New Player Asks: DE, Where Are You?

[(NSW)0nuku]

INTRO

I want to preface this by firstly saying I am a veteran by no definition. I picked this game up last September, MR9, just unlocked Sedna, only on my 250th login. This is all just opinions, bit of hearsay, and to be taken with a grain of salt. But I just gotta get it off my chest. Also, lots of reading. Feel free to skip to whatever relevant section you want.

Spoiler

 

I started this game because several friends recommended it to me. Free to play, tons of content, endless customization, fascinating story, and a great team behind it. I started up a new account on PC, then because my computer's not great, another one on Switch when it came out where I still play. I was intimidated by the huge system laid out before me, but I stuck with it because I trusted my friends. And I really wasn't disappointed once I got to the main story quests.

I hopped on the forums about that time because I found a couple bugs (it's a huge game, it's gonna happen, right?), and was told this was the best place to report them. I did, and if I even got a response it was typically "Yeah, I've seen this bug for months, DE's not gonna fix it." That didn't sound like the people I had been told about, the ones I started watching on their streams? 

 

PROBLEMS

Spoiler

 

As I read the forums more, I realized this game has some serious issues. And I'm not talking about a lack of "endgame" or even the multitude of bugs. Despite what I had been told, DE's not listening. And you know what, I really tried not to blame them. It's apparently a smaller studio, no EA, no Blizzard, who was surprised by the success of their pet project. Surely they had to love the community they had built, a community that gave them their success and their paychecks with no coaxing? It'd be fine if they weren't, as many studios nowadays don't, but to continue spreading the lies that they're here is just insulting. 

And to be honest, that's not the real issue. I would be fine with a studio ignoring a community's input if they had the experience and knowledge to continue making a good game. But I've been playing the game long enough to believe that DE doesn't know what they're doing. They've created a fantastic, beautiful power fantasy... for everyone but a few frames and weapons. There's a multitude of enemies... some of which have insane amounts of armor or stacking abilities that make them more durable than our super powerful frames can handle. Updates come out on a fairly consistent basis... only to have the next month's work repairing bugs a QA person could have seen in five minutes. They come up with brilliant ideas to improve the game's functionality... that get put on back burner for years only to be released significantly broken. They offer open community feedback before implementing drastic changes... only to do the exact opposite of the feedback they received on the basis they're "listening."

 

THE WHY

Spoiler

 

Now, there's all kinds of reasons why this might be. Like I said, it's a small studio burdened with a surprisingly successful game. It could be that they don't have the manpower to deliver on the promises they continue making. Is it just a small, close team that refuses to grow? Is the expense of hiring on new employees too much? I can't say they don't need them, even just to actually act as liaisons to the community, but certainly to push the content and bug fixes. 

Whatever the reason, I don't want to believe this small team just doesn't care about the game they've created. I really don't want to believe they're actively trying to drive their community standing and the game they created into the ground. I want to be able to help in whatever little way we can if they'll just let us.

 

THE COMMUNITY

Spoiler

 

DE, if you ever find this, you've built an awesome community around this game who's so helpful and considerate to one another and actively excited to see the game progress. College students like me give hard-earned money, of course for that new cosmetic, but also just because they want to help you succeed in what you've built. Countless people contribute ideas for the next Frame, weapon, or world, putting hours into illustrations and balance. Fan art of your designs and our own takes on them are spread across the internet. Despite the game's issues, this community has continued to grow.

If money is really the issue, I'd like to think I'm not the only one who would be willing to give more to see this game fully realized. Whether it's through just the coolest cosmetic I've ever seen, an active fundraiser, or even adding a price to the game, if I knew it was what you needed to succeed, I would do it.

DE, you've got a massive community, many of which, I dare say, play this game more than you do. There are countless suggestions and feedback threads on this forum alone freely offering problems they've found and ways to fix them, as well as inviting feedback of their own to perfect it for your consumption. If the game is to thrive, these suggestions need to be taken more seriously, as you've already reported to be doing. Good feedback should be read, acknowledged, and if it doesn't work, explained. The community that has given so much thought to this game deserves that much.

 

TL;DR

I love this game, but as time goes on I'm noticing more and more problems that all draw back to my feeling that DE isn't listening to the community as they say they are. And I personally feel that this connection to the community is what is required for the game to thrive in the future. There's so much knowledge and love here that is being trodden on rather than utilized.

I'm sorry for my rambling. Just know all of this is my personal feelings, in no way indicative of the wider community, and all out of my own love for the game and desire for it to be better. Thank you.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

im curious about what exactly has prompted you to come to this conclusion.

[Rawbeard]

DE is in London, Ontario

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a une heure, DeckChairVonBananaCamel a dit :

im curious about what exactly has prompted you to come to this conclusion.

No universal Vacuum 

Hema costs

No endgame

DE saying they will reduce the grind in 2014 and releasing Nightwave years later

Wasted content (Lunaro, Conclave, raids...)

Removing the Alerts which were flawed but still better than Grindwave

Host issues because of player hosting

Chat moderation issues

Censorship issues 

New players being completely lost 

Warframe reworks being complete misses (Mainly thinking about Ember and Zephyr)

Fortuna being PoE 2 for a huge part (Grinding the same tasks over and over again then never come back again except for specific activity such as Eidolons or Profit taker)

And I'm probably missing some stuff

Edit : Oh yeah, and the Archwing system that got completely ruined imo. At the beginning, the Archwing was pretty fun to use, although missions were pretty tedious. Then DE decided to implement their 360 system, making it feel like you're playing a rocket-rock and having you bump everywhere. They could have at least reverted it.

Edit 2 : I also feel that DE are disconnected from their own game. For example, even without playing the game, you cannot release K-Drive and think that it is a good system. As a mean of transport, it is very obviously inferior to the Archwing in all ways, and as a mean of fun, you have a few tricks that you can do to grind a reputation. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[(XBOX)RPColten]

1 hour ago, (NSW)0nuku said:

Just know all of this is my personal feelings, in no way indicative of the wider community, and all out of my own love for the game and desire for it to be better.

Right, so is that why you're 'rambling' about topics that you realistically have no context/information/idea about ie, 'endgame', 'DE's history of community feedback, development issues?

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)0nuku said:

I picked this game up last September, MR9, just unlocked Sedna, only on my 250th login.

 

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

yes there are some bugs in teh game that have been around for ages but these bugs are often caused with the player to player side of things not something DE can fix as they are a small company running a free game so having servers for gaming instances is hard. More so when every none open world mission  is not gonna be the same layout everyime.

DE is listening but alot of people are expecting to have DE listen to everyones demands an that is something very impossible to do as they want to appeal to as much of the fan base as possible while using there own judgement.
Many players want systems in the game that just are game breaking requests to something that just doesn't make any sense. If DE put in all these systems a person requests then guess what there be no new quests or items as they be having to change everything about the game just to do what everyone in the fanbase wants.
DE has listen to there community like with the sonicor when they changed soemthing about it
Hotfix 22.8.2

• Gave the Sonicor a bit of ‘oomph’ back by tweaking the ragdoll force to allow a more horizontal ragdoll as opposed to ragdolling in place. Does this bring it back to its skyrocketing ways? No. But now it has an appropriate amount of ‘oomph’ that doesn’t send you across the map to collect your dropped goodies.
  
  The biggest mistake alot of people who complain about warframe are that they are comparing Digital Extremes to HUGE companies that have teams just to work on one aspect of a game that is larger than DE entire staff put together.
  It's quite a unfair to do so as its like asking two people split logs by nightfall, one person allowed to use a sawmill an the other is only allowed to a simple axe.
  Sawmill is the large company
  DE is the axe
  as the sawmill can get all the work so fast while by the time axe is still working on first few logs.
   

[Matak-FR]

il y a 44 minutes, Ultimatesoup a dit :

Edit : Oh yeah, and the Archwing system that got completely ruined imo. At the beginning, the Archwing was pretty fun to use, although missions were pretty tedious. Then DE decided to implement their 360 system, making it feel like you're playing a rocket-rock and having you bump everywhere. They could have at least reverted it.

 

You can desactivate that in option, since day 1 when they release it.

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 2 minutes, Matak-FR a dit :

You can desactivate that in option, since day 1 when they release it.

For real? How so, I've never heard/read about it 🤔

[Walkampf]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

No universal Vacuum 

There are at least as many against this change as there are people in favor of of. Just look at Titania and the problems her Razorwings Vacuum is causing a lot of players.

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Hema costs

Oh nooooo, you can get the thing in 20 minutes. What a load of carp! This one weapons costing more investment to make really breaks the game!!! Oh nooooo!!!!!

vor 42 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

DE saying they will reduce the grind in 2014 and releasing Nightwave years later

I think you don't understand what the word grind is refering to in videogames.

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Wasted content (Lunaro, Conclave, raids...)

Yeah, DE should have bought a crystal ball prior to making these things to see in advance what problems the systems whould cause/have.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Removing the Alerts which were flawed but still better than Grindwave

That's subjective. DE explained in detail the reasoning. Just because they hve a different opinion than you doesn't make their false by default.

Also, now I'm certain you don't now what the word rind is refering to in videogames.

Also, also, great job at listing the same point twice to make your list look bigger!

vor 47 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Host issues because of player hosting

Yeah, what an insult to players, that a 200 Person company doesn't spend the thousands of dollar needed to provide a server landscape and the appropriate connectivity to host tens of thousands of players!!!

 

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Chat moderation issues

Yes, I want my curse words, because I can't talk normally!

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Censorship issues 

Yes, I want my curse words, because I can't talk normally!

Hm... deja vu.

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

Warframe reworks being complete misses (Mainly thinking about Ember and Zephyr)

Yeah! 2 out of 10+ reworks are carp! What the carp man! By a crystal ball, DE. That way you can see into the future. It's such a simple thing to do!

vor 52 Minuten schrieb Ultimatesoup:

And I'm probably missing some stuff

Yeah, some marbels for example.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

27 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

1. No universal Vacuum 

2. Hema costs

3. No endgame

4. DE saying they will reduce the grind in 2014 and releasing Nightwave years later

5. Wasted content (Lunaro, Conclave, raids...)

6. Removing the Alerts which were flawed but still better than Grindwave

7. Host issues because of player hosting

8. Chat moderation issues

9. Censorship issues 

10. New players being completely lost 

11. Warframe reworks being complete misses (Mainly thinking about Ember and Zephyr)

12. Fortuna being PoE 2 for a huge part (Grinding the same tasks over and over again then never come back again except for specific activity such as Eidolons or Profit taker)

And I'm probably missing some stuff

13. Edit : Oh yeah, and the Archwing system that got completely ruined imo. At the beginning, the Archwing was pretty fun to use, although missions were pretty tedious. Then DE decided to implement their 360 system, making it feel like you're playing a rocket-rock and having you bump everywhere. They could have at least reverted it.

14. Edit 2 : I also feel that DE are disconnected from their own game. For example, even without playing the game, you cannot release K-Drive and think that it is a good system. As a mean of transport, it is very obviously inferior to the Archwing in all ways, and as a mean of fun, you have a few tricks that you can do to grind a reputation. 

1. This was already done (unless you mean to remove the vacuum mods entirely and just have it inherent?)

2. yeah the hema's cost is still pretty messed up for solo clans.

3. raids are slated to be brought back. I understand the frustration of not having an endgame, but sadly the way that warframe has been designed from the ground up with the huge margin of power between players it is going to be nearly impossible to produce an endgame that is sufficient challenge to serious min-maxxers whilst still being accessible to less hardcore veterans. DE would have to completely redo how the damage system works but each time they try and take steps in that direction they are met with backlash from players, and so through listening to their players they are left with the current, flawed system.

4. ill admit that Nightwave is more of a "traditional" grind, however being able to tackle it at my own pace instead of having to get up in the wee hours of the morning for a nitain alert is very appreciated.

5. Lunaro and conclave were (arguably failed) attempts by DE to give us a little variety, and we cannot expect them to work on those modes when so few people play them. If you enjoy PvP, maybe try to convince more people to play it and DE might start putting more manpower into expanding it.
As for raids, they said even right when they announced their removal that they were planning on bringing them back. DE just wasn't happy with the fact that the raids didn't actually play to the game's strengths.

6. DE removed alerts specifically to respond to criticisms, it kinda proves that they do listen, even if you don't like the results.

7. are you talking about host migrations, or just regular dislike of hosts? 

8. you talking about the kickbot that bans people for using bad words?

9. are you again talking about kickbot? or the fact that warframe does not allow you to name your pets/weapons naughty things?

10. already confirmed that they have been working on a new new user experience.

11. Ember's rework was done specifically to address issues people had of a max-range ember simply rushing through the mission and killing everything in existence, making the mission boring for all the other players. Zephyrs rework was done to address the fact that with parkour 2.0, some of her abilities were now completely redundant. Whether or not they were hits or misses does not mean that they were not done to address player concerns.

12. this is a fair point, both of the current free roam areas have an issue with interconnectivity with the rest of the game.

13. 6 degrees of freedom was specifically requested by a LOT of people. Also OPTIONS > CONTROLS > EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT should allow you to change back to the old way.

14. im pretty sure this is more of a problem for veterans who had access to their archwings first. From a new players perspective you would actually get the k-drive first and then the archwing.

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 4 minutes, DeckChairVonBananaCamel a dit :

1. This was already done (unless you mean to remove the vacuum mods entirely and just have it inherent?)

2. yeah the hema's cost is still pretty messed up for solo clans.

3. raids are slated to be brought back. I understand the frustration of not having an endgame, but sadly the way that warframe has been designed from the ground up with the huge margin of power between players it is going to be nearly impossible to produce an endgame that is sufficient challenge to serious min-maxxers whilst still being accessible to less hardcore veterans. DE would have to completely redo how the damage system works but each time they try and take steps in that direction they are met with backlash from players, and so through listening to their players they are left with the current, flawed system.

4. ill admit that Nightwave is more of a "traditional" grind, however being able to tackle it at my own pace instead of having to get up in the wee hours of the morning for a nitain alert is very appreciated.

5. Lunaro and conclave were (arguably failed) attempts by DE to give us a little variety, and we cannot expect them to work on those modes when so few people play them. If you enjoy PvP, maybe try to convince more people to play it and DE might start putting more manpower into expanding it.
As for raids, they said even right when they announced their removal that they were planning on bringing them back. DE just wasn't happy with the fact that the raids didn't actually play to the game's strengths.

6. DE removed alerts specifically to respond to criticisms, it kinda proves that they do listen, even if you don't like the results.

7. are you talking about host migrations, or just regular dislike of hosts? 

8. you talking about the kickbot that bans people for using bad words?

9. are you again talking about kickbot? or the fact that warframe does not allow you to name your pets/weapons naughty things?

10. already confirmed that they have been working on a new new user experience.

11. Ember's rework was done specifically to address issues people had of a max-range ember simply rushing through the mission and killing everything in existence, making the mission boring for all the other players. Zephyrs rework was done to address the fact that with parkour 2.0, some of her abilities were now completely redundant. Whether or not they were hits or misses does not mean that they were not done to address player concerns.

12. this is a fair point, both of the current free roam areas have an issue with interconnectivity with the rest of the game.

13. 6 degrees of freedom was specifically requested by a LOT of people. Also OPTIONS > CONTROLS > EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT should allow you to change back to the old way.

14. im pretty sure this is more of a problem for veterans who had access to their archwings first. From a new players perspective you would actually get the k-drive first and then the archwing.

1) I'm talking about removing the vacuum mods entirely and having it inherent, yes, in such a fast-paced, it seriously breaks the pace to stop in order to run away and gather the drops

4) and 6) Nightwave is basically a "work more to gain as much as you used to get" system while going through outdated and irrelevant content. Yes, alerts were flawed, but I'd rather do a 5-10 minutes mission to get 1 nitain than grind hours to get 5. And nitain alerts were available 4 times a day. Overall, Alerts vs NW issues can be very easily solved if we have both, as mentioned by many players, but DE will probably not do it.

7) Talking about the fact that Host Migration is pretty bugged and can halt and ruin a mission.

😎 Talking about abusive moderators, an issue that has been going on for years, that eventually exploded will Rahetalius' video exposing it and the fact that DE answered the matter in a very poor way.

9) Autoban for stuff like "Nezha is a trap", random words like "ball" being censored while there is litteraly Ballas in the game... Isn't this a Pegi 16 or 18 game?

11) I understand that Ember can be frustrating to other, although I do not play max-range builds, but rendering a Warframe useless is not the way to balance things. Plus that only worked in low-level missions. For Zephyr, they replaced her indeed-outdated abilities by basically flying/hovering abilities...in a game where most of the maps are very closed. Basically she has 2 mobility-abilities that are useless. Granted, she can be freely used in PoE or in Fortuna, but Archwing already does that job better because it has no energy cost. By the way, this can also be viewed as a disconnect between DE and their game, as in "How can you give a Warframe super flying-around mobility when most of the game are corridors and closed spaces".

13) Thanks for the notice and my bad on this one.

14) You get the Archwing pretty early in the game. And even if disregarding that, what is the point of having a whole reputation based on K-Drive when everything you gain from it is made completely useless by getting an Archwing?

 

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

1 hour ago, Ultimatesoup said:

1) I'm talking about removing the vacuum mods entirely and having it inherent, yes, in such a fast-paced, it seriously breaks the pace to stop in order to run away and gather the drops

4) and 6) Nightwave is basically a "work more to gain as much as you used to get" system while going through outdated and irrelevant content. Yes, alerts were flawed, but I'd rather do a 5-10 minutes mission to get 1 nitain than grind hours to get 5. And nitain alerts were available 4 times a day. Overall, Alerts vs NW issues can be very easily solved if we have both, as mentioned by many players, but DE will probably not do it.

7) Talking about the fact that Host Migration is pretty bugged and can halt and ruin a mission.

😎 Talking about abusive moderators, an issue that has been going on for years, that eventually exploded will Rahetalius' video exposing it and the fact that DE answered the matter in a very poor way.

9) Autoban for stuff like "Nezha is a trap", random words like "ball" being censored while there is litteraly Ballas in the game... Isn't this a Pegi 16 or 18 game?

11) I understand that Ember can be frustrating to other, although I do not play max-range builds, but rendering a Warframe useless is not the way to balance things. Plus that only worked in low-level missions. For Zephyr, they replaced her indeed-outdated abilities by basically flying/hovering abilities...in a game where most of the maps are very closed. Basically she has 2 mobility-abilities that are useless. Granted, she can be freely used in PoE or in Fortuna, but Archwing already does that job better because it has no energy cost. By the way, this can also be viewed as a disconnect between DE and their game, as in "How can you give a Warframe super flying-around mobility when most of the game are corridors and closed spaces".

13) Thanks for the notice and my bad on this one.

14) You get the Archwing pretty early in the game. And even if disregarding that, what is the point of having a whole reputation based on K-Drive when everything you gain from it is made completely useless by getting an Archwing?

 

1. as @Walkampf said, this seems to be a divisive issue, DE might stand to annoy just as many people by making this change as they would by not making it.

4/6. see, the issue with the old system is that, sure, you could get a nitain in 5-10 minutes, but you had to be online at the right time, and it's not like those nitain alerts lasted 6 hours. So if someone jumped on for a few hours, depending on the time of day, they would at most get 1 nitain, but there is a solid chance they would also completely miss it.
Another way to look at it is this:
The current nightwave has lasted 77 days so far, with how far i have gotten through it in that time i could have gotten 233 nitain, which is more than enough to cover the entirety of warframe's nitain requirements (207)
If the old alerts were still going i could have gotten 300 in that same time.
So the alerts were better, right? No... because to get 300 alert nitains i would have to, at minimum, play 4 times per day. 
If we assume someone has a healthy sleep cycle and works 5 days a week, you would be looking at something closer to 4-171 nitain depending on how those alerts synched up with their work/sleep hours. Whereas with Nightwave i can log in once every 3 days and still complete all of my challenges.

7. joys and delights of peer-to-peer networking, basically.

8. Didn't they "fire" all of the chat moderators?

9. so the "nezha is a trap" thing has been explained multiple times, and i just checked "ballas" is not censored...

11. yeah ember was ruining the fun of new players, and there are plenty of tiles tall enough to accommodate zephyr in the traditional levels.

14. while it is true that you get the archwing fairly early, to deploy it in-atmosphere you need to build the archwing launcher segment. This requires you to have access to clan research, specifically the tenno lab. This assumes, of course, that you are even aware of the fact you can equip the archwing whilst in the free-roam areas. The k-drive requires you to have completed the introductory quest to the orb vallis

I should also mention that to build the tenno lab, you would require at minimum: 4 forma, plus a bunch of nanospores which require you to get all the way round to saturn.

Edited September 19, 2019 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel
added more info about tenno lab

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Newish player having gripe = dog whistle for toxic players who will go to any means to ignore that warframe is over all not in a good place.

Moving on.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Newish player having gripe = dog whistle for toxic players who will go to any means to ignore that warframe is over all not in a good place.

Moving on.

only 5 people have really responded to OP's post

Me: genuinely curious as to what has caused OP's disillusion.
Rawbeard: informing OP of the location of DE.
RPColten: actually rude in the way they dismissed OP.
ShadowBlood89: quite a polite response and did their best to explain why they believe DE doesn't seem as engaged as other companies.
You: dismissing everyone as toxic.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ultimatesoup:

1) I'm talking about removing the vacuum mods entirely and having it inherent, yes, in such a fast-paced, it seriously breaks the pace to stop in order to run away and gather the drops

It also completely breaks the game for people managing their energy, when you instantly pick up an energy drop even when you are only missing a single point.

But hey, that's just my opinion and since my opinion isn't identical to yours, mine has to be false, right?

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Ultimatesoup:

4) and 6) Nightwave is basically a "work more to gain as much as you used to get" system while going through outdated and irrelevant content. Yes, alerts were flawed, but I'd rather do a 5-10 minutes mission to get 1 nitain than grind hours to get 5. And nitain alerts were available 4 times a day.

It is no exxageration when I say, that I'm actually getting more Nitain with NW than with alters.

You probably can't relate to this, but as someone who has a job and a family it was kind of hard to free up the time exacly in the moment when 1 of the 4 daily nitain alerts started.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Ultimatesoup:

9) Autoban for stuff like "Nezha is a trap", random words like "ball" being censored while there is litteraly Ballas in the game... Isn't this a Pegi 16 or 18 game?

The Pegi terms of use clearly state, that online interaction with other players can't be evaluated. Because of this Pegi recommendations are purely based on what's actually in the game, Namely it's level of graphical violence and dialogue of NPCs

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

The Pegi terms of use clearly state, that online interaction with other players can't be evaluated. Because of this Pegi recommendations are purely based on what's actually in the game, Namely it's level of graphical violence and dialogue of NPCs

so that's why games always say "online interactivity". I've seen it all these years but it never really clicked as to exactly why its listed

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Newish player having gripe = dog whistle for toxic players who will go to any means to ignore that warframe is over all not in a good place.

Moving on.

The problem isn't a new player having new player gripes. The OP comes across like a new player who's just parroting other people's gripes they read about online or - most probably - saw in a rant on YouTube with no real knowledge or understanding of what the underlying issues are. It's all couched in the veneer of "I'm just concerned that DE don't listen to the community" (this a couple of weeks after a massive outcry about how DE shouldn't have listened to the community about Universal Medallions), but it's reads like "People told me I should be worries, so I'm really worried, guys!"

These forums are an echo chamber, where a plurality of complaints are a game of telephone. Someone at some point made a solid argument for why a system or balance decision is flawed, people picked that up and repeated it with increasingly less detail to the point where the majority of complaints have now devolved into BALANCE BAD! FIX! Y U NO LISTEN! with very little substance behind it. The OP's own complaints are equally vague and unspecific - the concerns of someone who doesn't actually know what exactly it is they're concerned about, but they're REALLY concerned about it.

Grandstanding nonsense about how Warframe is broken and DE don't listen fix the game, etc. - these aren't helpful. As with most things, the devil's in the details. If you have specific issues, let's talk about them. But generic complaints like these are fundamentally unaddressable.

[(NSW)0nuku]

10 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

im curious about what exactly has prompted you to come to this conclusion.

I've been feeling it ever since I started looking around the bug reports forum, and it's certainly come to a head with medallion and arbitration changes.

I really tried to not be another alarmist idiot, but it seems like I came across that way anyway. I'm aware they post here, but it seems like they pick a random handful of topics to cater to and leave the vast majority to rot, especially important ones.

8 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

Right, so is that why you're 'rambling' about topics that you realistically have no context/information/idea about ie, 'endgame', 'DE's history of community feedback, development issues?

If you read my post, I specifically dismissed endgame as something I know nothing about, and I am just talking about patterns I've seen in this time.

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

DE is listening but alot of people are expecting to have DE listen to everyones demands an that is something very impossible to do as they want to appeal to as much of the fan base as possible while using there own judgement.
Many players want systems in the game that just are game breaking requests to something that just doesn't make any sense. If DE put in all these systems a person requests then guess what there be no new quests or items as they be having to change everything about the game just to do what everyone in the fanbase wants.
DE has listen to there community like with the sonicor when they changed soemthing about it

I also spoke about how the good feedback should be acknowledged and some of the more broken ones explained. There's a lot of gold mines here, ideas certainly better than K-Drives or Archwings as others have insisted. After what I've been seeing, I'm just doubting DE has a solid idea of where the game should go, and some select members of the playerbase do.

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

The biggest mistake alot of people who complain about warframe are that they are comparing Digital Extremes to HUGE companies that have teams just to work on one aspect of a game that is larger than DE entire staff put together.

And again, I specifically addressed this.

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The problem isn't a new player having new player gripes. The OP comes across like a new player who's just parroting other people's gripes they read about online or - most probably - saw in a rant on YouTube with no real knowledge or understanding of what the underlying issues are. It's all couched in the veneer of "I'm just concerned that DE don't listen to the community" (this a couple of weeks after a massive outcry about how DE shouldn't have listened to the community about Universal Medallions), but it's reads like "People told me I should be worries, so I'm really worried, guys!"

These forums are an echo chamber, where a plurality of complaints are a game of telephone. Someone at some point made a solid argument for why a system or balance decision is flawed, people picked that up and repeated it with increasingly less detail to the point where the majority of complaints have now devolved into BALANCE BAD! FIX! Y U NO LISTEN! with very little substance behind it. The OP's own complaints are equally vague and unspecific - the concerns of someone who doesn't actually know what exactly it is they're concerned about, but they're REALLY concerned about it.

Grandstanding nonsense about how Warframe is broken and DE don't listen fix the game, etc. - these aren't helpful. As with most things, the devil's in the details. If you have specific issues, let's talk about them. But generic complaints like these are fundamentally unaddressable.

Much of this does come from the forums yes, but it's also my experience in the forums. I try to make a distinction between what I've heard and what I've seen, and I included several examples from my own experience. I've tried reporting specific issues in the bug reports and feedback forums, and they're never heard. When DE can actually acknowledge them, even just a "looking into it" or something in the update notes, I will give those specific issues.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

10 hours ago, (NSW)0nuku said:

I've been feeling it ever since I started looking around the bug reports forum, and it's certainly come to a head with medallion and arbitration changes.

I really tried to not be another alarmist idiot, but it seems like I came across that way anyway. I'm aware they post here, but it seems like they pick a random handful of topics to cater to and leave the vast majority to rot, especially important ones.

the issue i think with the medallions is that with how few people are playing it, making it so you don't even need to play it to get the rewards would be a death knell for a mode that actually has a group of dedicated players who enjoy it very much.
And the arbitration changes are all to specifically respond to player feedback, yes there is a very vocal group of people who dont like the changes, but that does not mean DE isn't listening. I think my favourite example of this is when they even changed their upcoming changes to respond to feedback they were receiving (they were intending on having a bundle of 5x ayatan stars, but they changed it to 3x vitus essence when players pointed out that, so long as you opened containers/lockers in missions you would always have a surplus of them vs your sculptures).

I think a couple of the bigger causes of people thinking DE are not listening are the uncommon-ness of their responses on the forums and how long it can take to squash bugs. But there are a few things to remember:
1. there are a lot more of us than there are of them, and they are going to spend most of their time actually developing, not responding on the forums.
2. some bugs are simply low-priority. I posted a bug to the forums (and even got a dev response for more clarification), and the bug wasn't squashed in the recent update. Am i upset? No. Because my bug was one that prevented amp usage, but only if you were the client, used a mote amp, and decided to use your codex/simaris scanner whilst in operator mode. Who the hell goes scanning in operator mode? Especially when they still use the mote amp! So yeah, i'd expect my bug to take a looooong time to fix, unless a large number of players flocked to my post and reported that they too were running into this bug.

[George_PPS]

So, what exactly are the parts DE isn’t listening and need to be improved? What are the main issues? It’s good that there are paragraphs so it’s easier to read.  I couldn’t find it where and what’re the problems? 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

7 hours ago, George_PPS said:

So, what exactly are the parts DE isn’t listening and need to be improved? What are the main issues? It’s good that there are paragraphs so it’s easier to read.  I couldn’t find it where and what’re the problems? 

they only respond to "issues" by ignoring them and then show off cosmetics, not even made by them

yes they fix bug, yes they implement new stuff into the game (when most just want tweeks to old modes, and updated reward tables)

they are listening but they r ignoring everything

when have they updated excavation so that in low level missions, that it doesnt die almost instantly for new players that dont have frost yet?

when have they fixed the pathing and cover mechanics used by the ai in defense on earth?

when have they updated archwing? and dont state the archguns on land bs ether 

when have they updated the reward tables for older nodes, to add more then just relics?

when was the last time they updated an older boss? (hint, May 4, 2017)

teams of 50 or less people r pumping out games of 40 hours for a single player game, that are good, and less buggy and it is only taking 2-3 years, this is year 7 for a 350 man team, no excuses 

and before u say anything, im mr 27 with over 4k hours in and watch the dev streams on the regular

and the only reason im 4k hours in, is do to the excessive grind u have to do to unlock items, but iv also been only putting in 1k hours a year

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[Velothed]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

teams of 50 or less people r pumping out games of 40 hours for a single player game, that are good, and less buggy and it is only taking 2-3 years, this is year 7 for a 350 man team, no excuses 

and before u say anything, im mr 27 with over 4k hours in and watch the dev streams on the regular

and the only reason im 4k hours in, is do to the excessive grind u have to do to unlock items, but iv also been only putting in 1k hours a year

Pretty much everything you allready said yourself.

Warframe is an online multiplayer life service, not a singleplayer game. That entails a workload of an entirely different level.

50 people, 40h game 2-3years

350 people 2000h+ game 7years

Of course, there is a lot more grind than in a singleplayer game, but they have grind too.

It would be interesting to hear an example of the type of singleplayer game you are talking about, even though a comparable game would be more useful.

47 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

yes they fix bug, yes they implement new stuff into the game (when most just want tweeks to old modes, and updated reward tables)

Neither you nor those forums are representing "most", just fyi.

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

when have they fixed the pathing and cover mechanics used by the ai in defense on earth?

Enemy AI in general is a major problem, that should be looked at soon, I agree with that point.

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

when have they updated archwing?

It has been on the backburner because it's not very popular, let's see if that changes with empyrion.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

they are listening but they r ignoring everything

It may seem that way to you, because they mostly respond to stuff you don't care about, that doesn't mean they are ignoring stuff.

[Avienas]

On 2019-09-19 at 5:02 AM, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Newish player having gripe = dog whistle for toxic players who will go to any means to ignore that warframe is over all not in a good place.

Moving on.

If a new player has to start griping about a game you know its starting to prove that a game is falling apart, You could be a Veteran or a Newbie, but if a game has frustrating elements flooding the majority of the game, then the question of: `Why Continue To Stick Around With The Game If It Has Had No ABSOLUTE Mechanical Improvements for a long time.` is likely going to flood many people`s minds as they go thru the game, wanting to get all sorts of stuff but likely run into more annoyance then chasing a legendary weapon in a game like Guild wars 2.

Here lets use a mobile game i play alot which some of its next update content has been leaked, namely Honkai impact 3rd`s 3.5 version (where global is currently 3.3), Recently they finally decided to scrap the base system after it has been persistent for MANY updates, acted as a huge resource sink and plan to refund all the resources invested in it and give all the boon it gave as innate. Which consisted of things like +35% stats to your valkyries, some other reward systems and what not and most of that is being condensed and compressed into other systems. On top of the things some of those are being condensed to are greatly being simplified.

Now why do i bring to point about the update of this content? Because it greatly improves the player experience overall by getting rid of annoying dated systems.

In warframe`s case you have alot of dead end bits that have hanged around such as transmutation (not the riven one), extractors, conclave, etc. In addition to dated systems which have become rather mandatory thanks to nightwave & the recent outbreak making more attention to invasions, which were mostly done for special crafting resources and what is basically a slot-machine to wait for the GOOD stuff to appear, namely special weapon blue prints and what not. Not to mention Syndicate missions has become just as annoyingly chunky if you want to do up to 9 of them a DAY, getting all medallions in them and have a stockpile, which you still want to likely do other things.

A great deal of Warframe`s grind heavy content is from a ancient time when not much else was present but because of how much farming, grinding and other NEW activities are present(disruption, fissures, bounties, arbitation, open world, orb mothers, eidolons, etc.), If D.E.`s plan was to reduce grinding and what not, they should of ADDRESSED ancient systems, condensed them and maybe put focus on making them more as passive activities. Such as Red Veil would require us to kill X faction for a week and get points of standing per kill with a bonus to heavy enemies OR New Loka would have us do endless type missions and gain a bundle of points for each wave completed, both of them hitting a max cap we could likely finish in 2 to 3 days with several hours of gameplay. Basically put a Focus for these kind of systems into weekly passive content we do not have to prepare builds and run solo in some map like Adaro to mass kill a bunch of enemies with a cold weapon. Especially if they continue to add more content and just force us to burn ourselves out as we have to bounce between 3 to 5 different kind of content just to say....get all the materials to craft one kind of part we need for say our railjack, just to give an example.

Plus its not like we are demanding D.E. to re-invent the game. Most of the fixes they could pull to condense loads of things would at best, could be achieved thru using things like the nightwave system, making a condensed single challenge version that rotates each week for each of the syndicate and have one based on what your rank is, though you would only get them if you were rank 1 and above. With Invasions, just could make it so we get objective points for playing on that planet where an invasion is going on and we can spend those for the special crafting mats & potato bps, plus just move the special weapons to the freaking marketplace/dojo already...

SURE, it may not ADDRESS all the issues warframe has been left unchecked and turn into even more frustrations. But i would like to think that if D.E. starts taking an actual effort to tidy up their game and get things back into a state where people can focus more on having fun then basically doing long math equations to optimize a farm/grind in the most ridiculous manner, then i would hope to believe that Warframe can actually live much longer, then suffer the crushing blows it will receive with other online games come around with f2p style and likely more accessibility and potential endgame in its name while also giving loads of fashion available to players, with alternatives for people to obtain said fashion without spending money thru other players, Yes i am talking about Phantasy Star Online 2, despite having not played it for years.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Avienas

[(NSW)0nuku]

13 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

some bugs are simply low-priority. I posted a bug to the forums (and even got a dev response for more clarification), and the bug wasn't squashed in the recent update. Am i upset? No. Because my bug was one that prevented amp usage, but only if you were the client, used a mote amp, and decided to use your codex/simaris scanner whilst in operator mode. Who the hell goes scanning in operator mode? Especially when they still use the mote amp! So yeah, i'd expect my bug to take a looooong time to fix, unless a large number of players flocked to my post and reported that they too were running into this bug.

And then there are things like getting stuck in the ground when transferring to and from Archwing on Uranus, a bug that typically means restarting the mission, that I've seen no feedback on.

13 hours ago, George_PPS said:

So, what exactly are the parts DE isn’t listening and need to be improved? What are the main issues? It’s good that there are paragraphs so it’s easier to read.  I couldn’t find it where and what’re the problems? 

56 minutes ago, Avienas said:

If a new player has to start griping about a game you know its starting to prove that a game is falling apart, You could be a Veteran or a Newbie, but if a game has frustrating elements flooding the majority of the game, then the question of: `Why Continue To Stick Around With The Game If It Has Had No ABSOLUTE Mechanical Improvements for a long time.` is likely going to flood many people`s minds as they go thru the game, wanting to get all sorts of stuff but likely run into more annoyance then chasing a legendary weapon in a game like Guild wars 2.

I may not have been able to articulate it well, getting wrapped up in other smaller gripes and specific complaints, but overall Avienas described my feelings perfectly. This game is sick, and not in a good way. DE insists on releasing new content that, for a majority of players, will take a handful of hours to beat, and most of the rest just haven't unlocked it yet. But they turn a blind eye to the thousands of hours of older content that is either 1. Required to access new content, 2. Forced to relevance by Nightwave, and/or 3. Still frequented for rewards, much of the content is fraught with balance problems and bugs. You don't need to be playing the game for years to see that either.

And looking at DE's track record, they don't have a clear idea of what would make it fun, fair, and rewarding. But at least some aspects of the community do. When I refer to feedback, I don't mean the new frame or mode ideas (though there was a time DE listened to those too), I mean those people who put hundreds of hours into testing modes, hours more into thought, and then share and defend their ideas to improve said modes, all of which is wasted because DE doesn't acknowledge it.

If you'd like a specific example, Ancients have been on my mind with all the Infested missions I'm doing between a Mesa grind and Nightwave. According to the lore, these are implied to be Infested remnants of a specific subset of Orokin, and you'd think their numbers would be low. And yet even at the level 40-50 missions where I spend most of my time, these guys come in groups of 2-3, applying stacking buffs to everything from basic Leapers to Phorid to Zealots, making huge masses of them virtually unkillable until the Ancients are picked out of the mess. Not to mention the Toxic Ancients that are able to kill you with zero warning by sneaking up behind or hiding in packs of grunts.

[Iccotak]

On 2019-09-18 at 9:02 PM, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

im curious about what exactly has prompted you to come to this conclusion.

Because DE needs to actually build the whole game
Warframe has been out as "BETA" since 2013 and at this point is a successful F2P game with a studio of +300 people working there

They have a strong foundation and concept - now they need to actually execute a plan of consistent content release to fill out the solar system
We have small snippets of a story when Warframe is capable of so much more. imo every Warframe should have a quest at this point.

The beginning player experience isn't exactly stellar ( yes I know they are updating it but that is just one small piece of the puzzle ) Warframe needs a radical update - not to change things - but to add playable content

Open World was good because it provides an open space for questing and missions and provides atmosphere

The railjack is good because it connects the core game play with space combat and overhauls Archwing

These are great features and I can understand why DE feels they have to change things up in order to maintain player attention BUT they have spent too much time experimenting and not enough time creating a full fledged game with all the strong support they have had over the years.

Fill out the planets. Implement a full story that course over the whole solar system and beyond