The Operator: With Age Comes Experience

[(PSN)Vexx757]

From me watching the duviri paradox trailer, I assumed that we will be able to play as an older version of the operator if this is the case, I think that the operator should get some improvements to show the idea of with age comes experience.

 

Firstly, the operators should have better mobility than what we currently have. Here are some improvements;

·       Sprint Speed: The operators should be able to run faster than the current speed they are at even with the passive of 30% sprint speed from the naramon tree is still slow. The operators should at least get an extra 50% running speed to make them more usable. Also, if anyone knows how much sprint speed they have without any passives or arcanes please let me know.

 

·       Jump hight: Operators should either be able to do a double jump or holding the button should make them jump higher to make them unable to get to higher platforms.

 

·       Wall Run: I would like to see them be able to perform parkour moves. Even though void dashing gets you to where you want to be faster sometimes it`s uncontrollable and it`s not fun but seeing the operator performing a wall run would be fun to watch and another alternative to get around places.

 

·       Dodging: For fun`s same, this something I would like to see. Since they have been affected by the void, visually, they should perform a side-step (like hildryn) and for dodging backwards, they should perform a backwards handspring.

 

·       Knockdown Recovery: Since they don`t have that much of survivability, this would be a very useful mechanic to add plus it would be fun to watch.

 

·       Fly Kick/Slide Kick: Fly kicking is one of the most underused manoeuvres in warframe. Because warframes are powerful, a fly kick is underpowered but since operators are not as powerful as them, I think this move would be fitting for them. When they fly kick an enemy, they should receive a small ragdoll also, they should be able to do a slide kick (like in ninja gaiden) where the enemy should receive a knockdown. (combined with the slide we currently have)

 

·       Edge Grab: Although operators can perform this, It`s not reliable. The only thing I’ll say is it needs to be more consistent for it to be useable.

 

·       Chimera Prologue Dash:  This feature in the prologue was fun, I`m hoping that we get this dash after we complete the new war quest. In the environment, there can be dash points where operators can dash to. (like in the amazing spider-man games web dash) If they added an operator game mode where it`s about stealth, this dash ability would be a perfect fit.

 

·       Enemy Vaulting: Warframe can do this already however, performing this is not reliable an unnoticeable. Operators being able to do this makes them more versatile in getting an advantage on enemies. As for how it works, if the operator jumps onto an enemy, it will automatically vault them up into the air, holding the jump button will make them vault over them getting behind them.

 

·       Zipline: Watching them do this is fun however, once again, it`s doesn’t happen all the time which makes it unreliable. This needs a fix that makes it more consistent and when operators are on a zipline the should move faster and when jumping off, the should get a jump boost.

 

Secondly since operators have void abilities, I think operators should be able to use melee weapons. This is something that I and other people have wanted to see happen. So, I’m going to talk about what I would like out of this when this happens.

Spoiler

Usable weapons:

·       Swords

·       Duel swords

·       Rapiers

·       Daggers

·       Duel daggers

·       Glaives

·       Hammers

·       Heavy blades

·       Tonfa

·       Fists

·       Sparring

·       Claws

·       Polearms

·       Staff

·       Whips

 

Traits of melee weapon;

·       The melee weapons that operators use is made up of void energy that they can summon from within themselves (visually like excel 4th ability).

·       Since it`s pure void energy, they will operator energy colour.

·       Void weapons will work the same way as normal melee weapons. (modding, adding forma, levelling etc)

·       They can also use existing stance mods.

·       blocking incoming damage to give them survivability by giving operators 90% damage reduction.

·       Void damage will be included with the other stats.

·       When attacking an enemy, any bullets that stray near the enemy your attacking will reflect the damage back at the enemy that fired them. (the opposite to bullet attractor)

·       Using void weapons will use the same button as the one using void blast. To use void blast, you have to hold it instead of a press.

·       Operators can only benefit from the operator weapon passive if they have their signature weapon equipped in hand.

·       If the operators have their void melee weapon equipped while transferring into the warframe, the operator will have it equipped still when transferring out.

·       Operator can only preform melee finishers while in void mode.

·       Since this does mostly void damage, they are highly effective against sentient enemies.

 

You can use any melee weapon with the operators, however, using a certain weapon will give bonus stats for the weapon and the operator.

 

Madurai:

Signature weapons:

Swords, Duel swords, Tonfa, Fists, Sparring & Claws.

 

Bonuses:

Preforming aerial attacks will send out an energy wave that has a 70% chance for enemies to burst into flames.

Operator receives 70% resistance to status effects.

·       Void melee weapons will benefit from phoenix talons, phoenix spirit and void strike.

·       The energy wave from aerial attacks will benefit from void strike and phoenix spirit

·       If enemies don`t burst into flames from the fire wave, it will do void damage instead.

·       The energy wave will only benefit from void and status damage.

·       The wave can reach up to 10m with an 8m radius.

·       Energy waves has damage fall-off.

·       Affected by Stealth Damage Bonus.

·       Can headshot enemies.

 

Zenurik:

Signature weapons:

Swords, Rapiers, Glaives, Sparring, Polearms, Staff & Whips.

 

Bonuses:

Doing a slide attack will send a cone wave the will hold enemies in the air.

Operator has 500 shields.

·       The cone wave will reach up to 15m with a 180 angle.

·       Enemies will be held in the air for 7 seconds.

·       Preforming another slide attack will not reset the duration of enemies held in the air.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies can be held by this.

·       Using this on sentients will halt their movements and attacks.

·       The colour of the cone wave uses operator energy colour.

 

Naramon:

Signature weapons:

Swords, Duel swords, Daggers, Duel daggers, Glaives, Sparring & Claws.

 

Bonuses:

While blocking, there`s a 60% chance enemies attacks will be reflected at them, breaking their defences, making them more susceptible to damage.

Operator receives 30% running speed.

·       Void melee weapons will benefit from affinity spike, power spike, void stalker & executing dash.

·       Enemies vulnerable from reflected attacks will be dealt more damage from using surging dash.

·       Reflected attacks will instantly affect the enemies.

·       Reflecting attacks from enemies will cause them to stagger.

·       The stagger will last two seconds.

·       Enemies being weaker to damage cannot stack with multiple uses however then stagger can be used again however, the chance of the proc is reduced to 40%.

·       Affected enemies will have a white mark above them to indicate which enemies are weakened.

·       Warframe and weapon damage can take advantage of this.

·       Using this on sentients will permanently strip them of their invulnerability and can be killed easily.

·       The extra 30% running speed will stack with mind step.

 

Vazarin:

Signature weapons:

Rapiers, Glaives, Hammers, Polearms, Staff & Whips.

Bonuses:

Melee weapons have and extra 10m range and each enemy hit will have a 40% chance to be affected by viral with 200% status duration.

Operator health is depleted, the operator will be placed in void mode and will regenerate health.

·       Polearms, staffs and whips will benefit greatly from weapon passive.

·       Signature weapon passive makes it to where you can hit multiple enemies with one swing.

·       The operator bonus ability has a cooldown of 30 seconds.

·       The operator will stay in void mode for three seconds.

·       The operator will regenerate 50 health a second.

·       Void regen and void aegis will activate while in void mode.

·       The health regeneration can scale off on void regen.

·       The cooldown will only reach zero if in operator form.

·       Sentients will also be affected by a viral proc.

 

Unairu

Signature weapons:

Hammers, Heavy blades, Tonfa, Fists, Sparring & Polearms.

 

Bonuses:

Slam attacks caused an AOE that enemies to be ragdolls and adds 600 slam damage.

Operator receives 500 armour.

·       Void spines will work when blocking with melee weapon.

·       Melee slam range reaches 12m.

·       Enemies within 12m will receive the full damage of slam attacks.

·       Unairu wisp can increase melee slam damage.

·       Enemies affected by sundering dash will suffer more damage from melee slam damage.

·       Operator bonus armour can scale off on stone skin and basilisk scales.

·       Slam attacks can also halt sentients movement and attacks plus ragdoll them.

 

Void Rage

Void weapons have a gauge that can be filled up by killing enemies. When this happens, the operator is in a powerful state that increases melee damage, attack speed, 60% damage reduction and amplify weapon bonuses.

·       Void rage will last one minute.

·       Upon activation, operator will scream in rage surrounded by an aura (operator`s energy colour)

 

Amplified bonuses:

Madurai:

Aerial attacks will ignite into flames instantly, reach up to 20m and will release three energy waves.

 

Zenurik:

Held enemies are affected by radiation and enemies shooting enemies held up will have their shots reflected at them.

 

Naramon:

Enemies with a mark will be affected by gas damage and preforming an aerial attack will zip the operator towards enemies within 20m.

 

Vazarin:

Melee weapon range is increased to 15m and can hit through obstacles and walls.

 

Unairu

Slam attack AOE range reaches 20m and affected enemies receive 30% reduced movement speed for 10 seconds.

22

 

Also there are some problems when using the operators plus somethings that could improve them as well so there needs to be some QOL/bugs/changes/improvements for them.

 

·       There is a delay between pressing the button and operator crouching.

·       Companion mods like animal instinct should work while in operator form not just warframes.

·       Two arcanes can be installed on amps.

·       Include a b c slots for amps to give option to change amps, colours, equip arcanes and lenses.

·       Operators can ride on K-drives.

·       Have the option to individually activate/deactivate focus tree abilities you want without disconnecting other abilities.

·       In kuva missions, when you use void blast, you are in 1st person perspective and you can`t control you operator properly.

·       You can change operator visuals, focus trees and amps while in the simulacrum.

·       Add an in-depth face customisation (nose length, eye width etc) and separate body sliders to change the length, width and height of the operators.

·       Add different voices for operators (from different ethnicities) and have a slider to manipulate the sound to make it unique to your operator.

·       Sentinel are invulnerable while you`re in operator mode.

·       If you have vacuum mod on your sentinel or companion and you are in your operator form, the operator should be able to pick up items.

·       You should be able to use operators in the relays.

Edited October 23, 2019 by (PS4)Vexx757

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Wow ppl must really don`t like the operators...

[Cloudyvisage]

Operators are a useful bag of tricks for any tenno, they aren't the strongest thing around, nor the most durable, nor the most mobile, but they are above average in each category. A speed runner Nova would certainly beat a kiddo with only void dash as they have no longevity but a normal frame would lose. A tank would lose in durability but a caster frame is would go down faster than a kiddo. The Amps are all over the place but if you build them right they can beat out a good number of weapons though they simply can't beat everything. Invisibility.

I like the operators not just for the story implications but also for the shake up they give gameplay. Any problems that come about aren't really from the Operators but from the systems surrounding them such as Focus. Their core abilities are just useful.

[(XBOX)BlueDually]

While they do have void powers I have always thought of them more like the kids from Evangelion or Darling in the Franxx, they have a special trait that enables them to pilot and it has nothing to do with their physical aptitude.

But they are kids so the they should be able to at least sprint quickly for a little bit; maybe not double jump but a little more athleticism would be nice. The Warframe is a bio-mech so it's physical capabilities far out pace that of a person.

And ride K -drives, I am so disappointed there is not different dialog with the Vent kids if you show up without a Warframe. As the Vent kids are a few years younger than the Operator.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@Cloudyvisage @BlueDually What do you think of these suggestion for them?

[5H4DE]

12 hours ago, (XB1)BlueDually said:

While they do have void powers I have always thought of them more like the kids from Evangelion or Darling in the Franxx, they have a special trait that enables them to pilot and it has nothing to do with their physical aptitude.

But they are kids so the they should be able to at least sprint quickly for a little bit; maybe not double jump but a little more athleticism would be nice. The Warframe is a bio-mech so it's physical capabilities far out pace that of a person.

And ride K -drives, I am so disappointed there is not different dialog with the Vent kids if you show up without a Warframe. As the Vent kids are a few years younger than the Operator.

If I remember correctly, i's in the lore that the founders of the focus schools were so strong on their own they could outperform warframes in every category. My guess is that a few quests down the line we'll reach that point, maybe after Duviri.

[GrayArchon]

24 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

If I remember correctly, i's in the lore that the founders of the focus schools were so strong on their own they could outperform warframes in every category. My guess is that a few quests down the line we'll reach that point, maybe after Duviri.

This is stated nowhere.

[Kaggelos]

Some of those ideas are really nice. Others are not my cup of tea. (Any point/idea i dont mention does not automatially mean i dislike, im just pointing out what piqued my interest)

The ones i really liked are:

Dodging:

• For fun`s same, this something I would like to see. Since they have been affected by the void, visually, they should perform a side-step (like hildryn) and for dodging backwards, they should perform a backwards handspring. (nothing more imho, as they are physically weaker than warframes, and should stay that way, both from a gameplay and story perspective)

Traits of melee weapon;

•        The melee weapons that operators use is made up of void energy that they can summon from within themselves (visually like excel 4th ability).
•        Since it`s pure void energy, they will operator energy colour. (i think it would be best if operator melee weapons dont share the same moding system as regular weapons, but rather a different improvement method, like the immortal mods from the upcoming Kuva Lich system, as to differentiate them from normal weapons)

Areas to improve:

•        Companion mods like animal instinct should work while in operator form not just warframes.
•        Two arcanes can be installed on amps.
•        Include a b c slots for amps to give option to change amps, colours, equip arcanes and lenses.
•        Operators can ride on K-drives. (another nice addition would be if we could use some more of our equipment from the gear wheel while in operator, like mining and fishing)
•        Have the option to individually activate/deactivate focus tree abilities you want without disconnecting other abilities.
•        You can change operator visuals, focus trees and amps while in the simulacrum.
•        Add an in-depth face customisation (nose length, eye width etc) and separate body sliders to change the length, width and height of the operators.
•        Add different voices for operators (from different ethnicities) and have a slider to manipulate the sound to make it unique to your operator.
•        Sentinel are invulnerable while you`re in operator mode.
•        If you have vacuum mod on your sentinel or companion and you are in your operator form, the operator should be able to pick up items.
•        You should be able to use operators in the relays. (while i'd love this idea, i think they're not doing it for spoilery reasons towards new players)

As a side note, personally I really like using operators, it gives variety and they have some really cool abilities that are necessary for combat in specific missions. Also, make Energizing Dash Way-bound/Universal for all schools.

 

[Loza03]

On 2019-09-23 at 2:07 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

 

·       Sprint Speed: The operators should be able to run faster than the current speed they are at even with the passive of 30% sprint speed from the naramon tree is still slow. The operators should at least get an extra 50% running speed to make them more usable. Also, if anyone knows how much sprint speed they have without any passives or arcanes please let me know.

 

·       Jump hight: Operators should either be able to do a double jump or holding the button should make them jump higher to make them unable to get to higher platforms.

 

·       Wall Run: I would like to see them be able to perform parkour moves. Even though void dashing gets you to where you want to be faster sometimes it`s uncontrollable and it`s not fun but seeing the operator performing a wall run would be fun to watch and another alternative to get around places.

 

·       Dodging: For fun`s same, this something I would like to see. Since they have been affected by the void, visually, they should perform a side-step (like hildryn) and for dodging backwards, they should perform a backwards handspring.

 

·       Knockdown Recovery: Since they don`t have that much of survivability, this would be a very useful mechanic to add plus it would be fun to watch.

 

·       Fly Kick/Slide Kick: Fly kicking is one of the most underused manoeuvres in warframe. Because warframes are powerful, a fly kick is underpowered but since operators are not as powerful as them, I think this move would be fitting for them. When they fly kick an enemy, they should receive a small ragdoll also, they should be able to do a slide kick (like in ninja gaiden) where the enemy should receive a knockdown. (combined with the slide we currently have)

Bear in mind their whole schtick is that it is their spiritual power made manifest through the void, not their physical prowess, that defines them. So whilst some of these can (and I agree, should) be implemented, they should have it done via their void powers, not physical strength.

Dodging for example, by use of mini-void dashes, as opposed to the awkward slide, similar to as shown here:

Spoiler

 

Double-jumping could take the Destiny approach (I know that's a dirty phrase around here), having them use the void to create an area of reduced gravity in order to float upwards (albeit at a rate more fitting of Warframe's pace), and maybe something similar for wall-running. Although for them, something similar to a sort of 'wall walk' might work better, somewhere between a wall run and a wall cling.

On 2019-09-23 at 2:07 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

·       Chimera Prologue Dash:  This feature in the prologue was fun, I`m hoping that we get this dash after we complete the new war quest. In the environment, there can be dash points where operators can dash to. (like in the amazing spider-man games web dash) If they added an operator game mode where it`s about stealth, this dash ability would be a perfect fit.

This would be a fair bit more difficult to implement due to needing to edit levels putting invisible warp points into them. Unless it wound up working more like Ash's teleport - being a 'warp to enemies/objects'.

On 2019-09-23 at 2:07 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

·       Enemy Vaulting: Warframe can do this already however, performing this is not reliable an unnoticeable. Operators being able to do this makes them more versatile in getting an advantage on enemies. As for how it works, if the operator jumps onto an enemy, it will automatically vault them up into the air, holding the jump button will make them vault over them getting behind them.

Again, physical strength vs spiritual strength.

"My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will"

 

Regarding melee weapons, I do want Operator Melee, but after some soul searching between my desire to see an Operator with a Nikana and thematic consistency, thematic consistency won out. If they do (and should) get melee weapons, those melee weapons should be melee versions of Amps. As in, channeling their void abilities into weapons, not swinging around physical ones. Or, potentially, something like the Dragon Ball Super Goku Black approach:

Spoiler

Projecting a weapon from the arm, either being an arm blade or manifesting a weapon that's visually ethereal out of void energy. The last one being the least likely, but still a cool prospect.

 

 

Personally, I also think these powers should be unlocked over time. Starting weak, with just the base abilities, the dinky slide and whatnot, and through a system of XP gain (not Focus), they gain more and more abilities as they get more control over the void. As you say, with age comes experience.

[ShogunGunshow]

I do kinda want to flip around punching and kicking people in the face with an Obex/Kogake as my operator. 

But I have a very specific fetish.

[Mos-Eisley]

3 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

If I remember correctly, i's in the lore that the founders of the focus schools were so strong on their own they could outperform warframes in every category. My guess is that a few quests down the line we'll reach that point, maybe after Duviri.

If the operators are able to outperform a Warframe, what would be the point of warframes?

[Avienas]

27 minutes ago, Mos-Eisley said:

If the operators are able to outperform a Warframe, what would be the point of warframes?

Honestly i feel this entire thread is pulling a train-wrek of butthurty. The main issue is operators barely get much beyond what the base abilities they can do. Plus just like LOADS OF WARFRAMES, the `abilities` they are able to gain with some of the schools is just garbage (+15% damage that likely only applies to the warframe? Small sparse fixed damage with nothing else going for them in the form of them? `Charging a Void blast` with nothing unique or letting the void blast able to deal a VERY impressive amount of damage compared to us void popping enemies with our so called `void blast`?)

If i had to list a few ideas that i believe the topic opener is trying to pull from:

• Basically they want the operator to feel like they have done some exercising since they woke up from what might as well be cyro-sleep and are able to do some basic things like actual running and `dodging` instead of some crappy slide dodge, even a side step skip would be much better.

 

• As for the abilities to look amazing, probably pulling them from games like INFAMOUS series where you have the characters doing things like producing electical/photonic/smoke like energy to hover in the air from their hands, using said things to pull off huge jumps or even mobility. Plus straight up using said types of energy to actually amp up physical attacks so its a more resounding bang, instead of being what Void blast basically is.

 

• Operators are not just shaping void energy into shapes like they are able to pull the same crap as excalibur, as far as the lore and game-play is shown, i see it more as the operators are being emitters for it aka launching the energy from themselves, usually thru their hands and having things like amps letting that be focused. So till we get some kind of special handle tool or even a light weight baton like object to let the operator project the energy in a blade like manner. Which is likely going to have Disney try to come after D.E. cause light-saber memes even though its not like the star wars franchise owns the gag on energy based sabers. Who knows, we might get something like that with the Diviri Paradox or the New War. Plus before you say certain amps could likely perform the job, i would say we need some lore improvements that end up `greatly` improving operator void energy capacity to address us suddenly able to perpetually keep a bunch of energy active, unless operators are gonna be doing it Megaman Zero style where the energy blade itself is not produced from the `saber` until the actual slashes are being done (aka summoning the blade mid-swing).

Edited October 23, 2019 by Avienas

[natinnet]

my top of disgustion things:

- ugly focus interface. we even can't see current stats!

- speed&jumps, yes. give us at least rhino's speed! maybe for adult version only, a kid with short legs can stay slow)

- my pet should follow me! if it too much for default behaviour, it could be set up with some kind of companion mod.

 

a few things which could be better, than now :

- separate arcanes for amp components

- energizing dash for all schools. you are going to do such thing for itzal's blink, so why not?

- mods for operator. maybe for adult version only. we can put mods in everything else: cats, dogs and even in k-drives, so why not, again?

- equipment items for operator. it's odd that kiddo can use scanner, but not tranq rifle or nozam cutter. and k-drive. and shawzin...

 

[Althaline]

If I keep upvoting the ideas for Operator melee amps (or inbuilt melee), eventually DE might implement it.

Other good parts of your post include: Jump Height (especially now that the void mode jump tech is dead), Sprint speed (why does kiddo need to expend their resource in order to move at all), Animal Instinct/Vacuum (does my kitteh not recognise me?!?), Disconnecting certain parts of the skill tree (Void Radiance), and more customisation (YES).

[Cloudyvisage]

I wouldn't mind the schools changing our interactions, Naramon is clearly a physically fit school, they are based around finesse, Madurai is more strength, Unairu is more about endurance, Vazarin is technical skill, Zenurik is knowledge/intellect.

If Zenurik and Vazarin had pathetic running but had better than normal ability movement while Naramon and Madurai are flat out faster in acceleration and Unairu has some sort of wind up to running that would be interesting. These specific things aren't necessarily what I'd like but it would be fun to see the schools have a difference in how they have been recovering and working on themselves since the Second Dream and the War Within.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

I wouldn't mind the schools changing our interactions, Naramon is clearly a physically fit school, they are based around finesse, Madurai is more strength, Unairu is more about endurance, Vazarin is technical skill, Zenurik is knowledge/intellect.

If Zenurik and Vazarin had pathetic running but had better than normal ability movement while Naramon and Madurai are flat out faster in acceleration and Unairu has some sort of wind up to running that would be interesting. These specific things aren't necessarily what I'd like but it would be fun to see the schools have a difference in how they have been recovering and working on themselves since the Second Dream and the War Within.

Honestly it would be nice if these fit more into the waybounds since a lot of the current ones feel rather lack-luster and things like extra Health, innate health regen, armor, bigger void blasts, etc. feel like it should of been a general thing with each school having substantial bonuses for the waybound that leave a much better impact. Though i would not mind if instead of just giving us a paultry +30% sprint speed bonus with operators, it instead gave +60~80% base movement on top of a +40~50% increase to jump height, sliding, etc. basically make the operator feel like it finally did enough exercise to be in shape.

Waybounds are the least of the many issues on warframe, but i would rather they have a 6th node called the `general reconditioning from Stasis sleep`, where it could of served as a much cheaper node and would greatly increase the physical capability of the operator while covering alot of the existing way bounds with better values and maybe even grant special nodes to get focus for that node which mainly act as the operator doing `trials to get in shape`. Granted that is just me being thirsty for better rewards on a grindie system, but i would like operators to be able to have 75% of the capability for decent movement, especially when D.E. should just let operators be able to unlock the ability to do similar mobility actions to the warframes, such as using void abilities to cling/slide across walls, hover in the air, let us do a ground slam in a void dash like manner and have it evolve into a design that gives it a different feel then a warframe in a FUN-way.

The ultimate meaning to make a good game is to make sure the game is FUN, cause if any company skips out on fun-mechanics in a game to instead pursue lazy designs or even greedy ones, well they better have a back up plan to deal with players being ticked at continuous boring gameplay releases/b.s. micro transaction systems.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Avienas

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-10-23 at 12:27 AM, Cloudyvisage said:

Operators are a useful bag of tricks for any tenno, they aren't the strongest thing around, nor the most durable, nor the most mobile, but they are above average in each category. A speed runner Nova would certainly beat a kiddo with only void dash as they have no longevity but a normal frame would lose. A tank would lose in durability but a caster frame is would go down faster than a kiddo. The Amps are all over the place but if you build them right they can beat out a good number of weapons though they simply can't beat everything. Invisibility.

Yeah, but what's the point? I already have a decent Warframe with decent guns and decent abilities. What use do I have for an Operator who's essentially a mostly hobbled Warframe with very few unique abilities of their own? Just about the only thing I use my Operator any more is easy access to Stealth and silenced weapons, and that in itself is only really useful in Spy missions. If Operators are going to be "like my Warframe but not as good," what's the point?

[Cloudyvisage]

 

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, but what's the point? I already have a decent Warframe with decent guns and decent abilities. What use do I have for an Operator who's essentially a mostly hobbled Warframe with very few unique abilities of their own? Just about the only thing I use my Operator any more is easy access to Stealth and silenced weapons, and that in itself is only really useful in Spy missions. If Operators are going to be "like my Warframe but not as good," what's the point?

Because they can do a little of almost everything, as you mentioned, stealth is an option from Kiddo's so any frame has access to stealth. Any frame has access to rapid fire dashes, any frame has access to quick invulnerability, any frame has access to a quick knowdown/scatter. Most of these things can be replicated by frames, or even weapons but they can all be available no matter your build because of kiddo, even the knockdown effect is still a bit usable despite us having melee weapon slam attacks as it can be used from invulnerability.

[George_PPS]

Overall great idea to make operator move faster and become stronger. They should be given more abilities and items to max in Focus Schools as well. 

[Steel_Rook]

18 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

Because they can do a little of almost everything, as you mentioned, stealth is an option from Kiddo's so any frame has access to stealth. Any frame has access to rapid fire dashes, any frame has access to quick invulnerability, any frame has access to a quick knowdown/scatter. Most of these things can be replicated by frames, or even weapons but they can all be available no matter your build because of kiddo, even the knockdown effect is still a bit usable despite us having melee weapon slam attacks as it can be used from invulnerability.

Right, but all of that stuff is "neat" at best and certainly not worth the monstrously boring grind needed to get there. If a major redesign of the Operator system isn't in the cards (and it might be, you never know), then at the very least the Focus progression system needs to be made a LOT less grindy and a LOT less S#&$. Sure, a maxed-out Operator can be handy at times if fiddly to make real use out of, but how many people do you reasonably expect to have even one set of Waybounts, much less all of them? In my usual "worth = value - cost" estimate, Operators have FAR to high a cost for the value they bring.

[Teridax68]

29 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Right, but all of that stuff is "neat" at best and certainly not worth the monstrously boring grind needed to get there. If a major redesign of the Operator system isn't in the cards (and it might be, you never know), then at the very least the Focus progression system needs to be made a LOT less grindy and a LOT less S#&$. Sure, a maxed-out Operator can be handy at times if fiddly to make real use out of, but how many people do you reasonably expect to have even one set of Waybounts, much less all of them? In my usual "worth = value - cost" estimate, Operators have FAR to high a cost for the value they bring.

I have to agree with this, which is why I feel like the OP's proposals are still a bit timid in this respect, though commendable nonetheless. Operators are still terrible in combat, even with maxed-out Focus and arcanes, and outside of Void Dash bursts aren't really good at moving around either, so there's that much to catch up on. Even if they were as good at fighting as our warframes, though, that in itself wouldn't justify their existence, as they lack a unique contribution outside of some plot-related gimmicks. DE still needs to figure out what they want Operators to contribute when they fight, and has the difficult task of making sure they do something useful and desirable, yet also complementary to our warframes. Personally, I like the fact that Operators provide utility and assistance to our frames in various ways, so if they were competent at the things we usually do, while also being able to consistently play off of our frames mid-fight, they'd likely feel a lot better.

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

On 2019-10-23 at 1:40 PM, Kaggelos said:

As a side note, personally I really like using operators, it gives variety and they have some really cool abilities that are necessary for combat in specific missions. Also, make Energizing Dash Way-bound/Universal for all schools.

The entire point of balancing and having different focus schools is to separate and balance the different thing you can have with each school. If you want Energizing Dash, just run zeneurik.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

20 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

Yeah, but what's the point? I already have a decent Warframe with decent guns and decent abilities.

How about for funs sake. People keep forgetting that this is a game and a game is meant to be fun if ppl don`t like the operators fine don`t use them. Me personally I like using the operator so I hope with the duviri paradox will improve the operators.

On 2019-10-23 at 7:32 PM, Loza03 said:

Bear in mind their whole schtick is that it is their spiritual power made manifest through the void, not their physical prowess, that defines them. So whilst some of these can (and I agree, should) be implemented, they should have it done via their void powers, not physical strength.

I see what you are saying however I care more about "is it fun?" over it making sense I`m not saying that making sense is meant to be thrown out of the window but the operators should not be restricted in movement just for it to make sense.

[Loza03]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I see what you are saying however I care more about "is it fun?" over it making sense I`m not saying that making sense is meant to be thrown out of the window but the operators should not be restricted in movement just for it to make sense.

If I was just using that as an excuse than I wouldn't have suggested alternatives that fit better, such as the Vergil-esque dodge.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Speaking of operators, I would like to see some operator only missions. just imagine if it was like the suicide mission at the end of Mass Effect 2 e.g. the operators could split up into two teams to reach the goal, vazarin can use bubble to protect other operators from the toxic air or naramon could go into the vents to open doors for other operators, that would be sick as heck. I also came up with my own operator mission, if you want a look here it is.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by (PS4)Vexx757