Nyx : the body of a goddess , the abilities of a chicken

[000l000]

Il y a 10 heures, Vanilla_nuka a dit :

Yeah she is, she literally has an ability that makes you invincible as long as you have energy, I have face tanked wolf on numerous occasions, solo and in a team

No, Nyx 4th main purpose is to be used as a decoy with retaliative opportunity, not walking through entire levels being invulnerable which (1) wouldn't make sense (2) would have been nerfed at some point by anyone at DE, hence the most expensive cost.

Most people are only confused once again cause they think that spamming 4th with every single frame is the pinnacle of game design. The same way Valkyr 4th cost is designed to be highly increased after some time, Nyx would follow the same path, perma invulnerability is just plain dumb in a game. Some players were only using some exploits thanks to nearly broken energy resplenishment mechanics.

Nyx 4th is supposed to explode, deal with it (until DE design team decides otherwise).

[Benour]

So this turned from nyx is useless ---- to nyx is op cause Assimilate augment.

Truth is shes JUST fine she has her niche/use. Yes her rework didnt do much, yes it couldve been better. Yes shes not octavia lvl of broken OP. And yes if you nerf her Assimilate aug shes done, useless, CC and "invul" bubble is her only niche. Her Assimilate aug is her only saving grace, period. 

Nuking with nyx was NEVER a thing btw, its to slow/obnoxious for team. Also we have so many nuke frames already that can dish out 10x more dps than nyx sitting in bubble doing literally nothing. Passive gameplay at its finest. 👍

[ArcKnight9202]

5 hours ago, Howtoshootgun said:

Old Passive + Chaos was confusion+disarm in a wide range. Powerful defensive tool imo but bad for reasons (DPS LOSS ON MC TARGETS!11!) so not anymore. Loki has the same thing, its called radial disarm and everyone likes it, how curious.

I dont have much hope (ive read praise for the lame ineffectual, weak miss chance passive - the one which has to be disabled to work right with absorb) and cant be bothered to get triggered by this botch of a rework anymore (quit playing, Nyx was the only fun to play frame for me) but if im getting this right theyre gonna push Nyx skins soonish, so maybe theres a chance for some positive development.

 

 

Ya, I don't get the support for the current passive and Psychic Bolts.

The passive is bad since it doesn't take much to absolutely shred Nyx. I use EMP aura on Saryn in ESO, trust me, it does very little when there are thousands of rounds flying around. Not to mention when they start hitting hard, you just hear pew-pew and it's lights out. Not to mention something Xzorn said in regards to being hit by crossfire and the like. It would suffer similar problems at 99% effectiveness. Totally pointless at low levels and bad at high levels due to projectile volume. That old passive kept enemies in each others faces and drew most of their gunfire. It's just not the same now.

As for Psychic Bolts, it's very easy to work around armor and shields. So much so that dumpstering Power Strength for this ability has little to no effect on how effectively one can kill everything with our very unbalanced arsenal. It turned Nyx into a 2 skill warframe in my eyes. It gets worse as your arsenal improves. If I really want to strip armor, Shattering Impact works on literally any melee with impact damage on it. Usually only sortie bosses get this treatment.

This might sound harsh to people who legitimately enjoy this iteration of Nyx, but I don't mean it to. I wish I could enjoy it, too. However, with how I used to play her, I get the closest playstyle from Revenant. I even get a fancy defensive skill that doesn't require an augment. (I play mostly solo so this might sound odd to some people out of context.)

Edited May 7, 2019 by ArcKnight9202

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Yeah I was using my 4 against the Wolf last night.  My energy pool was lasting about 5 seconds at a time.  Why?  Teammates were shooting him too lol.

Also, if we're going to try to call Absorb balanced, we need to give similar restrictions to other tanking abilities.

[DerGreif2]

8 hours ago, Benour said:

So this turned from nyx is useless ---- to nyx is op cause Assimilate augment. 

Truth is shes JUST fine she has her niche/use. Yes her rework didnt do much, yes it couldve been better. Yes shes not octavia lvl of broken OP. And yes if you nerf her Assimilate aug shes done, useless, CC and "invul" bubble is her only niche. Her Assimilate aug is her only saving grace, period. 

Nuking with nyx was NEVER a thing btw, its to slow/obnoxious for team. Also we have so many nuke frames already that can dish out 10x more dps than nyx sitting in bubble doing literally nothing. Passive gameplay at its finest. 👍

 

Because of one comment pls... Nyx is trash because if a frame does not tick one of the following things its bad (even the Statistics show that):

 

1. Some form of Damage reduction

or

2. Nuke (wide AoE damage)

or

3. Invisibilety

or

4. Heal

 

So lets see what Nyx has... oh right nothing. Why should you struggle to survive and use a ability that slows down the mission? because all in all her 3 is the only ability that is fine.

[Xzorn]

10 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

4. Heal

 

You can prolly scratch this one.

Without DR, healing is useless and you likely have a form of healing through Magus Elevate or Arcanes if you have DR.

In the current eHP + DPS setup yea, Nyx is pretty pointless. In her old stomping grounds of Endurance runs she's less than she was.

Nothing really positive has happened with her rework. Mostly negative by trying to force her into a meta she doesn't work with.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

On top of what's mentioned, I believe I last counted 17 Warframes that are a combination of tank, CC and DPS.

Because of that, the remaining frames that are more specialized need to do their job extremely well.

It seems their attempt for Nyx was to make her number 18.  Obviously, that didn't exactly turn out in anywhere near the quality of the 17.  Either she needs to be better at her current realistic roles, or they need to stop being scared of her actually being able to use the enemies to kill the enemies.

[Mados.sys]

On 2019-05-06 at 2:50 PM, Vanilla_nuka said:

 

 

Already is spammable

I mean yeah is kinda spammable but not on the right way, is spammable to re-cast the skill on new enemies, but it doesnt affect more than 6, that's the cap of the skill and it's absurd because Mag can do the same to the entire map, why Nyx can't affect more than 6 enemies based on how many more bolts she launches?

[Kontrollo]

3 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I mean yeah is kinda spammable but not on the right way, is spammable to re-cast the skill on new enemies, but it doesnt affect more than 6, that's the cap of the skill and it's absurd because Mag can do the same to the entire map, why Nyx can't affect more than 6 enemies based on how many more bolts she launches?

Probably because you don't get 99% strip with +24% Power Strength on another frame?

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Nyx's Deluxe was mentioned in the dev post, but no mention of a fix for Assimilate losing all energy to allied damage.

Can we please get some kind of confirmation that our feedback and bug reports have been read and that there is a work in progress?

[K4RN4]

Isn't that a feature?

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

6 minutes ago, K4RN4 said:

Isn't that a feature?

No.  Not for years.

[Pizzarugi]

10 minutes ago, K4RN4 said:

Isn't that a feature?

Absorb, Nyx's base skill, is supposed to take allied damage.

Assimilate, the augment for Absorb, is supposed to prevent allied damage.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Crap, it got combined into another thread.  I get why, I just really wish someone at DE would provide said status update.

Honestly, this is starting to burn me out.  If they cannot be bothered to consider any of the bug fix requests I've made for the past two months (some community supported, one making it to the front page of the subreddit and remaining there for 22 hours), I'm contemplating taking a break until they start treating my favorite Warframe the same as the others. 

It should not take moving mountains for them to fix an easily trollable bug.

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Crap, it got combined into another thread.  I get why, I just really wish someone at DE would provide said status update.

Honestly, this is starting to burn me out.  If they cannot be bothered to consider any of the bug fix requests I've made for the past two months (some community supported, one making it to the front page of the subreddit and remaining there for 22 hours), I'm contemplating taking a break until they start treating my favorite Warframe the same as the others. 

It should not take moving mountains for them to fix an easily trollable bug.

Might already be part of the next mainline. If that's the case, it'll be fixed next week on PC and soon after on the consoles. Some things take time.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

43 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Might already be part of the next mainline. If that's the case, it'll be fixed next week on PC and soon after on the consoles. Some things take time.

Hopefully.  And now that I think about it, they may be quiet in responses to prevent "last minute trolling."  Still odd to not acknowledge bug reports for months, but could be a reason.

If there's nothing in the mainline though, similar to the last mainline following us raising the issue, I doubt anything is coming.

[Mados.sys]

19 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Probably because you don't get 99% strip with +24% Power Strength on another frame?

That would be an absurd reason to prevent her from casting the Bolt into everyone, Mag can remove shields and armor in a second on the entire map, and Nyx can't because she reduces 99% with augur secrets? Oh please, and building Nyx for strength over duration and range just to get that 100% (just intensify) doesn't sound good for how she is at the moment.

Just with 50% I'm okay, but having to limit my bolts to just 6 targets when i have entire groups that are up to 20 or 30 guys is just awful, especially when I'm on a defense with group, is making weaker 6 random targets going to really make a difference when again, Mag can do the same and better? Or Nova that can make enemies as weaker as a stick? wich is just similar or even better than reducing shields and armor, or at least i feel it that way.

I'm gonna stick to my idea on this one, the Bolts should increase based on your strength and should affect targets for a period of time, at least on that way casting 3 times the bolts could affect more than 30 targets.

[Vanilla_nuka]

On 2019-05-07 at 1:19 AM, 000l000 said:

No, Nyx 4th main purpose is to be used as a decoy with retaliative opportunity, not walking through entire levels being invulnerable which (1) wouldn't make sense (2) would have been nerfed at some point by anyone at DE, hence the most expensive cost.

Most people are only confused once again cause they think that spamming 4th with every single frame is the pinnacle of game design. The same way Valkyr 4th cost is designed to be highly increased after some time, Nyx would follow the same path, perma invulnerability is just plain dumb in a game. Some players were only using some exploits thanks to nearly broken energy resplenishment mechanics.

Nyx 4th is supposed to explode, deal with it (until DE design team decides otherwise).

While it does have the increased aggro draw it is more then possible to walk through an entire level being invulnerable with the right build, the expensive cost can be reduced to minimal with high duration and efficiency

Nyxs explosion is designed to be an AOE CC to prevent her from being oneshot when coming out of absorb, it does that job to a certain extent, just not well

[Vanilla_nuka]

On 2019-05-07 at 12:02 AM, Howtoshootgun said:

Old Passive + Chaos was confusion+disarm in a wide range. Powerful defensive tool imo but bad for reasons (DPS LOSS ON MC TARGETS!11!) so not anymore. Loki has the same thing, its called radial disarm and everyone likes it, how curious.

I dont have much hope (ive read praise for the lame ineffectual, weak miss chance passive - the one which has to be disabled to work right with absorb) and cant be bothered to get triggered by this botch of a rework anymore (quit playing, Nyx was the only fun to play frame for me) but if im getting this right theyre gonna push Nyx skins soonish, so maybe theres a chance for some positive development.

 

 

Her old passive was next to useless, because if your passive disarmed your mind controlled target, they were completely useless, and if it disarmed enemies when you wanted to use your absorb, it prevented you from being up any kinda damage to make absorb useful. Chaos is still fine as is, and her new passive is much much better then her old one.

Her QoL update was much needed, and changed her for the better, I wouldnt expect to get any nyx changes with the new skin, if it happens great, but it didnt happen with limbo or atlas

[Xzorn]

On 2019-05-08 at 4:01 PM, Kontrollo said:

Probably because you don't get 99% strip with +24% Power Strength on another frame?

 

Base it on mod slots instead of the % value. See if it feels worth while by comparison.

Polarity cost, Mod ranks. None of that actually matters. It's the 8 slot limit the truly binds us.

In Nyx's case she gives up one very useful mod. Overextended then swaps it for a less useful mod like Augur Reach at which point she takes up an extra slot she did not previously need to get that 100% Armor strip. Essentially she sacrifices 90% Power Range (60% if you swap Augur) and a mod slot for 100% Strip on a limit of 6 enemies.

That's too high of a price. Especially when the CC potential of the ability is gone. Bring back the Rad proc I'd have less complaint. Bring back both Rad proc and Disarm and we've have something in the right direction.

 

3 hours ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Her old passive was next to useless, because if your passive disarmed your mind controlled target, they were completely useless, and if it disarmed enemies when you wanted to use your absorb, it prevented you from being up any kinda damage to make absorb useful.

 

Nyx doesn't get shot at when you play her well. Her new passive could just be left blank while her old passive made the map safer for her and the team by bunching enemies together and reducing crossfire. He new passive makes such little sense they have to deactivate it for one of her abilities. Not like it makes a difference.

As for MC I'm guessing you haven't seen Grineer shoot each other for eternity meanwhile that Sheev could drop another Grineer with one Bleed proc. Most units were actually more effective without their guns both in terms of killing things and creating a better distraction while getting the hell away from the player because the last thing you want is a rocket intended for your MC target to splash you. Then of course spamming, esp with her augment just stopped things like that entirely.

Her Bolts should be marking targets for MC. That's just.... Basic. The player is just wasting their time fooling with these dumb mechanics.

 Feel free to prove her new passive's value. I know it can't be done. I've done work with Accuracy on enemy AI in the past. It's pointless.

[Autongnosis]

Accuracy penalties do not work because as far as i've been able to determine they are some sort of flat subtraction, which means as the levels scale up it becomes from broken to good to meh to almost literally useless. 

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

That would be an absurd reason to prevent her from casting the Bolt into everyone, Mag can remove shields and armor in a second on the entire map, and Nyx can't because she reduces 99% with augur secrets? Oh please, and building Nyx for strength over duration and range just to get that 100% (just intensify) doesn't sound good for how she is at the moment

Absurd is how you try to paint this. Mag removes a flat amount of armour -- at R3 that's 400 with 100% Strength, which is ~500 with 124% -- which quickly becomes weak compared to the percentage based reduction of the bolts. A Corrupted Heavy Gunner at level 40 already has ~1.5k armour and it only takes a single Augur mod to unlock that ability's full debuff potential (at reasonable enemy levels).

Of course they're not going to let us target the whole map with those kinds of numbers.

 

38 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Base it on mod slots instead of the % value. See if it feels worth while by comparison.

Polarity cost, Mod ranks. None of that actually matters. It's the 8 slot limit the truly binds us.

In Nyx's case she gives up one very useful mod. Overextended then swaps it for a less useful mod like Augur Reach at which point she takes up an extra slot she did not previously need to get that 100% Armor strip. Essentially she sacrifices 90% Power Range (60% if you swap Augur) and a mod slot for 100% Strip on a limit of 6 enemies.

That's too high of a price. Especially when the CC potential of the ability is gone. Bring back the Rad proc I'd have less complaint. Bring back both Rad proc and Disarm and we've have something in the right direction.

I think you've been too narrowly focused on your own state of progression and idea of endgame for a while now to see how the new Bolts make sense. Before she was all about max range and negative strength. Now there's at least another option. Of course, for both of us it hardly matters -- well, for me at least it opens up weapon choice because I rarely run around with meta gear -- but I don't think we were the target audience of that rework, anyway.

Yes, if you really want to make use of them at the levels we're playing then you'll have to sacrifice some range/efficiency +1 mod slot for it. But as it makes so little sense for this frame to dip into Power Strength in the first place, if they made it any more expensive to get that kind of effect out of it, I wouldn't even bother trying to make a build in the first place (proof: I just reverted to max range before they removed the hold-to-recast mechanic).

On its own, Overextended is not a great mod, and more Power Strength and I could just play Oberon anyway. I think there's little leeway in how they can fit the ability on this particular frame.

And if you don't want to buy into that then of course it's a net loss -- at least Pacifying Bots is reasonable again.

 

With all that said, I've stated before that I wouldn't mind just reverting it all to the state of summer 2018, without all the bugs and headache we got in the meantime. But it is what it is.

[Howtoshootgun]

5 hours ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

if your passive disarmed your mind controlled target, they were completely useless

Oh god no, this *censored* argument again

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

As for MC I'm guessing you haven't seen Grineer shoot each other for eternity meanwhile that Sheev could drop another Grineer with one Bleed proc. Most units were actually more effective without their guns both in terms of killing things and creating a better distraction while getting the hell away from the player because the last thing you want is a rocket intended for your MC target to splash you

This. Plus anything but a bursa, bombard or corpus tech takes ages to kill anything. How can you play Nyx for any length of time and not notice that enemy vs enemy dps is crap in general and the primary use for mc is to get eximuses or whatever out of the way and youre better of using, you know, GUNS to kill stuff instead of waiting around for mc targets to slowly do it. Different strokes i guess. But yes the HUGE DPS LOSS apparently warranted gimping one of Nyx strongest CC tools. But who needs CC nowadays anyways right

Edited May 9, 2019 by Howtoshootgun

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

2 minutes ago, Howtoshootgun said:

This. Anything but a bursa, bomard or corpus tech takes ages to kill anything. How can you play Nyx for any length of time and not notice that enemy vs enemy dps is crap in general and the primary use for mc is to get eximuses or whatever out of the way and youre better of using, you know, GUNS to kill stuff. Different strokes i guess. But yes the HUGE DPS LOSS apparently warranted gimping one of Nyx strongest CC tools. But who needs CC nowadays anyways right

Amusingly, broken grenades lately has been one of the best buffs ever to Nyx's 3's DPS.  With T4 multiplier, they kill each other without any debuffs sometimes.

[Xzorn]

51 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I think you've been too narrowly focused on your own state of progression and idea of endgame for a while now to see how the new Bolts make sense. Before she was all about max range and negative strength. Now there's at least another option. Of course, for both of us it hardly matters -- well, for me at least it opens up weapon choice because I rarely run around with meta gear -- but I don't think we were the target audience of that rework, anyway.

 

I'm narrowly focused on Nyx being a Defensive / CC frame which is what she is and always has been.

What meta weapons? I used mostly pure elemental and beam weapons for Nyx because her Pacifying Bolt Augment stops working if you proc Impact or any other animation status effect on an enemy or if another enemy does. Then again they ruined the Augment and the stun still ends abruptly when Chaos ends for no reason.

Weapon choices? Sure but at what level range? The range where you could pick anything anyways or the range where the Armor strip might make a difference but you're either perma Assimilate or you / another player are dead on the ground since they took vital CC out of her kit? It's quite redundant by comparison. She needs the CC they took to keep the team alive so the Armor strip can do it's work and they've made Assimilate mandatory for her.

I would prefer a revert myself. They only did one positive thing for her IMO and that was to make MC a one-hand action. They wanted to "Give Nyx some Love" but they took from her as well and the price she paid wasn't worth it.