Everyone Shouldn't (Fully) Complete Everything

[FlusteredFerret]

23 minutes ago, Sabremouse said:

Can confirm. Low ranked casual solo player with limited gear here and have completed my first sortie and ESO (by the skin of my teeth) thanks to Nightwave. A small victory in the bigger scheme but thrilling gaming nonetheless for not knowing if I could pull it off. Although I may not be up for every elite challenge I'm still on track to get my much coveted wolf armor and the harder content currently beyond me is just something to look forward to. I certainly don't feel like I'm missing out. To busy having a blast! Props to DE for.. well.. everything!

Well said.

I'm like you - low ranked (MR10) and most definitely a casual player.

Had my first experience of ESO last night - did better than expected and fulfilled the Nightwave task. May even attempt the sortie one now (something I've avoided until now, as I'm too much of a scrub).

This is making me do and try things I've not done before, taking me out of my "comfort zone" and exposing me to new parts of the game. I'm probably gonna fall well short of the max rank, but I'll do what I can for as long as the event is running.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

but I'll do what I can for as long as the event is running.

that's all anyone can do. I am a player with time to spare and strong gear, but I'm not doing every challenge. I absolutely HATE the conservation mechanic and my Tricap Squad left Warframe ages ago. by doing most of the weeklies, all of the dailies and always capturing the fugitives I should still eventually make it, and Nightwave is likely going to keep getting fixed over time anyway.

good luck with your Sortie if you attempt it, I hope you get what might be your first Riven mod!.

[(PSN)death404]

19 hours ago, aplethoraof said:

I can relate to this premise. I don't collect Rivens because I absolutely despise the RNG and I've pretty much given up hope of getting Umbra Rivens because of the way they are distributed. I keep my MR at the bare minimum to get all the weapons I want, I never feel the need to go above it. Again, too much RNG, too much grind.

Sometimes it is irritating when something is locked behind too large a grind AND I want it, but then I usually just fork out plat (either by purchasing or by trading for plat). I tend to constantly trade stuff I have no intention of using for plat (MR be damned), since I hate grinding up new weapons even though it is relatively quick.

When weapons/frames I want have 15+ MR, I'll probably be in trouble and either have to grind my life out, quit playing, or accept that I won't be able to play with tools that I want to. But for now, it works.

Hopefully, DE won't push it to that extreme, and will stick to this premise that "not everyone will play all the content, so barriers should be kept lower".

Once you hit MR15 you have access to all weapons, and MR16.gets you access to all rivens.

[ShortCat]

20 hours ago, DrBorris said:

-snip-

First, we need to point out flaws this system has.

Biggest misconception in Nightwave is the acquisition of Wolf Creds and Wolf shop prices. With the suggested progress of 30k a week player will have 300 Wolf Creds to spend on everything over the course of 10 weeks. Even with the removal of RNG the total gain is laughable - 1 week for a guaranteed Dark Dagger BP is just sad. Furthermore, with the current Wolf nodes destribution: 3 - 6 - 12! - 16 - 20 - 24 you can see that there are wider gaps than 30K standing.
Experienced palyers on the other hand, can easely complete all challanges or Nightwave tiers and will get even more Wolf Creds from prestige tiers, while they have nothing to buy from the shop, except potatoes.
Conclusion: players who need Wolf Creds will crave for more, while players who can ignore them will have an overabundance.
Solution: either increase Wolf Cred gain via nodes, grant them after completed challanges and/or rebalance shop prices.

Next problem: Wolf shop loot rotations. Loot changes every week and may be reintroduced at the beginning of a circle. An example - there are only 4 auras in a weekly loot table and there are 18 auras obtainable via alerts. This means 1 rotation takes 4-5 weeks. Or more practical: we had Corrosive Projection last week, expect to see it in April again. This problem is amplified by Wolf Creds acquisition as stated previously, becasue there are weeks without Cred gains.
Conclusion: there are heavy time gates within Wolf loot table, that don't even have a purpuse as Creds themselves are limited.
Solution: remove weekly loot rotations or at least expand loot tables.

Nightwave challanges are badly designed. Some have prime troll potential, like 60min kuva; other turn missions into competitions, like kill Eximus, because only your personal kill counts; other are poorly balanced, like complete 8 bounties be it T1 or T5 doesn't matter; others are mindnumbingly boring and tedious, like complete 8 Invasions. Point is, a complete beginner will struggle a lot and hit a wall really fast, intermediate player will be able to include those challanges into his daily routine, while a veteran will visit old, dry and beaten content distracting from actually usefull or enjoyable activities.
Conclusion: your perception of Nightwave challanges will vary according to your progress.
Solution: more creative, less conflicting tasks.

There is no way to catch up. You did a break or just started a game mid season aaand you are screwed. It is understandable to just log off till the end of a season in this situation. Not good for player retention. Even if you continue playing, you will see rewards you will miss 100%. This is just demotivating. Kinda like log in system is.
Furthermore, there is no counter on the stage progress and when it will end or an ingame tutorial for Wolf Creds shop. Next issue added to new player experience.
Conclusion: Battlypass system punishes RL - game balance and offers poor information on its progress or features.
Solution: ???

There are more problems, but those are the biggest ones. DE needs to review Nightwave and fix all glaring issues, before it is too late.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

First, we need to point out flaws this system has.

Biggest misconception in Nightwave is the acquisition of Wolf Creds and Wolf shop prices. With the suggested progress of 30k a week player will have 300 Wolf Creds to spend on everything over the course of 10 weeks. Even with the removal of RNG the total gain is laughable - 1 week for a guaranteed Dark Dagger BP is just sad. Furthermore, with the current Wolf nodes destribution: 3 - 6 - 12! - 16 - 20 - 24 you can see that there are wider gaps than 30K standing.
Experienced palyers on the other hand, can easely complete all challanges or Nightwave tiers and will get even more Wolf Creds from prestige tiers, while they have nothing to buy from the shop, except potatoes.
Conclusion: players who need Wolf Creds will crave for more, while players who can ignore them will have an overabundance.
Solution: either increase Wolf Cred gain via nodes, grant them after completed challanges and/or rebalance shop prices.

Next problem: Wolf shop loot rotations. Loot changes every week and may be reintroduced at the beginning of a circle. An example - there are only 4 auras in a weekly loot table and there are 18 auras obtainable via alerts. This means 1 rotation takes 4-5 weeks. Or more practical: we had Corrosive Projection last week, expect to see it in April again. This problem is amplified by Wolf Creds acquisition as stated previously, becasue there are weeks without Cred gains.
Conclusion: there are heavy time gates within Wolf loot table, that don't even have a purpuse as Creds themselves are limited.
Solution: remove weekly loot rotations or at least expand loot tables.

Nightwave challanges are badly designed. Some have prime troll potential, like 60min kuva; other turn missions into competitions, like kill Eximus, because only your personal kill counts; other are poorly balanced, like complete 8 bounties be it T1 or T5 doesn't matter; others are mindnumbingly boring and tedious, like complete 8 Invasions. Point is, a complete beginner will struggle a lot and hit a wall really fast, intermediate player will be able to include those challanges into his daily routine, while a veteran will visit old, dry and beaten content distracting from actually usefull or enjoyable activities.
Conclusion: your perception of Nightwave challanges will vary according to your progress.
Solution: more creative, less conflicting tasks.

There is no way to catch up. You did a break or just started a game mid season aaand you are screwed. It is understandable to just log off till the end of a season in this situation. Not good for player retention. Even if you continue playing, you will see rewards you will miss 100%. This is just demotivating. Kinda like log in system is.
Furthermore, there is no counter on the stage progress and when it will end or an ingame tutorial for Wolf Creds shop. Next issue added to new player experience.
Conclusion: Battlypass system punishes RL - game balance and offers poor information on its progress or features.
Solution: ???

There are more problems, but those are the biggest ones. DE needs to review Nightwave and fix all glaring issues, before it is too late.

Practically everything in the reward table but the Nitain can be easily obtained by doing either relic fissures and selling the prime parts or vault runs and selling the corrupt mods. Many clan members give away aura mods to new players, I know I do. Nitain only costs 15 credits so they can buy a lot of them quite easily. I urge new players to look into these easy methods of getting enough early plat to acquire the items they need.

Use this standing to gain extra rewards, some cosmetics and exclusives. Don't rely on it for everything you'll need in the game, use events like Plaguestar when it comes around to farm 100 forma and never need them again etc.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[ShortCat]

1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

Practically everything in the reward table but the Nitain can be easily obtained by doing either relic fissures and selling the prime parts or vault runs and selling the corrupt mods. Many clan members give away aura mods to new player, I know I do.

Pay2Skip. We had that with the old alert system as well. This is no way an excuse to how much worse it is right now.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Pay2Skip. We had that with the old alert system as well. This is no way an excuse to how much worse it is right now.

It's not paying to skip if it's free. Earning plat in game is not the same as buying plat to use in the game.

Let's look at it another way. There's over 40 frames each requiring around 5 forma to be really good. That's 40 orokin reactors and 200 forma, which you would not get close to acquiring in a year of the old alerts. With this system, if you actually do all the challenges, you'll gain more catalysts and reactors than you would with the old system. The only thing I think they should add to the shop for new player's sake is forma.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[ShortCat]

1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

It's not paying to skip if it's free. Earning plat in game is not the same as buying plat to use in the game.

Plat does not appear from thin air. Somebody spent money, bought plat from DE and introduced it into economy. Geez, why even farm prime parts, when I can buy everything. Thus pay2skip. Point is, you would get more with the old alert system and your claim to buy missing parts is just ridiculous.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Plat does not appear from thin air. Somebody spent money, bought plat from DE and introduced it into economy. Geez, why even farm prime parts, when I can buy everything. Thus pay2skip. Point is, you would get more with the old alert system and your claim to buy missing parts is just ridiculous.

Correct but you didn't pay for it so who cares how it got there? Why farm instead of buy? Because not everybody wants to buy everything with money. Someone who does would not complain about nightwave because they wouldn't have any issues acquiring gear if they just bought it. 

And no you're wrong, the old system will earn you far less items over time. I guarantee you over this season that I earn far more catalysts and reactors than I would in the old alert system. I'll bet on it.

Tell me, what could you obtain before that you can't easily obtain now? Aura mods go for 10p, which are easily paid for with in game loot. What else is there? Periodic gift of the lotus catalysts and reactors? You'll get more with credit tokens in a season. What else, purely cosmetic helmets that casual players clearly need to improve their gear? Please don't tell me resources cos that's laughable.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[FlusteredFerret]

11 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

It's not paying to skip if it's free. Earning plat in game is not the same as buying plat to use in the game.

Let's look at it another way. There's over 40 frames each requiring around 5 forma to be really good. That's 40 orokin reactors and 200 forma, which you would not get close to acquiring in a year of the old alerts. With this system, if you actually do all the challenges, you'll gain more catalysts and reactors than you would with the old system. The only thing I think they should add to the shop for new player's sake is forma.

You can actually buy forma from the shop - 1 for 20 plat or 3 for 35. Its how I got most of mine for building my dojo.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

You can actually buy forma from the shop - 1 for 20 plat or 3 for 35. Its how I got most of mine for building my dojo.

 

Yeh I know but I reckon they should've added it to the credit offerings because it's something you'll use a hell of a lot of. I must've used 300 or so by now. It would help new players a lot, particularly built forma due to the 24 hour build time block.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[-AiLuoLi-]

24 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

There is no way to catch up. You did a break or just started a game mid season aaand you are screwed. It is understandable to just log off till the end of a season in this situation. Not good for player retention. Even if you continue playing, you will see rewards you will miss 100%. This is just demotivating. Kinda like log in system is.
Furthermore, there is no counter on the stage progress and when it will end or an ingame tutorial for Wolf Creds shop. Next issue added to new player experience.
Conclusion: Battlypass system punishes RL - game balance and offers poor information on its progress or features.
Solution: ???

They can't fool me no matter how they try, Nightwave is basically login 1.0 with grind.

[Kaotyke]

@DrBorris, here:

[IntheCoconut]

39 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

First, we need to point out flaws this system has.

Biggest misconception in Nightwave is the acquisition of Wolf Creds and Wolf shop prices. With the suggested progress of 30k a week player will have 300 Wolf Creds to spend on everything over the course of 10 weeks. Even with the removal of RNG the total gain is laughable - 1 week for a guaranteed Dark Dagger BP is just sad. Furthermore, with the current Wolf nodes destribution: 3 - 6 - 12! - 16 - 20 - 24 you can see that there are wider gaps than 30K standing.
Experienced palyers on the other hand, can easely complete all challanges or Nightwave tiers and will get even more Wolf Creds from prestige tiers, while they have nothing to buy from the shop, except potatoes.
Conclusion: players who need Wolf Creds will crave for more, while players who can ignore them will have an overabundance.
Solution: either increase Wolf Cred gain via nodes, grant them after completed challanges and/or rebalance shop prices.

Next problem: Wolf shop loot rotations. Loot changes every week and may be reintroduced at the beginning of a circle. An example - there are only 4 auras in a weekly loot table and there are 18 auras obtainable via alerts. This means 1 rotation takes 4-5 weeks. Or more practical: we had Corrosive Projection last week, expect to see it in April again. This problem is amplified by Wolf Creds acquisition as stated previously, becasue there are weeks without Cred gains.
Conclusion: there are heavy time gates within Wolf loot table, that don't even have a purpuse as Creds themselves are limited.
Solution: remove weekly loot rotations or at least expand loot tables.

The wolf cred system favors veterans who already have everything. I can focus my efforts on exactly what I need- potatoes- since I don't need a heat sword or a dagger, or a helmet. I can also get 10x more potatoes than I was getting with the old Alert system. Having said that, I'm never going to have an "overabundance" of Wolf Creds. There will always be something useful for me to buy, even if it's just more potatoes. There also isn't a wolf-cred cap. While yes, I only earn 300 within the initial tier 30 rewards, I can continue to farm for additional wolf creds after the tier 30 milestone as stated by DE.

As for new players, here is an unpopular opinion: the old Alert System doled out rewards too easily and too frequently. There, I said it. You might not like hearing it, but sometimes slowing down the rate at which we get rewards can be healthy for the game's longevity. As a new player, I completed all the alerts in probably the first few weeks of playing, with a few that eluded me for months, but then I ignored them for the remainder of my time in Warframe, only checking to see if a Gift of the Lotus was up. This new system may take new players longer to acquire everything they want compared to the old system, they may even have to prioritize what they want because unlocking everything in the first 10 weeks isn't going to be an option, but this new system is more reliable. Yes, it does mean checking back every week, but at least there is no more need to constantly check alerts in the hopes that you get lucky for that one hour of the day to catch that one alert you've been pining for, which is what the community has been complaining about for years. And realistically, a new player isn't even going to need access to a lot of the rewards. What is an MR2, whose likely only made it to Mars with one or two warframes, going to do with potatoes and helmets for warframes they don't own? You don't even need to complete every weekly/daily challenge to earn the wolfcred milestones, making it more than easy for new players to unlock several mods/weapons each week. Lets also look at the benefits of this system to a new player. Nightwave is giving things that are invaluable to a new players like weapon and warframe slots, and just for playing the game.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Nightwave challanges are badly designed. Some have prime troll potential, like 60min kuva; other turn missions into competitions, like kill Eximus, because only your personal kill counts; other are poorly balanced, like complete 8 bounties be it T1 or T5 doesn't matter; others are mindnumbingly boring and tedious, like complete 8 Invasions. Point is, a complete beginner will struggle a lot and hit a wall really fast, intermediate player will be able to include those challanges into his daily routine, while a veteran will visit old, dry and beaten content distracting from actually usefull or enjoyable activities.
Conclusion: your perception of Nightwave challanges will vary according to your progress.
Solution: more creative, less conflicting tasks.

I personally haven't experiences any more or less trolling than what is normal to the game. At most, I get the usual people who are only half paying attention (your limbos and frosts who come back every few minutes to renew their afk-bubbles). In fact, I've noticed a revitalization within the community, and an actual effort to communicate about tasks to coordinate with team members. All it really takes it to just say in chat "hey, I'm working on X" and 9/10 times your team wont hinder your progress, and in some cases, may even try to help. Will new players be unable to complete some of the missions? Sure, but that wont stop them from completing the more-than-achievable 60% needed for the season. It also means you can skip the ones you don't want to do. I didn't do the Cephalons scans last week, or the Hydrolist capture, and I still got my wolf cred milestone, and I'll still have more than enough to end the season. The system is flexible enough that you don't have to do tasks that you don't enjoy. And, as with any new system, DE will continue to adjust and change it as needed (Ayatan sculptures). 

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

There is no way to catch up. You did a break or just started a game mid season aaand you are screwed. It is understandable to just log off till the end of a season in this situation. Not good for player retention. Even if you continue playing, you will see rewards you will miss 100%. This is just demotivating. Kinda like log in system is.
Furthermore, there is no counter on the stage progress and when it will end or an ingame tutorial for Wolf Creds shop. Next issue added to new player experience.
Conclusion: Battlypass system punishes RL - game balance and offers poor information on its progress or features.
Solution: ???

There are more problems, but those are the biggest ones. DE needs to review Nightwave and fix all glaring issues, before it is too late.

DE has already stated that rewards wont be exclusive. They will reappear again in other seasons so if you miss out, it wont be the end of the world. It wont be like Fortnite where if you missed a season, that shiny new cosmetic is gone forever. The system is still also designed so that you'll be rewarded for your time, even if you join mid-way or somehow come shy of getting the last milestone reward, and it does that by offering you wolf creds. Even if I couldn't get the cosmetics at the end of milestone rewards, I'd still feel an incentive to keep complete challenges because I'd earn wolf creds, which offer me things I can't get otherwise (as mentioned, I have a weak spot for potatoes).

Does the system need some balancing and tweaking? Sure, but I think it is a bit early to say there are inherent flaws within this new system before we have given it a chance to prove itself.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

IntheCoconut I applaud your reasoning. If I could give you more than 1 upvote I would.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[(PSN)death404]

19 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

IntheCoconut I applaud your reasoning. If I could give you more than 1 upvote I would.

Agreed. Imo most on-point post in this thread.

[ShortCat]

20 hours ago, IntheCoconut said:

As for new players, here is an unpopular opinion: the old Alert System doled out rewards too easily and too frequently. There, I said it. You might not like hearing it, but sometimes slowing down the rate at which we get rewards can be healthy for the game's longevity.

Well, at least somebody has balls to say load, that he is ready to screw beginners only because Nightaweve offers him more benefits. At his point, there is not much to add, except that parroting deceptive and factually wrong tweets seems to go well with DE's current policy and cultivates the right player type for the future.

[HexOmega111x]

The rank rewards has been made for every type of players. New players will have free weapons slots, warframe slot and forma pack. These are almost a gift from DE to new players. This is what new players need and now they get them for free, something that anyone ever had the chance to get so easely. All 3 just for few hours doing challenges they are able to do. They should thank DE but they are crying all around the forum because they will maybe not get the highest rewards. Scoop incoming... These rewards are not there for them.

New players have a lot of things to do in the game outside of the nightwave event. And all along the different nightwave events, they will play to be able to reach higher ranks every new events. 

Why should they be able to get everything right now ? Should DE give 30 of each relics from the prime vault to new players ? Because a new player will never be able to farm enough of those relics to loot every single parts. No, new players have to make their way thru the content of the game and with time they start to have the means to get those relics. Most of the time, they miss the running prime vault when they start the game. They have more chances to increase their prime parts farming over time, prime vault after prime vault. 

Nightwave should be seen the same way. The more you play, the more you will get. Just a question of time. 

Yes i know, before you had to do 1 mission and get instant rewards. Now you have to wait and you will get less rewards because you will have a limited amount of creds. But you will receive many free things that where not free before. You can not have everything. Just learn to appreciate the value of what you get just by playing the game. 

[MechaEmperor7000]

My problem is with how they define "Veteran content", which is more or less "crank every number up by 30 times". Elite Onslaught isn't "Hard", I've had completely new (MR5 with less than two week's worth of playtime) survive through it just fine with me. The problem is any meaningful reward requires me to sit there doing the exact same motions for 20 minutes. Same with Tridolons; doing one is easy, but then I look at what I need if i want Arcane Grace; to get the arcane revive for the thing I need 10 of them. Each one has a 5% drop chance from a capture that is, at fastest I've done, 10 minutes a pop. And every 40 minutes I gotta wait about another hour for a chance at it. I have quite literally fallen asleep while playing both "end game content" and not only finished them, but came out the top of the squad.

The biggest issue with all of the "broken" content is that they are not fun. They are frustrating and feel like a chore. They don't encourage actual thinking, but merely ask you to endure and stay awake (or in my case, just have enough basic motor functions) doing the same basic motions over and over again. And then they have a hilariously tiny RNG for the good rewards, forcing you to run them over and over again to pad out playtime.

As a counter to this: Fortuna was fun content. At least before the Orbs came. You had clear end goals you could achieve (standing for the loot you wanted) and you had many paths to it. The Bounty stages are fast enough that you never really repeat the same motions for more than a minute, and the rewards for them required you to think (the Bonus system), making them all the more engaging. Fortuna, when it was released, was the most fun I've had in warframe until it was all done. It should be telling that this was the *only* time I ever went "Crap I hit my standing limit" rather than "thank god I'm at my standing limit".

[IntheCoconut]

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Well, at least somebody has balls to say load, that he is ready to screw beginners only because Nightaweve offers him more benefits. At his point, there is not much to add, except that parroting deceptive and factually wrong tweets seems to go well with DE's current policy and cultivates the right player type for the future.

I am glad to know that out of everything I wrote in my last post, the only criticism you have left is about the supposed notion that new players are somehow getting shafted by the new system. I can't help but feel like you are taking what I said out of context and twisting my words to convey something contrary to my intended point, so let me clarify what I meant because I clearly did a poor job at articulating it. The new system benefits new players better than the old alert system.

Will new players gain rewards more slowly than the old Alert system? Yes, but that wont stop them from getting rewards that are most useful to them now. Most Alert rewards were (and even now remain) useless to new players. I understand that with the previous RNG-based Alert system, players had the potential to earn more rewards. For example, there might have been two alerts up, one for a Heat Sword, and one for Equinox's alternate helmet, and nothing was preventing that player (other than needing to unlock the star chart) from collecting both rewards. While they could earn both rewards, it didn't change the fact that the Equinox helmet was/is completely useless to a new player unless they unlocked Equinox with platinum because they wont have access to her at this point in the game otherwise.

With the new system, a new player will have to pick and choose if they want to spend their wolf creds on the Heat Sword, or the Equinox helmet. It means they might want to actually wait until they have unlocked equinox on the star chart before they start unlocking cosmetics for a frame they don't own. I understand that to you, it just boils down to less rewards, but my point is, are new players really missing out if they can't even use said rewards until much further down the road? Especially when the trade-off is access to more usefull rewards right now, instead of waiting on RNGesus to deliver the alert they need.

And lets not ignore my other point, which is that new Night Wave system actively rewards new players with things that are invaluable to their progress, such as free warframe slots, and free weapon slots. This is major. New players' progress wont suddenly be hindered by the fact that, very early on, they need to acquire platinum to continue building weapons/frames. This is a direct solution to that. New players can just focus on playing the game instead of needing to decide if they want to invest real money into a game they just started playing.

I personally fail to see how getting warframe/weapon slots, forma, and more reliable access to useful mods/weapons is somehow shafting new players.

 

[xXIcyBladeXx]

And this is why DE is scared to cater to any one side. 

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

28 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

-snip-

The shafting comes down to a verity of things. The bullet points go as fallows

To a new player the alerts that many older players felt unnecessary (credits, plastids, oxium, salvage, argon crystals, etc.) were invaluable. Watching a friend start out I taxied them to several alerts to help them get resources needed to build new gear. These resources are easier to get at later planets in higher quantities but for the new guy who only has the first 3 planets then a large challenge is just getting what you need to build better gear.

For players who can only complete the daily and weekly events they will at best get wolf creds every 2 weeks. Those wolf creds are far more valuable to them then older players who will have an easier time getting them. Why? Because how many older players really needed the Vauban parts? Most of us have all the aura mods we want/need but newer players may not have any and they are arguably a very important part of builds. Those heat swords we have all gotten a million times? They have never had them so they are missing out on that MR and testing a decent weapon for newer players.

If they manage to get those wolf creds they are forced to choose and decide what's more important parts for a new frame, a new weapon, or niatan needed to build better weapons/warframes/archwing. They are forced to choose because all the things they would need are priced fairly high. Each aura mod is 20 creds, each weapon is 50 creds, Vauban is 25 creds a part (for a 75 cred total), and extract is 15 creds for 5 (probably the only reasonably priced thing  but going to be used more by those building prime items). If they can't get their creds and they wanted something or if there were two-three things they wanted then too bad because the shop changes every week.

One of the biggest things that new players are going to want/need is the Rank 8 reward. Now lets go back to the concept of a new player only being able to rank up 3 times in 2 weeks. That Rank 8 reward would be obtainable to them at week 6ish in a 10 week end. That's a bit long but reasonable enough, but if a new player can't complete most of their weeklys (such as Ayatan, Sorties, or relic cracking because they lack the nodes) then we will say they can get 1 rank a week. 8 weeks to get the warframe slot in a 10 week event doesn't leave a lot of leeway. Less when you realize that for newer players a 5 minute spy mission can take them 20 minutes. The things that they are going to want/need are going to be harder for them to get then older players who CAN do the elite challenges and weekly challenges.

New players can't do Kuva missions, Sorties, Tridolons, won't last in hour long missions unless carried (which they may or may not be able to live long enough for), Killing a single Eximus can be a challenge for them let alone land the killing blow on 100 of them. These challenges that mid/experienced players laugh at can be the road block that keeps new players from moving up in the ranking. How is that remotely more reliable for new players? They had a chance of getting something every time they logged on if they could get a taxi vs now there is no guarantee that in 2 weeks they can earn the wolf creds needed to get literally anything.

Returning to your point of new players with things like Equinox alt helmets, why does that bother you? I have talked to several players that only farmed a frame because they got an alt helmet for them. A banshee alt helm would pop up and I would see new players asking who they had to assassinate to get her, which would then lead to them asking about dojos and joining clans who could help them. I have personally taxied people to get frames because they liked the alt helmets so much. (Ember taxi's but there were a few for Valkyr). With helmets being 50 creds a pop we are going to see a lot less of that but there will still be players who get the alt helms long before they get the frames. Hell I had the Kohra Alt helm from an alert the day she came out and I didn't get her till about a month ago.

So while you may personally not see how this is a bad system for new players others do. This is a good system for "Elite" players but for new players this is worse then alerts ever were.

[HexOmega111x]

You prove just one thing. DE was way too generous with the alert system. They were literally throwing things in the players inventory but now they will have to make choices and be patient. 

They will not have less, they will have more useful things in the rank reward pool and have a large choice in the cred shop. 

And don't forget that a new player will not remain a new player forever. At some point, everthing will be easier for him too. Cosmetics, patatoes, nitains will always be in the loot table. There are not hundred of special mods so they will come back pretty quick in the rotation. 

And in the end, after few months of nightwave, everyone will have the same amount of loot that they would have receive with the alerts system but now even more because of the new things they added in the rank reward pool. 

Players are the winners here, just get a larger view of the situation. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by HexOmega111x

[3rdpig]

My biggest complaint with NW is that it's just not that much fun for me. And Nora is immersion breaking to boot. I'll still probably do enough of it to hit the max level at the end of 10 weeks, but at the end I'll lift a glass to Nora and say "You're fired!". 

I have friends I play with who are either trying to ignore it/her or are playing other games. 

Hopefully DE learns from this and has a better player experience planned for the future. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by 3rdpig
Spelling and grammar

[IntheCoconut]

2 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

The shafting comes down to a verity of things. The bullet points go as fallows

To a new player the alerts that many older players felt unnecessary (credits, plastids, oxium, salvage, argon crystals, etc.) were invaluable. Watching a friend start out I taxied them to several alerts to help them get resources needed to build new gear. These resources are easier to get at later planets in higher quantities but for the new guy who only has the first 3 planets then a large challenge is just getting what you need to build better gear.

For players who can only complete the daily and weekly events they will at best get wolf creds every 2 weeks. Those wolf creds are far more valuable to them then older players who will have an easier time getting them. Why? Because how many older players really needed the Vauban parts? Most of us have all the aura mods we want/need but newer players may not have any and they are arguably a very important part of builds. Those heat swords we have all gotten a million times? They have never had them so they are missing out on that MR and testing a decent weapon for newer players.

If they manage to get those wolf creds they are forced to choose and decide what's more important parts for a new frame, a new weapon, or niatan needed to build better weapons/warframes/archwing. They are forced to choose because all the things they would need are priced fairly high. Each aura mod is 20 creds, each weapon is 50 creds, Vauban is 25 creds a part (for a 75 cred total), and extract is 15 creds for 5 (probably the only reasonably priced thing  but going to be used more by those building prime items). If they can't get their creds and they wanted something or if there were two-three things they wanted then too bad because the shop changes every week.

One of the biggest things that new players are going to want/need is the Rank 8 reward. Now lets go back to the concept of a new player only being able to rank up 3 times in 2 weeks. That Rank 8 reward would be obtainable to them at week 6ish in a 10 week end. That's a bit long but reasonable enough, but if a new player can't complete most of their weeklys (such as Ayatan, Sorties, or relic cracking because they lack the nodes) then we will say they can get 1 rank a week. 8 weeks to get the warframe slot in a 10 week event doesn't leave a lot of leeway. Less when you realize that for newer players a 5 minute spy mission can take them 20 minutes. The things that they are going to want/need are going to be harder for them to get then older players who CAN do the elite challenges and weekly challenges.

New players can't do Kuva missions, Sorties, Tridolons, won't last in hour long missions unless carried (which they may or may not be able to live long enough for), Killing a single Eximus can be a challenge for them let alone land the killing blow on 100 of them. These challenges that mid/experienced players laugh at can be the road block that keeps new players from moving up in the ranking. How is that remotely more reliable for new players? They had a chance of getting something every time they logged on if they could get a taxi vs now there is no guarantee that in 2 weeks they can earn the wolf creds needed to get literally anything.

Returning to your point of new players with things like Equinox alt helmets, why does that bother you? I have talked to several players that only farmed a frame because they got an alt helmet for them. A banshee alt helm would pop up and I would see new players asking who they had to assassinate to get her, which would then lead to them asking about dojos and joining clans who could help them. I have personally taxied people to get frames because they liked the alt helmets so much. (Ember taxi's but there were a few for Valkyr). With helmets being 50 creds a pop we are going to see a lot less of that but there will still be players who get the alt helms long before they get the frames. Hell I had the Kohra Alt helm from an alert the day she came out and I didn't get her till about a month ago.

So while you may personally not see how this is a bad system for new players others do. This is a good system for "Elite" players but for new players this is worse then alerts ever were.

I see what you are saying, but I guess I should define what "new player" means. I'm not talking about people that literally just started the game, in which case they have much more important things to focus on such as completing the multi-staged Vor's Prize to restore their ship's functionality, getting to their first junction, learning how to play the game, etc. A brand new player is not going to have a shortage of things to do and focus on. And in that regard, yes a brand new MR1 player will miss out because we can't just taxi them to an alert. For any other newer, low MR player, whose completed the tutorial, has their foundry and navigation, worked on getting through some of the star chart, it wont take them long to get these things for themselves through Wolf Creds.

It is perfectly achievable to get 50 creds the first week, and another 50 creds the second week, totaling 100 creds in two weeks. The first cred milestone is at tier 3, and the second milestone is at tier 6, requiring a total of 60,000 Night Wave reputation out of a possible total of 86,000 rep, which is achievable even if a new player skips 2 weekly elites, and a myriad of dailies or another weekly. At worst, a new player wont be able to pick and choose which missions to skip whereas a long-time player will. A veteran can say "I don't want to do Kuva, so I wont" whereas a new player will say "I can't access kuva yet, so I have to do everything else." To that I can understand a new players frustration over having less freedom to pick and choose which missions to do/not do, but that flexibility will come naturally as they complete tasks in the game and progress further into the star chart. I still see this as being no different from the old alert system. If your argument is that the Alert System was better because you could taxi low MR friends to missions they couldn't access, then simply do the same with the Night Wave system by carrying them through a Kuva or Eidolon mission.

Moving on from here, I again think you are exaggerating the difficulty and time required to earn reputation. Rank 8 is only 80,000 reputation, when we are given a weekly cap through challenges of 43,000. Even if they can't do elite challenges yet, or they can't find someone to carry them through it (much like we were just discussing had to be done with the Alert system), then they are still more than capable of getting 28,000 each week on their own just from doing dailies/weeklies. Looking at this week, the only thing a newer player might not have access to is a Kuva mission, and a Sortie. Relics can be opened on Earth, Rare mods can be farmed from Assassination missions on any planet. If you aren't MR 3 and thus don't have the capability of joining a Syndicate, and you don't have heat/cold/electric mods yet for the dailies, then take that as a sign from the game indicating to you that you have more important and immediate things to focus on. If we eliminate the Sortie and the Kuva mission (in case you can't find someone to carry you), you can still achieve 35,000 rep this week.

As for helmets, I had no issue with earning helmets for frames I don't own. I have the Chroma's alt helmet, despite not having Chroma. And nothing about this new system is going to stop a new player from seeing a helmet they like and asking how they can go about getting the corresponding frame. The only difference is that now, in addition to getting the frame, they'll need to farm for the helmet. I personally don't see the issue with that either, but that's just my opinion. I still don't have Vaubaun, despite the old alert system, and despite being MR 16, whereas an MR 20 might not have Gara, whereas I do, and its because we prioritize things differently and that's totally fine. If a new player wants Vauban, than they can still work toward that goal, just like if they want an alternate helmet, they can work toward that too. 

I've seen a lot of veteran players arguing on "behalf" of newbies, and yet the only confirmed new player to comment in this thread said that they enjoyed the Night Wave system because the game challenged them to do new things.

Edited March 6, 2019 by IntheCoconut