It's been a good partnership...But...

[Nash]

4 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

It's simple.

If china invades this game, I'm out.

Truth

 

[-Amaterasu-]

I don't know exactly what you're expecting DE to do here OP but DE doesn't even own DE anymore, they're basically just a name at this point.

They've been sold for a while now so I can guarantee you there is a 0% chance it ever becomes its own company that manages to buy back the Warframe IP, it's too late for that.

That said I haven't noticed any real changes that suggest their new parent company is really pressuring them to do anything negative to the game so I'm not really worried about any of this; Warframe won't leave Steam because Tennogen, I'm sure they also have some sort of deal with Steam that lets them keep more than 70% of their income since as far as I'm aware that 30% cut is negotiable for games that do well. Nothing Epic can offer will be appealing enough, Steam is probably able to compete just fine combined with its community features and this game doesn't use Unreal Engine so Epic has nothing to bargain with.

Even if they somehow did manage to get Warframe off of steam (which they won't) there's still a stand alone launcher which should work just fine.

[Genesix6]

4 hours ago, MagPrime said:

They bought 51% of it, why would they invade the other 49%?

Remember what Kaiba when he was kid said?

"If you have more card than your oponents, then you have won the game"

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Well this is an old topic.

Does anyone go do any reasearch on this chinese company ever? Or do people hear china and go "tHe GaMe Is GoNnA DiE, De SoLd ThEiR iNtEGrItY"

While back when i saw a similar thread along the lines something something  Chinese company is bad for owning DE stocks. So i actually went and look this company up.

The company is called Leyou, they're a former chicken processing company that has expanded into investing into the video game market. And that's really it they invest into some game companies(mostly free to play games). 

Can't find really anything bad about the company aside that they use to process chicken and then decide lets invest in video games weird but okay. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

3 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

they want money, all of it and this is the problem, once this cow stop making big time milk like it used to be then you will see what happen to this game, DE are making ton and ton of money and i am not just saying that, its true, i mean just by taking into account that they dont have any dedicated servers to worry about it proof enough that they're making a killing out of us and we're getting less in return, imagine if we have dedicated servers? i mean this game is suffering from content drought even without them and that is saying something.

The whole thread is just mass paranoia over nothing

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

7 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

its valid, did you see what EA is doing to boiware ? 

If your referring to anthem, that was all bioware's fault.

[541K4T]

5 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Second, Epic store exclusives are a GOOD THING! Valve takes a lion share of game's revenue (30%) for just distributing the game in their store, Epic takes 12%, which is why people go there! They do exclusives, because it's a good way to get players to that store, and, lets be honest it's also better for the devs if they sell more copies of the game on Epic than on Steam.
If this gets a strong enough wave, first, the complaints we have about Epic store not having as many features will start working itself out, because with more revenue means more means to improve, and second, valve will see their revenue's drop, and start having to adopt a fairer policy to compete with epic, which means more money to devs, which means more funds for better games!

It's really funny that all people have against Steam is their 30% commission, while there are numerous negatives that can be piled up against Epic. I am not gonna list them here, they are just a few google search away. And one more thing, you have no idea how EXCLUSIVE deal works. Read up on it, then you will understand that all it does is hurt the customers and devs / publishers image.

People seems to forget that without Steam digital distributions will have never taken its wing. Steam single handedly killed piracy, because Steam actually acknowledges Games as a service and worked to improve on that front. When Epic CEO says Customers and QoL features of steam does not matter, it pretty much explains Epics mission and visions, which is not healthy for the gaming industry at all. Exclusivity creates monopoly. Even if I ignore all the spyware allegation against Epic Launcher, the fact remains I can't buy from Epic since it does not support domestic payment and prices are not Regional.

Edited May 2, 2019 by 541K4T

[Ryusuta]

If they remove Warframe from Steam, they remove it from my library. As long as it's on Steam, i'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Guest]

Honestly, anyone who thinks that Epic taking only 12% now is going to be constant is probably a fool. This is a well known technique in market share alteration - you can see it as if Steam and Epic are "selling" a product which is a game store for games. 

Epic can capture more of the market by undercutting Steam, but this does not take into account any costs of operating the storefront. However, even if Epic is making a loss, if they can swallow up a lion's share of games and push Steam out of being the market leader, they can increase their cut price in future and take that same 30% as Steam, if not more, generating long run profit even if they are earning less with 12% instead of 30%.

Basically, by selling at a deficit now, they can make a lot of future profits after "market invasion". This is quite a basic tactic that has allowed people to capture market share in many industries.

I can't be half assed to explain it all, but yes, this whole thread looks like a mountain out of a molehill. There is no real long term advantage in the Epic Game Store, only short term ones.

[_fayth]

6 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

First, Steam is a major source of income for this game through tennogen, that Epic's client has no way of matching, so it would be pretty much a income loss for them.

Second, Epic store exclusives are a GOOD THING! Valve takes a lion share of game's revenue (30%) for just distributing the game in their store, Epic takes 12%, which is why people go there! They do exclusives, because it's a good way to get players to that store, and, lets be honest it's also better for the devs if they sell more copies of the game on Epic than on Steam.
If this gets a strong enough wave, first, the complaints we have about Epic store not having as many features will start working itself out, because with more revenue means more means to improve, and second, valve will see their revenue's drop, and start having to adopt a fairer policy to compete with epic, which means more money to devs, which means more funds for better games!

iirc 30% was the common tax amount used by all big names like sony, nintendo, mircosoft, google app store and even GoG....

[Methanoid]

6 hours ago, Hyperion5182 said:

I did. And i'm still worried. And i get losing Chinese access could be a huge problem. But i don't know another solution that does not leave DE out there to possibly being left hung out to dry like what just happened with Rocket League. 

when you have no choices.... you have no choices, even if the planets aligned perfectly and they saw the light, they cant do squat, tbh is a similar situation to the long dead FireFall, they got bought out and the game continued on...... in china and was left to rot for the rest of us, with parts even being removed and made non functional and eventually shut down, maybe their Chinese overlords earned plenty at home and the influx of cash from the rest of the world wasnt worth mentioning.  There are quite a few long posts dotted around detailing the whole drama, pity as i liked that game, if it didnt die id still be there instead of moving on to ME3:MP then here, and ive only stuck here because theres no other horde shooter, co-op sci-fi fun games out there yet.

With the way all gaming companies are going these days tho, "fun" is a long dead memory, instead its just going to be a future filled with games trying to fleece as much cash from you up front and moreso with megatransactions while abandoning the "fun" element alltogether, a pretty looking game doesnt equate to fun and many seem to be forgetting that.

[Methanoid]

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Honestly, anyone who thinks that Epic taking only 12% now is going to be constant is probably a fool. This is a well known technique in market share alteration - you can see it as if Steam and Epic are "selling" a product which is a game store for games. 

Epic can capture more of the market by undercutting Steam, but this does not take into account any costs of operating the storefront. However, even if Epic is making a loss, if they can swallow up a lion's share of games and push Steam out of being the market leader, they can increase their cut price in future and take that same 30% as Steam, if not more, generating long run profit even if they are earning less with 12% instead of 30%.

Basically, by selling at a deficit now, they can make a lot of future profits after "market invasion". This is quite a basic tactic that has allowed people to capture market share in many industries.

I can't be half assed to explain it all, but yes, this whole thread looks like a mountain out of a molehill. There is no real long term advantage in the Epic Game Store, only short term ones.

it is ofc easy for them to undercut, the thing is, steam/valve has earned their position by doing all the hard work for everyone else to examine and attempt to replicate without taking much of a risk as they have a visible success in steam to examine/mimic, plus as a gamer, most want a good quality of life with their preferred store, steam has that while epic is about as basic and rubbish as you can get.

Epic can goad valve all they want but at the end of the day epic needs to do way more work to attract players away from steam/origin/gog/etc, so far the best they can muster is the kind of pr stunts they have been doing of late to get noticed and in public view more often simply because the actual important part to players, their actual store is not up to par with others, if the epic store was feature full then they would just let it speak for itsself and people would probably flock over.

[-Delimit-]

7 hours ago, Midas said:

they bought 61% and later bought the other 39% can pull up the contracts if you want for proof.

Just stop, you have no access to the "contracts", you have some earnings reports/financial statements.

[BDMblue]

7 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

First, Steam is a major source of income for this game through tennogen, that Epic's client has no way of matching, so it would be pretty much a income loss for them.

Second, Epic store exclusives are a GOOD THING! Valve takes a lion share of game's revenue (30%) for just distributing the game in their store, Epic takes 12%, which is why people go there! They do exclusives, because it's a good way to get players to that store, and, lets be honest it's also better for the devs if they sell more copies of the game on Epic than on Steam.
If this gets a strong enough wave, first, the complaints we have about Epic store not having as many features will start working itself out, because with more revenue means more means to improve, and second, valve will see their revenue's drop, and start having to adopt a fairer policy to compete with epic, which means more money to devs, which means more funds for better games!

I agree. When I see hate on epic all I think is the different amounts they take from the game maker. Do we really hate on a place like epic when it’s sooo much better for the people making the game. It’s them I want my support to go to not steam.

Edited May 2, 2019 by BDMblue

[Szuna]

Reading through the whole topic the only real solution would have be if we players kickstart warframe and take a part of the shares so we can buy out DE from the Chinese company. The amount is possibly needed is 100-130 million usd for 20-25%. If we want some control over the game and how it's developed we need a strong control group who willing to listen to the community but have clear directions what we want in the game. I am sure not everyone can be listened because if the whole community has option to decide what the game should look like then it causes chaos but if the goal is less pay to win option and more human grinding - less time wall then we need to take some control too.

While the market is important but no need to give away freedom for it. Thinkering on solutions is much better than spreading chaos. My opinion we can take some control by kickstart the devs so they can work with less stress on the game also improving their team in each part.

ps : excuse me for grammar.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Szuna

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Szuna said:

Reading through the whole topic the only real solution would have be if we players kickstart warframe and take a part of the shares so we can buy out DE from the Chinese company. The amount is possibly needed is 100-130 million usd for 20-25%. If we want some control over the game and how it's developed we need a strong control group who willing to listen to the community but have clear directions what we want in the game. I am sure not everyone can be listened because if the whole community has option to decide what the game should look like then it causes chaos but if the goal is less pay to win option and more human grinding - less time wall then we need to take some control too.

While the market is important but no need to give away freedom for it. Thinkering on solutions is much better than spreading chaos. My opinion we can take some control by kickstart the devs so they can work with less stress on the game also improving their team in each part.

Neat thought but, the whole Layou thing happened because the Chinese market brings in a lot more money than everywhere else, and (from what I remember) DE can't operate in China unless it's owned by a Chinese company. 

Your suggestion would take out a possibly huge chunk of revenue for DE with no avenue of replacement.  I think that would create more stress than they have going on now. 

Personally, I'd rather have DE set up a subsidiary of their own and move Warframe to that and let the Chinese company have what they've got now.  DE would still create all original content, build the game their way, and then they could sell the updates to the Chinese company. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

9 minutes ago, Szuna said:

Reading through the whole topic the only real solution would have be if we players kickstart warframe and take a part of the shares so we can buy out DE from the Chinese company. The amount is possibly needed is 100-130 million usd for 20-25%. If we want some control over the game and how it's developed we need a strong control group who willing to listen to the community but have clear directions what we want in the game. I am sure not everyone can be listened because if the whole community has option to decide what the game should look like then it causes chaos but if the goal is less pay to win option and more human grinding - less time wall then we need to take some control too.

While the market is important but no need to give away freedom for it. Thinkering on solutions is much better than spreading chaos. My opinion we can take some control by kickstart the devs so they can work with less stress on the game also improving their team in each part.

ps : excuse me for grammar.

Are you serious?

[Szuna]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Neat thought but, the whole Layou thing happened because the Chinese market brings in a lot more money than everywhere else, and (from what I remember) DE can't operate in China unless it's owned by a Chinese company. 

Your suggestion would take out a possibly huge chunk of revenue for DE with no avenue of replacement.  I think that would create more stress than they have going on now. 

Personally, I'd rather have DE set up a subsidiary of their own and move Warframe to that and let the Chinese company have what they've got now.  DE would still create all original content, build the game their way, and then they could sell the updates to the Chinese company. 

I considered the same because China is a large country but India also growing and they have no those restrictions. China is different story because the government the first whom you need to make a deal after that you can send your product there but with restrictions and softening. Not sure how they solved but I guess they just let a local company "Leyou-Tencent" to make a local watered down version to the game and the revenue major part is going to the chinese company and government. 

I think that the European, American Market "if you consider Africa also" can make good reveneues but these places needs some improvements/ investments.

[Szuna]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Are you serious?

Yep. I think this is an option, maybe not a good way to go but an alternative.

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, Szuna said:

I considered the same because China is a large country but India also growing and they have no those restrictions. China is different story because the government the first whom you need to make a deal after that you can send your product there but with restrictions and softening. Not sure how they solved but I guess they just let a local company "Leyou-Tencent" to make a local watered down version to the game and the revenue major part is going to the chinese company and government. 

I think that the European, American Market "if you consider Africa also" can make good reveneues but these places needs some improvements/ investments.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, I just don't think it's feasible and would do more harm than anything, at this point. 

[Szuna]

Just now, MagPrime said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, I just don't think it's feasible and would do more harm than anything, at this point. 

True. It was just an alternative idea. May work but before doing this or something it needs to be tested how that could work. If the game could survive more than 20 year then the new places could generate enough revenue to keep the game alive for more time. Depend on how long the devs wish to cater the game. Star Citizen now exists in this state without major shareholders and companies. They live on their kickstarters and if they can deliver a good product then the game could be profitable enough to sustain itself for decades.

Currently China is the partial solution because the developement rate, population = possible revenue and the short term money boost helps. In long Term they should keep their local and world wide fanbase.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

28 minutes ago, Szuna said:

Yep. I think this is an option, maybe not a good way to go but an alternative.

So, I bought 20% from “Players package”, but my ideas will not be implemented because they don’t fit your visions?

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So, I bought 20% from “Players package”, but my ideas will not be implemented because they don’t fit your visions?

You've misunderstood;  you personally don't buy 20%, a portion of the player base buys 20% of DE in order to gain control of it. 

Then an administrative body would be needed to filter the millions of ideas and concepts that would be out forth. 

[Szuna]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So, I bought 20% from “Players package”, but my ideas will not be implemented because they don’t fit your visions?

They can only realize those ideas what fits to the game but it can be listened if you support them. Like my ideas not implemented yet despite I spent a lot of money into them. If we make a control group whom present our opinions and ideas then your and others idea can be listened and considered. 

[Szuna]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

You've misunderstood;  you personally don't buy 20%, a portion of the player base buys 20% of DE in order to gain control of it. 

Then an administrative body would be needed to filter the millions of ideas and concepts that would be out forth. 

Exactly.