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Jiminez_Burial

Does Warframe have an 'end of life' plan?

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Are you attempting to sell a video game life insurance? 

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Can we wait till we can reach MR 30 before making these kind of threads? 

Warframe is not dying anytime soon especially since the triple A game industry is constantly commiting seppuku right now!

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15 hours ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Given that DE have talked about providing an offline option for Nintendo Switch since it's a mobile platform.

They won't end up doing it.  This has seriously bad implications.  Being playable offline therefore means that it would need client side saving... all 3 major console and PC can currently alter and edit client side saves, there are programs for doing it - hence why online games tend to use server side.  If they end up allowing NSW to play offline, it's going to end up infested with modded profiles of people who just hex edit their saves for resources, weapons, forma etc.  Not to mention Rivens would then be in the players control, allowing them to customize the stats to the fullest... which is where the real danger starts, as then hex editors can effectively create lolgodmode weapon rivens.  All would be possible if on the user end - to that merit, I don't think they will actually go through with it.  It's too much of a risk to the overall integrity of the game experience for everybody else.  Once they realize that, it won't happen.

This is a good idea IF and WHEN the servers go down - but ONLY then.  If they do it anytime soon, they will effectively kill WF on Switch and turn it into the Wild West where it's like GTA and people are running around with a bunch of hacked gear and 9999999 credits, 1000x of every prime part they can saturate the game with, etc.

WF offline is not possible until WF online is done.   

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That was a really good video. But no. I don’t think Warframe has an end of life plan. The best we can hope for is for it to last as long as possible, hopefully forever. Thankfully warframe is doing pretty well unlike some other “games as a service” games.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Old cellular and some satellite phone services are another example - people paid both monthly fees AND purchased the hardware - then the company or service ceases and thats that.

That's quite a good analogy. I really stand behind what Ross is saying but I'm afraid he missed the point a bit and "Games as a Service" are more like "Games with a Service". Like cell phones technically working on their own, but needing a service provider to fully function.

 

10 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

6. DURATION OF ONLINE SERVICES

The Software is an online game that must be played over the Internet through the Service as provided by Digital Extremes. You understand and agree that the Service is provided by Digital Extremes at its discretion and may be terminated or otherwise discontinued by DE at any time for any reason or no reason.

Also the TOS is seperating the software (the actual game) from the provided service. Like the cell phone they are two different products likely sold by the same company. So Ross can prove that games are a product all he want but I'm afraid that's not going to preserve them. Yes, the game is a product with all your consumer rights attached to it, but the service needed to fully use the product is not.

So if this stuff really goes to court there is a ton of wiggle room for the companies to talk their way out of their responsibilities, because to my knowledge there are lots of consumer rights regarding goods (at least in the EU) but none of those guarentee an attached service to be provided for the entire lifetime of the good, because technically it's a different product.

[EDIT] At 50:25 he says in his video that customers are not entitled to the server software (the service) but to a working product and concludes that Games as a Service are only considered as "working" if the service/ server is available. Well... yeah, thats a logical conclusion, but sadly law isn't working like that. There need to be rights present or created to support this conclusion or else company lawers will just bluff themselves out. Like he says at 27:00. There is evidence that this practice (programmed obsolescence) might be illegal, but there is no law or case directly saying so. At the moment it's a legal grey zone. Hmm... the topic really needs more legal attention to sort things out for computer games.

Also thx for adding the video below, zoffmode.

Oh, and to contribute to the topic. I don't think DE has any plans yet. The game is flourishing for years now, but it's not wrong to think about it. I put too much time and money into the game to accept a simple "kthxbye" as "End of Life" plan. Sure would hurt possible costumer relationships in the future.

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6 minutes ago, Zeranov said:

That's quite a good analogy. I really stand behind what Ross is saying but I'm afraid he missed the point a bit and "Games as a Service" are more like "Games with a Service". Like cell phones technically working on their own, but needing a service provider to fully function.

Also the TOS is seperating the software (the actual game) from the provided service. Like the cell phone they are two different products likely sold by the same company. So Ross can prove that games are a product all he want but I'm afraid that's not going to preserve them. Yes, the game is a product with all your consumer rights attached to it, but the service needed to fully use the product is not.

So if this stuff really goes to court there is a ton of wiggle room for the companies to talk their way out of every responsibility, because to my knowledge there are lots of consumer rights regarding goods (at least in the EU) but none of those guarentee an attached service to be provided for the entire lifetime of the good, because technically it's a different product.

 

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You know, I've often wondered about this myself. Warframe seems like the type of game that could potentially be reconfigured to play exclusively offline since most of the content can already be played solo. That's something that would take quite a bit of work, though. So much so that I'm not sure any dev team would be willing to do so. If an online game is nearing its termination then odds are the team has more pressing matters to attend to. (Warframe 2, anyone?)

I will say I hope something like that does happen when the game's run its course. It'd suck if something as unique as Warframe just fades away into the void. But we won't really hear any word on that for at least five more years if the playerbase remains as healthy as it has been.

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10 hours ago, War said:

Hey chief, just thought I’d chime in here, due to some really heavy misinformation I’m seeing from this content creator.

Every part of the transcript you’re citing is completely wrong. The Lexmark Int’l case was a case debating 35 U. S. C. §154, which implicitly deals with patents and was a case litigated over the rights to a printer toner cartridge design, which had nothing to do with video games as a service nor access to them (videogames).

Furthermore, Digital Extremes is a company based in and traded in Canada, which means this Supreme Court case cannot be used as neither precedent nor part of any sort of argument against them.

Further still, opinion has no basis in certain aspects of digital access law - the language in their End User License Agreement is to protect themselves from civil liability in the advent that a company has to file for bankruptcy and a bunch of brainlets (that content creator, et al.) attempt to sue them, making an already complicated process that can lead to a game shutdown much worse.

- Don’t believe every opinion (yes, opinion) you see on Youtube.

Congratulations on failing to identify the context of that example.

Your comment has been taken note of.

Please return to the hole you crawled out of.

Thanks.

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Nah they're just gonna turn off the servers and laugh about how much money they made over the years and legally there's nothing you could do if they did.

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If it ever went offline how would all the Hydron leeches survive?

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19 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Nah they're just gonna turn off the servers and laugh about how much money they made over the years and legally there's nothing you could do if they did.

Yeah, that's kinda the whole point of the video, man.

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6 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Yeah, that's kinda the whole point of the video, man.

Sorry I'll use sarcasm quotes next time. Realistically it could happen, will it? Probably not. There are much easier ways to kill a game without staining your name for any future projects. It's just not good business.

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I don’t think Warframe will struggle anytime soon in revenue and player base, it’s stupid to think DE would want to end support for a game that it’s still growing.

Look at Team Fortress 2, that game is almost 10 years old but a lot of people still playing and spend money on it. Then we have Minecraft, the developers are committed to make it a 100 year game and a lot of people still playing it (myself included, but I am not playing as much). Also, WoW is still relevant.

If somehow DE ends game support in the far future, I would think either DE sell the IP to another company, let the community manage it, or just simply abandon it for good.

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No proper end game or rewards for endless runs for more than 6years!! I don't think that's good for the game not when many vets are leaving and I left the game for good just logs in and logs out. If devs don't take this seriously, then I don't see any future for this game.

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2 hours ago, Big_Bad_Idiot said:

Congratulations on failing to identify the context of that example.

Your comment has been taken note of.

Please return to the hole you crawled out of.

Thanks.

Care to elaborate? If anything, their comment is providing context that the video missed.

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7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Care to elaborate? If anything, their comment is providing context that the video missed.

Don't listen to him @Corvid , must be another of those troll or hate accounts. 

Anyways, given the current popularity of warframe. I would say warframe could last more than 20 years (just like WoW). 

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1 hour ago, phanindra97 said:

No proper end game or rewards for endless runs for more than 6years!! I don't think that's good for the game not when many vets are leaving and I left the game for good just logs in and logs out. If devs don't take this seriously, then I don't see any future for this game.

Players leaving isn't a problem as long as the influx of new players is enough to replace them.

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2 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Sorry I'll use sarcasm quotes next time. Realistically it could happen, will it? Probably not. There are much easier ways to kill a game without staining your name for any future projects. It's just not good business.

Whoops! Sorry. I legit didn't know that you were being sarcastic. I kinda just thought it was cynicism. Fair enough!

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1 minute ago, Ryusuta said:

Whoops! Sorry. I legit didn't know that you were being sarcastic. I kinda just thought it was cynicism. Fair enough!

Haha all good. I imagine if they ever did want to stop making warframe they'd simply stop adding updates, encouraging players to stop and then when player numbers plummet, announce the game has died later on and that they are "regrettably" shutting down so they can go focus on a new project without staining their reputation.

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3 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Don't listen to him @Corvid , must be another of those troll or hate accounts.

Just saying this without giving more of a reason actually makes you look more like the troll. He has provided information. Dismissing it out of hand like you have makes it look as though you are being intellectually dishonest.

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On 2019-04-28 at 8:32 AM, Zilchy said:

Nah they're just gonna turn off the servers and laugh about how much money they made over the years and legally there's nothing you could do if they did.

Well at some point, probably several years from now, the game is going to reach a point where its no longer economically viable to keep the servers going and this is exactly what is going to happen.

Though I'd like to think DE would at least give us fair warning if / when this happens. Maybe host a farewell stream or something.

Its funny when people try to bring up legal cases and argue whether EULAs comply with laws in various countries. I've seen these sort of posts in other game forums. The usual response to this is, "try taking the devs to court if you feel its not fair...see what happens...:wink:

 

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59 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well at some point, probably several years from now, the game is going to reach a point where its no longer economically viable to keep the servers going and this is exactly what is going to happen.

Though I'd like to think DE would at least give us fair warning if / when this happens. Maybe host a farewell stream or something.

Its funny when people try to bring up legal cases and argue whether EULAs comply with laws in various countries. I've seen these sort of posts in other game forums. The usual response to this is, "try taking the devs to court if you feel its not fair...see what happens...:wink:

Well, the idea behind the video is to force these companies to have end of life plan and basically have to pass on the torch to players once support is over. But yeah, without any action beforehand, that's what will happen to most games.

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On 2019-04-28 at 2:31 AM, Big_Bad_Idiot said:

Congratulations on failing to identify the context of that example.

Your comment has been taken note of.

Please return to the hole you crawled out of.

Thanks.

I ended up looking at the timestamp and listening to a few minutes before and after. Even given ‘context’, what I typed is accurate.

You’ve typed nothing constructive so uh.. Thanks? Username checks out? Idk

Settle down, okay?

Edit: But I really do like your display name, it’s funny. Respect.

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