The problem with Nightwave

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

For the Forma task, I decided to make a Tatsu. New weapon, new forma opportunity. And it's pretty cool! You could easily dump 3 forma in Tatsu.

I just threw it on some weapons that I don't use. And gave one to Hildryn.

[rand0mname]

9/10, OP. Will click again.

Edited March 19, 2019 by rand0mname

[Teljaxx]

5 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

No. You're not forced. I don't agree with the forma task but you're not forced at all.

You are forced to if you need the standing. And if you want to get the absolute maximum rewards out of the season, then you need the standing.

[HellVOps]

25 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You are forced to if you need the standing. And if you want to get the absolute maximum rewards out of the season, then you need the standing.

"want to get the absolute maximum rewards out of the season" that's just your/their greed, why sugar coat it?

[nslay]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

I just threw it on some weapons that I don't use. And gave one to Hildryn.

I'm still new, so I try to make my forma go the furthest when I invest it in weapons. I've never made a forma'd melee weapon and thought Tatsu or Lesion would be good melee weapons (I'm MR 13 so I can't make, for example gram prime!). I chose Tatsu since it's brand new, seemingly decent and ready for whatever melee 3.0 brings. I got a hybrid build with condition overload and berserk. Crit is mainly just for Berserk so I can apply more status procs faster. But those umbra mods... Hence forma! It's a perfect opportunity!

[mcKentucky]

Woosh

[JackHargreav]

8 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You are forced to if you need the standing. And if you want to get the absolute maximum rewards out of the season, then you need the standing.

How many times do I have to tell ppl, that you need 65% of the tasks every weak?

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

I'm still new, so I try to make my forma go the furthest when I invest it in weapons. I've never made a forma'd melee weapon and thought Tatsu or Lesion would be good melee weapons (I'm MR 13 so I can't make, for example gram prime!). I chose Tatsu since it's brand new, seemingly decent and ready for whatever melee 3.0 brings. I got a hybrid build with condition overload and berserk. Crit is mainly just for Berserk so I can apply more status procs faster. But those umbra mods... Hence forma! It's a perfect opportunity!

Eh... I don't find the Tatsu very good.  I'll just stick to my Sigma and Octantis and Redeemer prime. Though Tatsu is a great cosmetic for Revenant so I'll keep it just for that.

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Eh... I don't find the Tatsu very good.  I'll just stick to my Sigma and Octantis and Redeemer prime. Though Tatsu is a great cosmetic for Revenant so I'll keep it just for that.

Guaranteed slash status proc from Wise Razor, decent status, and free innate elemental damage for additional possible status proc for Condition Overload. With some dual stat mods and Condition Overload and a way to speed up attack.. I'd say that's pretty good and definitely more than a mere cosmetic. Especially the slash part... Anyway, I like Redeemer Prime too! 

[Gnohme]

Lol I probably bullet jump that many times in a ten minute mission. Idk about you, but it's pretty clear to me that for most frames bullet jump is the preferred method of travel, unless you're playing Volt or a frame that can sprint faster than they can bullet jump. Bullet jumping IS exploring haha, I'm not sure I understand the problem here.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Gnohme

[JackHargreav]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Guaranteed slash status proc from Wise Razor, decent status, and free innate elemental damage for additional possible status proc for Condition Overload. With some dual stat mods and Condition Overload and a way to speed up attack.. I'd say that's pretty good and definitely more than a mere cosmetic. Especially the slash part... Anyway, I like Redeemer Prime too! 

Yeah actually I don't use Condition overload. So for me the damage output is vastly different.

[AnsehelmDragon]

This is pretty silly, honestly.

150 bullet jumps is basically handing out a free completion, it's dummy easy. Furthermore, it's a pretty fundamental aspect of how movement in the game works. You can choose to not use it, i guess. I imagine it's a lot more difficult to get around. You could also choose to never use Forma, but it wouldn't benefit you.

There's certainly points to be made about Nightwave, and about time gated content in general. I came back to Warframe from Destiny 2 because I was sick of the heavy time demands. 

 

Its kind of worrying to see similar things cropping up in Warframe now.

[Teljaxx]

39 minutes ago, HellVOps said:

"want to get the absolute maximum rewards out of the season" that's just your/their greed, why sugar coat it?

Then your greed is forcing you to do it. My point is that there is always a reason when someone forced to do something. What that reason is, and whether or not you agree with the reason doesn't matter, its still a reason for someone.

32 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

How many times do I have to tell ppl, that you need 65% of the tasks every weak?

Not if you want the MAXIMUM reward. If you want to get every last bit of the extra Wolf Creds that apparently come after rank 30, you need as much standing as possible. And that means you are forced to do every single challenge, whether you like them or not.

But if you are fine with settling for the bare minimum of success, then sure, skip 35% of the challenges. I won't judge.

[lighthoof]

3 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Then your greed is forcing you to do it. My point is that there is always a reason when someone forced to do something. What that reason is, and whether or not you agree with the reason doesn't matter, its still a reason for someone.

Not if you want the MAXIMUM reward. If you want to get every last bit of the extra Wolf Creds that apparently come after rank 30, you need as much standing as possible. And that means you are forced to do every single challenge, whether you like them or not.

But if you are fine with settling for the bare minimum of success, then sure, skip 35% of the challenges. I won't judge.

No one is forcing anyone to do every challenge, except for themselves

[Teljaxx]

Just now, lighthoof said:

No one is forcing anyone to do every challenge, except for themselves

That's still a reason. And just because you don't find it a valid reason doesn't mean it is any less valid to the person forcing themselves.

This is where addiction can come from. And hasn't there been a whole thing about problems with gaming addiction recently?

[Heichou207]

23 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

That's still a reason. And just because you don't find it a valid reason doesn't mean it is any less valid to the person forcing themselves.

This is where addiction can come from. And hasn't there been a whole thing about problems with gaming addiction recently?

I don't know what you want here. Do you want to completely circumvent any amount of effort so you can get right to the rewards? The standing is a reward for completing these challenges. Do you want DE to specifically remove any challenges you don't find favorable? They're challenges. You do an easy or difficult task to receive a proportionate amount of incentive. This is a staple in video games. Just because you aren't willing to put in the effort to get the rewards you desire doesn't mean it should be stripped down and handed to you specifically. You want the rewards? Play the game, complete challenges. I don't know why you're going on about video game addiction, and I don't know why you're trying to make a statement about it on the forums of a game with quite possibly the most egregious gameplay loop in the industry. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Heichou207

[JackHargreav]

51 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Not if you want the MAXIMUM reward. If you want to get every last bit of the extra Wolf Creds that apparently come after rank 30, you need as much standing as possible. And that means you are forced to do every single challenge, whether you like them or not.

What maximum reward? The maximum reward is the armor. And that you can earn with 65%. And for what reason you need extra wolf cred? The cosmetics? The Nitain? Other than that you can't spend the creds on anything else.

[-AiLuoLi-]

Remember when parkour actually take skills? Pepperidge farm remembers. Now everyone just mindlessly spam the same button over and over again. Why not just put an "Auto Bullet Jump" toggle in the gameplay option since there's no differences anyway. Back then newbies would take the time to be stealthy and enjoy the gorgeous scenery. But now? They only know how to Ctrl+Space like infested hivemind.

#BringBackParkour1.0&Stamina

[Heichou207]

6 minutes ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Remember when parkour actually take skills? Pepperidge farm remembers. Now everyone just mindlessly spam the same button over and over again. Why not just put an "Auto Bullet Jump" toggle in the gameplay option since there's no differences anyway. Back then newbies would take the time to be stealthy and enjoy the gorgeous scenery. But now? They only know how to Ctrl+Space like infested hivemind.

#BringBackParkour1.0&Stamina

Uphill both ways, right gramps? 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Now we complain about bullet jumping?

Its no wonder the devs don't read their forums.

[(PSN)CoreyHavok]

2 hours ago, Azlen said:

Lol wow guys you clearly missed that OP is being sarcastic. That's a vroom way over your heads.

I'd have to consider this naivety. I don't think this is sarcasm.

[Teljaxx]

28 minutes ago, Heichou207 said:

I don't know what you want here. Do you want to completely circumvent any amount of effort so you can get right to the rewards? The standing is a reward for completing these challenges. Do you want DE to specifically remove any challenges you don't find favorable? They're challenges. You do an easy or difficult task to receive a proportionate amount of incentive. This is a staple in video games. Just because you aren't willing to put in the effort to get the rewards you desire doesn't mean it should be stripped down and handed to you specifically. You want the rewards? Play the game, complete challenges. I don't know why you're going on about video game addiction, and I don't know why you're trying to make a statement about it on the forums of a game with quite possibly the most egregious gameplay loop in the industry. 

I am mostly getting hypothetical at this point. I am not really disagreeing with anyone here, I am just trying to make a point. Specifically, that systems like Nightwave can very easily make it feel like you are being forced into playing the game, no matter how you end up justifying it to yourself. That you have to play, not that you want to play. And that this can very easily become a serious problem.

So far, Warframe has been extremely fair with its grind vs reward compared to other games I have played. That's why I have stuck with it for six years. But if more things like Nightwave is the future of Warframe, I really do not want them to go down that path. I have seen plenty of games die because they started doing too many shady, manipulative things like this, and I do not want to see that happen to Warframe.

Also, to reiterate for what feels like the thousandth time: I do not want things for free. Personally, I don't even really care about most of the Nightwave exclusive rewards. What I really want is gameplay that I can enjoy. Not these "challenges" that are either far too boring, or stupidly tedious. That is why I have suggested giving players a pool of challenges to choose from each week, so everyone has a chance to pick ones that fit them best. Then, hopefully Nightwave would be enjoyable for everyone, and we would stop seeing all these threads complaining about every single challenge, every single week.

13 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

What maximum reward? The maximum reward is the armor. And that you can earn with 65%. And for what reason you need extra wolf cred? The cosmetics? The Nitain? Other than that you can't spend the creds on anything else.

The maximum reward is getting absolutely everything you can. Just because you don't need it doesn't mean no one else does. If you still need most of the helmets, plus a bunch of Nitain, plus potatoes, you will need more than the 300 Wolf Creds you get on the way to rank 30 for all that. And since most of this stuff only comes from Nightwave now, its not like you have any other options.

[The_Mustachio]

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

You know that, if you don't like a challenge, you can just simply.... not do them?

Get your logic, and get out of here! We don’t use that here on the forums! 

[Guest]

why do you hate 150 times bullet jump? thats like saying "i dont wanna do 150 push up" 150 bullet jumps is easy task, if you hate bullet jump = you must be "thicc sugar daddy omega chubby tenno" with "350 pounds", just do 150 bullet jumps easy exercise, tenno gotta do some GYM exercise, cmon tenno, you got this.

[JackHargreav]

42 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

The maximum reward is getting absolutely everything you can. Just because you don't need it doesn't mean no one else does. If you still need most of the helmets, plus a bunch of Nitain, plus potatoes, you will need more than the 300 Wolf Creds you get on the way to rank 30 for all that. And since most of this stuff only comes from Nightwave now, its not like you have any other options.

Yeah. But you're the one who decides to farm for those cosmetics. No one is forcing you to get those. It's your decision only.