the rivens nerf

[-Jager-JimDestroyer-]

so this is my first time in forums  because i think so is injust and inaceptable all the time and platinum and kuva for the rivens and after we can see the lastest nerf of the rivens like the rubico rivens, so im a eidolons hunters and for me thats is a bad idea for the developers and managers of the game, its a disappoinment for the customers,users and players form warframe =(.

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, --Hunter-JimDestroyer-- said:

so this is my first time in forums  because i think so is injust and inaceptable all the time and platinum and kuva for the rivens and after we can see the lastest nerf of the rivens like the rubico rivens, so im a eidolons hunters and for me thats is a bad idea for the developers and managers of the game, its a disappoinment for the customers,users and players form warframe =(.

This is how Rivens were always meant to work. The dispositions are meant to change regularly to reflect overall usage of the weapons. If you don't like it don't use them.

• Remove all your rivens. See if you improve the performance of your weapons by doing that. 

[Aldain]

Riven Dispositions were always meant and designed to change. Your Rubico is still stronger than a vast majority of all weapons in terms of raw damage output and assuming you have a good build, able to kill any Eidolon just as fast as it used to plus/minus a few seconds assuming you modded it right.

Now if you'll excuse me...

-begins playing world's smallest violin-

[AzureTerra]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

-begins playing world's smallest violin-

Beat me to it. Guess i will have to bring out the smallest viola instead.

[Aldain]

Just now, AzureTerra said:

Beat me to it. Guess i will have to bring out the smallest viola instead.

Now all we need is the smallest harp and the smallest pan flute and we have a band.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

This is how Rivens were always meant to work. The dispositions are meant to change regularly to reflect overall usage of the weapons. If you don't like it don't use them.

• Remove all your rivens. See if you improve the performance of your weapons by doing that. 

Except 1 person not using the weapon isn’t going to suddenly get the riven dispo buffed next PA.

We’re just in a downward spiral for Rubico and Lanka rivens because regardless of if you’re using a riven on them or not. You’re using them in Eidolons hunts because they are literally the only good choices. So until we get equally good options their dispos are just going to keep falling.

[Marine027]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Aldain:

-begins playing world's smallest violin-

 

[krc473]

33 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Except 1 person not using the weapon isn’t going to suddenly get the riven dispo buffed next PA.

That wasn’t what I was suggesting. It was: “if you don’t like how rivens work, don’t use them”. People should know that this is what happens with rivens. They cannot complain when what they spent money on gets devalued due to the system behind them. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Not a nerf, it's called balancing 

[Walkampf]

@Aldain @AzureTerra

We literally have an original string-instrument in Warframe at this point.

Behold, the world's smallest Shawzin!

[WhiteMarker]

2 hours ago, --Hunter-JimDestroyer-- said:

so this is my first time in forums

Maybe you should come more often to the forum.
Then you would know that the stat-changes are exactly how rivens are supposed to work.
Nothing is wrong with the change. What's wrong is you not informing yourself on how something works.

[Azrael_V]

8 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Maybe you should come more often to the forum.
Then you would know that the stat-changes are exactly how rivens are supposed to work.
Nothing is wrong with the change. What's wrong is you not informing yourself on how something works.

Typical knee jerk reaction when anyone questions riven changes. Riven changes made based on popularity doesn't work. The same Rivens have been getting nerfed which means players are still using the same weapons. Get off your damn high horse. 

[Azrael_V]

3 hours ago, --Hunter-JimDestroyer-- said:

so this is my first time in forums  because i think so is injust and inaceptable all the time and platinum and kuva for the rivens and after we can see the lastest nerf of the rivens like the rubico rivens, so im a eidolons hunters and for me thats is a bad idea for the developers and managers of the game, its a disappoinment for the customers,users and players form warframe =(.

Don't stress about it . Many players feel the same. You can check out Riven Disposition Changes page and go through the comments if anyone tells you otherwise.

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, krc473 said:

• Remove all your rivens. See if you improve the performance of your weapons by doing that. 

 

This actually does work for some weapons when they hit 0.6 - 0.55 Disp. Least if you have access to Primed mods and Arcanes.

Ignis would be a good example if you want to keep the old wall punch-through it used to have it's just about impossible to beat Primed Shred. In most cases this is actually the only thing lowering Disposition does. It cause the player to remove the Riven when it no longer out performs normal mods. I can remove my Tombfinger Riven and it won't change the fact it's the best Semi-auto pistol in the game.

Rivens are just about that carrot on a stick revenue for players who don't know any better for which to invest in and which to ignore. Esp since they don't reflect performance in the least. But any rate that's not how Rivens were always supposed to work. Hence why Disposition was added after the fact.

Ideally Disposition should be 0.7 - 1.2 Anything outside that range; the weapon itself should be looked at. There's no excuse to have such a large spectrum.

[WhiteMarker]

7 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

Typical knee jerk reaction when anyone questions riven changes. Riven changes made based on popularity doesn't work. The same Rivens have been getting nerfed which means players are still using the same weapons. Get off your damn high horse. 

Wow, calm your horses, little friend. No need for insults.
Did you know what gets used a lot by players? Meta weapons. Weapons that are better at doing stuff than other weapons. You know which weapons don't need strong rivens? Weapons that do stuff better than other weapons, aka meta weapons. You know what happens to meta weapons? They get used a whole lot.

So you are wrong. Nerfing rivens based on the popularity of the weapon is actually a viable strategy.

[vaarnaaarne]

Rivens existing in the first place is the problem. It's a fundamentally broken system.

59 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

@Aldain @AzureTerra

We literally have an original string-instrument in Warframe at this point.

Behold, the world's smallest Shawzin!

Damn, that's a small Shawzin.

[Xzorn]

11 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So you are wrong. Nerfing rivens based on the popularity of the weapon is actually a viable strategy.

 

Ehhh... Sorta. I mean... What's powerful in Warframe?
As an endurance runner I tend to chuckle with every Disp change as the weapons I find to do stuff better are the ones that keep getting buffs.
My Torid hits harder than Tonkor pre-nerf and my Synapse can kill lvl 165 Napalms x8 with a single mag.
Personally I don't think Rattleguts is all that amazing but happens to be 1 of 3 good auto secondaries so it gets used and thus nerfed.

I think it's more a lazy strategy than a viable one but that's just me.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

Ehhh... Sorta. I mean... What's powerful in Warframe?
As an endurance runner I tend to chuckle with every Disp change as the weapons I find to do stuff better are the ones that keep getting buffs.
My Torid hits harder than Tonkor pre-nerf and my Synapse can kill lvl 165 Napalms x8 with a single mag.
Personally I don't think Rattleguts is all that amazing but happens to be 1 of 3 good auto secondaries so it gets used and thus nerfed.

I think it's more a lazy strategy than a viable one but that's just me.

Even though rivens don't do a good job, they were introduced so that less used weapons get used more often.
And for this goal a few endurance runs aren't what DE should look at. 

[Nez-Kal]

11 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So you are wrong. Nerfing rivens based on the popularity of the weapon is actually a viable strategy.

Don't forget that DE is ALSO looking into the Popularity pool and the "Auto Script" for which Dispositions will take a hit, and are personally judging each case by case as well (As previously mentioned in a Riven ReDisposition post).

Things like the Soma, which are hella popular, are getting buffs instead due to their over-all use coming from lower MR players and the Meme Popularity of the weapon, not to mention its multiple instances of DE Handouts to the Player-base as a whole. DE recognized that it's Usage stat was not a fair one, and started to buff it to bring it more inline with other Riven/Weapons, like the Grakata, Baza, etc.

A lot of naysayers like to use the "Popularity Script" as a weapon against the Riven ReDispositions, claiming that it's all basically done by a machine with no checks, when it's not.

Just thought I add this bit.

[Xzorn]

13 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Even though rivens don't do a good job, they were introduced so that less used weapons get used more often.
And for this goal a few endurance runs aren't what DE should look at. 

 

Did it work though? I mean reasonably well? I don't think so. Maybe. Haven't played much in the past year. Course they shouldn't compare an Endurance run. They should compare power / performance but that itself is a wash in Warframe. Oh but I can hear the cries from the future over Kirpath while they buff my Glaive Prime that literally hits for 1.9 million damage in one shot. Oh, how silly Rivens are...

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Tangent-Valley:

Things like the Soma, which are hella popular

Small corection, it WAS popular.

This is, of course, only personal experiece, but I don't think I've even one Soma user seen this year. And I actually mean that statement. So I can totally believe, that it's not popular anymore and thus get's a better riven disposition. It's by no means a bad weapon, it's just not as shiny anymore as other, newer toys.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Xzorn:

They should compare power / performance

Well, with this many weapons/frames in the game, it's nearly impossible to accuratly balance all.

A very popular weapon is chosen for a reason, most of the time, because it is outstandingly strong and sometimes because it has a feature that makes it stand out.

Thus it can stand on it's own two legs.

A high riven dispostion is only for those weapons, which don't stand out on their own (anymore).

[WhiteMarker]

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Did it work though? I mean reasonably well? I don't think so. Maybe.

No, it didn't work. But that has also to do with the concept of rivens being bad. I'm not trying to argue that rivens are good or anything.
But for what they are supposed to do (make less popular weapons used more) they have to look at the popularity of a weapon, and not at the usefulness in something like endurance runs, because, let's be real, only a really small fraction of the playbase does really long endurance runs.

[Xzorn]

16 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Well, with this many weapons/frames in the game, it's nearly impossible to accuratly balance all.

 

I would disagree. Least I would say it can be done within reason.
I can calc up any weapon you want and give you it's performance against specific enemies of any level range. It can be done. The problem arises that "Powerful" in Warframe to it's players is mostly perception and highly conditional.

I like to use a Synapse Ammo economy parse I did a while back as an example since I'm fairly sure there's no single target gun which can beat it in killing power against Armored enemies. Of course if I were not shooting Armor I might use something else and there's the one of many conditions.
 

Spoiler

 

So then AoE is the global thing right? But then Zarr gets buffed which is an amazing AoE weapon. No self-damage AoE? Okay, Torid gets buffed though and then they nerf Snipers? None of it makes any sense. They gave Daikyu the biggest buffs on the bow rework and it has the highest Disp already. Think it's tied with Paris but you get my point. I just think it's all nonsense personally and Rivens will always be a black spot on this game's reputation forever causing toxic feelings among it's players.

The game was far better off without them.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Xzorn:

I can calc up any weapon you want and give you it's performance against specific enemies of any level range. It can be done.

But how whould you assign values to unique machanics?

Sonicor is very popular because of it's guaranteed CC, to name just one example.

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Xzorn:

But then Zarr gets buffed which is an amazing AoE weapon.

The reason is the selfdamage. This is a skill-based issue. So, while the Zarr is strong, how do you factor in each palyers personal skill to avoid selfdamage as a set value in your calculation.