We Need A Lore/Main Story Overhaul

[TheKazz91]

Ok so first I want anyone that isn't 100% confident that they know the actual event timeline of Warframe starting from the Zariman ten zero incident to the end of The Sacrifice to raise your hand. Ok EVERYONE can put their hands down now. 

Joking aside I feel like this is a major pain point in Warframe. I get that not everyone really cares that much about the lore and the story but I think that not having it readily available is a big mistake on DE's part. This is in large part a symptom of Warframe's conception as a small scope minimum viable product that need to ship in under a year and everything just being layered on top of that initial hastily constructed foundation. At this point though I feel like this needs to be addressed. Warframe has a very unique, interesting, and nuanced lore and world but so much of it is fragmented and disorganized that it is virtually impossible to actually digest that lore without putting a serious amount of effort into it which is a real shame. After watching some youtube videos that actually explain it mostly because I didn't even know where to start in piecing it all together it really has turned into something that I think is worth learning because it's genuinely good fiction. 

This gets back to a long standing issue with DE has acknowledged with the new player experience but I think it goes even further than that as I'd wager there are a fair number of people that have hundreds of hours in the game and have taken down eidolons dozens of times that STILL have very little idea of what actually happened during/before/immediately after the old war, the fall of the Orokin empire, and thats not even mentioning events that literally happen DURING THE GAME while you're completing the star chart. I am sure I am not the only one that was a little confused when Alad V showed up on Eris after we killed him on Jupiter ditto for Vor reappearing in the void. 

So here are some of my recommendations on how to fix this. 

1. More story telling through cut scenes instead of random chatter going on during the mission. 
2. More foreshadowing and introducing characters BEFORE they are immediately relevant to the what is currently happening. 
3. Missionas that are part of the main story quests should not be procedural generated. You can still use the same tile sets but missions that are part of the main story line should have a set configuration that ensures the best possible experience for the players that are seeing that tile set for the first time. 
4. Each planet in the star chart has it's own story arch and quest in the main quest line with a clear cut beginning, middle, and end for it's main nodes. This means you automatically start the quest for that planet as you queue up for your first mission on that planet this plays a cut scene which introduces the main antagonist for that planet which is generally going to be the assassination target of that planet and explains something about the lore and history of that planet and why you should care possibly by involving other factions such as syndicates. There is a cut scene for some turning point and a cut scene after the assassination mission or whatever the end of that quest line happens to be that will tie that in and foreshadow future events or what ever maybe it's just Alad V shaking his fist and saying "and I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling Tenno". 
5. More flash back style quests like what we get in the sacrifice that actually take players back to show them the history rather than having to read it out of some cephalon fragment. I'd love a quest that that actually shows the Orokin designing the sentients, the old war fighting along side the dax, the betrayal, even just simply the Orokin empire before everything went to hell. Instead of constantly telling me that "The Grineer used to be builders" Give me some flash back missions that actually just shows how they were basically just slaves to the Orokin empire. These are all easy enough to work into the lore. Just say there is some Cephalon whose mission is to objectively record and preserve all historical events and teach others about those events. They can say something like "I've created this simulation of events based on data I've gathered over centuries, your welcome!" 
6. Make me care about syndicates beyond just well these guys give me Ivara augments so I guess I'll go with them? Players should have a good idea of who the syndicates are and what they stand for BEFORE being expected to pick one of them to join. Heck I still don't really understand who the Arbiters of Hexus, Cephalon Suda, or the Parin Sequence are or why I should give a damn about them. Even though Cephalon Suda is heavily involved with the quest for Octavia and the the Arbiters of Hexus have Arbitrations I don't get why they made Arbitrations. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by TheKazz91

[Loza03]

I'm not sure about a full overhaul - mainly, I don't think everything about the world building needs to get exposited directly, nor does each planet need a full-on story arc - but can we please not have it so that half the plot is completely inaccessible? Maybe?

 

Pretty much all of the story prior to the quest system is entirely inaccessible or only accessible via small bites or references. Including parts that are needed for the plot. Tyl Regor is a major character in Natah, referencing Tubemen of Regor, an event most players never took part in. Most players can look over the starchart and see dead relays everywhere, but have no idea where they came from - and new players won't know that Strata was destroyed and rebuilt. The Archwing quest, which is the introduction most players have to fomorians, references Sling-stone. And don't get me started on Patient Zero being unlocked after the Second Dream, despite happening first...

Edited September 8, 2019 by Loza03
Fomorians

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I found a lot of the lore in bits and pieces reading it mainly from codex scans. I would love a quick summary of past events that are now inaccessible. And there's the wiki if I ever need to look up something with plotholes.

[Shaburanigud]

I agree.

While not all of the story needs to be up on a silver platter, I do think that it should at least be chronologically sound.
Such as, we killed Captain Vor on Mercury. Why the hell did he come back in the void? Why the hell is he still with Sargas Ruk?
Who the hell are the grineers? Why is everyone after us?
When the hell did we help Alad V? What the hell is he doing infested later?
When did all these factions reach out to us?

And the questions go on and on. Enough to make a new player quit.
Even Dark soul wasn't this unfriendly.

Everyone knows that warframe has one of the worst early games and one of the reasons is the lack of a coherent flow or story.
Major events, introduction to enemies and progressing through the star chart should at least give a chronological order so that the player can slowly immerse oneself to it.

This is what I liked about Fortuna. It has a coherent story.
You're introduced and get to like and interact with new characters.
You get immersed to the residents who live there with the stories and troubles they have.
You actually see the difference and progression of what your actions have caused. 
This really should be applied to the star chart as well.
(Just hope they give us good closure and ending when the 3rd Orb mother comes out)

[Steel_Rook]

The narrative in Warframe is an utter farce. The underlying fiction is absolutely solid, don't get me wrong, but it's presentation is some of the worst, most confusing, most fractured I've ever seen. I get wanting to hold off on major reveals so you can spring them on us as a TWEEST!, but giving players a fundamental understanding of the fictional world and at least some knowledge of the basic terminology is absolutely necessary. Stacking so much story in old events which no longer run and making that unavailable for current players is equally problematic.

[LuckyCharm]

Been wanting lore in game for years. We dont even get it in flavor text or anything most times. 

Picked up destiny 2 the other day (cus i was bored out of my mind waiting for content to drop which i could use my high lvl stuff in. ) and i do sorta have to say its nice having a game that tries to storytell. With characters that are likeable and fleshed out. I even found myself LOVING the random AI failsafe. She was hilarious while also continuing the story. Its seriously making me consider dropping money in and getting the dlcs. Warframe...doesnt anymore. What am i going to do with more powercreepy weapons. I already comfortably one shot all the starchart and clear any other content with ease. If they had a story though that carried you through and made you care about the cause, then id feel much more invested into wanting those power items to continue that fight

[TheKazz91]

Right so let me clarify when I say that every planet should have its own story arch I'm not as much thinking a chapter of a book as much as I am a "previously on dragonball z" like it doesn't need to have all the depth and detail that would be needed to fully cover everything but It should give players a good idea of who they are fighting, why they should fight them, and how that effects other factions. These planetary mini-archs should introduce all the main characters both friendly and opposed to the Tenno. Having each planet have its own mini story arch just lets them again give players an understanding of why we are fighting there and gives DE an chance to sprinkle in some of the lore that comes from content that is no longer available and patch things up. They can also pull in other factions and characters that are asking us to do things so it doesn't just seem like we are taking orders from the Lotus who is as far as we know and have context for is a psychotic genocidal maniac that just has a grudge against the grineer and corpus. Make it feel like we are actually helping other factions like all the syndicates. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by TheKazz91

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

That would require effort from DE, so it won't happen. 

[Gentleman_Bird]

Something needs to be done about Alad V for sure. From a new player's perspective, the timeline of events is all jumbled, with many pieces of the puzzle missing from events long past

[Biddion]

On 2019-09-08 at 11:51 AM, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

I found a lot of the lore in bits and pieces reading it mainly from codex scans. I would love a quick summary of past events that are now inaccessible. And there's the wiki if I ever need to look up something with plotholes.

I bet you can find YouTube vids on lore.

[Bioboygamer]

So much this.

This was a huge problem for me early on, as a pretty new player. Saya's Vigil is particularly bad about this:

Quote

"Let's revisit the plains at night, but be careful of the Eidolons."

What are Eidolons?

"Oh, they're shattered pieces of a Sentient."

Wait, what's a Sentient?

"Oh, they were the enemies of the Orokin in the old war."

What's an Orokin?!

"We don't have time for this. Let's hurry, Tenno."

What does Tenno even mean?!

"Gara was the guardian of the Unum."

The W H A T ? !

Seriously, don't use phrases in dialogue that haven't even been explained to the player yet. There should be some kind of glossary or list of terminology to get players familiar with what NPCs are going to be talking about. 

At one point, I asked in a Relay why people called me "Tenno", and was informed that it would be a spoiler to tell me, which likely did more harm than good, all things considered. A starting glossary wouldn't even have to be 100% accurate - It could explain things in a way that was technically true, but not the whole story. 

Theoretical example:

Tenno: Mighty warrior-sages, skilled in all forms of weaponry and bound by an ancient code of honor. Tenno are masters of both stealthy infiltration and open combat, and are particularly renowned for their swift, agile movement. The recent awakening has resulted in an influx of Tenno, who now fight against those who would claim the power of the Warframes for themselves.

Complete The Second Dream to reveal more.

Spoiler

In reality, the Tenno are the survivors of the Zariman Ten-Zero, an Orokin ship that was pulled into the Void during transport. When the ship was recovered, the only remaining passengers were the children that had been aboard, who now possessed strange void-based powers. These children would turn the tide of the Old War, as their Transference abilities allowed them to pilot the mighty Warframes from the safety of the Void, a place their Sentient foes could not reach.

 

[TheKazz91]

50 minutes ago, Bioboygamer said:

A starting glossary wouldn't even have to be 100% accurate - It could explain things in a way that was technically true, but not the whole story. 

Theoretical example:

Tenno: Mighty warrior-sages, skilled in all forms of weaponry and bound by an ancient code of honor. Tenno are masters of both stealthy infiltration and open combat, and are particularly renowned for their swift, agile movement. The recent awakening has resulted in an influx of Tenno, who now fight against those who would claim the power of the Warframes for themselves.

Complete The Second Dream to reveal more.

  Reveal hidden contents

In reality, the Tenno are the survivors of the Zariman Ten-Zero, an Orokin ship that was pulled into the Void during transport. When the ship was recovered, the only remaining passengers were the children that had been aboard, who now possessed strange void-based powers. These children would turn the tide of the Old War, as their Transference abilities allowed them to pilot the mighty Warframes from the safety of the Void, a place their Sentient foes could not reach.

 

I agree with this and this would be nice but ultimately but if need to stop playing the game to go read a glossary in order to understand what is going on while I'm playing the  something has already failed. 

I do agree that some of these things should be covered in cut scenes early on. Personally I think setting up the basics of the world should all be covered as part of the intro quest. Like you are saying it doesn't need to cover everything or even really be accurate information it just need to be relavent information that is close enough. 

[Bioboygamer]

Just now, TheKazz91 said:

I agree with this and this would be nice but ultimately but if need to stop playing the game to go read a glossary in order to understand what is going on while I'm playing the  something has already failed. 

I do agree that some of these things should be covered in cut scenes early on. Personally I think setting up the basics of the world should all be covered as part of the intro quest. Like you are saying it doesn't need to cover everything or even really be accurate information it just need to be relavent information that is close enough. 

Yeah, exactly. I finished Stolen Dreams, and was all excited because finally there was an opportunity for Lotus to start explaining what was going on and who all these people were.

And then it was just like "Well, Vor is dead. Sooooooo... Bye! Good luck!"

Like, I thought we just didn't have time to explain anything, what with the whole Ascaris and self-destruct thing! I figured Lotus was gonna give me some context now that circumstances weren't so dire, but instead she just peaces out, despite being fully aware that I'm missing enormous amounts of my memories! 

 

As far as a glossary taking you out of the game, we already have the Codex, but an explanation of who the Corpus are coming from multiple fragments on Europa is far too little, far too late. There should be basic definitions available from the start, with more detailed and obscure information being added by scanning fragments, enemies, and completing quests.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

At least some form of chronological timeline could be added to explain the occurrence of events, allowing players to NOT wonder why Alad V has that strain of infestation prior to his assassination. Lore is an important aspect of this game that is currently feeling neglected in these dry times before Empyrean, and while Nightwave throws in fragments of info, the system itself is tied to a boring grind. The Leverian is far too new & underdeveloped to go into detail about certain lore elements, and quests themselves are in short supply these days, I'm just not sure if DE cares anymore.

[Bioboygamer]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)IndianChiefJeff said:

At least some form of chronological timeline could be added to explain the occurrence of events, allowing players to NOT wonder why Alad V has that strain of infestation prior to his assassination. Lore is an important aspect of this game that is currently feeling neglected in these dry times before Empyrean, and while Nightwave throws in fragments of info, the system itself is tied to a boring grind. The Leverian is far too new & underdeveloped to go into detail about certain lore elements, and quests themselves are in short supply these days, I'm just not sure if DE cares anymore.

I'm sure DE cares - I just suspect that they've got a lot on their plate. They've said that Railjack was something that they've wanted to do for a long time, so of course they're going to be putting a lot of attention into that. I'm a very new player, so I don't really have anything to compare with, but whatever problems are happening, I doubt it's due to a lack of care on DE's part. Feature creep, creative dry spell, flawed priorities, sure, but not a lack of care.

[TheKazz91]

22 minutes ago, Bioboygamer said:

I'm sure DE cares - I just suspect that they've got a lot on their plate. They've said that Railjack was something that they've wanted to do for a long time, so of course they're going to be putting a lot of attention into that. I'm a very new player, so I don't really have anything to compare with, but whatever problems are happening, I doubt it's due to a lack of care on DE's part. Feature creep, creative dry spell, flawed priorities, sure, but not a lack of care.

I can agree with this. Given an infinite budget and resources I think this would have already been addressed. DE has just kinda got them selves into a situation where they are between an rock and a hard spot. Most of their revenue comes from older players that want them to succeed and be able to make more content. From my experience trying to get other people into Warframe the majority of new players try it a bounce off well before they get a chance to get invested and want to spend any money. So they need to keep creating new content to keep older players around which is where their money comes from but they need to rework old content to get new players to get to that point. So if they have to focus on one or the other are they going to focus on where they're already making money or where there *MIGHT* be more money available on the table?

[Bioboygamer]

42 minutes ago, TheKazz91 said:

I can agree with this. Given an infinite budget and resources I think this would have already been addressed. DE has just kinda got them selves into a situation where they are between an rock and a hard spot. Most of their revenue comes from older players that want them to succeed and be able to make more content. From my experience trying to get other people into Warframe the majority of new players try it a bounce off well before they get a chance to get invested and want to spend any money. So they need to keep creating new content to keep older players around which is where their money comes from but they need to rework old content to get new players to get to that point. So if they have to focus on one or the other are they going to focus on where they're already making money or where there *MIGHT* be more money available on the table?

So DE needs something big and complex enough for veteran players to sink their teeth into, but exciting and flashy enough to draw in new players...

Sounds an awful lot like Railjack to me. Once that's done, I suspect we'll see a lot of longstanding problems get addressed.

[TheKazz91]

53 minutes ago, Bioboygamer said:

So DE needs something big and complex enough for veteran players to sink their teeth into, but exciting and flashy enough to draw in new players...

Sounds an awful lot like Railjack to me. Once that's done, I suspect we'll see a lot of longstanding problems get addressed.

The thing is I am not sure how much appeal that has to new players. For new players its a bit more variety and a whole nother branch of progession on top of a mountain of progression they already have to climb as it is. I think rail jack is firmly for old players and in a perfect world that plus the new war adds enough content to keep veteran players content long enough that it frees up DE to focus on new player retention and we all get our happily ever after of Warframe.

[TenebraeAeterna]

The sheer volume of things that could, and need, to be done in order to make the lore cohesive in this game is astounding. In the same vein, some of the ambiguity actually makes it feel more like a living world though... We don't really know what the hell is going on in the world around us, so the chaotic sort of haphazard mess, ironically, does make it feel a bit more realistic.

That's not to say that we don't need the lore fixed...just that some of that ambiguity and mess should also remain.

[TheKazz91]

I agree that they don't need every bit of the lore that is right in your face. Just the basics that should be common knowledge in the lore. Like I doubt that if you were just an average citizen in the Warframe universe that you wouldn't know about the Orokin and the old war. You may not know everything about it but you would know something about bit even it it was just rumors. That is the kind of stuff that should be explicitly shown and explained through cut scenes. 

[5H4DE]

One of the biggest issues about it is that a lot of lore is locked behind one-time events from the past, events that aren't coming back anymore and DE still hasn't found a way to reintroduce the story they told.

[TheKazz91]

 

9 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

One of the biggest issues about it is that a lot of lore is locked behind one-time events from the past, events that aren't coming back anymore and DE still hasn't found a way to reintroduce the story they told.

I think one of the best ways this could be achieved with minimal effort on DE's part is to introduce a new cephalon that just wants to collect history and show it off. It would actually be kinda cool to tie in this new cephalon with a new kind of cephalon fragments where as you scan then they start to unlock missions in this new cephalons simulacrum and you can play through these as if you were part of that historical event. You could even have a "synchronization"  score that represents how well your actions align with the cannon for those historical events. Basically just the whole premise of Assassin's Creed but controlled by some quirky AI personally.

[5H4DE]

14 minutes ago, TheKazz91 said:

 

I think one of the best ways this could be achieved with minimal effort on DE's part is to introduce a new cephalon that just wants to collect history and show it off. It would actually be kinda cool to tie in this new cephalon with a new kind of cephalon fragments where as you scan then they start to unlock missions in this new cephalons simulacrum and you can play through these as if you were part of that historical event. You could even have a "synchronization"  score that represents how well your actions align with the cannon for those historical events. Basically just the whole premise of Assassin's Creed but controlled by some quirky AI personally.

I think I'd rather they expand that to Simaris instead of making a new Cephalon.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

DE would have to have team oriented coherent direction,  and stop designing by individual inspiration.

That said, as all over the place as the Digital Extremes studio is with thier game, and the fact it's been like this for literally yearsss, I believe there would need to be a lot of additional staff, maybe a whole other studio and some serious leadership changes in order to accomplish tangible coherent lore. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon if ever. Not as long a Steve is the creative director. They will forever be hotfixing and too busy updating the game on a fundamental and graphical level just to stay relevant. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove

[TheKazz91]

2 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

I think I'd rather they expand that to Simaris instead of making a new Cephalon.

Just the thing is that as far as I can tell the lore for cephalons is that they typically are very narrow in the scope of their tasks. Simaris is all about studying different life forms and doesn't much care for what those life forms actually do outside of basic capabilities and behavior. It's pretty much explicitly stated that most cephalons are dedicated to just one task so it wouldn't make sense with established lore to have Simaris managing what would essentially be a history museum. Not only that but even if they did make Simaris do it they would need to make some justification for why he suddenly cares about history. Besides Simaris is a $&*^ and I think it would be good to get a fresh personally in there. Maybe a crotchety slightly senile librarian that constantly reminds you to keep it down?

2 hours ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

DE would have to have team oriented coherent direction,  and stop designing by individual inspiration.

That said, as all over the place as the Digital Extremes studio is with thier game, and the fact it's been like this for literally yearsss, I believe there would need to be a lot of additional staff, maybe a whole other studio and some serious leadership changes in order to accomplish tangible coherent lore. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon if ever. Not as long a Steve is the creative director. They will forever be hotfixing and too busy updating the game on a fundamental and graphical level just to stay relevant. 

Yo let's not point fingers. If you wanna say that it's something that DE isn't good at prioritizing cool but let's not try to call out specific people. It's not helpful and if you want to actually see positive change and DE taking these sorts of concerns seriously pointing the finger at individual team members is probably the single fastest way to ensure that doesn't happen. True, there is no gurantee that DE will address these issues anyway but just like anyone else as soon as they see comments like this they just tune out and take the stance of "haters gonna hate" 

Edited September 11, 2019 by TheKazz91