A better Nyx rework?

[Deathnor]

On 2019-04-07 at 11:29 AM, (PS4)feuerhund99 said:

My most used frame as well.  Absorb needs to become her "tanking" ability in development as it is in practice. 

Remove some of the movement restrictions and remove the damage aspect.  Perhaps make it DR to balance it so she isn't jumping around with cheap channeled invincibility.  Make the augment the old absorb.  That would balance her out and make her 4 more fun.

Nemesis in Dark Sector had a shield and the ability to turn back projectiles.  Moving back towards that, and away from terminator with a damage (???) aspect, would be nice.

i really hope they dont change it to DR in return for some movement. i have a lot of fun in my assimilate build and it would hurt my funnest build a lot. having a invuln deathcube poping out energy orbs every few seconds to keep my 4 up for huge chuncks of time is what the whole build is. sure i have to use a certain melle for movement across a room and i have to be really good with operator movement. but i love it and outside the drunk goggles i find myself with a large periods of the game its a lot of fun for me.

[Deathnor]

On 2019-04-07 at 12:06 PM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I have issues with Nyx, because this frame feels like she doesn't fit any mission properly. "controlling" ennemies is useless because most of the time you have to kill them (defense, extermination, survival, fissure...), then it's also useless in assassination or capture or any bossfight, bringing an AOE radiation does more or less the same (or Oberon garden).

She seems to perform better at excavation, but even then she's outperformed by a Limbo or slow nova

shes really good at open world defenses and at boss fights. her 3s range is more then most frames can get in the defend missions in open worlds which have the enemeis laid out in a much larger area. then if you get a good assimilate build going you can just face tank bosses as they cant deal anywhere near enough damage to kill you while laying down some okish cc for your squishy team mates and being immune to most annoying moves they have. shes my go to for boss fights these days. sure in some of them you really need to have some decent operator use for movement but overall its not terrible.

[Elon-Chan]

oh so it applies only once I see

[Vanilla_nuka]

Yeah because of the power strength requirements Ive had to change alot of stuff in my build, I actually switched her to an umbral style build, because she benefits greatly from vitality and intensify. I agree with assimilate becoming an exilus slot, because that would definitely free up a slot for me, I actually just forma'd in the double dash because I literally dont use an other augment. Id love to be able to use mind freak, but I just cant think of anything I would remove to use it. 

The thing is with nyx asssimilate, you can move around quite easily by taking advantage of your operator, pop absorb, kill the targets, and then void dash to the next group, it makes up for the huge mobility lose. 

14 hours ago, Deathnor said:

i dont feel like breaking a build on her to look at what it was maxed out but i can give a close approximation by potatoeing her regular frame and grabing someone to test real fast.  with 207% duration you get a 16.56 second buff for 3 mods slots and all but narrow minded for duration mods. add in streamline and her arcane helmet for 145% efficancy. this is to pull her cost on her 4 down to 13.75 and a drain of 1.06 per second and 1.06 per 1000 damage you take. next add in umbral intensify and augur secrets for 168% strength or a .04% conversion. add in vitality because well its vitality. now get a player with a really well modded rubico prime or catchmoon to shoot you in order to pump every single energy you can into her buff from damage rather then a lot being wasted as enemies try to charge it up. you know what your entire 225 energy pool nets you? 265%!!! i mean their is no way in hell i can generate another 225 energy in 16 seconds every time the buff needs to be recasted. well maybe if i dropped like 5-6 energy pizzas every 16 seconds. the real kicker is w/o primed flow you cant even generate the 400% but its not like you can generate 225 energy every 16 seconds consistency so is kinda a moot point if u can hit the 400%.  i know in the build i always used power drift for another 15%. my one open slot i tried a narrow minded for 24ish seconds buff that only i could get. not only is getting teammates, even friends none the less a hassle to shoot you a lot every 24 seconds but i could rarely ever get my entire energy pool back up to 225. thats with my death cube with a punch threw full auto vicious spread shooty to drop energy orbs like crazy and my rank 4 arcane energize in the other arcane slot. i mean you have no energy even for the occasion 3 on top of it all.

the buff is just unworkable in every single way. the upkeep you need from teammates because of the duration is atrocious. the fact the scaling % is so low enemies cant proc above 100% in anything resembling a normal time span and that its also so low you cant hit the cap with your entire energy pool is unfathomable to me. i mean this would have to be proly a 30 or 60 second buff so that its upkeep would be minimal and still allow you some energy to cast other abilites.  maybe up the scaling % by like 100% to 300%. at 3%-9% enemies might be able to give you a slight damage buff you and your team every so often in a fairly quick time frame. or maybe some mix somewhere in between as im not sure even with that high a duration or scaling alone that the a build on the it is worth it. however as it stands now its beyond useless.

I actually have a regular nyx for situations like your suggesting, for testing certain builds and such that I cant be bother to forma my nyx prime for, I had a previous absorb build, but I can definitely build another to see how high I can get the conversion rate and efficientcy. Think the highest Ive seen it get was .06, and there have been situations where Ive gotten 200%+ extra gun damage but it doesnt happen often. I agree, absorb is still really bad as an ultimate, the math changes they did to it didnt change anything, and the gun damage buff they gave isnt beneficial to how shes played. I was mostly just suggesting things that could be changed without having to completely rework a skill, I would love if Absorb was changed to actually be useful

Edited April 10, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[Deathnor]

7 hours ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

I agree, absorb is still really bad as an ultimate, the math changes they did to it didnt change anything, and the gun damage buff they gave isnt beneficial to how shes played. I was mostly just suggesting things that could be changed without having to completely rework a skill, I would love if Absorb was changed to actually be useful

no i mean i get it. some low key QOL stuff that would be easy to do overall. i just dont think the damage being useable in her 4 really does anything. my point of infinite 4 with the assimilate augment can be a problem id think. or you come to the problem of it only last a pathetic amount of time while in your 4. either way its to short to matter or its a permanent extra hornet strike and magnum force and then some more extra damage just because.

in terms of the gun damage buff. i mean in theory im more then fine with what i think was the design decision made. it seems to me they moved her more into a buff/debuff role alongside her CC. to me the idea is sound. the execution is just pretty far off on the buff side of things. like unuseable off. if i cant make it work in a dedicated build to just that part of the ability its relevance in any just general situation worthless. hate to sound like a broken record but if i cant trigger the buff, the enemies cant trigger very high in under 30 seconds, and my friends im running with are pissing and moaning about having to shoot 5 or 6 clips of some of the highest burst weapons in the game per minute then something is off.

again just my thoughts on the matter.

[Vanilla_nuka]

Ok so, I just now read that Nyxs 2 is now spammable, no longer are the days of holding the button and waiting, and it seems its even targetable now!

Ive been asking for this change for a long time, Im super excited about it

 

Edit: didnt see the patch notes from wednesday. actually just read them, but this is awesome, changed the title 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka
Changed the title, wasnt sure if it was intended or not

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Should really read the patch notes.

It is intended.

[Vanilla_nuka]

I know, I just changed everything. I dont have the ability to read everything the day that it drops. Just wanted to share my excitement :🤷‍♂️

[Aeon94]

Yes it is intended , DE made it spammable. No more hold button function. \o/

[XenMaster]

Still limited to 6 bolts though. Although energy is expensive if not cared enough.

[bubbabenali]

Oh boy, thanks for the info now I can use her again.

Yes the change of her 2nd abilities recast mechanic was that bad for me... 

[Sloan441]

7 hours ago, XenMaster said:

Still limited to 6 bolts though. Although energy is expensive if not cared enough.

It was a much needed adjustment. Very much a net positive. 

Now, there's only two other abilities that need serious attention and the matter of competing stats. 

Progress, one step at a time. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I'm looking forward to this update on consoles. 

I am at least more pleased with her 1 (as far as first abilities go, not regarding the A.I.) since it works well enough with Psychic Bolts. Her unaugmented 4 is still very broken and needs work. Immediately after its update i was able to test a high strength build in a +Nyx Arbitration and still couldn't do more than scratch most enemies and still end up drained and wasting time. They should remove the increased drain, make the damage work on any target that added to absorb regardless of distance, and allow us to hold the button to spend energy to increase the damage rate before detonating. 

[XenMaster]

15 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

It was a much needed adjustment. Very much a net positive. 

Now, there's only two other abilities that need serious attention and the matter of competing stats. 

Progress, one step at a time. 

Psychic Bolts should also increase damage taken by 300% for Mind Control and Chaos.

with added rework, it should command Mind Control to attack the debuffed targets.

[Xzorn]

I would still take her old Bolts over current without a flinch.

Their entire thought process on Nyx is backwards. They take out her CC which is very useful past Sorties and replace it with armor strip which isn't needed for Sorties or lower content. Her old Bolts was good for armor or unarmored. Run CPx4 and you might as well not cast it.

Literally everything the ability does outside that Armor strip the previous version did better. It's just dumb.

[ArcKnight9202]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I would still take her old Bolts over current without a flinch.

Their entire thought process on Nyx is backwards. They take out her CC which is very useful past Sorties and replace it with armor strip which isn't needed for Sorties or lower content. Her old Bolts was good for armor or unarmored. Run CPx4 and you might as well not cast it.

Literally everything the ability does outside that Armor strip the previous version did better. It's just dumb.

I agree. While this is a nice improvement, the skill itself is horrible. The better your gear, the less you need to use it. A sniper rifle and a mod set will eat through any sortie level boss just fine. I just can't find a use for this at all. Shattering Impact is just better and it's permanent. Buffing the skill eats into her other abilities, too.

I am really hoping to see some improvements to Nyx in their revisit to crowd control frames. I am not optimistic but it can't hurt since I already abandoned the frame.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Run CPx4 and you might as well not cast it.

Eh, I don't run premade squads for everything, and there are many cases of stuff like 3x energy siphon in an enhanced armor sortie.  I think armor stripping abilities are still useful.

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Eh, I don't run premade squads for everything, and there are many cases of stuff like 3x energy siphon in an enhanced armor sortie.  I think armor stripping abilities are still useful.

 

It's just an extreme example to emphasis that Armor strip isn't the only thing to sell an ability, an augment maybe.

In the level ranges where CC isn't that useful all it really does is influence the weapons you'd use. I used weapons like Quanta V, Synapse and other non IPS weapons with Nyx anyways because Impact procs would break the stun on her Pacifying Bolts. Still does. Normally I don't just consider an ability stand alone like that but DE has made it that way. It used to layer into her kit better and was used in conjunction with Chaos. Now it has almost nothing to do with the rest of her kit.

Like why not have it mark targets for MC? This is simple stuff; they're just not putting much effort into this IMO.

[Kontrollo]

Well, at least her 2 and its augment are usable again, and not just a dead skill you want to mod around as much as possible. I'll take it.

 

I'm still not too happy with how all of this went down. Maybe in a few years again, I guess?

[XenMaster]

In other words, Venari command.

 

Irregular of AI pathing is the core problem for Nyx and Revenant and our pets and robotic moa.

 

To give a simple mechanic which require new pathing to the AIs,

 

Whenever the Psychic Bolts hit enemy including the boss type :

 

1. Mind Control and Chaos influenced enemies within 10meter (cannot be increased by Range stat) will force them to attack the debuffed targets until the debuff is run out

 

2. Increase the damage of Mind Control and Chaos influenced that are commanded by 500% for the whole of duration (bonus damage will be removed when all debuffed targets are killed/run out of duration)

 

3. During command, Mind Control and Chaos influenced enemies will ignore any enemies nearby and attack the prioritized targets. All radiation proc and stun mechanic will ignore the effects. Possibly to prevent glitchy AIs.

 

*Similar to Abnormal Titan in Attack on Titan*

 

[EinheriarJudith]

1. Venari's command system is pretty bad so ill take a pass on using it.

2. they could do it how the hunter mods work. and just have the mind controlled NPC prioritize enemies marked with bolts.

3. mind control does not need a damage increase whatsoever. use the augment, or a stronger weapon, or both.

Because of the nature of confuse it makes no sense to force target for enemies under the effect of confuse. enemies not under the effect of confuse should force target in radius around mind controlled NPC.

Bosses should be immune to psychic bolts just on the fact that it turns defenses off. the whole point of a boss fight is for it to be challenging, not made trivial with the press of a button.