Low drop chances on essential resources needs to stop.

[Mrevasivepants]

Hello everyone, 

Usually I have the tendency of writing Warframe posts and suggestions with one hand and heavily drinking with the other in order to get further frustraded towards the game, but this time I'll keep it polite.

 

This has been a reocurring issue for a long time now and it saddens me to see that it still presists. Now I know what you're probably thinking, you're one of those people that say "Haha I got everything in a row, you just haven't played the game enough/are just unlucky." Granted the latter, but I've been playing the game since 2013(?) and back then it was bad, but it was never as bad as this.

For reference, back then the "bad" was pretty much the cicero event and those damned plants, it wasn't essential to progress, but it would boost quite nicely.

Now? The best example I can give are the Toroids. I was finishing up getting baruuk's parts for me to craft them before going to sleep at 10pm when to my surprise I was missing 2 sola toroids. So i decided to go the Temple of Profit and farm them. It is now nearly midnight as I write this post and I got 0 toroids. I had enough with the game and decided to just post this before I quit the game for good and then head to sleep.

1% chance of a toroid in a specific location is a joke. Plain and simple. It's an essential resource to:

- Level up Vox Solaris
- Craft better Amps 

- Get Warframe parts.

 

My biggest problem wasn't just that, it was because I was playing solo even with alert lv 4 enemies were not spawning, at all.

This is pretty much the same problem with the quills and to level up with them in order to get a better amp. The fastest way is doing eidolons for sure, but how? You need to use a mote amp first and start with vomalysts which will take you forever to rank up, then head for eidolons in which you pray you get a good team to carry you and that they don't drop you just because you bring nothing to the table.

Everyone complains that you need Solaris United lv 5 before you can do Heist phases in order to get gyromags to rank up with vox solaris so that THEN you can actually purchase the systems.

Up until nightwave, Nitain Extract were the same problem. You see where I'm getting at?

DE keeps introducing new materials and some of those materials are common, thankfully. However the minority of the materials that happen to be rare are also essential. I get it that you're trying to keep the player going with the grind, but this is just too much on several levels. I can't introduce this game to my friends without giving them the heads up seven up that this has "World of Warcraft" levels of grinding.

 

Boost the drop chances, make them more common by spreading them across more enemies, spread the rewards more widely, anything, just make it less tedious.

 

Thank you for reading, and have a good night.

[Test-995]

Well, 1% for "enemy drop" is okay, since you can kill them at a rate of 10/sec.

But 10% per mission is totally not okay, especially when that you have to do it 3 times.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I honestly do not understand how some people cannot get a single toroid in 2 hours. You people must be doing something wrong, I swear. With Eidolons you can just join the public matchmaking (yes, such thing exists for eidolons), and farm some rep through that. If you are handicapping yourself by playing solo on purpose, that's your own fault really.

The biggest problem I personally have are the rep caps. I have enough toroids and sentient cores for the next year to cap my standing daily, but have no way of using them quickly.

[(XBOX)Sir Dwar]

29 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I honestly do not understand how some people cannot get a single toroid in 2 hours. You people must be doing something wrong, I swear. With Eidolons you can just join the public matchmaking (yes, such thing exists for eidolons), and farm some rep through that.

I can't be the only one who was uncomfortable with the idea of making a PUG carry me through an eidilon fight and had to kill 90+ vomvalysts. I really wish the mote amp was less terrible. Or there was an intermediate eidilon who you could fight solo to learn the basics and get the rep to craft the 1-1-1 amp you need to not be useless against eidilon shields.

Edited April 14, 2019 by (XB1)Sir Dwar

[LSG501]

45 minutes ago, Mrevasivepants said:

snip

I agree about toroids having low drop chances but they also seem to have buggy drop tables imo, sometimes you can go in and get them really quickly, other times they're non existent. 

Never really had an issue with nitain but then I was doing them every time I saw one because I knew they were 'rare'....

I do have an issue, like many others, when DE decides it's a 'good idea' to stick something at under 5% that requires you to do the same monotonous mission over and over, perfect example is braton/lato vandal or even the new ephemera from exploiter orb fight.  Or they knock out something like the wolf of saturn six where they put low drop chance behind an even lower spawn chance....

Mining is my biggest 'pet peeve' when it comes to resources, you have zero control over getting the right resource so you end up getting loads of unnecessary ores that are not the one you actually need, I always seem to struggle to get pyrol on PoE for example, even though it's not a rare ore.

I'm also not a fan of restricting access to things behind 'time walls' such as night/day or warm/cold on open worlds.

[Test-995]

58 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I do have an issue, like many others, when DE decides it's a 'good idea' to stick something at under 5% that requires you to do the same monotonous mission over and over, perfect example is braton/lato vandal or even the new ephemera from exploiter orb fight.  Or they knock out something like the wolf of saturn six where they put low drop chance behind an even lower spawn chance....

While ephemera is being worst grind ever, lato/braton is actually not that bad... at least it is tradable and something like energize, can works as another way to farm plat.

Wolf? i don't know about that one, his hammer is tradable yet he is not even farmable...

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Test-995

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The biggest problem I personally have are the rep caps. I have enough toroids and sentient cores for the next year to cap my standing daily, but have no way of using them quickly.

With the trend of handing everyone all the resources for open world, the time gated rep caps are the only thing preventing you from finishing Orb Vallis or Plains of Eidolon in under 2 weeks as a whole. I agree though, I wish I could use my sentient cores reasonably fast. I know I have done more Eidolons than the average player, but...

That is 31,876,000 Quills standing which will take me just over 1138 days to use, or another 3+ years, assuming I don't miss a single day starting now.

I really haven't seen anything wrong with recent resources, and if anything, they are too easy to get.

That is a single Tusk Thumper BEFORE the cool-down was halved and made even easier.

Here is a gif I found from when I did the Exploiter Orb at first:

Sure, there may be 3 or 4 resources that are annoying to farm such as Toroids and Nitain Extract, but as a whole, resource gains have not gotten worse, and essential resources are pretty fine in terms of drops.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Voltage

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Small toroids are long to get, either you can try to farm specific location, or you may do over and over again the first phases of profit taker. None is rewarding enough tbh, even with hydroid pfilfering I barely get 1 per 10 min (solo), and after 20min the nullifier spam make is worthless.

The fact that you have to text chat to find people to go farming is a waste of time too.

IMHO, the first phases of profit taker should reward 1 toroid upon completion (+1 random loot), and they should add some "survival" mode in the locations in the vallis so that you may farm toroids (I think of something similar to survival in Uranus to get Tellurium).

[Basalto]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

With the trend of handing everyone all the resources for open world, the time gated rep caps are the only thing preventing you from finishing Orb Vallis or Plains of Eidolon in under 2 weeks as a whole.

This reminds me: aren't syndicates not tying reputation items to the daily standing cap? I'm pretty sure I can use and benefit from my quittances, seeds and marks even when the game claims I have zero daily standing left, since it apparently treats the standing from the items as an extra or something.

[Drasiel]

The toroid drop rate is frustrating I 100% agree. I'm also going to offer some suggestions for farming them and ranking up in vox solaris in case you don't know about some things.

• The high enemy level and incoming damage can be a problem for the farming frames. Instead, bring a Chesa Kubrow they have a mini desecrate and with link armour/health and pack master on a tanky frame they are very very hard to kill.
• Sometimes the enemies spawns are stupid. If no one is spawning outside the locations go into them. If no one is spawning inside enter and leave fortuna because something broke.

• You don't need any rank with vox solaris to participate in the orb heists you just need to be old mate (max) rank with Solaris United. Clearing the orb heist missions prior to profit taker gets you a free gravimag to apply to an archgun of your choice. Profit taker drops a toroid worth 6k standing with vox solaris.

[Mrevasivepants]

7 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Well, 1% for "enemy drop" is okay, since you can kill them at a rate of 10/sec.

But 10% per mission is totally not okay, especially when that you have to do it 3 times.

As I stated however, my problem weren't just the fact that they were not dropping as I stated, it was that they were not spawning in the first place, so killing them at a rate of 10/sec was quite a hard thing to achieve when they wouldn't spawn.
 

7 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I honestly do not understand how some people cannot get a single toroid in 2 hours. You people must be doing something wrong, I swear. With Eidolons you can just join the public matchmaking (yes, such thing exists for eidolons), and farm some rep through that. If you are handicapping yourself by playing solo on purpose, that's your own fault really.

The biggest problem I personally have are the rep caps. I have enough toroids and sentient cores for the next year to cap my standing daily, but have no way of using them quickly.

And to the gentleman saying that I'm handicapping myself by playing solo, explain me really where am I going to find people to farm toroids with me? Recruit chat? tried that for 1 hour and only 1 person joined only for him to get bored and left too. Friends? All of my friends at 10pm were already asleep or, again, weren't up to do that bullocks and actually have fun.

You also clearly didn't read my post. Yes I know public eidolon hunting is a thing, but as I stated do you really like to leech on other people's effort that reached there in the first place? I'm not going to make assumptions and personally attack you as I didn't had my 8:30 whiskey of the morning.

[AshenHaze]

7 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I honestly do not understand how some people cannot get a single toroid in 2 hours.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Desire Sensor

Originally it was called the "Runescape Desire Detector".

[Mrevasivepants]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

The toroid drop rate is frustrating I 100% agree. I'm also going to offer some suggestions for farming them and ranking up in vox solaris in case you don't know about some things.

• The high enemy level and incoming damage can be a problem for the farming frames. Instead, bring a Chesa Kubrow they have a mini desecrate and with link armour/health and pack master on a tanky frame they are very very hard to kill.
• Sometimes the enemies spawns are stupid. If no one is spawning outside the locations go into them. If no one is spawning inside enter and leave fortuna because something broke.

• You don't need any rank with vox solaris to participate in the orb heists you just need to be old mate (max) rank with Solaris United. Clearing the orb heist missions prior to profit taker gets you a free gravimag to apply to an archgun of your choice. Profit taker drops a toroid worth 6k standing with vox solaris.

Thank youf or your input, however:

1. While I do appreciate the kubrow tip, I unfortunately can not use any kubrow, infact I find myself having a bad time just mastery folding the animals. 
The reason as to why is.. well quite stupid but it just stuck with me. My dog died years ago and I think I got traumatized by it. I know this is just a videogame and they come back even if they died (Though they didn't in the first month of their release, which was quite sad.) but ever since I was pretty much against using dogs in fighting, be it IRL or ingame, again I realize how stupid it sounds.

2. Yeah I figured that out eventually, but while I'm on the way to fortuna to fix a broken spawn it gives me ample time to just think about closing the game instead play something else until I get less annoyed at warframe... eventually.

3. 

Quote

Everyone complains that you need Solaris United lv 5 before you can do Heist phases in order to get gyromags to rank up with vox solaris so that THEN you can actually purchase the systems

I did say Solaris United, not Vox Solaris.

[Basalto]

4 minutes ago, AshenHaze said:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Desire Sensor

Originally it was called the "Runescape Desire Detector".

I never had a name for it, but always told people about such a thing. I would ask them what they were farming, and then tell them to farm something else on the same drop table, so they'd be able to trick the gods of chaos and get the item they actually wanted by wanting the item they didn't want. There's an awful lot of cosmic gymnastics involved in that kind of stuff.

[Mrevasivepants]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

With the trend of handing everyone all the resources for open world, the time gated rep caps are the only thing preventing you from finishing Orb Vallis or Plains of Eidolon in under 2 weeks as a whole. I agree though, I wish I could use my sentient cores reasonably fast. I know I have done more Eidolons than the average player, but...

That is 31,876,000 Quills standing which will take me just over 1138 days to use, or another 3+ years, assuming I don't miss a single day starting now.

I really haven't seen anything wrong with recent resources, and if anything, they are too easy to get.

That is a single Tusk Thumper BEFORE the cool-down was halved and made even easier.

Here is a gif I found from when I did the Exploiter Orb at first:

Sure, there may be 3 or 4 resources that are annoying to farm such as Toroids and Nitain Extract, but as a whole, resource gains have not gotten worse, and essential resources are pretty fine in terms of drops.

I appreciate your input.

The tusk was a nice touch, I never had problems in mining. I do have the reflexes that would make a grandma feel good about themselves, but I'd get my fair share of nyth and zodian and what not when I'd go out in my mining spree. Same for fishes.

As I said though, my biggest pet peeve is mostly the toroids farming to CRAFT items and rank up for the sacrifice, not actually to rank up with points. If I want to rank up with vox solaris I just go do 1/2 exploiter orbs fight and get it over with.
 

Nice gif btw, 8 orb fights with resource booster I'm guessing?

[Mrevasivepants]

8 minutes ago, AshenHaze said:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Desire Sensor

Originally it was called the "Runescape Desire Detector".

Boy do I remember that, good old runescape days indeed.

2 minutes ago, Basalto said:

I never had a name for it, but always told people about such a thing. I would ask them what they were farming, and then tell them to farm something else on the same drop table, so they'd be able to trick the gods of chaos and get the item they actually wanted by wanting the item they didn't want. There's an awful lot of cosmic gymnastics involved in that kind of stuff.

I'm very aware of such concept, its the same for the saying that the water doesn't boil when you stare at it. Of course it will it just takes a painful amount of time until it does unless you're doing something else, where your concept of time flies and things are done/adquired faster.

I'm fully aware of that and how percentage works as well, as the gentleman above stated that he found it weird that sometimes he gets a toroid from the first kill and then nothing else from the remainder of the fight. That's just how probability works.

I even did it eventually when I was farming Orokin Cells, couldn't find the bloody things until I decided to do other stuff in the planet that I had to do at a time and when I came to realize I had over 100 orokin cells.

THE PROBLEM is that, as I said, different kind of toroids only spawn in different kind of locations, be at i.e Spaceport by killing enemies or at the numerous caves in which they spawn quite arbitrarily. Sure you can also do the heist phases, but that takes just as long if not more.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, Mrevasivepants said:

And to the gentleman saying that I'm handicapping myself by playing solo, explain me really where am I going to find people to farm toroids with me? Recruit chat? tried that for 1 hour and only 1 person joined only for him to get bored and left too. Friends? All of my friends at 10pm were already asleep or, again, weren't up to do that bullocks and actually have fun.

Timezones my man, timezones. It isn't 10 pm all around the world. I've also managed to farm all my Toroids solo. And I still swear that you must be doing something wrong because everyone else is getting 60 per hour.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

--

I wish I could have finished PoE and Fortuna in a week. It's the same old missions types disguised with new graphics and characters. Gameplay-wise they offer no new content apart from the boss fights.

[Steel_Rook]

10 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Well, 1% for "enemy drop" is okay, since you can kill them at a rate of 10/sec.

Which would be fine if they would spawn at that rate. I have fond memories of sitting at "4 stars" of alert with nobody spawning anywhere nearby for minutes at a time until we got bored and moved onto another area... Which meant having to restart the alert. This is one of the fundamental paradoxes of Warframe. So much of the game's content is predicated on killing enemies quickly, and yet the spawning and pathing systems remain massively error-prone and unreliable. It's ridiculous how much of this game comes down to meta-gaming nonsense like trying to accommodate the enemies so we have enough of them to fight. I have such fond memories of doing Excavation on Earth and not seeing a single battery in 15 minutes...

 

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Timezones my man, timezones. It isn't 10 pm all around the world. I've also managed to farm all my Toroids solo. And I still swear that you must be doing something wrong because everyone else is getting 60 per hour. 

To get that number, you need a very specific team composition. Like so much else in this game, it's a gear check that people have managed to convince themselves is some example of pride and accomplishment.

[Mrevasivepants]

2 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Timezones my man, timezones. It isn't 10 pm all around the world. I've also managed to farm all my Toroids solo. And I still swear that you must be doing something wrong because everyone else is getting 60 per hour.

And as I said, you must be the minority that has his hands full of them and immedietally assume that everyone else should be getting them as well at the same rate as you. Also, 60 per hour soloing? I really don't wanna be rude, because I have the sick sense you're just trolling me, so please if you want to make fun of me just go somewhere else.
 

Here you go btw, almost 20 minute run now that I did in the morning (and no, no one wanted to join as well in the recruit chat.)

It's just really, stupid bad luck and unreliable probabilities.

[IceFire909]

3 hours ago, Mrevasivepants said:

And to the gentleman saying that I'm handicapping myself by playing solo, explain me really where am I going to find people to farm toroids with me? Recruit chat? tried that for 1 hour and only 1 person joined only for him to get bored and left too. Friends? All of my friends at 10pm were already asleep or, again, weren't up to do that bullocks and actually have fun.

So you know how there's the 4 orb heist missions where people only really run PT-2 because its fast?

Well my technique for farming Toroids (the orange ones at least) is just chilling outside killing everything while other people run the mission. easily get a couple each run.

[Mrevasivepants]

3 minutes ago, IceFire909 said:

So you know how there's the 4 orb heist missions where people only really run PT-2 because its fast?

Well my technique for farming Toroids (the orange ones at least) is just chilling outside killing everything while other people run the mission. easily get a couple each run.

Fast but unreliable as well, you do know toroids aren't the only thing that are rewarded in it right? And often you'll get the toroid you don't need.

Also I don't use that technique because I'm not someone who lets everyone else do the dirty work while you go out, do something else entirely, and still get the prize due to someone else's work.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Mrevasivepants

[IceFire909]

1 minute ago, Mrevasivepants said:

Fast but unreliable as well, you do know toroids aren't the only thing that are rewarded in it right? And often you'll get the toroid you don't need.

Also I don't use that technique because I'm not someone who lets everyone else do the dirty work while you go out, do something else entirely, and still get the prize due to someone else's work.

the base you fight at drops the orange toroids. im not talking about mission rewards, im talking about killing things for one of the toroids.

the other 2 you're SOL sure, but orange ones are easy to collect. And waiting outside to kill the Ambulas is an important part of speeding through the mission anyway. you're not making someone else do all the work unless you suck ass at killing stuff

Edited April 15, 2019 by IceFire909

[Mrevasivepants]

1 minute ago, IceFire909 said:

the base you fight at drops the orange toroids. im not talking about mission rewards, im talking about killing things for one of the toroids.

the other 2 you're SOL sure, but orange ones are easy to collect. And waiting outside to kill the Ambulas is an important part of speeding through the mission anyway. you're not making someone else do all the work unless you suck ass at killing stuff

In that regard then you're right, my apologies. But that's the orange toroids exclusively. the ones you'll be finding yourself farming the most (I believe) are the Sola toroids because of the x27 amp, in which the 7 requires 5 sola toroids. I'm planning on leveling up every prism with the x27 or the x77, and that is just a wrench to the kneecaps to farm.

[IceFire909]

1 minute ago, Mrevasivepants said:

In that regard then you're right, my apologies. But that's the orange toroids exclusively. the ones you'll be finding yourself farming the most (I believe) are the Sola toroids because of the x27 amp, in which the 7 requires 5 sola toroids. I'm planning on leveling up every prism with the x27 or the x77, and that is just a wrench to the kneecaps to farm.

What would be great is if they did with toroids what they did with the gravimag modules. let you purchase the toroids from little duck. that way you can farm exploiter/profit taker to buy the lesser toroids.

or a blueprint to break down the big boy toroids to the little trio