Banshee Survivability needs overhaul

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

CC got out of control because enemy damage scaling was absurd at the time. You could root a lot of problems to enemy damage scaling. The massive eHP gap between frames we have now is another. The core mechanics just didn't work right in the first place but they kept building on top. Now it's a massive pile to sort through.

not that i'm even really sure that was a problem anyways. stopping the passage of time for the Enemies was very safe, but also slow. so.... almost perfect? you could take the safe route but your Mission would take many times longer, or people that can/want to push harder... can.

instead of the mess that we get dumped in our laps now where only two types of Abilities are useful, all the rest might as well not exist, and sans-Ability EHP is basically the most important thing. just what even.
i'm sure i'm preaching to the choir when i grumble that this mess started when the game tried to go 'anti-meta' on CC. and then once that well dried up, going 'anti-meta' on the next thing.

Edited August 20, 2019 by taiiat

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

OP, i made a post in the General tab suggesting a defensive system that can help squishy frames, instead of just giving them buffs (that could eventually make them a problem in the future). 

If you want to check it out. I wasn't planning to post it, but you inspired me to do so.

[000l000]

Banshee has a lot of CCs but the only thing she's lacking of is high duration ones. Enemies are staggered, ragdolled or stunned but never impaired enough for a long time. Silence can work if enemies didn't spot you but it may not work on a team gameplay.

People are complaining a lot about low health low armor frames survivability, Nyx for example. When i'm entering a tileset i'm definitely casting an augmented psychic bolt and no one is firing at me since they're all stunned for a decade. Banshee can't do that, she can survive a second or two but her kit isn't helping for a longer fight.

Spamming her 4th can help though until you can't kill a thing at higher levels. So maybe her CCs could have longer durations, enemies stunned by Silence could be stunned slightly longer or maybe her scream could lower enemies speed too, such things would help without changing much her whole kit.

[Xzorn]

Like I mentioned before: The end of a Solo Banshee run always ends the same way; a Nullifier shoots her out of the air.

She can mitigate the problem by using Radiation status, jumping, aim-glide, line of sight, everything in the book but she cannot actually solve it.

This is an example of one in many enemy design choices that murder frames. Quite literally. Playing Banshee works fine long as these designs aren't in place. She essentially makes the game turbo speed. Her CC's don't last but she kills even faster so they don't need to last. It's up to the player to act quicker than most frames. There are also loadout tactics involved with Banshee. Don't pick a weapon that requires good aim because she needs about 3/4 of your attention for movement, casting and dodging.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 4 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

Like I mentioned before: The end of a Solo Banshee run always ends the same way; a Nullifier shoots her out of the air.

Or tracking projectiles shot from behind blind angles intercepting you mid air in a completely bullS#&$ way. 

 

Tbh the best buff banshee could get right now would be to remove the casting locks from her 1 and 2,making the 1 handed free form casts, and maybe a range increase on her 1

Edited August 20, 2019 by Autongnosis

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Don't pick a weapon that requires good aim because she needs about 3/4 of your attention for movement, casting and dodging.

Gawd, this pisses me off though.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

19 hours ago, Xzorn said:

The end of every Banshee Solo story is a Nullifier shooting her in the face. She's still a primary pick of any long run group though.

If you’re allowing enough time to have a Nullifier one-tap you on the field as a Banshee, you’re too slow. There’s also plenty of weapons in-game to strip Nullifier bubbles extremely quickly, and you can slide into a Nullifier and perform a high-risk melee attack to OHKO Nullifiers if possible.

The end story with Banshee is your comfort zone with balancing how you play her and adjusting your range stat appropriately so that your CQC with Silence in effect isn’t going to backstab you because you stood in one area for too long during Silence’s 3-second stun duration.

Since the introduction of the Skiajati, it kinda helped with Banshee’s aggro-drop during that brief window when you can perform a standing finisher on an enemy affected by Savage Silence. Arcane Trickery also helps for being able to survive just a bit longer if you can proc it on Finisher.

I might try doing a solo run with Banshee and Cyanex. That gun is very good with its AoE, slight homing, and fire rate. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Tbh the best buff banshee could get right now would be to remove the casting locks from her 1 and 2,making the 1 handed free form casts, and maybe a range increase on her 1

The mid-air casting helped a bit since you can cast Sonic Boom before landing and somewhat skip the animation limits with good timing but it's hardly consistent.

Would be nice to have Natural Talent not be mandatory for Solo on her.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Gawd, this pisses me off though.

Yea, it's a bit counter intuitive to her Sonar design and makes Resonance mandatory even without the bug but it's the sad truth.

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

If you’re allowing enough time to have a Nullifier one-tap you on the field as a Banshee, you’re too slow. There’s also plenty of weapons in-game to strip Nullifier bubbles extremely quickly, and you can slide into a Nullifier and perform a high-risk melee attack to OHKO Nullifiers if possible.

It is not possible to drop a Nully bubble before the Nullifier can get a shot off. At some point that shot will land and there's nothing she can do about it.

The typical anti-Nullifier methods like Zenistar with some line of sight also don't really work for Banshee since she's required to be highly mobile.

The only 100% solution to the problem of Nullifiers is to not let them shoot / shoot a barrier or make them shoot something else consistently.

That's why they're such horrible design. It's not their Anti-ability. It's that most can't stop their eagle-eye Lanka thus eHP meta.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

If anything, as you said, they should give her abilities another look and expand on her theme as offensive CC canon that relies on her abilities to function. For years I've been wanting them to look into creating a simple synergies that tie all of her abilities more together without forcing the player to button spam(Saryn's 1st rework). It'd be so easy to enhance her survivability while doing so, too. My general suggestions always centered around the following:

• Make Sonic Boom always hit a weakspot(takes care of the lackluster damage)
• Make enemies affected by silence more vulnerable to impact and KD procs, scale proc chance with strength(base 50%)
• Increase enemy recovery time from staggers and knockdowns under Silence based on power strength(200%=twice as long)
• Give Quake a focus mode that drains more energy, and gradually reduces the AOE to a cone, but increases likelihood of hitting enemy weakspots

That, along with a much needed casting unlock for her first three abilities, would breathe some serious fresh air into her without replacing an ability, lowering her skill ceiling or changing her playstyle.

 

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Everyone wants some boring form of DR these days

DE should really stop adding ways to hold our hand...because look what happens? We end up wanting more and more

In the end the game becomes a boring dressing game with little to no content and everything does 1's and 2's of damage to you while you deal millions 

 

[kgabor]

14 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Don't pick a weapon that requires good aim because she needs about 3/4 of your attention for movement, casting and dodging.

It's not even as much of a tunnel vision-sort of problem as an issue that lies in stats, weapons that require a good aim tend to be single target, low RoF weapons that aren't great for horde killing as they are currently.

 

14 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

Tbh the best buff banshee could get right now would be to remove the casting locks from her 1 and 2,making the 1 handed free form casts, and maybe a range increase on her 1

A range increase on Sonic Boom would be great.

 

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Give Quake a focus mode that drains more energy, and gradually reduces the AOE to a cone, but increases likelihood of hitting enemy weakspots

If it wouldn't be centered around Banshee, but more like a mark on the minimap type of ability that requires precision, this could be pretty good and would also synergise with Sonar and even Silence.

[Umquaptovis]

I like banshee alot so from my tile playing her how about less survivability and even greater damage and range.

She is not like other frames she has sass, and she will tell you you are bad when you are bad. You do not stand in the open with a banshee. You can not just sit still and take a break with a banshee. The whole world is out to get you. On the other hand she has all the tools she needs to smear the potato people accrost the map.

She dose need changes like a new 4 and having her casting animations changed.

 

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, kgabor said:

It's not even as much of a tunnel vision-sort of problem as an issue that lies in stats, weapons that require a good aim tend to be single target, low RoF weapons that aren't great for horde killing as they are currently.

Sorta yea.

At higher levels (300+) the single target weapons become more useful. AoE is still good but my pre-rework Nyx in particular loved Synapse and with no buffs it vaporizes lvl 200 Napalms in a second. So kinda worth aiming with certain weapons. If you have the luxury of time. Banshee never does though.