So I attempted your 60 min Challenge, DE...

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, Xylia said:

You need 60-70% of the total standing.

This week features not one, but two 60 minute survivals totalling 8,000 standing between the two.

Pretty sure missing 8,000 standing this week means that you won't get the 30k standing this week avg to keep on track for the 30,000 over 10 weeks if you want to see Rank 30 before all the stuff is yanked away, esp since one of the other 5k acts involves a Lv70 solo mission which I can't do that either.

And another asks for 8 rare mods in one week. hahaha yeah right. I've gotten 2 so far.

actually that's 10,000 standing. However, you can miss 13,000 per week according to present estimates

Plus, protip, running index gets you the 8 rares in very short order. As does anything that has a guarantee to drop a gold mod, like Corrupted Vor.

As long as it's picked up not a mission reward, you're golden

[DeMonkey]

26 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

Because 10 weeks is a lot of grinding, and it would absolutely suck to end up locked out of the rank 30 reward.

So the math was "redone" and found to be inaccurate based on random assumptions with the intent to ensure you don't miss out on rank 30?

Why not go all out then? In that case then, that math is inaccurate, I've just redone it in my head right now, you need to do every single one starting from now to make sure you hit rank 30. Tah dah. 

7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

you're golden

That was beautiful.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

That was beautiful.

Thank you.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

So the math was "redone" and found to be inaccurate based on random assumptions with the intent to ensure you don't miss out on rank 30?

What actually IS the math? I've seen people cite "60%" with no reference, but by my estimate that's closer to 70%. 7 Dailies, 7 Weeklies and 3 Elite Weeklies comes up to 43 000 per week, 430 000 per season for a total of 300 000 needed to reach level 30. That's ~69.77% of all possible standing. Considering Elite Weeklies constitute 15 000 of that per week or ~34.88%, then JUST missing all the Elite challenges already puts you out of reach of 30. Admittedly I'm basing this math on the missions I've seen pop up in Nightwave so I might be counting something wrong, but that's pretty demanding, not to mention hugely back-loaded into Elite Weeklies.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I've seen people cite "60%" with no reference

Steve himself, on Twitter ofc. Such an important figure would never be posted on the appropriate forums.

[Steel_Rook]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Steve himself, on Twitter ofc. Such an important figure would never be posted on the appropriate forums.

Right, and I've seen this "Steve" quote all over the forums. My question was more what that number is based on, and what it actually means. Can you skip 60% of challenges and if so which ones? Can you skip 60% of standing, and if so doesn't that heavily back-load the system onto Elite Weeklies? I've seen people cite over 50 000 standing per week, and I'm just not seeing where that might come from, based on the missions we actually have available. I'm not trying to S#&$-talk a developer (assuming that's a developer there), so much as trying to get some understanding as to how he came up with that number and what it means for my experience.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Steel_Rook

[Xylia]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Right, and I've seen this "Steve" quote all over the forums. My question was more what that number is based on, and what it actually means. Can you skip 60% of challenges and if so which ones? Can you skip 60% of standing, and if so doesn't that heavily back-load the system onto Elite Weeklies? I've seen people cite over 50 000 standing per week, and I'm just not seeing where that might come from, based on the missions we actually have available. I'm not trying to S#&$-talk a developer (assuming that's a developer there), so much as trying to get some understanding as to how he came up with that number and what it means for my experience.

You can get 150 standing in a single mission if you capture the 3 convicts that will sometimes spawn.

The players who get 50k in one week are spamming mission after mission after mission trying to get the 3 convicts to spawn (from my experiences, I'd guess about a 1-in-3 chance of seeing them), and I guess, if you get lucky I assume the Wolf himself gives standing when you kill him. I assume.

I've never seen him, so.....

Edited March 5, 2019 by Xylia

[Xaxma]

8 hours ago, Xylia said:

I like how some people utterly fail to understand how Networking works.

In another thread (the one that got locked), @Xaxma said "You can adjust what pings you connect to". Um, do you not know how Networking works?

Pings are not the sole cause of interrupts in play. You can lose the entire mission to.....

1). A power outage.

2). A PC crash (regardless of how powerful or not your rig is)

3). The game crashing (Warframe is 99.9% stable, but that 0.1% could strike at any time, including 54 minutes into a mission)

4). A Modem/Router locking up.

5). Any computer between you and the rest of your peers deciding to go 'durrrrr' and stop transmitting data for 5-10 seconds.

6). Host can have an awesome internet connection and a very low ping, but a PC barely able to run Warframe and your lag will spike during a survival because their PC is choking on how much data it has to process.

NONE OF THESE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PING. (all-caps is for emphasis, not yelling)

All of the above can happen, even if your pings are 50ms or less. Now I know what @Xaxma is going to say to this: "Your router sucks" or "Your modem sucks", or "Your PC sucks". It doesn't matter how good your hardware is, this stuff can happen to anybody's hardware, regardless of the quality. You could have a $5,000 rig and it can lock up. Instead of putting the blame on the player, why don't we take a step back and realize that the problem really lies within the game design, expecting people to do unreasonable things, instead?

And it doesn't matter if any of the above happens to you, or the Host, you will lose all progress in the mission (because Host Migration still isn't very reliable).

This is why, over the years, I've been very outspoken against long missions because the game does not have any protections against this kind of stuff whatsoever, no recourse of action to recover lost time/efforts, nothing. No partial mission rewards, nothing.

To try to force people to spend 60 minutes in one mission is ridiculous. There's no other way to say that. Expecting reliable 60 minute continuous peer-to-peer connections is just not reasonable.

And again: Ping has absolutely nothing to do with it; you can have a 1ms LAN connection and still have any of the aforementioned problems happen (except for maybe an ISP or other computer locking up).

Then why bend the rules for the 0.1% when the 99.9% never have such an issue? Treat it as an individual case and leave it at that. They'll fix their networking problems when they can, as they usually do given their frequency of hotfixing glitches and bugs.

Most of the time, when a host loses connection, the host transfers to another readily available player after a fairly annoying but somewhat brief interruption. It's frankly quite rare to have a mission completely bug out or disband the entire party immediately after a host migration. Personally, it's happened to me maybe twice this year so far within the 200 hours I've put in since Jan.

Coming to the forums and creating a contorted, disingenuous image of what the 60 minute challenge is like to the tiny minority of players that got jipped like this is just part of the outrage culture that tries to make a mountain of a mole hill, and it's quite tiresome to listen to considering the forums does nothing but serve largely as an nonconstructive reservoir of complaints and baseless objection for the sake of objecting.

It's a nonissue. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Xaxma

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

4 hours ago, Xylia said:

To be fair, giving someone a reason to stay in a mission for longer is different than requiring someone to stay in a mission for longer.

I never asked for longer missions, and I'd appreciate not being strongarmed into doing it, thanks.

Well strong armed is a bit harsh but I do agree.

Besides I see only extremely hard core players with nothing better to do as the target for this task not people with limited time like those with a life, job/s, family responsibilities, ect. 

[Xylia]

2 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Then why bend the rules for the 0.1% when the 99.9% never have such an issue? Treat it as an individual case and leave it at that. They'll fix their networking problems when they can, as they usually do given their frequency of hotfixing glitches and bugs.

Most of the time, when a host loses connection, the host transfers to another readily available player after a fairly annoying but somewhat brief interruption. It's frankly quite rare to have a mission completely bug out or disband the entire party immediately after a host migration. Personally, it's happened to me maybe twice this year so far within the 200 hours I've put in since Jan.

Coming to the forums and creating a contorted, disingenuous image of what the 60 minute challenge is like to the tiny minority of players that got jipped like this is just part of the outrage culture that tries to make a mountain of a mole hill, and it's quite tiresome to listen to considering the forums does nothing but serve largely as an nonconstructive reservoir of complaints and baseless objection for the sake of objecting.

It's a nonissue. 

Not really "bending the rules" but rather "let's not make the rules like that in the first place".

Would it have killed them to ask for 2x 30min survivals instead?

If it's about the challenge, then put a minimum level on it. Instead of "60 minute survival with a friend", make it "2x 30min Survival with a Friend of Level 20+"

EDIT: Also I have never, ever, ever seen a successful Host Migration in an Endless mission yet.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Xylia

[Xaxma]

1 hour ago, Xylia said:

Not really "bending the rules" but rather "let's not make the rules like that in the first place".

Would it have killed them to ask for 2x 30min survivals instead?

If it's about the challenge, then put a minimum level on it. Instead of "60 minute survival with a friend", make it "2x 30min Survival with a Friend of Level 20+"

EDIT: Also I have never, ever, ever seen a successful Host Migration in an Endless mission yet.

What's the point then? The point was to face level 150 enemies. That's the real challenge. 

[sam686]

14 hours ago, Xylia said:

3). The game crashing (Warframe is 99.9% stable, but that 0.1% could strike at any time, including 54 minutes into a mission)

"Warframe has crashed" on me at survival mission time=55:44, at least I was able to quickly get back on and rejoin. Volt discharge the cause of this crash? WAR-2240567

I mostly don't like very long 1 hour missions as anything can go wrong.

[5H4DE]

At least you ain't complaining it's a ridiculously hard challenge like the rest I've seen.

[Mr.Fluffins]

18 hours ago, Xylia said:

@Xaxma

Instead of putting the blame on the player, why don't we take a step back and realize that the problem really lies within the game design, expecting people to do unreasonable things, instead?

And it doesn't matter if any of the above happens to you, or the Host, you will lose all progress in the mission (because Host Migration still isn't very reliable).

This is why, over the years, I've been very outspoken against long missions because the game does not have any protections against this kind of stuff whatsoever, no recourse of action to recover lost time/efforts, nothing. No partial mission rewards, nothing.

To try to force people to spend 60 minutes in one mission is ridiculous. There's no other way to say that. Expecting reliable 60 minute continuous peer-to-peer connections is just not reasonable.

And again: Ping has absolutely nothing to do with it; you can have a 1ms LAN connection and still have any of the aforementioned problems happen (except for maybe an ISP or other computer locking up).

This x10 times, I hope more people and the developers realize this.

13 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

And this is the very reason Xaxma made one of the topics she did.  The forums say they want one thing, and then complain like spoiled children when DE gives it to them.  DE is pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't.  

You do realize that the people who asked for more incentives to play endless before and people who complain about the challenge now ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE? People who wanted more incentives for endless were a small portion of FORUM community (which in itself is a tiny portion of the playerbase). And oh surprise, when you do something that only pleases a small porition of a small portion of your playerbase, you piss off a lot of people, especially considering the fact that the game is not very well made for long missions in the first place, both in terms of design and stability.

You can bring up the point that "oh you don't need to do all challenges to get the rewards" to which I reply that it's not entirely true. In theory I can skip some, but in reality I, and I am sure many other people, feel pressured to do get as much standing as possible due to uncertainty. I don't know whether the next week's challenges won't be even worse to me personally. I also cannot be certain that I will be able to play warframe much next weeks due to various reasons, including RL stuff (which means missing most daily challenges and potentially some weeklies).

Considering that the stuff I really want is locked behind highest tiers, gotta force myself to grind this crap now to get a buffer for later. If the event and the rewards weren't time limited, I am sure this would be less of an issue, for me at least, since me not being able to do the missions would only affect how quickly I can get the rewards, not whether I get them at all.

[(XBOX)THANOTOS OMEGA]

the with a friend thing is also an issue since if you can't afford Xbox live gold you basically can't hope to complete the event,

[Klokwerkaos]

Nightwave is completely optional.

 

If you can't do it because you're undergeared, or you suck, or a bug happens, you missed literally nothing.

None of the rewards are essential, they are all opt in participation trophies.

"But what about the umbra forma?!?!?!"  I hear you reeeeeeeeee;

You don't need it to complete everything in the game with your eyes closed.  Additionally, it's a crap reward because of the time gate.  If we assume 1 every 3 months, that's over 4 years before you can min/max 5 frames you like to use and weapon with umbral forma.  Since it's not ever needed to curb stomp the game into oblivion, you literally need none of it and chasing it is literally just to give veteran collectors something to waste time on and keep everyone else playing so there are more concurrent players which A) makes shareholders happy and B) you buy more crap the more you play.

Given how DE is allergic to creating content suited to the power level of the game, it's safe bet that if they ever create content that would need umbral forma that they will start growing on trees three months before release.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[TheSkunkyMonk]

20 hours ago, Xylia said:

You need 60-70% of the total standing.

This week features not one, but two 60 minute survivals totalling 8,000 standing between the two.

Pretty sure missing 8,000 standing this week means that you won't get the 30k standing this week avg to keep on track for the 30 ranks over 10 weeks if you want to see Rank 30 before all the stuff is yanked away, esp since one of the other 5k acts involves a Lv70 solo mission which I can't do that either.

And another asks for 8 rare mods in one week. hahaha yeah right. I've gotten 2 so far.

Index is your friend, no doubt get all 8 in one run.

 

Anyway I feel the pain, got to 43 minutes then someone reloaded and messed it up, bugs and grind just aint fun, would be so much better if they stuck with waves instead of seasons and let us complete each one at our own pace and only resetting when we reach the end tier for that Wave.

[(PSN)case627]

8 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

At least you ain't complaining it's a ridiculously hard challenge like the rest I've seen.

If you were actually worried about the difficultly aspect I assume you would you have no objections if there was some sort of way of bypassing the first 40-45 minutes?  Something along the lines of "Complete a 20 minute survival with level 100 enemies?".

Most people I've seen object to the fact they really don't want to sit there mindlessly killing and waiting for the enemies to actually present some sort of threat.  Let's stop pretending that being willing to sit through those first 45 minutes is some grand display of skill.

[breakdafunk]

21 hours ago, Xylia said:

You need 60-70% of the total standing.

This week features not one, but two 60 minute survivals totalling 8,000 standing between the two.

Pretty sure missing 8,000 standing this week means that you won't get the 30k standing this week avg to keep on track for the 30 ranks over 10 weeks if you want to see Rank 30 before all the stuff is yanked away, esp since one of the other 5k acts involves a Lv70 solo mission which I can't do that either.

And another asks for 8 rare mods in one week. hahaha yeah right. I've gotten 2 so far.

For the mods play Index.

[5H4DE]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)case627 said:

If you were actually worried about the difficultly aspect I assume you would you have no objections if there was some sort of way of bypassing the first 40-45 minutes?  Something along the lines of "Complete a 20 minute survival with level 100 enemies?".

Most people I've seen object to the fact they really don't want to sit there mindlessly killing and waiting for the enemies to actually present some sort of threat.  Let's stop pretending that being willing to sit through those first 45 minutes is some grand display of skill.

I'd pump that to 30-40 minutes but no I don't have a problem with it. My gripe really is with the amount of people whining it is too hard for them when the challenge is a snooze fest.

As far as players having issues with the connectivity problems that come with long runs and possible griefers, nothing to say against them, those are legitimate issues.

[DerGreif2]

On 2019-03-05 at 2:07 PM, Xylia said:

A power outage.

Your problem.

 

On 2019-03-05 at 2:07 PM, Xylia said:

A PC crash (regardless of how powerful or not your rig is)

Your problem.

 

On 2019-03-05 at 2:07 PM, Xylia said:

The game crashing

VERY rare. Its not impossible because you get a crash every 1000 games.

 

On 2019-03-05 at 2:07 PM, Xylia said:

A Modem/Router locking up.

Your problem.

 

On 2019-03-05 at 2:07 PM, Xylia said:

5). Any computer between you and the rest of your peers deciding to go 'durrrrr' and stop transmitting data for 5-10 seconds. 

6). Host can have an awesome internet connection and a very low ping, but a PC barely able to run Warframe and your lag will spike during a survival because their PC is choking on how much data it has to process.

Do it with people in region chat or the clan with people in your region.

 

 

besides host migrations there is really nothing that that can go wrong. if you want to be the host then open a group and invite people. Its not that hard...

[DerGreif2]

Btw: Nightwave is not for casual player or new ones. Its for late game players and semi casuals. Its all ez doable in a week. You have a weekend and a chat that can help. if you dont want to do that then dont do it. End of the story.

[DerGreif2]

On 2019-03-05 at 7:28 PM, Xylia said:

esp since one of the other 5k acts involves a Lv70 solo mission which I can't do that either.

If you cant even kill level 70 enemy's you missed clearly something (and what mission do you even mean that you have to do solo?)

 

On 2019-03-05 at 7:28 PM, Xylia said:

And another asks for 8 rare mods in one week. hahaha yeah right. I've gotten 2 so far.

Index. Thats all you need.

 

 

it feels like you are a new player or a player that is not really playing the game like... at all. In both cases: deal with it and get better. End of the story.

Edited March 6, 2019 by DerGreif2

[Nigolasy]

Am 5.3.2019 um 21:12 schrieb Steel_Rook:

Right, and I've seen this "Steve" quote all over the forums. My question was more what that number is based on, and what it actually means. Can you skip 60% of challenges and if so which ones? Can you skip 60% of standing, and if so doesn't that heavily back-load the system onto Elite Weeklies? I've seen people cite over 50 000 standing per week, and I'm just not seeing where that might come from, based on the missions we actually have available. I'm not trying to S#&$-talk a developer (assuming that's a developer there), so much as trying to get some understanding as to how he came up with that number and what it means for my experience.

 

You have to do about 60-65% of all challenges

[Xylia]

1 hour ago, DerGreif2 said:

Your problem.

 

Your problem.

 

VERY rare. Its not impossible because you get a crash every 1000 games.

 

Your problem.

 

Do it with people in region chat or the clan with people in your region.

 

 

besides host migrations there is really nothing that that can go wrong. if you want to be the host then open a group and invite people. Its not that hard...

You mind telling me how/why a Power Outage (on either my part, or the Host's) is my fault/my problem?

You mind telling me how/why the Host's PC/Modem/Router locking up is my fault/my problem?

You mind explaining that?

I can never understand the crowd that wants to pin ALL the blame on the player, even for things they had zero control over, who refuse to accept the fact that there are limitations to Peer-to-Peer connections, that we should take into account when it comes to game design.

Let's not improve the game or anything, oh no, let's just point fingers at people to have the audacity to live in an area where the power grid is somewhat unstable at times, or point fingers at people for having the audacity of having a modem/router that can sometimes lock up randomly.

How dare they.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Xylia