Nightwave concept is shafting new and casual players

[mikakor]

14 minutes ago, lighthoof said:

I'm speaking about the cap on amount of task that you can complete in a given time period.

that basically comes to the same thing. if you do not complete the maximum amount of task you can do in a single day, those that you didn't used when the next day come will be wasted. no limit, at all, on the number of task done. otherwise like i said, there will be the same problems.

[lighthoof]

9 minutes ago, mikakor said:

that basically comes to the same thing. if you do not complete the maximum amount of task you can do in a single day, those that you didn't used when the next day come will be wasted. no limit, at all, on the number of task done. otherwise like i said, there will be the same problems.

Well, it just makes it worse - there will be a lot of complaints that people do not have time to keep up with others, who have a lot of free time

Edited March 1, 2019 by lighthoof

[mikakor]

5 minutes ago, lighthoof said:

Well, it just makes it worse - there will be a lot of complaints that people do not have time to keep up with others, who have a lot of free time

except that even with only one hour a day, this could be finished easily. i'm a no-life, so one evening of gaming and i'm done with these challenges, but i counted the in-game time necessary to finish it. the eidolon one put beside ( because #*!% these timed missions tied to a day/night cycle... ) it took less than 8 hours in total to finish everything. even a casual player will be able to access at least rank 20. easy.

[lighthoof]

1 minute ago, mikakor said:

except that even with only one hour a day, this could be finished easily. i'm a no-life, so one evening of gaming and i'm done with these challenges, but i counted the in-game time necessary to finish it. the eidolon one put beside ( because #*!% these timed missions tied to a day/night cycle... ) it took less than 8 hours in total to finish everything. even a casual player will be able to access at least rank 20. easy.

Well, the whole thought behind the cap on amount of tasks was:

1. To provide a greater variety of task so that people would finish them through their normal gameplay and would not be forced to do something they do not like.
2. To cap the amount of task on a reasonable mark, like 2-3 dailies, 8-10 weeklies , so that you can finish those just by playing as usual for an hour a day.

Basically, nothing changes, except you do not need to do those eidolons you don't like - you have a choice to do something else in their stead

[mikakor]

Just now, lighthoof said:

Well, the whole thought behind the cap on amount of tasks was:

1. To provide a greater variety of task so that people would finish them through their normal gameplay and would not be forced to do something they do not like.
2. To cap the amount of task on a reasonable mark, like 2-3 dailies, 8-10 weeklies , so that you can finish those just by playing as usual for an hour a day.

Basically, nothing changes, except you do not need to do those eidolons you don't like - you have a choice to do something else in their stead

even with greater variety, there is absolutely no need to cap anything. if i want to do all the missions in one day, i want to be able to. but people have to get a grip. if you want to rank up, play the content of the game. ALL the content. eidolons are a part of this, too. yes for more diversity, no, forever, to any kind of kind. there is no "reasonable" cap to put, as "reasonable" change for every persons. it's a complete fun-breaker. you did all the quest you could for today? well, too bad, you're stop in your progression because of a complete and total bullS#&$ arbitrary timewall.

personally i would just feel like forced to do the missions, with a cap. let the player base have the option to chose by themselves how much they wanna do, no cap at all. ever... i'm so glad alreayd they didn't put one on this one.

[Kimimoto]

12 hours ago, Newplayer317 said:

You're effectively asking your playerbase to either play at 4000 rpm+ to stay on top of each the Nightwaves, get frustrated instead or simply not play. Parts of your playerbase /will/ chose the latter. The Nightwave mis-design is forcing a part of them out of your game.

No they're not,.. I've played for a few hours yesterday and today, and have almost all the weeklies done. If you don't want to put in the time to do it, then you don't get the reward. Really wish gamers would stop being entitled to every little thing without even playing the game. It's about the journey, not the destination.

[lighthoof]

6 minutes ago, mikakor said:

personally i would just feel like forced to do the missions, with a cap. let the player base have the option to chose by themselves how much they wanna do, no cap at all. ever... i'm so glad alreayd they didn't put one on this one.

But they did ...
There is a limited amount of tasks available

[mikakor]

Just now, lighthoof said:

But they did ...
There is a limited amount of tasks available

if you meant a "cap" in the quantity already available, then i don't exactly mind... for me, is a limit, were you SHOULD BE able to continue... but cna't. for exemple what "i" mean, by cap, is the hard cap that DE put on people of low rank, forcing them to have a low rep gaining limit by day, while the options we have with nightwaves isn't what i would call a cap. ... i don't know how i would call it, but not a cap xD somthing like "doing the maximum" ... and even then, it doesn't fit xD

 

5 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

No they're not,.. I've played for a few hours yesterday and today, and have almost all the weeklies done. If you don't want to put in the time to do it, then you don't get the reward. Really wish gamers would stop being entitled to every little thing without even playing the game. It's about the journey, not the destination.

well damn said.

[lighthoof]

2 minutes ago, mikakor said:

if you meant a "cap" in the quantity already available, then i don't exactly mind... for me, is a limit, were you SHOULD BE able to continue... but cna't. for exemple what "i" mean, by cap, is the hard cap that DE put on people of low rank, forcing them to have a low rep gaining limit by day, while the options we have with nightwaves isn't what i would call a cap. ... i don't know how i would call it, but not a cap xD somthing like "doing the maximum" ... and even then, it doesn't fit xD

So basically you do not want to see that there is something left? I really don't get the thought behind this

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

I counted the time it took to do the bounties in another thread but worth pasting it here aswell.

Deploy a Glyph 10 secs

Scan 25 objects or enemies 2-3 min

Complete 3 Capture missions    5 mins (can be combined with invasions)

Kill 500 enemies    Will be automatically finished by regular play

Complete 3 waves of Sanctuary Onslaught     10 mins

Fully socket 5 Ayatan sculptures    1 free from maroo and 50% chance from rot A on arbitration (so maybe an hour if you dont find one during the rest of the week by just playing)

Complete 8 Bounties in the Plains of Eidolon    Fastest one takes maybe 5 min so 40 min

Complete 9 Invasion missions    I combined this with 3 capture missions plus did 6 phorids (15 min maybe, if you need fieldrons or mutagen mass or coordinates this is a bonus)

Complete 5 scans for Cephalon Simaris    5 Capture missions with your target (maybe 10-15 min)

Kill 100 Eximus enemies    Should be automatically finished just by playing

Kill or capture an Eidolon Hydrolyst    20-30 min solo if geared (faster in premade or pub but maybe not possible for everyone)

Complete a Sortie while playing with a friend or Clan mate    15 min (if you have a friend or clanmate otherwise just friend someone before finishing it, not open to everyone but hey its ELITE wish they skipped the friend/clanmate thing though)

So this boils down to roughly 3 hours during the course of a week (IF we ignore that many of these should be automatically completed if you are just playing the game, if youre not a veteran and have already done evverything 1000times but then the rewards arent really that much use for u anyway except the umbral)

 

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

Quote

Now to remedy the loss of that part, people could in theory just join a clan earlier to have access to researched weapons, however in my region, most recruitment messages have a minimum MR5 - you simply wouldn't get enrolled before. It seems clans want to see a certain degree of dedication before enlisting someone, which I guess is fair enough.

I have a clan that I basically 99% solo built from scratch and I have no problem inviting anyone if they are just after the research.
 

[Hyroncore]

12 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

I am sorry, but apparantly Warframe is not the game for people who get shafted by this system. and since the systems caters to people who say that kind of crap, I have to assume it is DE'S intent to move away from expanding the player base and into squeezing whales with mental assault. I play chinese mobile f2p games that have less grindy events with time limited rewards, so I am really, really worried what influence DE's chinese owners have on this game's future.

Get out of here. Comparing mobile f2ps to this just SHATTERED any credibility you have. How about stop with the comparisons and provide feedback that helps? And nice rather baseless assumption there bro. The majority of people hated alerts as most of the player base has real life issues such as work to attend to. Not even week 1 and the crying has been thunderous. I like how DE is owned by chinese the moment crap goes sour but when people get it easy they are best devs in the universe. This entire outcry has been about easy playing and quite frankly there are many other games that you can run to for that. I am not seeing any of this "casualisation" some refer to nor am I seeing the issues you and others have brought up because I have SEEN grind Blade and Soul AION and more casual games WoW and oh COD/Battlefield. Also people comparing at least be thankful there is no real money skip option like BLOP4 has with its MP battlepasses.

[Veridian]

Hello, I'd like to complain about the UNACCEPTABLE STATE that the game is in, I've been playing for well over an hour now, passed the tutorial, almost MR1 AND I CANT SOLO EIDOLONS! DE are making the game hard on purpose to push plat sales. Not only that, but I'm required to play to get other rewards as well. Pure P2W.

And this new event? I cant afford 3 hours a week, since I'm at 23H shifts at the mines 6 days a week I volunteer at church and take care of my grandma on the 7th day and in the spare time I have to spend time with my wife and the triplets.

It is obvious the community prefers that instant 500 ferrite, to 2 weapon slots, or 3 forma, so what is the reason for this change!?!?!?!?!

How is an event like this going to make people log in regularly is beyond me. NOBODY ASKED TO HAVE MISSIONS THAT MADE HIM HAVE MORE REASON TO PLAY.

Why should someone who puts more effort than me get better rewards?

The old design was perfect, I could get a helmet, Nitain, potato and an aura for free in a day. I may never have, but I could.

ALSO WHY ARE POTATOS NOT FREE!?!?!?!?!?!? WITH THE OLD SYSTEM THEY WERE. For that one hour every month.

I DONT LIKE IT SO ITS ALL BAD DESIGN AND WRONG!

/s off

Seriously though, if they just up the wolf creds from 50 to 100 or let the fugitives grant 5 I think all this autist screeching will holt.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Orblit]

28 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Seriously though, if they just up the wolf creds from 50 to 100 or let the fugitives grant 5 I think all this autist screeching will holt.

 

Pretty much only complaint is that wolf creds being given out in somewhat a low number...can't even buy some things for what was about 2-3 hours of "what's the lips asking of me next."

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Yup.

I'm absolutely positive this update will make players leave in droves.  No wait, that was Fortuna.  No wait, that was removal of raids.  No wait that was PoE.  No wait, that was the Void rework.  No wait........

Edited March 1, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[FlusteredFerret]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Yup.

I'm absolutely positive this update will make players leave in droves.  No wait, that was Fortuna.  No wait, that was removal of raids.  No wait that was PoE.  No wait, that was the Void rework.  No wait........

Lol.

Seems pretty much every update / change makes a small but very vocal section of the player base go REEEEEEE!!!

 

Then presumably they go away, calm down and continue playing...

 

[Jarriaga]

Might as well complain about Arbitrations shafting new and casual players as well.

Not everything has to be accessible to or catered towards new players. Umbra Forma being a late-stage reward speaks for itself.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Veridian]

1 hour ago, Orblit said:

Pretty much only complaint is that wolf creds being given out in somewhat a low number...can't even buy some things for what was about 2-3 hours of "what's the lips asking of me next."

As it should in my opinion. A potato shouldn't be readily available, even though a lot of the people unhappy with the new system would have you believe the old alerts spewed them out like candy. I wasted time to check the alert tracker back 20 days, you can guess how many potato alerts I saw.

The way I see it is that people are romanticizing the possibility of multiple quick rewards without determining their value or the actual overall chance to acquire them.

Cosmetics aside, we had 18 auras of which 5 were worth something, 9 MR fodder Melees and an MR fodder frame. The only other thing worth mentioning was nitain. To compensate for the new and better rewards and the new, certain nature of the old rewards, we will need more time to collect them. A quick calculation says that only the MR fodder is obtainable in 10 weeks, if you don't strain yourself, the auras take 2 weeks and after that initial investment (if you're a new player) everything else will go to nitain and potatoes this is a very important thing to note.

This should also be viewed from a financial point. We cant complain about DE's monetization and with this event they give for free: Forma, Potato, Weapon and Frame slots, all things that are usually a source of income. Naturally this has to be balanced out, by making it that every once in a while, someone will snap and use plat on a jaw sword. NOTE:  it wasn't impossible before with the rng nature of alerts.

It's not even that much of a grind, as much as it's spread out through time. Now, I myself would prefer a bulk of quests or 2-3 lengthy quest chains, but DE obviously tried to address a complaint from the community, that there is often no reason to log back in. Naturally granting said request with an activity that requires 2hrs a week was met with salt.

The only thing I find missing from alerts is their quick play nature, but at this point DE can just add a "random mission" button with some random resource, just to watch the same people who explained how the resource awarding alerts were a thing screech for that as well.

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Methanoid]

34 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Might as well complain about Arbitrations shafting new and casual players as well.

Not everything has to be accessible to catered towards new players. Umbra Forma being a late-stage reward speaks for itself.

considering you can get *that other excal* at MR5, its not really a vet/old player thing, doesnt take long for new players to get to MR5 and they are still technically new at that point.

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

considering you can get *that other excal* at MR5, its not really a vet/old player thing, doesnt take long for new players to get to MR5 and they are still technically new at that point.

Just because you get them at MR5 doesn't mean you're ready to use them at MR5. 200,000 Endo and 10 million credits for all 5 Umbra mods is not something you have as a new player, plus all other Forma investments to make Umbra builds work.

It's not aimed at new players.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Jarriaga

[ArcKnight9202]

All I see is something that gives a few hours of "content" over a few days. There's no reason to look at an alert tracker to see if there's anything interesting up or forma/potatoes. No reason to even play Warframe in those few days. No reason to keep Warframe a strong memory in your mind.

Seems like a solid idea. Have people play it less and eventually forget about it.

Edit: This is the opinion of a late game player.

Edited March 1, 2019 by ArcKnight9202

[Rawbeard]

3 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Comparing mobile f2ps to this just SHATTERED any credibility you have.

you haven't played many, but Nightwave is exactly the same design as limited events I see in them. you literally lost any credibility but not being able to read, so... that's super funny.

[(PSN)nekokujo]

I think grindwalls are ok, but the math on wolf creds really disadvantages newer players. For instance, comparing the effort it takes to get an alt helmet in the old system compared to the new system... one mission versus a whopping 35 creds. Since new players are likely to need all of the other stuff (mods, nitain, etc.), getting alt helmets has now become very costly. Also, consider how much possible nitain (in addition to other rewards from alerts) you could get in random alerts over 10 weeks compared to now. No free oxium infusions either. 

[Teitaka]

The new Nightwave system has a good concept but has very poor execution. Here is how I feel that this system could be improved upon:

1) Remove Wolf Credits as 'Milestone' rewards

2) Change the WEEKLY/DAILY challenges and make all of the challenges 10x DAILY MISSIONS. Make the missions less trivial checklist things like "use a glyph" or "scan 25 targets" etc, and make them full missions like "Complete Europa - Paimon" and "Complete a Bounty in Cetus" etc.

3) Have all the missions reward the player with 1,000 standing and several Wolf Credits each (I'd say around 4-5 wolf credits per mission) this means you get around 40-50 credits a day if you do all missions.

4) Once reaching Milestone 24 (which would be maxxed after removing wolf marks as milestones) each level thereafter would no longer be prestiged as is currently planned, with each level rewarding players with bonus Wolf Credits, but with the player staying at maximum rank obtaining the credits by doing the daily missions.

5) Add Umbra Forma to the offerings for around 300 Wolf Marks. With there being 57 frames, (30+ frames if you discount frames that have a prime variant), with most veterans wanting at least 1 umbral forma on each frame, if not 2 on some frames, at this current rate, it is going to take around 90 months (7½ YEARS) to add 1 Umbra forma to each frame. Since these forma can only be obtained at the rate of 1 per season (10-12 weeks) this is an absurdly long time for players to obtain these items. By making them cost around 300 credits, it would mean that the most dedicated players could obtain 3-4 per season if they do not buy any other items, which is a much more reasonable rate.

[Lutesque]

You're 100% Correct and They are not going to do anything about it.... why ? Because at the end of the day DE Gots to get paid !!! And just like the old system they can only do that by frustrating people with limiting their access to all their essential needs. Its suppose to be hard on new players because new players don't have a practical method of making platinum the same way those who have been playing longer....

I've only just 1000 hours and am now MR19 but still haven't reached a point where I can make decent platinum without RNG (Selling Arcanes from Syndicate Reps). Not that I ever would.... do this since I want uphold the tradition of helping those around me since thats what happened to me.