to the frame, and if you kill 90% of the enemies using nuke abilities...

When leveling a weapon equip just that one weapon, mod it the best you can, pick a relevant frame (I usually use buff Rhino) go to Hydron and shoot stuff. Your gun gets 50% affinity for everything you kill with your gun and 75% affinity from stuff other people kill.

Don't even use the mindset of "I need to level this weapon to 30" use mindset "I'm going to pew-pew some baddies and I'm gana have some fun".

[2wentyThre3]

Le 02/03/2019 à 20:09, Seele a dit :

I've said something along these same lines countless times before. The best things in Warframe are not the things that do the most damage, but the things that do their damage most easily. Saryn is easy. Ignis and Amprex are easy. Holding a spin attack macro with Atterax is easy. They require very little if any thought, skill, or input from the player.

Players will gravitate to whatever is easiest because Warframe is a very grindy game. They don't want to deal with getting their (insert mastery fodder weapon here) to rank 30, so they just holster it, go to Hydron, and press 4 for 10 or 15 waves. Fairly understandable. I would be lying if I said I hadn't done the same thing myself.

The issue is that I very regularly see players wield several braindead items all at once for all manner of content in the game. When you trivialize every part of the game that's a pain in the ass, well... you trivialize all of it. There is no secret garden of engaging content they're grinding towards.

It's frustrating and saddening, but ultimately this game is little more than a cute power-fantasy time waster. Something will always be the braindead strategy, and the devs don't seem interested in incentivizing what passes for skill-based gameplay.

Thank you. It seems you get what I'm feeling.

[2wentyThre3]

Le 28/02/2019 à 19:29, TurningDrop a dit :

If you want things to stop dying to aoe stuff then look at frames not weapons. Frames like Saryn are leagues more powerful than any weapon even with rivens I would say.

 

If you want to not be forced to AFK when dps frames are in the lobby then they would have to either redesign most of the game or suck it up. I don't like it either but DE doesn't seem to care that a multiplayer game can be carried by one person not doing that much.

But can we be real on this for a second mate. DE do care. They have consistently listened to their playerbase. Please don't tar them with a similar brush to someone like EA. They really aren't that kind of company. Moreso if we all voice similar opinions over a period of time it will be something they will listen to. Just giving up is really the thing that changes nothing.

[2wentyThre3]

Le 27/02/2019 à 12:08, Shikkoku a dit :

I guess the price of a riven like that is around 2k platinum... so okay you are right, this weapon with this mod is OP as hell... and they paid for it a nice sum. So nerf it, then his money goes in the waste, and i guess it's not just one men... 

Well i guess DE should ban trading rolled rivens at least... but they are too greedy, and i somewhat understand that. 

The build is open, if your problem is that they are more efficient than you, just get that weapon and build. If your problem is that you think it's too OP, then go with a weaker one. 

So yeah maybe weapons like this is an issue, but really it is? I mean, it's a co-op game, you don't lose anything by others do the killing... you still got the mission rewards, you still get the drop. Play solo if you don't like how others play. Or get a clan and play with clanmates/friends. 

Warframe become a game nearly impossible to balance, but because it isn't a PvP it isn't that big issue. I don't really see your problem in a practical point of view:

 You go to a public mission. Someone with an Ignis Wraith does 90% dmg/kills. 

Why you go to public?
1.1 The mission is too hard for you, need the help of others. Don't see the problem. 
1.2 You just want to do a mission faster: Well i guess it would make most of the missions faster. 
1.3 You're farming XP, Well Your weapons got 25% xp from others kills (if you only have one weapon it gets 75%) and your warframe gets 25% too. From your own kills if it's with warframe ability WF get 100%, if with weapon, 50/50 between weapon and warframe. It's only an issue if you want to level your warframe. But if he with his super weapon does it faster enough than you would do without it, it can compensate or overcompensate. 
1.4 You go there to compare your abilities and gear with others. Well, in this case, they are just having better gear. You can get it too, you can get the same weapon or wait until DE releases a better weapon. (If everyone would go with it DE would nerf it anyway.) 
1.5 ??? Don't know why other reason someone goes to public? 

If you just want to enjoy the game, play with friends, clan mates, it's more fun that way anyway or go solo. 

And another issue is that, we don't really need strategic gameplay, as the content isn't hard enough... and where a strategy is needed it becomes the meta, just like for Eidolons. If a highly efficient strategy is invented, and you try to play it another way, mostly you would decrease the efficiency for others if not, and instead your new way increases it, it can become a new meta. 

In this game, you have to beat the grind-wall for everything. So people forced to go with the most efficient ways as possible. If they nerf Ingins the people would find another way to get tons of dmg and steal your kills. 
 

Another person who needs to contextually balance his butthurt at my opinion and their attention span while reading the OP.

A 2k Riven... 2k is nothing. Especially when once you've earned that 2k for the initial purchase it goes on to trivialize all the content needed to refarm that 2 in less than a week - Hell a few day's if you hit lucky on a sortie drop. Do you know what entitlement is? Because the entire argument basis of how much you pay for a Riven and how much said expensive Riven turns you into a god and look at me and my Riven comes from a place of entitlement. Yes I know what a Riven is. Yes I own some. No I do not think they should allow the trivialisation of content, on any weapon.

"Why you go to public" - Gonna assume this was you telling me why I go to public as there was no context of you as a group or finger pointing at the community at large.

1.1: Nope. Why have an internet connection to play online multiplayer games and not use it? I play games to, and prepare for this shock factor, play games! And bigger shock still, play games with people!!! Not to sit and watch other people nuke stages and essentially play the game for me. Next...
1.2: Nope. See above.
1.3: Omg mate... You guessed it - See 1.1 and 1.2, the games supposed to be a grind IDC how long it takes to do stuff. 
1.4: Wow, this is the easiest to answer bullet point session ever! See above.
1.5: This one was the best because not only was it the answer to all of your bullet points before now, even with ambiguity, it still ends up in the same answer. SEE ABOVE.

Also what kind of egotistical, "I'm the smartest guy I know" lists things in this one point "oh" manner without having a "2.0" to launch into after... I mean, I did it back to parody this terrible post you saw fit to dump in my notifications but damn mate... Get a grip, yeah? a simple dash or normal numbering method is fine, why was that necessary?

Your efficiency argument is null and void if it takes enjoyment out of the game for others. Surely the true test of efficiency exists in solo play as at that point you would be self reliant and truly self sufficient. But wait, that touches on my OP again doesn't it. It's not about efficiency, it's about using players " 2, 3 and 4 " to increase spawn rates for "Player 1's" selfish needs.

"We don't need strategic gameplay"... Really? I mean DE haven't really turned this into the enigma code of 3rd person action shooters, but come on now, you prefer games to give you no challenge at all? That's not really a game then is it? It's watching TV.


"In this game, you have to beat the grind-wall for everything. So people forced to go with the most efficient ways as possible. If they nerf Ingins the people would find another way to get tons of dmg and steal your kills. " - Herrr derrr something, something, kill steal...

"If you just want to enjoy the game, play with friends, clan mates, it's more fun that way anyway or go solo. " - Something, something, go play solo...

(   -_- ')

Please read OP before replying to me again, IF you see fit.
Where do these guys come from... Are they mass produced?...

[2wentyThre3]

Le 25/02/2019 à 15:57, aplethoraof a dit :

This is a hoard shooter. The most engaging part of this game and the most efficient methods are one and the same. Wiping out billions of enemies all rushing to their death while avoiding any hit because it could mean your death as well is pretty engaging. At high levels, Warframe plays pretty close to a mix of ARPG, Hoard shooter, and Buller hell.

It -can- be a slow-paced methodical game if that tickles your fancy. But like many MMOs, while it can do multiple things it doesn't do them particularly well. You CAN turn warframe into a kill-everything-in-your-path-QUIETLY stealth game, you can turn it into a slow-based cover shooter.

But anything other than the developer's vision for it (a high octane shooter) is going to be flawed. And it likely won't be what the majority of people are into for PUGs, since it isn't what Warframe does well.

It is a case of personal expectations not meeting reality here, imo. Hence my condescending post (but maybe somewhat helpful in the solution department?) above. OP looked at what you could do in warframe if you gave it a good shot (slower-paced gameplay) and assumed that everyone should be playing that way.

No, I just remember a time where I could play the game in a group instead of being subjected to watching one person playing it for the group.

[Metalharpey]

I don't understand why you're so against aoe weapons... There's also aoe warframes...
At some missions I don't even need a weapon at all because of a Saryn for example or Equinox or Volt just bursting the crap out of everything wave after wave.
So, are you against aoe warframes as well?

Sure, if you're unlocking stuff or trying to follow the lore then it can be annoying if someone rushes... But that is why it also has a solo, friends only, and invite only options...
If I don't want to be rushed, want to take my time (like finding Kuria for example) then I put it on friends only and ask my friends to come if they like. They don't rush me (they wouldn't dare then I won't carry them anymore lmfao), nor do my clannies.

There's plenty of ways to get around it...

[Engilore]

i feel the same but removing then will be a mistake so i came with quick solution, what about overheat mechanic like if you continue using this flamethrower the weapons lose his range to the point its stops firing until you reload, or even more punishment you can still fire the weapons but if the overheat reach the maximum level the weapon magazine explodes and you lose the anmo you are using or maybe a soft nerf: make those weapon like the flux rifle you have unlimited ammo but at some point you need to stop firing i don't know that are some ideas 

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 7 minutes, Engilore a dit :

i feel the same but removing then will be a mistake so i came with quick solution, what about overheat mechanic like if you continue using this flamethrower the weapons lose his range to the point its stops firing until you reload, or even more punishment you can still fire the weapons but if the overheat reach the maximum level the weapon magazine explodes and you lose the anmo you are using or maybe a soft nerf: make those weapon like the flux rifle you have unlimited ammo but at some point you need to stop firing i don't know that are some ideas 

I agree removal is like a last ditch - in a few years if no tweaking ever fixes them suggestion. But you know what? I really like the idea of your first suggestion. An Overheat mechanic would require management and therefore upping the skill needed to use this sort of weapon. Brilliant idea mate.

[Guest]

Reading the whole thing, all I can conclude about OP is the same tired argument that nerf warriors have been using all along.

1st step - "I want to play the game my way!" - fine, not invalid, everyone wants to play the game their way.

2nd step - "The game should be changed to suit my way! Nerf X because I don't like X and it is not under my way!" - seriously?

3rd step - "Other people's opinions don't matter, only mine! Therefore X must be nerfed even when those people like it!" - ok...

4th step - "Therefore, nerf X" - I mean, the conclusion is not fallacious, just the premises.

Of course, OP, I applaud you for your rather more sophisticated English than most of the nerf crowd, but hiding the same argument behind a wall of emotive appeals and better writing doesn't change the core content.

[TurningDrop]

2 hours ago, Astronomicon. said:

But can we be real on this for a second mate. DE do care. They have consistently listened to their playerbase. Please don't tar them with a similar brush to someone like EA. They really aren't that kind of company. Moreso if we all voice similar opinions over a period of time it will be something they will listen to. Just giving up is really the thing that changes nothing.

Saying they don't care is poor wording on my part. I would say it's more they won't fix a problem they don't think the game has. Majority seems very in favor of no changes. People in all games think nerfs are all bad and anything that gets nerfed is dead. Even when good nerfs fix legitimate problems with the game. Which to me is really where the game is. The unmatched and suffocating power of DPS frames is bad for the game in my opinion. Ideally they would make the game the same level of challenge, while making the game require teamplay and synergy between frames.

[Dreammag911]

The problem isnt in the weapons. They, weapons, work as intended - to kill big gangs of mobs fast.

Its the people who use them. If they bring amprex\ignis in sortie to try to kill lvl 100 boss - they:

a) have a good riven what empower their weapon to deal massive damage;

b) folks with no good weapon to kill boss with 2-3 aimed shots;

c) is a lazy person who cant swap loadout after usual "farming %planet_name_placeholder% exterminate".

The only good thing is what they usually get smarter as they progress to really good equipment and higher MR.

And if you absolutly dont want to play with people like that - then you will be dissapointed, because, you know - public is public.

[Buttaface]

Many frame powers need nerfing and have for a long time. No ranged weapons currently ingame need nerfing in comparison. Ranged balance is quite good atm compared to the past.

Some of the frames that rely on building power via kills need more buffing so that they are more PUG friendly and less kill dependent. Prior to that taking place, OP if you take those -few-frames into a PUG and expect people to accommodate you instead of killing the hordes as fast as possible, then that's on you.

WF is an easy mass slay power fantasy for casual players. I gave up on it ever turning into a balanced, skill-based team tactical shooter some time ago and OP should as well.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Buttaface

[2wentyThre3]

Il y a 14 heures, Datam4ss a dit :

Reading the whole thing, all I can conclude about OP is the same tired argument that nerf warriors have been using all along.

1st step - "I want to play the game my way!" - fine, not invalid, everyone wants to play the game their way.

2nd step - "The game should be changed to suit my way! Nerf X because I don't like X and it is not under my way!" - seriously?

3rd step - "Other people's opinions don't matter, only mine! Therefore X must be nerfed even when those people like it!" - ok...

4th step - "Therefore, nerf X" - I mean, the conclusion is not fallacious, just the premises.

Of course, OP, I applaud you for your rather more sophisticated English than most of the nerf crowd, but hiding the same argument behind a wall of emotive appeals and better writing doesn't change the core content.

Another person entirely missing the point:

It isn't that I want to play the game my way. Or your way or, anybody else's way. Just having the option to play at all would be nice in some of the groups I join. Groups where people hit one button and merc everything in and outside of sight. If I wanted to watch flashing images with no interaction at all, I'd watch TV.
Weapons like this are a part of a larger problem where AoE rules over everything up to a point - but that point is something of a nothingness when it takes upwards of an hour and a half to reach that point and only in certain mission types. For those circumstances - long Kuva runs, Survivals, Endless Defense etc, more often than not, I would LF a group capable of doing those things consistently. But joining anything else, it turns into an absolute snooze fest. I log in to play, not to watch other people play. That clear enough?

As for my use of more sophisticated English... I didn't hide anything, I'm not sure how you came to see the post in any kind of deceptive manner. I do want these weapons altered and did not side step the idea of a nerf, I made that very clear and for sound and solid reasoning. Reasoning that others that were able to understand what was being put across as they didn't approach the post from a position of smugness or rolling their eyes. If you think it is okay to play Warframe using the same weapon from low MR all the way to endgame then I understand, DE themselves have stated it's something they want to be able to happen, but, all other weapon groups serve roles and have major weakness' - weaknesses that can be identified even in low level gameplay. There is no punishment or niche use for weapons like these, they can be used under all but one circumstance, a circumstance that takes forever and a day to even give these weapons a downside. Sniper Rifles hit REALLY hard but take time to aim, are bad in close quarters and have terrible ammo efficiency. Shotguns also hit really hard, in a wide spread best used at close range but have really bad fall off damage, are highly inaccurate and take really long times to reload. Rifles hit multiple times in a short time, have decent ammo efficiency but are typically not very powerful or have low crit and status rates. Beam weapons as a standard, hit in a linear fashion, hold continuous damage on a target until needing to reload or the beam is stopped, they are weakest per tick of all weapons and have limited range.

That beam weapon description is not true of AoE monsters like Amprex, and Ignis. to the lesser part the Phantasma. Their range is larger than it should be, larger still after modding. Their ammo efficiency is amongst the best in the game- granted this is the Phantasma's downfall. Their ticks are huge and apply debilitating status as they are pure status weapons - No IPS. And once you have the necessary MR you can obliterate every tileset in existence by holding a trigger and waving your mouse around until endgame. It's not balanced, they need balancing. If that comes in the form of a Nerf then so be it.

Emotive or being completely devoid of feeling at all, the above description of these weapons should not be a thing. And if they are to be some sort of hybrid weapon or have a niche mechanic, then that should lend itself to becoming weaker under certain circumstance like every other weapon in the game.
Engilore suggested an amazing mechanic to balance these weapons, I suggest you give his short but sweet post a quick read.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

2 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Many frame powers need nerfing and have for a long time. No ranged weapons currently ingame need nerfing in comparison. Ranged balance is quite good atm compared to the past.

 Some of the frames that rely on building power via kills need more buffing so that they are more PUG friendly and less kill dependent. Prior to that taking place, OP if you take those -few-frames into a PUG and expect people to accommodate you instead of killing the hordes as fast as possible, then that's on you.

WF is an easy mass slay power fantasy for casual players. I gave up on it ever turning into a balanced, skill-based team tactical shooter some time ago and OP should as well.

All of this! I learned a long time ago that if everything is broken nothing is overpowered from playing older call of duty games and I think the same should apply to Warframe. Allow veterans to be as powerful as they want and maybe start to struggle when enemies get around level 100 and even make it the standard level of some activities for good measure even. Warframe is about mass horde killing and getting bigger numbers and the fact people want it to be anything other then that is honestly kinda weird to me and many other players I know. All powerful builds are worked for and earned in some degree after all so let them stay that way, because eventually the newbies complaining will be in the same situation and feel just as annoyed as the current veterans do...

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 1 minute, (XB1)Zweimander a dit :

All of this! I learned a long time ago that if everything is broken nothing is overpowered from playing older call of duty games and I think the same should apply to Warframe. Allow veterans to be as powerful as they want and maybe start to struggle when enemies get around level 100 and even make it the standard level of some activities for good measure even. Warframe is about mass horde killing and getting bigger numbers and the fact people want it to be anything other then that is honestly kinda weird to me and many other players I know. All powerful builds are worked for and earned in some degree after all so let them stay that way, because eventually the newbies complaining will be in the same situation and feel just as annoyed as the current veterans do...

Level 100 is far from a struggle, but given it takes anything up to 40minutes for them to appear in some missions, they should be more than a struggle. Veterans - of which I am one of - should not be allowed to be as powerful as they want. In any game, ever. And if you only ever consider that a game is what it is and should stay that way - we would have never got The Plains of Eidolon, The Orb Vallis and we would NEVER get Railjack. The game is progressing, it is progressive and as such needs balance. Without balance it has no structure, enemies may as well start and remain at level 5.

You give all this Newbie VS Veteran talk and I've been around two years longer than you have... Please don't act like you're entitled to anything. It's sad and undermines any actual argument you may have.

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 12 minutes, (XB1)Zweimander a dit :

I learned a long time ago that if everything is broken nothing is overpowered from playing older call of duty games and I think the same should apply to Warframe.

Wrong genre, wrong context and REALLY? in regards to what you are actually saying... If something is a broken mess it stops it from being accessible to those Casuals you were so quick to agree with Buttaface about. Is Smash Bros. Melee instantly accessible at high levels of play? No. Is that game a broken mess? Yes.

Games that are broken fail. Again, look at EA. Anthem is so good right? *Obvious sarcastic remark is sarcasm*

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Another person entirely missing the point:

It isn't that I want to play the game my way. Or your way or, anybody else's way. Just having the option to play at all would be nice in some of the groups I join. Groups where people hit one button and merc everything in and outside of sight. If I wanted to watch flashing images with no interaction at all, I'd watch TV.
Weapons like this are a part of a larger problem where AoE rules over everything up to a point - but that point is something of a nothingness when it takes upwards of an hour and a half to reach that point and only in certain mission types. For those circumstances - long Kuva runs, Survivals, Endless Defense etc, more often than not, I would LF a group capable of doing those things consistently. But joining anything else, it turns into an absolute snooze fest. I log in to play, not to watch other people play. That clear enough?

Easy for you to say, actually, but the fact is that you yourself have the option to access the exact same weapons and frames. I can in fact completely pick apart your so called "weapon niches".

2 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Sniper Rifles hit REALLY hard but take time to aim, are bad in close quarters and have terrible ammo efficiency.

Actually, you can fire them perfectly accurately from the hip. The only Sniper that really suffers from what you are saying is the Lanka. They neither take time to aim or are terrible in close quarters, because they can kill a whole line of enemies with one trigger pull when fired from the hip. The ammo efficiency is also not terrible unless you play really low levels when even a Soma P can one hit. The number of "kills per ammo spent" isn't bad by any means.

4 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Shotguns also hit really hard, in a wide spread best used at close range but have really bad fall off damage, are highly inaccurate and take really long times to reload. 

Tigris Prime is really excellent over long range and is extremely accurate. Astilla has a quick reload and a tight spread. Corinth has a very tight spread and doesn't have much falloff. I can only understand this if you only played with only a Strun or used Vicious Spread on everything.

6 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Rifles hit multiple times in a short time, have decent ammo efficiency but are typically not very powerful or have low crit and status rates.

Opticor is also a rifle. Ogris is also a rifle. Grinlok is also a rifle. Soma is also a rifle. Your point being?

Also, typically not very powerful? Have you tried a Crit Riven on a Buzlok? Low Crit and Status rates? I mean, I think Tenora, Soma, Boltor (prime and telos), Prisma Gorgon etc didn't just mysteriously vanish did they?

1 minute ago, Astronomicon. said:

Beam weapons as a standard, hit in a linear fashion, hold continuous damage on a target until needing to reload or the beam is stopped, they are weakest per tick of all weapons and have limited range.

You know, even the Convextrix, Atomos, Ocucor and Phage disagree with you, not just the Ignis and the Amprex. You also seem to conveniently ignore the existence of the Embolist. Linear is probably the rarity, not the defining factor.

You can even go on about bows being "high skill must lead target" and then you realize Lenz is a thing.

Each individual gun in Warframe has some use in some area, sure, but there will always be that one gun which outshines a lot of others.

22 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

That beam weapon description is not true of AoE monsters like Amprex, and Ignis. to the lesser part the Phantasma. Their range is larger than it should be, larger still after modding. Their ammo efficiency is amongst the best in the game- granted this is the Phantasma's downfall. Their ticks are huge and apply debilitating status as they are pure status weapons - No IPS. And once you have the necessary MR you can obliterate every tileset in existence by holding a trigger and waving your mouse around until endgame. It's not balanced, they need balancing. If that comes in the form of a Nerf then so be it.

I already addressed that "beam weapon description" you have in your head is a misconception on your part. Their range is not larger than it should be because DE decides what it should be. Their ticks are also not as exaggeratedly massive as you imagine. Ignis Wraith in fact requires faction specific modding to even be useful past level 60 - 70 with no buff frames helping it, while Amprex requires a lot of forma. Plus you actually have to aim with the Amprex - as the owner of a 6 forma Amprex WITH a Riven (MS + CC), I can tell you spraying and waving with it doesn't give any results close to the Ignis (in fact it performs no better than any other beam weapon). Unless you are talking about level 15 and below or are using Chroma/Mirage/Rhino along with it.

If you talk about brutally high level content, the Phage wins them in raw damage and status application.

This is truly the most hyperbolic comment I have read. The Amprex is not even close to as strong as you speak if you do not bother to aim. As for the Ignis, it falls of hard unless built specifically to counter factions. Even then, it eventually falls off. 

32 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Emotive or being completely devoid of feeling at all, the above description of these weapons should not be a thing. And if they are to be some sort of hybrid weapon or have a niche mechanic, then that should lend itself to becoming weaker under certain circumstance like every other weapon in the game.

You can try bringing your Ignis or Amprex to hunt Eidolons or fight a Boss (I don't mean Phorid or the Sergeant). Heck, even today's Razorback is a good option. Not saying it can't be done, but it isn't close to optimal at all.

It just so happens that Ignis (yes, Ignis only, the Amprex isn't as impressive as you wish it was) excels vs enemies you see a lot in game on missions you probably run a lot. So your perception is skewed. That is all.

18 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

As for my use of more sophisticated English... I didn't hide anything, I'm not sure how you came to see the post in any kind of deceptive manner. I do want these weapons altered and did not side step the idea of a nerf, I made that very clear and for sound and solid reasoning. Reasoning that others that were able to understand what was being put across as they didn't approach the post from a position of smugness or rolling their eyes. If you think it is okay to play Warframe using the same weapon from low MR all the way to endgame then I understand, DE themselves have stated it's something they want to be able to happen, but, all other weapon groups serve roles and have major weakness' - weaknesses that can be identified even in low level gameplay. There is no punishment or niche use for weapons like these, they can be used under all but one circumstance, a circumstance that takes forever and a day to even give these weapons a downside. 

Actually, your reasoning just rehashes "I don't want to play this way, I want people to play my way, nerf X because I don't like X and it stops me from playing my way". You are attempting to make it more sound and reasonable through sophistication, which most people who cry for nerfs lack. So on the surface it appears reasonable, but the truth is that you are just asking for people to conform to your view on what a gun should work like and how you think the game is meant to be played. You want to take away someone's toy simply because you don't have it.

Ask yourself, in real life, if some other guy in the class has a laptop with a quantum CPU and maybe RTX 2080SLI BS cards in it, do you have the right to take away or spoil his PC because you don't have the same PC? It becomes worse when you actually can buy said PC and use it, but choose not to for an arbitrary reason. Also, if DE didn't intend for you to play all the way from low MR to MR 27 with the same gun, why did they use that excuse for Rivens?

It isn't a position of smugness. I have just seen a lot of these kinds of threads to recognize them for what they are.

[AzureTerra]

1 hour ago, Astronomicon. said:

Playing a game isn't pressing one button to solve every problem friend. I guess seen as you like to be blunt I should do the same to help you read between the lines?

Then play in your own Highly organized groups that you create and require anyone in them to do as you dictate, ban people from using weapons you don't want in your squad and see how far it goes before you just end up playing solo because people are not interested in how "you" want to play the game. The Game is better for having options, it lets people play how they like. The weapons you call out have as much place in the game as anything else, your narrow view might not include them but that is your choice. The goal of the game is to Kill Hordes of things, to meet mission goals and reap rewards, what better way to deal with hordes than aforementioned AoE Weapons. 

[TurningDrop]

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

Many frame powers need nerfing and have for a long time. No ranged weapons currently ingame need nerfing in comparison. Ranged balance is quite good atm compared to the past.

Some of the frames that rely on building power via kills need more buffing so that they are more PUG friendly and less kill dependent. Prior to that taking place, OP if you take those -few-frames into a PUG and expect people to accommodate you instead of killing the hordes as fast as possible, then that's on you.

WF is an easy mass slay power fantasy for casual players. I gave up on it ever turning into a balanced, skill-based team tactical shooter some time ago and OP should as well.

Maybe DE will change when people start getting sick of not being able to play any other then DPS frames if you want to actually contribute to a group. The reason why CC and support frames aren't as good is because their jobs just aren't needed. Why bring a harrow for support or zephyr for CC when saryn can just spam 4? If people's favorite frames are that useful and they are sick of spamming DPS frames then they'll probably just leave.

[Loza03]

On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎08 at 1:35 AM, Datam4ss said:

1st step - "I want to play the game my way!" - fine, not invalid, everyone wants to play the game their way.

Indeed.

AoE Weapons and Warframes force everyone else to play their way.

That's my problem in all this.

If not nerfing them directly, implement enemies and objectives that favour other weapons and playstyles.

[Kontrollo]

On 2019-03-08 at 1:03 AM, Astronomicon. said:

"We don't need strategic gameplay"... Really? I mean DE haven't really turned this into the enigma code of 3rd person action shooters, but come on now, you prefer games to give you no challenge at all? That's not really a game then is it? It's watching TV.

It's called Cow Clicker.

[MickThejaguar]

Mkay but I like my Ignis Wraith and I most certainly have never screwed up a mission whilst using it, so I don't think it needs to be changed.The worst problem I've had involving an aoe weapon didn't even involve a beam weapon. It's when I tried playing Nidus only to have the enemies I pulled together blasted away by an Arca Plasmor. I don't think the weapon should be removed or nerfed, I'm just wary of people using the weapon when I play Nidus.