Please do not cave on Nightwave.

[MrInubis]

13 minutes ago, DebrisFlow said:

Biggest contradiction ever. Please think a little bit more about that and respond when you have clear ideas. You're ok with alternatives (reads, literally, another choice) .....and...not giving players a choice so they can do whatever they want or feel like doing. ?!?

 

You responded so fast, of course you didn't even read my points, that are, actually, in favor of more difficult challenges, as a choice, and would match your idea of tougher tasks:

 

Please, tell me how these examples could not be the most lazy way of doing things. And how could they solve the problem that i continue to state and you continue to ignore: trivial, boring gameplay.

 

Again, you didn't read my lines that explain that the alternatives that i propose are not fitting NW to my style but offering a choice to add our styles togheter. Alternative != change, read again my definition and reevaluate.

 

Again i read it carefully but im against changing night wave in a way you want it. I dont want alternatives IN NW because that would lead to things is said before. I want new, alternative system that will lead to same rewards. Im against such changes. Those are not alternatives! Gameplay is boring and trivial for you but we had topics like Index challenge being to hard. Its aimed toward such players and should remain as such. 

 

Propose something new that will not involve changing what we currently have then im all aboard. i say NO to new ways of playing Night Wave, I say YES to other ways of getting NW rewards. I hope thats clear this time because i cant thing of simpler way to say it.

Edited August 1, 2019 by kuciol

[DebrisFlow]

9 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Again i read it carefully but im against changing night wave in a way you want it. I dont want alternatives IN NW because that would lead to things is said before. I want new, alternative system that will lead to same rewards. Im against such changes. Those are not alternatives! Gameplay is boring and trivial for you but we had topics like Index challenge being to hard. Its aimed toward such players and should remain as such. 

 

Propose something new that will not involve changing what we currently have then im all aboard. i say NO to new ways of playing Night Wave, I say YES to other ways of getting NW rewards. I hope thats clear this time because i cant thing of simpler way to say it.

No, sorry, it's not clear at all because the amount of fundamental contradictions in your thoughts is too high, i pointed at them and you still didn't aknowledged them. I think that your choice of words and sentences reflects the fact that you didn't understand a single line of my reasonement, you're just repeaing yourself without adding a more elaborate explanation following my criticism. I'm sorry but i won't continue this dialectic because it's useless.

[MrInubis]

14 minutes ago, DebrisFlow said:

No, sorry, it's not clear at all because the amount of fundamental contradictions in your thoughts is too high, i pointed at them and you still didn't aknowledged them. I think that your choice of words and sentences reflects the fact that you didn't understand a single line of my reasonement, you're just repeaing yourself without adding a more elaborate explanation following my criticism. I'm sorry but i won't continue this dialectic because it's useless.

You want new ways of completing NW, you want a choice in the NW. I want something totally new which would be alternative to NW as a whole. There is nothing contradictory in that statement. Leave NW alone and put those rewards elsewhere.

Edited August 1, 2019 by kuciol

[Caripillar]

I have seen way too much salt about nightwave, and I think a lot of people complaining about the challenges forget that this game, especially with the recent Tennocon, has a lot of new players, and content needs to be accessible for them as well, and not just the veterans. Sure, If you're over 2k hours deep and done everything, none of the nightwave stuff is remotely hard, just things to tick off your list of stuff to go do and then move on with life. That's fine, but a large amount of the player base isn't of that level, and aside from the gild challenge (bye felicia), none of the others really warrant as much hate as they get.

I've seen a few similar and equally good suggestions in here like rerolling challenges, and all of them revolve around player choice. I think the simplest way to do that is to introduce a tiered system of challenges, with each tier awarding increasingly higher rep and also increasing challenge. So for example:

Elite Challenges 10-15k standing (or whatever amount), 3 per week

• Tridolon
• 60min kuva survival no life support
• 5x Sortie
• Some awful rivenesque challenges (dargyns anyone?)
• 5x bounties
• 10x nightmare
• 2x arby
• [Insert whatever else veterans keep saying they want]
• [insert other nightwave stuff people don't like doing and that's worth more than 7k rep]

Intermediate Challenges 7k standing, 5 per week

• Terry
• 30min survival/20 wave defence
• 1x kuva flood
• 3x sortie
• Kill 100 eximus
• [other existing 7k ones that i can't list off the top of my head]

Beginner Challenges 4.5k standing, 8 per week

• The usual 3x [mission type]
• Kill 150 enemies etc
• 1x bounty
• Level a weapon or frame to rank 30
• Craft an item
• [Insert things someone below MR10 can do as part of normal gameplay]
• [existing easy ones]

Obviously the lists for each need to be much longer to give us a better pool, just trying to illustrate the point. Rep cap of 36.5k remains unchanged, but you're now given the option to mix and match what challenges you want to do, up until the cap. Dailies remain untouched. So Player A with everything in the game ever comes, slaps out his 3 elite challenges, done for the week. Player B who isn't as far into the game, can do a mix of beginner and intermediate challenges to cap out, and Player C who is brand new mr3 can finish all of the beginner challenges during the week as he levels up, and all of them get the same amount of rep at the end of the week. That way this makes it much much easier for people on the front end of the game to actually complete, and rewards people who are capable of the higher content by making them do less stuff they've already done 1000 times before, especially since that's the complaint I've seen many times in this thread alone.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Caripillar

[Steel_Rook]

7 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Do people honestly believe DE started googling ways to abuse mental issues, stumbled upon "FOMO," and proceeded to aim to take advantage of players who are susceptible to it? People really have low opinions of this company.

It's not like they haven't done this before. Selling Catalysts in the cash shop only, charging for revives, the whole Kubrow appearance gambling thing, etc. Sure, all of those have since been rolled back, but the mere fact that they were in the game in the first place gives you a window into DE's mentality. I wouldn't go as far as to call them malicious in that they're deliberately praying on people's weaknesses, but come on. You design a system where a player can pay money, "hit the lever" and get a random reward... And you DON'T expect someone to spend hundreds of real-life dollars hitting the lever on your SLOT MACHINE? Really? You charge people money to revive at a time when they're frustrated, vulnerable and not thinking straight and you DON'T see how this is praying on our lack of judgement during moments of tension? Really? That's entirely consistent with insidious manipulation, as well as with utterly tone-deaf cluelessness. I'm willing to err on the side of the latter, but neither is exactly a good look.

Warframe has a reputation for "DA BEST F2P EVA!!!" largely because its monetisation model offers a lot of value for money - that I'm not doubting. Even a little Platinum can go a LONG way, and few things are obviously designed to be purchased more than earned. However, it has some of the most aggressive habit-forming mechanics I've ever run into, and I've played quite a few MMOs. 24-hour build times, daily login rewards, staggered RNG, rewards for watching them on Stream... On their own, each is a harmless bit of engagement. Taken together, they create a game which aggressively drills its way into your daily schedule right next to breakfast, work and brushing your teeth. Warframe's business model doesn't want you grinding for hours and hours. It wants you coming back every day, to the point where logging in to grab your daily reward, move your Extractors around and have a look at your Foundry is as natural as getting dressed in the morning, to the point where many (myself included) keep logging into the game even on days when we aren't playing it because to not do so is to miss out.

I'm willing to give DE the benefit of a doubt, in that they genuinely meant to create a fun, engaging reward system which would make people feel good about logging into the game and fell over backwards into predatory mechanics due to cribbing from the dreck that is Fortnite. Fair enough. They've improved their reward systems in the past on a number of occasions and continue to do so. Nightwave Season 2 is itself a major step in the right direction. If Season 3 continues this trend, I foresee the complaints slowly dying down to background noise. However, it's not like they've never done anything to make me suspicious of their motives.

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

The challenges are very easy, rerolling should be an opportunity to replace it with something a little bit higher on the curve that you actually want to do.  Otherwise, people will reroll just to get the most brain dead speedrun-able option, just like the rest of Warframe.

And why is that a bad thing? For one thing, not all of us care about "speed-run-able" challenges. I'm fine with stuff that takes longer as long as it's not tedious or annoying to run. For another thing, what do you care who runs what content? If people want to speed-run stuff, then let them? Nightwave is self-limiting even in its current incarnation. Those who speed-run the Elite Weeklies get to be done with them slightly faster, but they end up with the same Standing at the end of the week as everyone else. The only benefit there is for people who want to play Warframe as little as possible and want to be done with the Weeklies as fast as possible before logging out, in which case... Again, what do you care? Let them.

I don't get this mentality that I as an average player have to be forced to play content that I don't enjoy on pain of losing rewards because YOU don't approve of the content I choose to run. I'd go as far as to argue that that's easily Warframe's greatest failing. The game has a MASSIVE body of content added across what? 6-7 years now? And yet all of the new content is bottlenecked behind a single mission. Want Wisp? Keep grinding the Ropalolyst. Don't like that semi-raid-boss fight? Tough, you have to do it. Want Baruuk? Run the Profit-Taker. Don't like Fortuna? I don't care, just eat it. Slapping me with what amounts to a "#*!% YOU!" alternative to an activity I would rather not do doesn't in any way enhance my experience. It punishes me for daring to want choice.

And you're also ignoring a few basic design issues. If you send players to a higher difficulty challenge, you need to reward them more Standing. If you don't, then that's a steep penalty. If you do, then that upsets the "weekly cap by proxy" requiring an additional system for capping Standing. And if you do reward extra standing but don't cap it, then you've shifted the Status Quo completely. Now everyone is expected to run 7 Elite Weeklies per week, rather than 5 Weeklies and 2 Elite Weeklies. If you want higher challenge, ask for higher challenge. There's no reason to cannibalise a reroll system, especially when you rob it of its whole point in the process.

Besides, you're acting like players can just pick their missions at will, like I'll run 10 Nightmare missions twice a week every week. If you actually look at any of the reroll proposals brought up so far, the rerolls are limited and the result unpredictable. My personal proposal was 1 Weekly reroll per day, 1 Elite Weekly reroll every 2 days, reset on Monday. That's 7 Weekly rerolls across 5 Weekly missions and 3 Elite Weekly rerolls across 2 missions. If you're lucky and you get a "speed-runnable" Elite Weekly in one slot, the best you can do is re-roll the other three times, which would require you to come back every couple of days and still not guarantee you'll get the same speed-runnable mission. Throw in a limit on duplicate missions (i.e. if you rolled a challenge in one slot, you can't roll that again in another slot) and you gain further control over what players can do. At the end of the day, those of us asking for rerolls aren't doing it because we want to run a specific challenge. Rather, it's because we want to NOT run specific challenges and would like an option to replace them with "almost anything else."

 

1 hour ago, Caripillar said:

I've seen a few similar and equally good suggestions in here like rerolling challenges, and all of them revolve around player choice. I think the simplest way to do that is to introduce a tiered system of challenges, with each tier awarding increasingly higher rep and also increasing challenge. So for example:

To start, your list of Elite Weeklies is very uneven. Doing 10 Nightmare missions is essentially trivial, and easily accessible to even new players. Doing 60 minutes of Kuva survival without using life support, on the other hand, not possible for some people. I have 1600 hours in Warframe at this point and I couldn't pull it off with the builds I have. That requires a premade, organised team or at the very least a pretty competent veteran player to pull off. Hell, 5 Sorties is arguably even worse. Not only does it take 5 full days to pull off, but 1 Sortie is substantially more difficult than 2 Nightmare missions, regardless of context.

That aside, there's a fundamental issue with your approach to Player Choice, in that the maximum possible standing is what determins status quo. Progression systems are balanced around the most min/maxed, most optimal farming and grinding practices because the ultimate goal is to keep people from progressing too fast. By throwing more challenges into each week, you shift the status quo even higher up - more so since what you're adding is EVEN HARDER challenges. The existing Elite Weeklies which you have tagged as "Intermediate" are already outside the capabilities some people. I can't do 8 waves of Sanctuary Onslaught if I tried, and I hate the game mode too much to bother figuring out what I'm doing wrong. Yet your version of Elite Challenges holds almost 40% of all weekly standing. If, then, I'm someone who can do some but not all Intermediate challenges, and by default can't do any of the Elite challenges, then that's the majority of the standing gone right there.

If you want to go with the system you're proposing, then Nightwave HAS to have a Weekly Standing cap. That is to say, the maximum Nightwave Standing you can earn per week is capped at some value reasonable for mere mortals, and those pursuing Elite Challenges will simply be able to hit that cap faster and with fewer missions. Status quo is preserved, efficient players get to match it more easily and nobody gets left behind. That's the only way I'm willing to accept having these stupid-high-difficult challenges that most people - judging by the overwhelmingly negative response to Season 1 - simply don't like. And no, "just earn less Standing per week" is not a real choice. Warframe is not a job, nor is it a sport.

In fact, what I've been pushing for since Nightwave launched was pretty much what I described above - double or triple the number of Weekly and Elite Weekly challenges, but cap Standing gain to 43K for every week, reset on Monday. If you overshoot, the extra standing counts against your cap for next week. If you run old challenges from previous weeks via the "recovered challenge" system, that challenge counts against its own week's Standing Cap. If that week's Standing Cap is exceeded, then cascade against the caps for subsequent weeks until the present one. These are solvable technical issues, as long as people can accept having more challenges than they can earn Standing for each week. That's the only way I can see  this proposal happen.

[Showerwalker]

On the subject of challenges, what happened to Design Council Challenges?? Honestly. I won't do a 30min survival, but I'd gladly do 2hrs of that, holy S#&$ they were interesting. Come to think of it, that was probably the last time I got excited about team compositions and exploring unique mechanics, can we not have these as elite challenges DE?

Edited August 1, 2019 by Showerwalker

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

8 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

No, sorry, it's not clear at all because the amount of fundamental contradictions in your thoughts is too high, i pointed at them and you still didn't aknowledged them. I think that your choice of words and sentences reflects the fact that you didn't understand a single line of my reasonement, you're just repeaing yourself without adding a more elaborate explanation following my criticism. I'm sorry but i won't continue this dialectic because it's useless.

 

I would not advise arguing with this person any longer. He frequently comes into these threads opposing NW and throws up some straw-man arguments. It's unfortunate he chooses to be like this, but thats the reality :|

[Oreades]

To be fair I do take issue with the Gilding (at present removed from rotation) and Forma challenges because they force the player to tackle the game at the games pace not theirs. 

For my frequent reference I point to the time I sat down and tossed like six forma into my Archguns and then like two days later, Use X Forma popped up. Which leaves people like myself in a place where I don't feel that I can forma things because now I'm constantly waiting for the challenge to pop up as Formaing outside of it is essentially a loss of Nightwave points.

Similarly I take issue with the "different" prefix they have been slapping on mission types this time around because it again forces the player to play at the games pace not theirs. If for example I wanted to run multiple T4 bounties to try my luck at a lens only one of those counts towards the NW mission and that is just ultra lame.

Everything else is pretty much gravy and IMHO NW is 1000% better than being a slave to timers that Alerts offered. The only thing those had going was instant gratification at the cost of being completely SOL if you missed the 30min-1hr window that the alert was up for. Which just wasn't a good fit for the majority of Warframe players. 

[Oreades]

6 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

It's not like they haven't done this before. Selling Catalysts in the cash shop only, charging for revives, the whole Kubrow appearance gambling thing, etc. Sure, all of those have since been rolled back, but the mere fact that they were in the game in the first place gives you a window into DE's mentality.

Yes a window into a company that is trying to figure out how to make money off of a FREE game, those monsters. 

Oh and those absolute monsters, they added the Kubrow gambling and pulled it within a few days because they didn't like what it had turned into. I see a company that might have stumbled here or there but has for the most part made the right decisions without the need for the threat of legislation breathing down their necks. 

 

6 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

To start, your list of Elite Weeklies is very uneven. Doing 10 Nightmare missions is essentially trivial, and easily accessible to even new players. Doing 60 minutes of Kuva survival without using life support, on the other hand, not possible for some people. I have 1600 hours in Warframe at this point and I couldn't pull it off with the builds I have. That requires a premade, organised team or at the very least a pretty competent veteran player to pull off. 

*clears throat* LOL 

All that Kuva Survival required was a Nekros and literally anything else. My friend and I duoed that and for most of that I was watching Twitch while running around with my Khora. It wasn't challenging it was tedious AF. Thank god for two monitors. 

P.S. If you think we where organized, think again~

[Steel_Rook]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Yes a window into a company that is trying to figure out how to make money off of a FREE game, those monsters. Oh and those absolute monsters, they added the Kubrow gambling and pulled it within a few days because they didn't like what it had turned into. I see a company that might have stumbled here or there but has for the most part made the right decisions without the need for the threat of legislation breathing down their necks. 

I'm not blaming DE for wanting to make money. I'm just saying that they aren't above pushing some pretty aggressive monetisation practices onto their consumers. The majority of them have been rolled back, as I said, but the fact that they existed in the first place is telling. Thus, when a system is released which looks, feels and smells like psychological manipulation, I'm going to call it what it is. If DE want to roll it back - and they have, to a not insignificant extent - then great. I'm certainly not going to criticise them for it. However, this is a mistake they keep making over and over again, and that too is not insignificant.

 

[Tenno76856]

Everything is subjective. For a very grindy game sure feels like plenty whinge about this or that. Its all free. Rewards are reasonable albeit some worth getting. Others not so. Some of tasks are boring. Some difficult to get. Unless you close to doing given area (rapolyst or silver grove in my case).

I find Nightwave is ok (wolf was really bad choice in first season though). Some rewards coule be better ie .. Forma  thing x 3... Then getting forma bundle x3 as a reward. Come on.... Really?.lot of people also are not keen on weapon skins or helmets as cred offerings....

[Caripillar]

10 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

To start, your list of Elite Weeklies is very uneven. Doing 10 Nightmare missions is essentially trivial, and easily accessible to even new players. Doing 60 minutes of Kuva survival without using life support, on the other hand, not possible for some people. I have 1600 hours in Warframe at this point and I couldn't pull it off with the builds I have. That requires a premade, organised team or at the very least a pretty competent veteran player to pull off. Hell, 5 Sorties is arguably even worse. Not only does it take 5 full days to pull off, but 1 Sortie is substantially more difficult than 2 Nightmare missions, regardless of context.

Again, as i said, the list is relative and meant as an illustration of the point. You and every other salty veteran on the forums could argue for days about what is classified as 'Elite' and has 'challenge' and that's something I do not want to touch with a ten foot pole. I'm just throwing out examples of what people have complained about as being either tedious (so it should reward more standing if you actually chunk through it) or considered as out of reach and too challenging for new players unless taxied by friends (like 60min kuva survival).

10 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

If you want to go with the system you're proposing, then Nightwave HAS to have a Weekly Standing cap. That is to say, the maximum Nightwave Standing you can earn per week is capped at some value reasonable for mere mortals, and those pursuing Elite Challenges will simply be able to hit that cap faster and with fewer missions. Status quo is preserved, efficient players get to match it more easily and nobody gets left behind. That's the only way I'm willing to accept having these stupid-high-difficult challenges that most people - judging by the overwhelmingly negative response to Season 1 - simply don't like. And no, "just earn less Standing per week" is not a real choice. Warframe is not a job, nor is it a sport.

I think you might have missed the point where I said exactly that, and I even underlined it for people with difficulty reading my big wall of text.

14 hours ago, Caripillar said:

Rep cap of 36.5k remains unchanged, but you're now given the option to mix and match what challenges you want to do, up until the cap.

 

[LuckyCharm]

I think im missing the point of what nightwave is supposed to do in regards to entertainment. The "challenges" arent challenges, theyre chores. Challenges would be similar to the riven challenges, things to try and complete differently to normal play like the solo interception with a hobbled key etc. Or the maintain combo counter one. Things to level up your skill as a player. Not simply grind out already completed content over and over

[Steel_Rook]

10 hours ago, Caripillar said:

I think you might have missed the point where I said exactly that, and I even underlined it for people with difficulty reading my big wall of text.

I did miss that, you're right. My apologies. With that clarification, then no - I don't have an issue with what you've proposed.

[Ham_Grenabe]

11 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

I think im missing the point of what nightwave is supposed to do in regards to entertainment. The "challenges" arent challenges, theyre chores. Challenges would be similar to the riven challenges, things to try and complete differently to normal play like the solo interception with a hobbled key etc. Or the maintain combo counter one. Things to level up your skill as a player. Not simply grind out already completed content over and over

I believe the idea here is that DE expects that most of the player base would be doing those things normally in the course of a week. They'll be running 8+ waves of ESO. Or running at least 3 sabotage missions in a week, and finding caches because that's part of what you do in a sab mission. They'll run a few Nightmare missions. They'll killing enemies with a primary weapon. The nightwave bounties are tied to normal play. 

There are two problems here that DE has to contend with somehow:

1. Players, even new players, quickly learn what's "worth doing" in terms of rewards. Or they're told what's worth doing, here or elsewhere on the internet, so they stop doing Nightmare missions or stop cache hunting.

2. Veterans don't do those things anymore. Veterans do, what...arbitrations and Eidolons? Maybe we go spend a few hours in a survival mission? Hell, I don't even do Sorties anymore unless they're exactly the right set of "I don't have to use more than the W key and mouse button, or think at all" mission types. And we're also the one's out here saying "Don't do that, garbage rewards. Skip those, you don't even need it."

Frankly, I like the Nightwave challenges for the fact that they remind me of what I used to do. I don't love them all or anything, but they harken back to when the game put a LOT of things on my plate. 

Nightwave strikes me more like Darvo, or Xur in Destiny: they're not really for veteran players. We've already got everything, and if there's something we don't got, we probably don't need it. DE can address that I guess, although aside from "lay it all out and let us pick our bounties," I'm not sure how.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Mos-Eisley]

On 2019-07-31 at 6:38 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Agreed. I'm fine with putting some amount of work into Warframe, but I just don't like some of the challenges. Ideally, all challenges within a Tier (Daily / Weekly / Elite Weekly) should be roughly as difficult to accomplish as each other, so why not let me stick to just the ones I actually enjoy. For instance, I wouldn't touch Sanctuary Onslaught with a 10-foot pole, but I'm not opposed to running a few Sorties. I hate the Silver Grove Spectres with a passion, but I wouldn't be opposed to staying 30-40 minutes in a Survival mission (now that it's down from 60 "with friends"). The more choice you give me, the more motivated I am to actually pursue these challenges and stick around playing the game.

Exactly. 

I personally detest mining/fishing/conservation and do not even understand why these menial tasks are present in my horde shooter. I have no problem with the Sanctuary Onslaught, Sortie, Survival, etc. I was even completely on-board with the 60 min survival missions.  The  "challenges" are my biggest complaint with Nightwave, and why I personally prefer the old alert system to what we have now. Sure with the old alert system it may have been quite a while before the alert for the piece of equipment rolled around when you happened to be on line, but at least you were running missions, not fishing. The old alert system made sense from within the game..."Hey here are some bad guys doing things we must put a stop to", Nightwave does not. Why are we doing Nora's chores? Why does Nora want me to interact with my pet? Why does Nora want me to paint a glyph? Why does Nora want me to gild more things? 

I would like to see twice the number of available challenges each week, but retain the existing weekly standing cap. More variety for the weekly chores would go far to satisfy many of the complaints.

[Steel_Rook]

7 hours ago, Mos-Eisley said:

Sure with the old alert system it may have been quite a while before the alert for the piece of equipment rolled around when you happened to be on line, but at least you were running missions, not fishing.

Actually, could I rephrase you a little bit? I feel similar, but... The old Alerts system may have been heavily RNG, but at least you were running content you like and chose to do, rather than whatever the game generated for you. Sure, sometimes the game would generate all AWFUL Alerts with literally not a single one I wanted to run, but that was rare. For me, I hate Interception and tend to avoid Defence and Excavation. It was VERY rare that all available alerts were nothing but those three game modes. ONE of them was bound to be a Spy or a Survival or a Sabotage or even a Defection - all stuff I actually enjoy and want to do more of.

I've said this before - the problem with Nightwave is it's designed to push all of the people through all of the content, ensuring that all of the people will end up running content they don't like. I still want to see a version of Nightwave with a Weekly Standing Cap and FAR more challenges than needed to fill that cap AND with the ability to reroll at least one per day. If people end up min-maxing that to pick "speed run" challenges, let them. If that's what it takes to let everyone else play enjoyable content, then that's worth it. Plus, we all work with the same caps.

[Elyann]

On 2019-07-30 at 4:58 PM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This season is much tamer than last season due to feedback, and I'm concerned about next season.  I want Nightwave to reward us for going and doing stuff, which seems antithetical to many voices on the forums.

Over the course of my time reading Nightwave complaints for the season on both Reddit and the forums, including serious replies to threads that were originally jokes, I've found complaints about the following challenges:

Bullet jumping.

Complete X sorties.

The Profit Taker.

The Ropalolyst.

Silver Grove.

Gilding.

Formaing.

Invasions.

Syndicate missions.

Capture missions.

Synthesizing Simaris targets.

Lua puzzle rooms.

30 minutes of survival.

20 waves of defense.

Animal captures.

Fishing.

Mining.

Bounties.

And amusingly, I've noticed some people coming out of the woodwork who extol the virtues of the alert system, how earning 10,000 credits for a level 10 exterminate was rewarding or Nitain being available only at certain hours was fine.

There are just certain people who do not want to actually do anything in your game.  At some point, please cut off the hyperbolic shrieks from your actionable feedback.

I have a newer player in my clan, and I'm helping another clan of new players.  None of them want everything in the game handed to them, none of them have had complaints about Nightwave.  Almost all the complaints I've seen are from self-described veterans who should have no issue completing this content.

Please, do not cater to a minority of people who refuse to play the game.

Allow me to disagree.

It is true that this season is much less grindy and that's why I haven't complained about it so far but what we are talking about is a new system that came to replace the older alerts system and whose purpouse was to be more newbie friendly while at the same time being just as grindy as the old one ( aka , one mission and poof...here's your catalyst ) ; as you have seen this is clearly not the case.
Nightwave is not newbie friendly ( good luck hunting Profit Taker as a MR 5 ) , it doesn't give you immediate access to rewards , it is not veteran friendly either and I will soon enter in detail about explaining why.
As a MR 26-27 player I may simply just NOT NEED to fish , mine , do bounties , catch animals , gild stuff , do profit taker , do invasions and so on anymore....I've already obtained all the stuff I needed from those , I instead would need to focus on other stuff such as farming for kuva or for arcanes , focus , other mats . As such these tasks are simply just a waste of time to me , they do not allow me to do what I need and force me into doing other ( futile ) activities if I want to get some rewards that before this system's implementation I could have got by doing a 5 minutes mission. 

The point isn't that "I don't want to play the game" , the matter is that I don't want to waste my time doing tasks I don't need. This game is , as you know , already based on a costant grind and as such being efficient is very important.


 

[(PSN)b4biiface24]

On 2019-07-30 at 9:58 AM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This season is much tamer than last season due to feedback, and I'm concerned about next season.  I want Nightwave to reward us for going and doing stuff, which seems antithetical to many voices on the forums.

Over the course of my time reading Nightwave complaints for the season on both Reddit and the forums, including serious replies to threads that were originally jokes, I've found complaints about the following challenges:

Bullet jumping.

Complete X sorties.

The Profit Taker.

The Ropalolyst.

Silver Grove.

Gilding.

Formaing.

Invasions.

Syndicate missions.

Capture missions.

Synthesizing Simaris targets.

Lua puzzle rooms.

30 minutes of survival.

20 waves of defense.

Animal captures.

Fishing.

Mining.

Bounties.

And amusingly, I've noticed some people coming out of the woodwork who extol the virtues of the alert system, how earning 10,000 credits for a level 10 exterminate was rewarding or Nitain being available only at certain hours was fine.

There are just certain people who do not want to actually do anything in your game.  At some point, please cut off the hyperbolic shrieks from your actionable feedback.

I have a newer player in my clan, and I'm helping another clan of new players.  None of them want everything in the game handed to them, none of them have had complaints about Nightwave.  Almost all the complaints I've seen are from self-described veterans who should have no issue completing this content.

Please, do not cater to a minority of people who refuse to play the game.

They'll just have to wait for big content and be patient like me. I have mostly everything. But still find new things to do. 

[MrInubis]

7 hours ago, Elyann said:

Allow me to disagree.

It is true that this season is much less grindy and that's why I haven't complained about it so far but what we are talking about is a new system that came to replace the older alerts system and whose purpouse was to be more newbie friendly while at the same time being just as grindy as the old one ( aka , one mission and poof...here's your catalyst ) ; as you have seen this is clearly not the case.
Nightwave is not newbie friendly ( good luck hunting Profit Taker as a MR 5 ) , it doesn't give you immediate access to rewards , it is not veteran friendly either and I will soon enter in detail about explaining why.
As a MR 26-27 player I may simply just NOT NEED to fish , mine , do bounties , catch animals , gild stuff , do profit taker , do invasions and so on anymore....I've already obtained all the stuff I needed from those , I instead would need to focus on other stuff such as farming for kuva or for arcanes , focus , other mats . As such these tasks are simply just a waste of time to me , they do not allow me to do what I need and force me into doing other ( futile ) activities if I want to get some rewards that before this system's implementation I could have got by doing a 5 minutes mission. 

The point isn't that "I don't want to play the game" , the matter is that I don't want to waste my time doing tasks I don't need. This game is , as you know , already based on a costant grind and as such being efficient is very important.


Yes because profit taker and kuva survival were the only missions besides there are other players , not only mr1 and 27. MR26 and mr27 dont need anything so your point of not needing xyz is just stupid. Any activity is boring, tedious and uninteresting according to this forum. And what rewards you wanted? You cry all the time that you have everything so alerts gave you literally nothing. The special ones? We still get alerts for those. You want to cherry pick parts of the game that you feel like doing and want to be rewarded for it. The entitlement is off the charts.  You are not willing to put effort then you shall get nothing. Thats the only reasonable option. Giving like 1 reroll token a week to get 1 new random mission? Fine. But giving you option to do whatever you fell like? Hell no.

[Dazreiello]

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ok, I cant find a way to get rid of these spoilers I accidentally clicked...

Anyway, I honestly have no problem with challenge myself, being a somewhat newer player still. Though I will admit, the change from 1 hour to 30 minutes or shorter waves makes a lot of difference for people with spotty connection such as myself. My wifi card as it stands cannot promise it will make it to 1 whole hour and Disconnecting about 45+ minutes in, especially if it happened twice in a row, would be absolutely disheartening.

[Mos-Eisley]

13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I still want to see a version of Nightwave with a Weekly Standing Cap and FAR more challenges than needed to fill that cap AND with the ability to reroll at least one per day. If people end up min-maxing that to pick "speed run" challenges, let them. If that's what it takes to let everyone else play enjoyable content, then that's worth it. Plus, we all work with the same caps.

This is my hope for Nightwave 3. It seems a perfect solution, with no downside. Though, and this is a completely different discussion, I still do not understand why we are doing these things for Nora. There are far to many of these nonsensical things that are tossed into Warframe that seem completely out of place (see framefighter)

[Pizzarugi]

While on average, some of these complaints are pretty silly. It's not hard to do a 30 minute survival for instance, but there's a few on your list that are just there as filler, or completely unnecessary.

On 2019-07-30 at 8:58 AM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Bullet jumping.

This is an example of filler objectives. While bullet jumping is normal, the amount you need to do in a day often requires you do nothing except do some tiny, pointless bullet jumps instead of running to the objective. It's unnecessary.

On 2019-07-30 at 8:58 AM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Gilding.

Useful for people who still haven't made a kitgun or zaw, but is a waste of time and resources for people who built, gilded, and mastered them all.

On 2019-07-30 at 8:58 AM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Formaing.

Same issue as the above. If you're in the middle of doing it for your preferred weapons and frames, this is good, but is otherwise a waste of time and precious forma for people who don't want to waste it on unleveling and releveling something again just for an objective.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Anything that upsets elitists can only be a good thing, which means i hope they make it much easier on the next rotation.

[Gofretko]

On 2019-07-30 at 2:58 PM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This season is much tamer than last season due to feedback, and I'm concerned about next season

Seems like you need a life. Also, Warframe gives you some amount of hard, or at least, not-easy-to-one-shot content. Do that and let the casuals play and farm in peace.

If you need a huge challenge, buy a mountain bike, get out there, and try beating some records.