Vauban & Ember Dev Workshop

[BCOOPS22]

A horizontal speed boost? What makes this any better than just bullet jumping, or how does it stand out against something like Volt's speed, which is ALSO his second ability, I was not impressed by that speed boost you get at all and I casually jump around at a much faster pace. There isn't a single minelayer that even seems good, puncture damage? Why can you just make it viral or gas? Also the 3... Just another flat damage ability which will not be used at all in high level gameplay, in fact the only thing that will be used is his new tesla drones and bastille, I really hope the duration on bastille hasn't  been nerfed, cause Vauban seems like he's in pretty much the same state as he was before. Say what you will about bounce pads, but I'd take them over the "speed" pad any day.

[Phaeronimus]

2 hours ago, BCOOPS22 said:

A horizontal speed boost? What makes this any better than just bullet jumping, or how does it stand out against something like Volt's speed, which is ALSO his second ability, I was not impressed by that speed boost you get at all and I casually jump around at a much faster pace. There isn't a single minelayer that even seems good, puncture damage? Why can you just make it viral or gas? Also the 3... Just another flat damage ability which will not be used at all in high level gameplay, in fact the only thing that will be used is his new tesla drones and bastille, I really hope the duration on bastille hasn't  been nerfed, cause Vauban seems like he's in pretty much the same state as he was before. Say what you will about bounce pads, but I'd take them over the "speed" pad any day.

The whole new Memelayer is a joke.He should have scraped the idea entirely and give him survivability that doesn't depend on the enemy...if he already doesn't know how to make them viable.
It's such a brainfart rework for the Minelayer..

[Feigardnir]

В 04.10.2019 в 21:06, [DE]Connor сказал:

INFERNO (replacing World On Fire)

Your again kill ember.

Nothing original. Fu.

[maycne.sonahoz]

Please make Fire Fright keep the fire ring from before, so that Ember keeps at least one objective-oriented ability.

[Xolgys]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Feigardnir:

Your again kill ember.

Nothing original. Fu.

u cant kill whats already 90% dead.

[Askorti]

I really wonder if DE is going to take any of the feedback that was provided in this thread, or introduce Ember and Vauban exactly the same as they presented them in the OP... I know they consider extending Ember's passive's range to affinity range, but somehow I'm not very optimistic.

[Phaeronimus]

1 hour ago, Askorti said:

I really wonder if DE is going to take any of the feedback that was provided in this thread, or introduce Ember and Vauban exactly the same as they presented them in the OP... I know they consider extending Ember's passive's range to affinity range, but somehow I'm not very optimistic.

Very unlikely,let alone adding a last minute new usefull mine(s) to Vauban's Minelayer.Such tragedy..

The update is tomorrow,right?

[Gold_Ingenium]

I rarely speak up on here, but I felt the need to this time, considering those are two frames that I play heavily

man did you guys went hard on Ember this time. Everything's already been said, but people who used her did so for her 4, and her high-level style relied heavily on aggressive CC, a style not found on any other frame, maximising firequake use & accelerant to take as much adventage as possible of the stun. Of course, her entire role as a low-level sweeper relied entirely on that ability as well. By giving her a nuke instead, you're making her a boring "press 4 for flashy effect & massive AoE damage" frame. Didn't we learn that those are bad from the old Saryn bomb days, and that they should be removed from the game ? This way, you completely changed ember's entire playstyle, for no apparent reason. You wouldn't remove Rhino's Ironskin, or Vauban's Bastille, or Frost's Snow Globe, so why would you change what "makes" Ember, well, Ember, ie WoF ? Reducing range because some people feel like it was too powerful is understandable as some kind of show of good will, but you made the correct choice to not change her 4 then, why would you make that mistake now ?

Others already went in detail over why changing her ult to LoS is a strict downgrade no matter the damage dealt, so I don't feel like I should expand on it much more

As for Vauban, Bastille/Vortex does not need to be a 100 base casting cost. I know it feels kind of thematic to have it on his 4, but one of the reasons that bastille was so like was that it had a relatively low power cost so that you could get creative with both your build and how you used the power, not to mention castion while moving. Unless you really want the 4th ability to cost 100 base for some reason, I feel like not a lot of people would care if that was Orbital Strike that took the fourth spot

[Wakeoflove]

I am back! And my thoughts on Vauban's rework are first and foremost: It seems like it's really hard to judge his abilities without seeing what happens when heavily modded. Range/duration/power could aggressively affect his kit in ways that might make him super good... I hope.

 

Tesla Drones:

Seem interesting. At first, I was far more excited thinking they would follow you around indefinitely and they would simply shock anything that came close to you, but the current design might work just fine/better in some way, we shall see.

 

Minelayer is... eh.

Ripline Mine:

Not mobile.

Seems like it only grabbed 2-3 enemies, which is suuuuper underwhelming, and if it prioritizes targeting nearby enemies, that "if something is outside of Bastille, you can pull them in" bit could easily be sabotaged by enemies that are already inside Bastille and are closer to the mine than those outside.

I don't know if the mine already behaves this way as the footage is limited, but it seems to me that if it is limited in the number of targets it grabs, that when a target dies during the duration of the mine, it should reach out and grab someone else in range with the free'd up ripline. But over all, it just seems redundant, Vauban's 4 has been turned into the ultimate CC with sucking in and hold on tap. So other CC powers in his kit seem like "why bother?" to me.

 

Nail Grenade:

Not mobile.

Seems like... Why? With immobile enemies, it is hard to gauge it's CC potential, but the damage looked like absolutely nothing, and again, there are other CC's in the kit so that I am not sure how this is not redundant. If it were primarily a damage mine, maybe that would make sense. And maybe modded for damage output, it might be just that... but on it's face... eh.

 

Boost Pad:

I agree with basically everyone else on this one, it just seems like a troll power and as far as team mobility support, it doesn't provide this function nearly as well as those on any other frame. I think an interesting alternative would be a portal pad or a tesseract pad, or whatever you want to call it. This pad could do bi-directional teleports between two points allowing one to hop back and forth between two places. This could essentially provide the same mobility properties that Nova's wormholes provide, but would specifically allow one to go back and forth between both ends for the duration. It can drop a portal mine directly in front of Vauban and one where he was aiming. I feel this could make for easier maintenance of trap locations and would fit in with the "Tower Defense" motif he seems to... essentially.... still have in this rework.

 

Damage Amp:

I agree that this will probably end up being his default option that all players go with given what I've seen of the other mines and their seemingly redundant utility. Also, how exactly does this perform? Is it a stationary mine that will zap any ally that comes close with a damage buff or is it like the Tesla drones and it latches on to allies? In which case, do multiples have to be laid down for them to latch on to each ally?

 

Orbital Strike:

Seems fine I guess. The charge up on it definitely looks iffy and like it requires CC to be effective, for by the time it goes off, mobile enemies could have easily moved out of range. Which I suspect is kind of the point... a forced synergy (but not overbearingly so) of you having to use his other abilities for this to be effective.

 

Bastile/Vortex:

Seems fine, but I would suggest allowing the "hold 4 to change from Bastille to Vortex" to also allow you to switch back out of Vortex to Bastille as well.

 

Overall:

Considering this as the mission statement for his rework:

"When revisiting Vauban, we aimed to retain his status as a crowd control powerhouse, while increasing his mobility and lethality to keep up with 2019 Warframe’s lightning-quick pace."

I would think that Vauban's redesign was supposed to move away from the "tower defense" aspect and keep him and his abilities mobile. Mine layer and Bastile/Vortex seem to be decidedly stuck in tower defense mode, and Tesla Drones start off mobile and "keep moving" but transition into sticking to enemies and holding the enemies up at the location they were triggered. So the drones seem to sort of go with mobility but then become potentially counterproductive once latched on.

I feel that his Bastille/Vortex abilities largely hold down the fort on retaining his "crowd control powerhouse" capabilities, while his mines mostly are all redundant in the shadow of his ultimate.

With his CC crown held on tight by his ultimate, I think it would have been far more interesting to double down on the "drones" concept in the rest of his kit. If he had been given drones that could switch between modes, I think that could have worked out really well. Drones could be set to attack mode and would fire on his targeting reticle whenever he attacked. They could fire long ranged weapons when Vauban uses a gun, they could turn into spinning blades or lash out with whip arms or something whenever he attacks in melee. If we bake the Tesla concept into them, they could fire railguns at long range targets and shock melee targets. Having the attack mode drones only attack when Vauban attacks would prevent them from being "set it and forget it" attackers.

They could be set to defense mode in which they would actively move to take the hits coming toward Vauban, body-blocking for him until they run out of hit points and are destroyed, or perhaps deploying energy shields that provide over-all damage reduction. They could produce a second shield bar that sits on top of Vauban's shields. Once depleted, the shield is completely offline until it fully recharges leaving Vauban's shield to take the hits, but once redeployed it allows Vauban's shields to regenerate underneath while it takes hits. Or maybe the drones fire "shield restoring" beams at Vauban that give him a constant shield regeneration rate, even while under fire. A similar effect to "hp regeneration" abilities except this one only applies to the shields. Lots of possibilities for a defense mode.

They could be set to mobility mode where Vauban could stand on the drones and they let him hover-skate around. (I.E. keeping the legs moving rather than going full on hover-board) or maybe they attach to his ankles/wrists/shoulders (depends on number of drones and their size, etc.) and give him thruster boosts to movement. This option would allow him to essentially retain his normal animation set just with boosted effects. They could also substantially enhance his jump in this mode, maybe even enhance his wall latch, deploying tethers to the wall to keep him latched longer/maybe even indefinitely.

I think that replacing the current Tesla Drones with the potentially still Tesla-themed "Support Drones" described above paired with Vauban's other skills would keep a healthy and delightful balance between Vauban's old "tower defense" kit and the mission statement of getting our boy moving and improving lethality.

Mine layer is confusing because it has traps that are completely outclassed by Bastille/Vortex and it has support/team support/utility powers that are just... suddenly, randomly in the kit. I suspect that this should either go one way or the other. Make this a full on tower defense trap power or a "utility/team support" power.

If going the all traps way, remove tether mine and stick in more consistent traps like a gravity amp trap that creates an area of effect that sticks weak but fast enemies to the floor and slows strong heavy enemies. This could be a tar trap, a oil slick trap, a time dialation (all actions slowed) trap, whatever. Make Nail Grenade aggressively a damage over time AOE trap. A portal pad could be a team utility/enemy trap that lets allies travel from point A to point B and from point B to point A depending on where they enter,  but it teleports enemies in opposite fashion so that they walk freely over the first portal point, but if they touch the second portal point, it sends them back to the first. This would allow Vauban to set up "trap paths" that the enemies go through over and over. The portals should be deployed in pairs, one directly in front of Vauban's position, the other where he aims. Finally, Might add a spike damage trap (the Nail Grenade providing steady DPS) that will detonate with high damage when triggered by enemy presence, but then takes time to recharge for another hit. Or this could be a high damage "turret" that hits hard but slow and prioritizes heavy units within range but will target light units with no heavies around.

If going the team support route, portal points are still good. Damage amp mine (totem) could literally amplify the damage the team outputs the way it does currently, or it could fire on any enemies that the team members in its influence are attacking. It could literally be a weaponized totem pole sticking out of the ground or a attack drone hive. A team support totem  "rally point" or "resupply" could fire shield reinforcing beams at anyone in the area, or might produce gentle healing pulses, or ammo restoring pulses, or maybe it does all three of these things at the same time, but each effect is quite subtle so as not to be OP or step on anyone's toes. Or if we are trying to get away from the stationary point defense type mechanics, Vauban could just launch drones that will attach to any allies within affinity range and provide them with the attack and or resupply effects depending on drones launched.

 

Anyway, I think the above suggestions also just feel more "engineer" than Vauban's current rework kit feels. I also have waaaay more ideas or mix and matches of what's above, but this has already turned into a short novel, so I'm going to leave it there.

[-Lazaroth-]

I don't know if at this point it's still valid to provide feedback and perhaps some of what I'm going to mention has been mentioned a few times, I'm sorry but reading 29 pages is a bit tedious.

Ember is one of my favorite Warframes, even though it wasn't used much in Endgame, I managed to get satisfactory results with her. In short, it was an active build where I had to switch continuously between primary weapon and melee, activated WoF to apply an additional status that benefited Condition Overload while using another weapon to take advantage of fire damage. So both 2, 3 and 4 were very useful. 

With these changes, I completely lose playstyle. I understand, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I like having to look for alternatives. What I see as problematic with this rework, Fireball, is very simple and tedious as before. It would be interesting a fireball that pierces or seeks enemies up to a certain limit, applying a status or spheres of fire surrounding Ember (like Nova) with a special mechanic where the balls absorb enemy gunfire, damage in the form of layers (like Revenant), etc, the idea itself is that it does not have so much micromanagement because playing with it becomes very problematic. There's no time to use Fireball at a time when it might just be better to use another ability.

It doesn't make sense that a Warframe completely focused on fire suffers from overheating to the point of losing all its energy. It could drain its energy gradually or it could make overheating make its abilities more powerful by reaching the maximum point where it loses 20% or 25% on the meter.  I don't want to have to check when I'm about to lose all my energy or if it happens at the worst possible time and I can't use any ability, it would be terrible to play like that.

Fireblast, pushing enemies doesn't seem right to me, pulling them in either, the ideal would be for the fire wave to expand as it hits enemies, as a kind of chain reaction or each enemy adds meters to the distance the shock wave travels.

Inferno should leave a scorching ground on contact, which applies heat status and has a small chance of causing fear in the enemy causing it to run which makes other enemies catch fire as well.

The overall idea is to make her more interesting and fun to play with.

[Djiggalag]

Poor Ember nor as not can to leave in alone, and do more relevant the same Loki nor as not rushing.

[ReynaAlba]

Can we bring back the old World on Fire? Before you nerfed her into unusability?  Coz this new ultimate doesn't seem very "ultimate-y" to be honest.

[(PSN)crash_razzer]

The rework for Vauban is mostly good, i just have complaints of his minelayer ability, it just doesn't offer much to add to his ability to kill except for the damage boost. I would like if it something a little more to really stop the enemy it just doesn't feel like these are the abilities that would just shut down the enemy completely the ability i really liked before was shred. I think that was cool it could kill on impact.  Most of the moves just kinda feel like he inconveniences  enemy without ever really dealing a decisive blow with his abilities. Orbital strike is cool but it could have been something a little more in touch with him like he could shoot lasers or something. It just doesn't really match to me though it looks cool. I liked that he was a lowkey frame and was too flashy but creative and could adapt well i think if it expanded more on that idea he would be more fun. I thought of him as a right tool for every job kinda frame but not really excelling. It probably doesn't matter now but i wanted to just comment.

[(PSN)crash_razzer]

On 2019-10-22 at 8:01 PM, Wakeoflove said:

I am back! And my thoughts on Vauban's rework are first and foremost: It seems like it's really hard to judge his abilities without seeing what happens when heavily modded. Range/duration/power could aggressively affect his kit in ways that might make him super good... I hope.

 

Tesla Drones:

Seem interesting. At first, I was far more excited thinking they would follow you around indefinitely and they would simply shock anything that came close to you, but the current design might work just fine/better in some way, we shall see.

 

Minelayer is... eh.

Ripline Mine:

Not mobile.

Seems like it only grabbed 2-3 enemies, which is suuuuper underwhelming, and if it prioritizes targeting nearby enemies, that "if something is outside of Bastille, you can pull them in" bit could easily be sabotaged by enemies that are already inside Bastille and are closer to the mine than those outside.

I don't know if the mine already behaves this way as the footage is limited, but it seems to me that if it is limited in the number of targets it grabs, that when a target dies during the duration of the mine, it should reach out and grab someone else in range with the free'd up ripline. But over all, it just seems redundant, Vauban's 4 has been turned into the ultimate CC with sucking in and hold on tap. So other CC powers in his kit seem like "why bother?" to me.

 

Nail Grenade:

Not mobile.

Seems like... Why? With immobile enemies, it is hard to gauge it's CC potential, but the damage looked like absolutely nothing, and again, there are other CC's in the kit so that I am not sure how this is not redundant. If it were primarily a damage mine, maybe that would make sense. And maybe modded for damage output, it might be just that... but on it's face... eh.

 

Boost Pad:

I agree with basically everyone else on this one, it just seems like a troll power and as far as team mobility support, it doesn't provide this function nearly as well as those on any other frame. I think an interesting alternative would be a portal pad or a tesseract pad, or whatever you want to call it. This pad could do bi-directional teleports between two points allowing one to hop back and forth between two places. This could essentially provide the same mobility properties that Nova's wormholes provide, but would specifically allow one to go back and forth between both ends for the duration. It can drop a portal mine directly in front of Vauban and one where he was aiming. I feel this could make for easier maintenance of trap locations and would fit in with the "Tower Defense" motif he seems to... essentially.... still have in this rework.

 

Damage Amp:

I agree that this will probably end up being his default option that all players go with given what I've seen of the other mines and their seemingly redundant utility. Also, how exactly does this perform? Is it a stationary mine that will zap any ally that comes close with a damage buff or is it like the Tesla drones and it latches on to allies? In which case, do multiples have to be laid down for them to latch on to each ally?

 

Orbital Strike:

Seems fine I guess. The charge up on it definitely looks iffy and like it requires CC to be effective, for by the time it goes off, mobile enemies could have easily moved out of range. Which I suspect is kind of the point... a forced synergy (but not overbearingly so) of you having to use his other abilities for this to be effective.

 

Bastile/Vortex:

Seems fine, but I would suggest allowing the "hold 4 to change from Bastille to Vortex" to also allow you to switch back out of Vortex to Bastille as well.

 

Overall:

Considering this as the mission statement for his rework:

"When revisiting Vauban, we aimed to retain his status as a crowd control powerhouse, while increasing his mobility and lethality to keep up with 2019 Warframe’s lightning-quick pace."

I would think that Vauban's redesign was supposed to move away from the "tower defense" aspect and keep him and his abilities mobile. Mine layer and Bastile/Vortex seem to be decidedly stuck in tower defense mode, and Tesla Drones start off mobile and "keep moving" but transition into sticking to enemies and holding the enemies up at the location they were triggered. So the drones seem to sort of go with mobility but then become potentially counterproductive once latched on.

I feel that his Bastille/Vortex abilities largely hold down the fort on retaining his "crowd control powerhouse" capabilities, while his mines mostly are all redundant in the shadow of his ultimate.

With his CC crown held on tight by his ultimate, I think it would have been far more interesting to double down on the "drones" concept in the rest of his kit. If he had been given drones that could switch between modes, I think that could have worked out really well. Drones could be set to attack mode and would fire on his targeting reticle whenever he attacked. They could fire long ranged weapons when Vauban uses a gun, they could turn into spinning blades or lash out with whip arms or something whenever he attacks in melee. If we bake the Tesla concept into them, they could fire railguns at long range targets and shock melee targets. Having the attack mode drones only attack when Vauban attacks would prevent them from being "set it and forget it" attackers.

They could be set to defense mode in which they would actively move to take the hits coming toward Vauban, body-blocking for him until they run out of hit points and are destroyed, or perhaps deploying energy shields that provide over-all damage reduction. They could produce a second shield bar that sits on top of Vauban's shields. Once depleted, the shield is completely offline until it fully recharges leaving Vauban's shield to take the hits, but once redeployed it allows Vauban's shields to regenerate underneath while it takes hits. Or maybe the drones fire "shield restoring" beams at Vauban that give him a constant shield regeneration rate, even while under fire. A similar effect to "hp regeneration" abilities except this one only applies to the shields. Lots of possibilities for a defense mode.

They could be set to mobility mode where Vauban could stand on the drones and they let him hover-skate around. (I.E. keeping the legs moving rather than going full on hover-board) or maybe they attach to his ankles/wrists/shoulders (depends on number of drones and their size, etc.) and give him thruster boosts to movement. This option would allow him to essentially retain his normal animation set just with boosted effects. They could also substantially enhance his jump in this mode, maybe even enhance his wall latch, deploying tethers to the wall to keep him latched longer/maybe even indefinitely.

I think that replacing the current Tesla Drones with the potentially still Tesla-themed "Support Drones" described above paired with Vauban's other skills would keep a healthy and delightful balance between Vauban's old "tower defense" kit and the mission statement of getting our boy moving and improving lethality.

Mine layer is confusing because it has traps that are completely outclassed by Bastille/Vortex and it has support/team support/utility powers that are just... suddenly, randomly in the kit. I suspect that this should either go one way or the other. Make this a full on tower defense trap power or a "utility/team support" power.

If going the all traps way, remove tether mine and stick in more consistent traps like a gravity amp trap that creates an area of effect that sticks weak but fast enemies to the floor and slows strong heavy enemies. This could be a tar trap, a oil slick trap, a time dialation (all actions slowed) trap, whatever. Make Nail Grenade aggressively a damage over time AOE trap. A portal pad could be a team utility/enemy trap that lets allies travel from point A to point B and from point B to point A depending on where they enter,  but it teleports enemies in opposite fashion so that they walk freely over the first portal point, but if they touch the second portal point, it sends them back to the first. This would allow Vauban to set up "trap paths" that the enemies go through over and over. The portals should be deployed in pairs, one directly in front of Vauban's position, the other where he aims. Finally, Might add a spike damage trap (the Nail Grenade providing steady DPS) that will detonate with high damage when triggered by enemy presence, but then takes time to recharge for another hit. Or this could be a high damage "turret" that hits hard but slow and prioritizes heavy units within range but will target light units with no heavies around.

If going the team support route, portal points are still good. Damage amp mine (totem) could literally amplify the damage the team outputs the way it does currently, or it could fire on any enemies that the team members in its influence are attacking. It could literally be a weaponized totem pole sticking out of the ground or a attack drone hive. A team support totem  "rally point" or "resupply" could fire shield reinforcing beams at anyone in the area, or might produce gentle healing pulses, or ammo restoring pulses, or maybe it does all three of these things at the same time, but each effect is quite subtle so as not to be OP or step on anyone's toes. Or if we are trying to get away from the stationary point defense type mechanics, Vauban could just launch drones that will attach to any allies within affinity range and provide them with the attack and or resupply effects depending on drones launched.

 

Anyway, I think the above suggestions also just feel more "engineer" than Vauban's current rework kit feels. I also have waaaay more ideas or mix and matches of what's above, but this has already turned into a short novel, so I'm going to leave it there.

I agree with all your points especially the about the drones going into attack and defense mode this sounds way more interesting and creative for Vauban and playing with him.

[(PSN)crash_razzer]

On 2019-10-12 at 12:48 PM, (PS4)thexxo said:

I like the changes in general and I can't say nothing about Ember because I didn't use her much but I used Vauban back when I played on pc so I want to spend some word on him: I like most of the changes but as other people said speed mine seems useless (as the old jump mine) and nail mine needs more cc or damage to be worth using it, maybe as Tactical Potato said a healing mine will be better. I want to add another thing I came up after reading most of the comment here: why not change his passive to make him the best at cc'ing enemies? Something like the ability to affect most of the non-boss enemies immune to cc with is cc (to a lesser extent)? I always view Vauban as a Batman type of frame: no powers only tools so this passive will fit perfectly him; If this is difficult to implement I had another idea for the passive so switch it's target and effect: all enemies immune to his cc will have a new debuff (for the duration of the cc used on them by Vauban) that reduce the damage done (by 40/50%) by them and amplify the damage taken (20/30%). 

I see him as a batman frame too! I think they should really develop more turret style abilities like the nail thing is cool i guess but it wont do enough damage, i think they should make him more adaptable and give him at least one killing ability orbital strike is cool but i visually don't like how you can just use it indoors.

[(XBOX)xLupus Prime]

Hi, I was wondering if there was any possible that ember didn't have to be reworked. I loved the last update changing how ember's WoF worked, the added damage was a great plus, but I see now with this update her ability to passively kill enemies is gone... She's my most used frame and I love her to death, she's what makes me enjoy the game. I mean 9 forma on just the prime and a couple on the normal. I've got 30% usage with her, she is what I use, I feel like this overhaul of her isn't neccessary and yes it may give some other players a new feel for her and want to try her out with her new abilities, but now my Ember will be gone and my claim for being able to clear a hydron quicker than almost any other frame will be gone, as long as I have my nova and CP's. Is there really nothing that can be done to keep the old ember? I just really don't know how much I'm going to want to play anymore when she doesn't work that way anymore. I just loved flying through exterminates killing everyone faster than anything else in the game, it was awesome! 

[(XBOX)xLupus Prime]

3 hours ago, ReynaAlba said:

Can we bring back the old World on Fire? Before you nerfed her into unusability?  Coz this new ultimate doesn't seem very "ultimate-y" to be honest.

I don't feel like this new WoF is nerfed, it does require certain mods to use like max range from overextended and stretch, but once you have that going, the double damage at 100% is insane. I have 9 forma on mine and she melts everyone up to level 50 grineer

[(XBOX)xLupus Prime]

On 2019-10-22 at 7:17 PM, Gold_Ingenium said:

I rarely speak up on here, but I felt the need to this time, considering those are two frames that I play heavily

man did you guys went hard on Ember this time. Everything's already been said, but people who used her did so for her 4, and her high-level style relied heavily on aggressive CC, a style not found on any other frame, maximising firequake use & accelerant to take as much adventage as possible of the stun. Of course, her entire role as a low-level sweeper relied entirely on that ability as well. By giving her a nuke instead, you're making her a boring "press 4 for flashy effect & massive AoE damage" frame. Didn't we learn that those are bad from the old Saryn bomb days, and that they should be removed from the game ? This way, you completely changed ember's entire playstyle, for no apparent reason. You wouldn't remove Rhino's Ironskin, or Vauban's Bastille, or Frost's Snow Globe, so why would you change what "makes" Ember, well, Ember, ie WoF ? Reducing range because some people feel like it was too powerful is understandable as some kind of show of good will, but you made the correct choice to not change her 4 then, why would you make that mistake now ?

Others already went in detail over why changing her ult to LoS is a strict downgrade no matter the damage dealt, so I don't feel like I should expand on it much more

As for Vauban, Bastille/Vortex does not need to be a 100 base casting cost. I know it feels kind of thematic to have it on his 4, but one of the reasons that bastille was so like was that it had a relatively low power cost so that you could get creative with both your build and how you used the power, not to mention castion while moving. Unless you really want the 4th ability to cost 100 base for some reason, I feel like not a lot of people would care if that was Orbital Strike that took the fourth spot

I completely agree with this, Ember just isn't Ember without setting the World on Fire.. literally.

[(XBOX)xLupus Prime]

Please don't immediately drop these changes to Ember. Look at more of the reviews and comments, dont take away WoF!!!

[ForsakenCrusader]

Just saw prime time, loved the changes except one. PLZ for the love of god incrase the number of enemies her 4rth can hit. 10 enemies are way to few, i can't streatch this enough increase the number of the enemeis she can hit otherwise the ability is useless.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Uhhhh how often do you have 10+ enemies in your line of sight.  Oh right, very often you don't even have 10 in your face.  On top of that, any that survive the blast spread the fire to enemies.  

They aren't bringing back world on fire, get over it.  How would world on fire ever be fair with the new heat proc to armor strip everything around ember.  Oh right, they'd have to nuke its range to almost nothing for that to be fair and then the ability is hot garbage literally.  

Ember stills sets everything on fire with 3 out of her 4 abilities.  Just because none of them are named world on fire doesn't mean she isn't still setting the world on fire.  

[DeeDeetheSpy]

From watching tonight's PrimeTime, Devs I implore you, That augment for Ember's 3 needs to be a Heal Over Time instead of just a burst of healing. Not for any mechanical reason per-say... Just for theme. She is the queen of fire. If she is going to heal, it needs to be HOT!

[eimrun]

Reading down the comments...some people want WOF gone, some people want to keep it. This is why world peace can never be attain. I personally like the changes. Looks like its time to dust her off the shelf now. I don't mind her not being the top AOE dps (well she has not been one for a long time now anyway) as long as she feels like a firestar inferno which can carry her own weight at higher levels which by the looks of prime time, is looking good. I have only one ember and she's the highest forma'd/re-forma'ed item  in my inventory due to all the reworks done to her. That includes weapons. I really like playing her (for the plot) and very much like this frame to work out.

Btw I think megan meant that her 4th cost energy per enemies hit which capped out at 10. So you can hit 15 enemies but the energy cost capped to 10 enemies.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

This all looks like it'll be fun to play with. It seems good mechanically. but I have one tiny and minuscule complaint: The fire could be prettier IMO. Some nice, flowing, current gen flames would be nice. If there's technical limitations there, I suppose I'll just have to wait.  But Ember is almost always on the move, so it's weird to have the fire fx be static and dated. Not a huge deal... Just my opinion.

[.Cruz.]

From the bit that I saw during the livestream I have to say that I am very disappointed on Vauban's Minelayer and Bastille. Minelayer had no changes at all the mines are not fun nor good except for the damage amp. Photon Strike did not seem to have a scaling stat showing while they hovered over it with the mouse, hopefully it's just cuz of the dev build but it has me worried. Last of all Bastille, why and I mean WHY does it still have a cap when now it needs to catch enemies to give us a small buff. If a cap is so necessary make it a fixed number so it cant be changed with anything. Also 100 energy cost on Bastille huh? I will hold off on saying anything else till I actually try it but man i'm getting a headache just looking at it, so much feedback, so many people saying that minelayer needs to be switched and nothing was done. k