Why I Won't be Buying Atlas Prime Access

[Sevek7]

Hi Everyone! I wanted to write a post here about the trends of warframe's updates over the last two years, and why those trends have convinced me to stop supporting the game - at least for the time being. The purpose of this post is so that if the developers notice that the prime access sales suddenly drop, they might look to this feedback (and others) in an attempt to figure out why some players are losing interest. I will also include brief suggestions so that I am not simply shouting into the void. Feel free to post your own thoughts below, but please remember that not all warframe players want the same things - our differing opinions don't mean that either one of us is right or wrong. Please note that there will be spoilers for story quests below.

1) The complete lack of difficulty in all the PvE missions. There is a panic button to immediately negate all damage (Press 5 for operator) and also allow full healing (Vazarin, magus elevate/repair/nourish) before getting back into the warframe. This means the only possible difficulty is when enemies kill the player in a single hit, hence why armor frames with various forms of damage reduction have become to go-to for so many. The other forms of difficulty (killing enemies fast enough in ESO, defending defense targets, etc...) are also entirely trivial for the seasoned player. Add all this to the fact that the warframes themselves are incredibly powerful.

Obvious Suggestions: Operator cooldown, or certain missions where the operator is not usable. Missions with modifiers like: all focus schools' abilities temporarily unavailable, or all arcane effects negated. Missions where all mods retain only 20% of their effects, reduced weapon / ability damage, reduced armor, increased enemy durability. Remove or rework adaptation, since it's antithetical to the entire game. 

Non-obvious suggestion: First enemy attack is capped at 10% of your max EHP, if you receive another attack within 5 seconds it's capped to 20% of your max EHP, Next is 30%, etc... (These numbers can of course be changed to suit the level of difficulty we want) Sequence resets upon taking no damage for 5 full seconds. This needs to be coupled with operator cooldown / other things listed above to reduce ability to heal. It will slow down the tenno dying, and stop being killed in 1 shot, will encourage dodging and taking cover, using CC abilities, etc... My hope here is that slowing down death will make a situation where the player has to decide between staying in an engagement or taking cover. As a new player, I remember running for cover whenever my shields went down. Now, as a seasoned player, I barrel into groups of enemies and absolutely wreck them all, until the moment where I get hit and die instantly (somewhere around 2 hours in arbitration.) Thus I don't feel the difficulty until it's already too late. That death must be slowed down so that I can react, but not with jumping into operator mode, instead with running for cover and hoping I can make it to safety before I die. The fact that I can currently take cover in an instant just by pressing 5 is a problem.

2) The constant dumbing-down of the game, making weapons or mods that require skill far worse than those that don't. This is a problem that is best desribed by four examples. 

Example 1: Magus Lockdown. Against high level enemies, only revenant's reave and covert lethality can do higher damage to enemies. Yet, magus lockdown requires no aiming, and also no risk since the operator is invulnerable the whole time. Why does extremely high damage require extremely low skill?

Example 2: Catchmoon versus every other crit based semi-auto secondary. Consider the Lex Prime, it requires skill to aim and takes out single enemies, it feels great but is totally unrewarding when compared to the catchmoon. The Catchmoon requires extremely little aim, wrecks entire groups of enemies, and far out-damages the Lex Prime. Not to mention it allows you to use pax arcanes too. This has become characteristic of warframe's updates over the last few years, single weapons are introduced that negate the usefulness of an entire class of other weapons, all of which required more skill to use. Please, weapons that require more skill should reward that skill requirement, not punish it. 

Example 3: Melee weapons. I know that melee 3.0 is coming so this might not be relevant in a few months, but still it serves as a good example of the issues I'm desribing. Melee is the strongest weapon class due to the incredible mods (Blood Rush, Maiming Strike, Condition Overload, Weeping Wounds) and a combo counter further increasing damage. Add that to the fact that they can hit entire groups of enemies at once. Firstly, short range melee weapons require far more skill to use, but typically they actually have less damage potential than the high range ones. So, this is another example of some weapons being just so good that they negate the usability of 80% of the other weapons. Next, the argument for why melee weapons should be so much stronger is typically that melee playstyles are riskier since you're going toe-to-toe with the enemies in tight spaces. This is simply not true, if you engage a group of enemies at a distance then you receive all their incoming fire. If you engage them in melee, then typically several enemies get stuck behind each other, obscuring each others' vision, and stop attacking you. Also, melee is highly mobile, so you are in fact less likely to take a hit while swinging your melee weapon than you are while aim gliding pulling off skilled shots with a ranged weapon. Therefore, melee is actually the safest and easiest playstyle, and the game rewards you for choosing the least-skill-required method.

Example 4: Adaptation. Here we have a mod that rewards you for taking damage. One of the absolute best things about warframe is the mobility, it's extremely fun and fluid, and feels good to use. Why are the developers introducing mods that punish using that mobility? This is a game about "space ninjas" where it's optimal to be stationary. This is antithetical to the entire game's premise. 

Obvious Suggestions: I understand that the MR requirement of weapons should help dictate their damage potential, but among similar ranked weapons, the ones requiring more skill should do more damage. Currently, we have the opposite situation. So, a rebalance would be useful to make high-skill weapons do more damage than low-skill weapons. I hope that this is not a controversial opinion. Remove or rework adaptation because encouraging lazier playstyles is not a good thing.

3) The lack of development in PvP. Look, I understand a lot of people don't like conclave, and I also understand that a lot of people don't like PvP content in general. But, in any online game, PvP is a large part of the endgame. Even if raids come back, or some other endgame PvE mode is developed, eventually we'll all understand the mechanics and find a way to do it efficiently (That's not to say we won't enjoy it, hopefully that endgame PvE mode would be fun and include a replayability factor!). PvP is different because your opponents are always unpredictable, and the health of the PvP community is always a good indicator of the health of a game (it's not the only indicator, but it is significant.) PvP is also typically what people do when they have "finished" all of the PvE content in a game. So, in a game where PvP is neglected, the obvious result is very loud and very frequent complaints of "content drought." Sound familiar? 

Obvious Suggestion: Work on conclave, or rework it, just do something!

 

Overall Message: The developers keep saying that challenge and difficulty is coming, and I have kept on believing them. For years. The fact that almost all developments over the last two years have done the exact opposite of that intent has shaken my belief. If new updates begin to re-prioritize that intent, then I'll begin supporting the game again. For now, I'll spend money elsewhere.

[NullSaint]

Ok.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Ok.

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

what does this have to do with buying the Atlas prime access?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Disagree at will. You can. And do vote with your wallet. But don't be surprised if a minority vote doesn't really change anything.

[Sloan441]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

what does this have to do with buying the Atlas prime access?

Was wondering that myself. 

Since we're all unfulfilled when it comes to reasons for not buying the Atlas PA, I'll step into the breach. 

I won't by buying the Atlas PA because I almost never buy PAs. I like farming my stuff up and buying it actually deprives you of gameplay. The only PA I ever bought was the Valkyr one because I wanted the forum avatar. That's it. 

I might, however, buy the accessories pack. I kinda like that syandana. Need to actually see one first, but...kinda liking it. We'll see. 😉

[Walkampf]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Sevek7:

1) The complete lack of difficulty in all the PvE missions. There is a panic button to immediately negate all damage (Press 5 for operator)

How about, let's say, you simply don't use press X to win mechanics?

Difficulty is an absolutly subjective issue. This is, why single player games often feature different difficulty modes.

Some people might be only able to beat certian missions with actually using some of the stronger mechanics.

Ifr you are so much better then the dirty casuals, good for you, my most elite overlord!

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Was wondering that myself. 

Since we're all unfulfilled when it comes to reasons for not buying the Atlas PA, I'll step into the breach. 

I won't by buying the Atlas PA because I almost never buy PAs. I like farming my stuff up and buying it actually deprives you of gameplay. The only PA I ever bought was the Valkyr one because I wanted the forum avatar. That's it. 

I might, however, buy the accessories pack. I kinda like that syandana. Need to actually see one first, but...kinda liking it. We'll see. 😉

i hardly every buy prime access but i do buy the accessories as they come out. 

Being MR 27 i dont have much to do so i like grinding for relics and opening them with my friends.

[Sevek7]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Mordecai_Vrykul said:

what does this have to do with buying the Atlas prime access?

People buying prime access is one of the ways the game is monetarily supported.

6 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

How about, let's say, you simply don't use press X to win mechanics?

Difficulty is an absolutly subjective issue. This is, why single player games often feature different difficulty modes.

Some people might be only able to beat certian missions with actually using some of the stronger mechanics.

Ifr you are so much better then the dirty casuals, good for you, my most elite overlord!

You're right that we don't need to use certain mechanics, and that is the method I usually employ. However, I find it bothersome when a game that had difficulty adds new "Press X to win" mechanics, effectively removing a large chunk of the difficulty it once had - if players choose to use it. I'm not sure about the logic you used to convert that argument into a "elitist says dirty casuals" thing, since everybody who has completed the story quests has access to this mechanic. It's fine that the game caters a lot to new players, what's problematic is when the game caters only to new players.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Disagree at will. You can. And do vote with your wallet. But don't be surprised if a minority vote doesn't really change anything.

You're right, it most likely won't change anything, I mostly made this post for cathartic reasons. However, if the atlas prime access sales do end up flopping, there is a hope that some of this feedback is taken seriously.

 

[Cyclouros]

Well "space ninjas" is a fake description, we are not ninjas at all. DE just uses that term because they are huge weebs.

[Sevek7]

2 minutes ago, Cyclouros said:

Well "space ninjas" is a fake description, we are not ninjas at all. DE just uses that term because they are huge weebs.

Fair enough! Nevertheless the mobility in the game is a huge amount of fun and it's sad to see us punished for using it.

[Cyclouros]

10 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Fair enough! Nevertheless the mobility in the game is a huge amount of fun and it's sad to see us punished for using it.

I don't know about that, we recently got a bunch of mods that rewards us for being mobile. The motus ones.

[Walkampf]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Sevek7:

You're right that we don't need to use certain mechanics, and that is the method I usually employ. However, I find it bothersome when a game that had difficulty adds new "Press X to win" mechanics, effectively removing a large chunk of the difficulty it once had - if players choose to use it.

Dear god... you are a bit in the slow side, hm?

When DE implements stronger mechanics it doesn't take away anything.

It is YOUR choice to use stronger tools or not.

If you decide to shoot sparrows with cannons it's entirely on you. It's your choice.

DE hardly ever nerfs anything, even enemies. They don't actually take anything away.

However, what is taken away is people being able to show of their oh-so-great ingame achievments, wich make them a unique little snowflake.
Now, with stronger mechanics, other people are also able to reach the same heights as you. You can't boast to other players how much better you are then them. So you are not 'special' anymore and your selfconfidence takes a hit.

That's really all there is to the issue.

[000l000]

Not sure the whole "i'll stop supporting your game cause it sucks" argument was necessary, you could have created a simple feedback thread tbh, it would trigger less people. 🙄

Anyway, there's a lot to discuss about all your points. Warframe is more a collection game than anything else, even if some missions are obviously made to please older players (not really endgame but more tedious or punitive content). Problem is that no one forces you to play overpowered frames with overpowered weapons either, one can also have fun trying fun builds or underrated guns etc. I really thinnk there's a misconception of the whole game there, most people are only stupidly grinding everything just like any other MMO but if you do that you're really missing all the fun. ("you" is rhetorical).

Melee upcoming changes can be interesting to discuss though cause that's the biggest update to come, and we don't know much about it yet. As far as i'm concerned i think that melee definitely should have a risk/reward factor. Dealing more damage with melee weapons is legit but it should be more punitive, hence melee enemies dealing more damages. Cause once you're at close range, you can't avoid much this kind of enemies as opposed to range gameplay.

What this game really needs apart from some balance tweaks is a far better AI and really smart gameplay. Enemies are really dumb in this game. Smater enemies and more tactical approach of most fights (stronger eximus for example, with various mechanics/weak points) would bring a lot of fun, and most importantly difficulty. Problem is that working on AI in most games nowadays is almost always optional, they prefer to work on fancy stuff to put fancy screenshots on twitter, but in the end AI is what makes fights interesting.

AI overhaul should come with or after melee 3.0, including pets AI of course.

Edited October 4, 2019 by 000l000

[Ham_Grenabe]

 

1 hour ago, NullSaint said:

Ok.

I think it's worth emphasiszing: "Ok." 

[Sevek7]

8 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Dear god... you are a bit in the slow side, hm?

When DE implements stronger mechanics it doesn't take away anything.

It is YOUR choice to use stronger tools or not.

If you decide to shoot sparrows with cannons it's entirely on you. It's your choice.

DE hardly ever nerfs anything, even enemies. They don't actually take anything away.

However, what is taken away is people being able to show of their oh-so-great ingame achievments, wich make them a unique little snowflake.
Now, with stronger mechanics, other people are also able to reach the same heights as you. You can't boast to other players how much better you are then them. So you are not 'special' anymore and your selfconfidence takes a hit.

That's really all there is to the issue.

I said you're right. I conceded my point and agreed with you. I don't know what prompted this reaction. 

 

8 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Not sure the whole "i'll stop supporting your game cause it sucks" argument was necessary, you could have created a simple feedback thread tbh, it would trigger less people. 🙄

Anyway, there's a lot to discuss about all your points. Warframe is more a collection game than anything else, even if some missions are obviously made to please older players (not really endgame but more tedious or punitive content). Problem is that no one forces you to play overpowered frames with overpowered weapons either, one can also have fun trying fun builds or underrated guns etc. I really thinnk there's a misconception of the whole game there, most people are only stupidly grinding everything just like any other MMO but if you do that you're really missing all the fun. ("you" is rhetorical).

Melee upcoming changes can be interesting to discuss though cause that's the biggest update to come, and we don't know much about it yet. As far as i'm concerned i think that melee definitely should have a risk/reward factor. Dealing more damage with melee weapons is legit but it should be more punitive, hence melee enemies dealing more damages. Cause once you're at close range, you can't avoid much this kind of enemies as opposed to range gameplay.

What this game really needs apart from some balance tweaks is a far better AI and really smart gameplay. Enemies are really dumb in this game. Smater enemies and more tactical approach of most fights (stronger eximus for example, with various mechanics/weak points) would bring a lot of fun, and most importantly difficulty. Problem is that working on AI in most games nowadays is almost always optional, they prefer to work on fancy stuff to put fancy screenshots on twitter, but in the end AI is what makes fights interesting.

AI overhaul should come with or after melee 3.0, including pets AI of course.

Please don't misquote what I said. I never said "i'll stop supporting your game cause it sucks," in fact I said that I really enjoy the game but I'm disappointed that the things I enjoy are being actively discouraged (mobility & high-skill weapons). You then say "you could have created a simple feedback thread tbh," isn't that what this is? I'm confused here, I made a thread with feedback in the feedback section, how is this not a feedback thread? Please explain.

I agree 100% with your second paragraph, in fact I think you're essentially restating one of my points. I enjoy using underrated weapons as I mentioned in my post, I just wish that skill/reward was more balanced. I also agree with you that melee should be more dangerous to make up for the far increased damage that we do in melee range! You're right that the game would benefit from better AI, but I think it might not make a huge difference if they remain so weak. I would enjoy seeing grineer roll for cover and things like that though 🙂

I'm also looking forward to melee 3.0, hopefully it adds more fluidity to a lot of the stances and makes the weapons feel fresh!

 

 

[Walkampf]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Sevek7:

I conceded my point and agreed with you. I don't know what prompted this reaction. 

This is the cause for the reaction. You contradicct yourself.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Sevek7:

I find it bothersome when a game that had difficulty adds new "Press X to win" mechanics, effectively removing a large chunk of the difficulty it once had

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Walkampf

[Zyga21]

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

1) The complete lack of difficulty in all the PvE missions.

that's fine, you kill literally millions of enemies in this game, they're not supposed to be hard, yet players go down all the time because there is a challenge when the game throws hordes of bees at you, eventually the stinging gets to you. Thats the type of game this is, it's not a FPS where you're on the same level as your enemies. Plus they're adding in enemies that are able to challenge you, so just be patient my child.

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

Obvious Suggestions: Operator cooldown, or certain missions where the operator is not usable. Missions with modifiers like: all focus schools' abilities temporarily unavailable, or all arcane effects negated. Missions where all mods retain only 20% of their effects, reduced weapon / ability damage, reduced armor, increased enemy durability. Remove or rework adaptation, since it's antithetical to the entire game. 

this is terrible, if you don't like how you can use your operator to negate damage then don't use it, you can't really do much as an operator anyway, this same issue was brought up with the damage negation from the airborne DR aura mods, yeah you can be invulnerable in warframe.... but does that even mean anything? more often than not youre defending objectives that are not your warframe's health bar, you lose not when you die, but when you fail to protect some other weaker thing.

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

Non-obvious suggestion: First enemy attack is capped at 10% of your max EHP, if you receive another attack within 5 seconds it's capped to 20% of your max EHP, Next is 30%, etc... (These numbers can of course be changed to suit the level of difficulty we want) Sequence resets upon taking no damage for 5 full seconds. This needs to be coupled with operator cooldown / other things listed above to reduce ability to heal. It will slow down the tenno dying, and stop being killed in 1 shot, will encourage dodging and taking cover, using CC abilities, etc... My hope here is that slowing down death will make a situation where the player has to decide between staying in an engagement or taking cover. As a new player, I remember running for cover whenever my shields went down. Now, as a seasoned player, I barrel into groups of enemies and absolutely wreck them all, until the moment where I get hit and die instantly (somewhere around 2 hours in arbitration.) Thus I don't feel the difficulty until it's already too late. That death must be slowed down so that I can react, but not with jumping into operator mode, instead with running for cover and hoping I can make it to safety before I die. The fact that I can currently take cover in an instant just by pressing 5 is a problem.

pressing 5 is not a problem, as stated before, it's not you that matters, its your objective. As soon as you cap damage in this way you might as well play the game where everyone has 5 health, and each time they get hit it always deals one damage with it gating. that's not interesting for gameplay, to me that just says "tank all your defensive stats because they don't matter" health should stay the same as it is now, yes theres an issue with enemy damage at very high levels, but that's also kind of the risk of high levels.

On the other hand; if they introduced a mod that gave you health gating, this would solve that issue while also providing a tangible choice for the players "do I really need 99/50/33/25/20% health gate on inaros, or will it just be better to run adaptation/vigor instead?"

 

2 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Magus Lockdown

it's puncture damage which gets reduced when you go vs enemies with armour, while it's good, and while it scales with enemies, the range is limited and it doesnt work on bosses. There are other scaling damage sources, but this is not a problem because they give the ability to play later game content.

2 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Example 2: Catchmoon versus every other crit based semi-auto secondary.

so then use the lex, it's not like you need to deal a million damage to kill a random grineer, if you enjoy using it, for most the content in the game it works, and for the content it doesnt cover, everything has a falloff point except for things that scale. It's not a big deal.

2 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Example 3: Melee weapons. I know that melee 3.0 is coming so this might not be relevant in a few months

correct

2 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Example 4: Adaptation. Here we have a mod that rewards you for taking damage. One of the absolute best things about warframe is the mobility, it's extremely fun and fluid, and feels good to use. Why are the developers introducing mods that punish using that mobility? This is a game about "space ninjas" where it's optimal to be stationary. This is antithetical to the entire game's premise. 

this is what's called a choice, you can choose to take a mod like this because you expect to be hit a lot playing say inaros. that's ok, this mod is for you, and if you don't expect to be hit by anything, like an invisible unit, or titania etc, then this mod isn't for you, it's not rocket science. Not all mods are meant for all situations, that would be boring.

2 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

3) The lack of development in PvP. Look, I understand a lot of people don't like conclave, and I also understand that a lot of people don't like PvP content in general. But, in any online game, PvP is a large part of the endgame. Even if raids come back, or some other endgame PvE mode is developed, eventually we'll all understand the mechanics and find a way to do it efficiently (That's not to say we won't enjoy it, hopefully that endgame PvE mode would be fun and include a replayability factor!). PvP is different because your opponents are always unpredictable, and the health of the PvP community is always a good indicator of the health of a game (it's not the only indicator, but it is significant.) PvP is also typically what people do when they have "finished" all of the PvE content in a game. So, in a game where PvP is neglected, the obvious result is very loud and very frequent complaints of "content drought." Sound familiar? 

Obvious Suggestion: Work on conclave, or rework it, just do something!

ahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah some people like pvp, I'm not one of those, they should work on it. but kind of like your comment about melee weapons, they're working on it and it will come soon:tm: so just chill. they have a lot on their plate, not everything will get done in a week.

 

You seem like you just want somewhere to vent all your frustrations with the game, but a lot of these are personal problems, if you don't like how you're playing the game then change the way you play. if you find it fun to dink around with the wolf sledge instead of the atterax, nobody is stopping you.

[Zyga21]

2 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

I won't by buying the Atlas PA because I almost never buy PAs. I like farming my stuff up and buying it actually deprives you of gameplay. The only PA I ever bought was the Valkyr one because I wanted the forum avatar. That's it. 

I might, however, buy the accessories pack. I kinda like that syandana. Need to actually see one first, but...kinda liking it. We'll see. 😉

I feel the same way, but I really wanted that cape from equinox and the ephemera from wukong, nothing I'm too interested in this time around, nor do I need plat really so I'll be skipping out too. not by any fault of DE, just because I like to play the game. Nice to see that someone can understand when it's time for them to either buy or not buy a PA.

 

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

Fair enough! Nevertheless the mobility in the game is a huge amount of fun and it's sad to see us punished for using it.

If you do choose to do put on adaptation and run around the map as a space ninja, you're being punished for making a poor choice of a mod slot, not for playing the game the way you like. Take off the mod, put something like +evasion or DR while airborne on.

[Sevek7]

28 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

This is the cause for the reaction. You contradicct yourself.

 

I said you're right, but I still find it bothersome, that is not a contradiction. Essentially stating: "You are correct that if I don't like some extremely powerful mechanic, I don't have to use it. But I'm still bothered that it exists in the game, because I worry about what it says for the difficulty level the game is intended to have." 

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

Dear god... you are a bit in the slow side, hm?

When DE implements stronger mechanics it doesn't take away anything.

It is YOUR choice to use stronger tools or not.

If you decide to shoot sparrows with cannons it's entirely on you. It's your choice.

DE hardly ever nerfs anything, even enemies. They don't actually take anything away.

However, what is taken away is people being able to show of their oh-so-great ingame achievments, wich make them a unique little snowflake.
Now, with stronger mechanics, other people are also able to reach the same heights as you. You can't boast to other players how much better you are then them. So you are not 'special' anymore and your selfconfidence takes a hit.

That's really all there is to the issue.

This is not an appropriate reply to that statement. Purposefully mischaracterizing what I said and using that as a springboard to insult me with things like "slow," "snowflake," and a need to be "special" makes it look like you came online today to insult someone, and were looking for any excuse to do so.

[Sevek7]

23 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

that's fine, you kill literally millions of enemies in this game, they're not supposed to be hard, yet players go down all the time because there is a challenge when the game throws hordes of bees at you, eventually the stinging gets to you. Thats the type of game this is, it's not a FPS where you're on the same level as your enemies. Plus they're adding in enemies that are able to challenge you, so just be patient my child.

this is terrible, if you don't like how you can use your operator to negate damage then don't use it, you can't really do much as an operator anyway, this same issue was brought up with the damage negation from the airborne DR aura mods, yeah you can be invulnerable in warframe.... but does that even mean anything? more often than not youre defending objectives that are not your warframe's health bar, you lose not when you die, but when you fail to protect some other weaker thing.

pressing 5 is not a problem, as stated before, it's not you that matters, its your objective. As soon as you cap damage in this way you might as well play the game where everyone has 5 health, and each time they get hit it always deals one damage with it gating. that's not interesting for gameplay, to me that just says "tank all your defensive stats because they don't matter" health should stay the same as it is now, yes theres an issue with enemy damage at very high levels, but that's also kind of the risk of high levels.

On the other hand; if they introduced a mod that gave you health gating, this would solve that issue while also providing a tangible choice for the players "do I really need 99/50/33/25/20% health gate on inaros, or will it just be better to run adaptation/vigor instead?"

 

it's puncture damage which gets reduced when you go vs enemies with armour, while it's good, and while it scales with enemies, the range is limited and it doesnt work on bosses. There are other scaling damage sources, but this is not a problem because they give the ability to play later game content.

so then use the lex, it's not like you need to deal a million damage to kill a random grineer, if you enjoy using it, for most the content in the game it works, and for the content it doesnt cover, everything has a falloff point except for things that scale. It's not a big deal.

correct

this is what's called a choice, you can choose to take a mod like this because you expect to be hit a lot playing say inaros. that's ok, this mod is for you, and if you don't expect to be hit by anything, like an invisible unit, or titania etc, then this mod isn't for you, it's not rocket science. Not all mods are meant for all situations, that would be boring.

ahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah some people like pvp, I'm not one of those, they should work on it. but kind of like your comment about melee weapons, they're working on it and it will come soon:tm: so just chill. they have a lot on their plate, not everything will get done in a week.

 

You seem like you just want somewhere to vent all your frustrations with the game, but a lot of these are personal problems, if you don't like how you're playing the game then change the way you play. if you find it fun to dink around with the wolf sledge instead of the atterax, nobody is stopping you.

I agree with the majority of the points you made. I hope you're right that they are adding new enemies that present a greater challenge, that would be great! You're right that the operator suggestion is extremely flawed, it would certainly mess up eidolon hunts a great deal! However, your statement that "you can't really do much as an operator anyway" I take issue with. The operator is immensely powerful when the focus schools are unlocked and with the right operator arcanes. You specifically mentioned defending weak defense targets. The operator with vazarin school unlocked heals all damage and makes the defense target invulnerable. So, pressing 5 makes not only you invulnerable, pressing 5 and crouch and jump makes you and your defense target invulnerable. 

You're also right that the health gating mechanism is deeply flawed, but the current state where players have no perceived difficulty at all until very suddenly they die is not great. My hope was that gating ehp and removing some of the easier healing techniques that had no tradeoff would be a good springboard to come up with more refined ideas. You're right that magus lockdown deals less damage to shields and armored enemies, but those can always be removed with the correct auras in the squad. 

I do use the lex! In fact I love it 😄 I was just using it as an example of how high-skill weapons consistently perform below the level of low-skill weapons. I feel like this is an oversight by the developers, and needs a rebalance. In the meantime I will continue to use the weapons I find fun, but I would prefer if good aim was rewarded.

You're right about adaptation, and I have started to remove it from many of my frames. I'm aware that it's not rocket science (thanks for that), but are we going to deny that some extremely powerful mods encourage a playstyle different from the theme of the game? Look, I'm all for people having choice in how to play the game, but the main point I was trying to get across is that a lot of the recent changes have seem to really encourage people to play the game in a way that is easier, lazier, and slower. I worry about this direction, but as somebody else pointed out the recent Motus set actually rewards higher mobility, so perhaps I am wrong about this one!

Yes, I also hope they are working on PvP, and melee, and all the other aspects of the game. I am not saying that these things need to get done in a single week, I'm not sure where you got the impression that I am impatient about these things. I am ready to wait as long as it takes, all I'm saying is that until content that makes me excited gets more attention, I won't be purchasing prime access / plat, etc... We as consumers drive the direction of the game with our wallets, rewarding good changes and punishing ones we don't like. We won't all agree on what's good and what's bad, but each person should make their personal position known via this method. 

Yes I did just want somewhere to vent all my frustrations with the game, that's why I went to the feedback section of the forums, is this not the correct place to do so? I am enjoying the game immensely, I am simply worried about the future and overall direction the game is taking. I think this worry is well-founded as a result of the last two years' updates, but not all will agree. Thanks for your response I value the discussion! 🙂 

[Zyga21]

18 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

The operator with vazarin school unlocked heals all damage and makes the defense target invulnerable. So, pressing 5 makes not only you invulnerable, pressing 5 and crouch and jump makes you and your defense target invulnerable. 

if you're playing a high defense and your only answer is to make your def target invuln for a few seconds and to heal it, you're going to have more issues than you think, with how much more damage the enemies are deal that also means that the def objective will be taking more damage, unless you spend the entire time giving it invlun then you're not really doing anything, you're just repairing what damage has been done. regardless this is another scaling mechanic. it's great to have as a tool for players who like playing high end content, but it does not ensure you always win.

20 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

My hope was that gating ehp and removing some of the easier healing techniques that had no tradeoff would be a good springboard to come up with more refined ideas.

as I stated before this is a terrible idea, it limits us to playing in the way that you think is appropriate, as a choice this is ok because it gives us a choice to play this way, but to have it for everyone always, is not.

21 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

I do use the lex! In fact I love it 😄

great, and other people like using the kitguns, to each their own.

22 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

but are we going to deny that some extremely powerful mods encourage a playstyle different from the theme of the game?

yes, you're given these mods as choices so that you can play the game in different ways. and it's hard to say that there's a theme of the game, there are many different ways you can play it, and I think inaros is possibly one of the furthest away from being a space ninja, he's a space deity of Egyptian origin, god of never dying, adaptation lets him take more hits, it enables him to play longer. it's Fine not everyone is ash and that's ok. There's nothing wrong with allowing players to be walls, yes the game encourages space ninja play, but it should also allow you to play other ways too.

26 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I am impatient about these things. I am ready to wait as long as it takes, all I'm saying is that until content that makes me excited gets more attention, I won't be purchasing prime access / plat, etc... We as consumers drive the direction of the game with our wallets, rewarding good changes and punishing ones we don't like. We won't all agree on what's good and what's bad, but each person should make their personal position known via this method. 

Some of the things you could think about as what goes into buying atlas PA is the disruption game mode extension and gauss and grendal and dog days etc, they've been doing stuff. I would see it more fit to "punish" them if you hated all the content of this past PA cycle, that makes more sense than withholding support until you get what you want, then it just seems like you're impatient for something. That's why I get that impression. you're punishing when theyre doing something good because you only want X thing later. They have been putting in a lot of work into the game in many different ways. If you don't support them, that's your choice, but I strongly disagree with it because it makes you look like you're throwing a fit because you didn't get what you wanted.

32 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Yes I did just want somewhere to vent all my frustrations with the game, that's why I went to the feedback section of the forums, is this not the correct place to do so?

venting isn't the same as feedback. if instead you laid out your issues with the game without threatening them with not paying it would seem more like feedback than just someone who's angry about XYZ not being prio #1 of DE. My suggestion for a place to vent is something like general chat in game, it's great because you can be as outraged as you want and have discussion about it, and then later come back to the feedback forums to post actually constructive criticism of what's going on. There's a lack of critical thought in your post because it doesn't think past the first step for most of it, you're only thinking of yourself (mostly) in your original post, you need to understand it's a game for more people than just you.

 

I don't mean any disrespect, it's just that you clearly haven't come here with feedback, you came here guns blazing demanding answers for why you don't have your shiny new toy.

[Walkampf]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Sevek7:

because I worry about what it says for the difficulty level the game is intended to have.

As was pointed out numerous times by myself and others here, difficulty level is subjective. What is so hard to understand about that? Get off your high horse. You are not the standard that difficulty level is judged by.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Why I Won't be Buying Atlas Prime Access.

That's nice. I won't be buying it because I don't particularly like Atlas. 

Just that. Nothing else. That's the only reason I need. Don't need to go looking for other stuff to blame it on. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

You make a good point about the under-development of certain modes. Conclave in particular. The last balance pass conclave got was sometime in February, if I remember correctly. I agree with you about the difficulty of recent PvE content too. It is just becoming a sort of quasi gear check. Do you have x amp to do y effect to kill z enemy? If so, good. If not? You don't get invited by other players to complete the mission. Even though youd be able to kill y enemy just fine with another amp.

The community either complains that the content is too easy and they blow through it too fast (the pve content) or that it is too hard and it will take them forever to complete (conclave syndicate). Neither of those is actually case. It seems to me that it is just a problem with the attitude of the community.