Catchmoon is being nerfed...

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Crasharr said:

Fun fact, my catchmoon riven increases the falloff to 110 meters, dont think this is going to do much for me the way i rolled my riven... lol

That is extremely unlikely.. On live you'd need over 150% projectile speed. After the changes you will need about 500% projectile speed in order to hit 120m falloff.

[XaoGarrent]

5 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

This is the part of the argument I don't understand. Many frames do a ton of AoE with abilities. Many weapons do a ton of AoE.

Both of these were already explained and well addressed in my previous post. Thinking like this will just lead to even more narrow, stagnant meta.

5 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Why do players even think the Catchmoon is the only AoE Kitgun?

Because in realistic terms, it is. 

5 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

How many missions actually require killing a ton of enemies? I'm definitely confused.

Are you above MR 5? Or are you just unaware of how dense the enemy spawns are once you start getting into higher enemy levels? I'm legitimately not sure if you're really ignorant of this, or just pretending. I *just* did a mot run earlier where my Wukong was running into spawns swinging his staff around at 10+ enemies on a regular basis. Usually far, far more, because y'know, fissures add more enemies.

I think you are totally aware of all the answers to your questions, you're just not prepared to accept the truth. And that is something nobody can help you with.

[(XBOX)I eat GABAGE]

When I say that I want secondaries buffed to get comparibile to catchmoon. I dont even mean in raw damage. The kitguns have arcanes. They have the option to have unlimited ammo or the option to give warframes 30% power strength and efficiency, and the most OP one that I dont even use... The option to make a headshot kill get you more kills. Just give quirky buffs to secondaries that dont even effect secondaries. All the weapon augments that we got from the nightwave so far are for primaries. Perhaps you guys can find some way to make other secondaries more fun to use? Because nerf the catchmoon until it drops off at a 2m range and kitguns will still have at least a 40% usage. How can other secondaries compete with one that can have arcanes?

[OrionHisSon]

I still have my Tombfinger and Gaze ...

[SneakyErvin]

The sad part is that DE probably didnt analyze the actual reason why Catchmoon sees so much use.

Yeah sure, parts of it is that it is extremely strong and does need a nerf. But that isnt the sole reason. A major factor to it all is something that DE introduced themselves as a mechanic i.e Arbitration Drones. The only thing this change will result in is a shift to the next best option to handle those drone as smooth as possible, which will very likely be Arca Plasmor or possibly Ignis(wraith).

What will be the next step? Nerfing Arca Plasmor because it sees to much use all of a sudden, even though it is a fairly weak weapon in higher level content besides when it comes to blowing up drones?

3 hours ago, (XB1)I eat GABAGE said:

When I say that I want secondaries buffed to get comparibile to catchmoon. I dont even mean in raw damage. The kitguns have arcanes. They have the option to have unlimited ammo or the option to give warframes 30% power strength and efficiency, and the most OP one that I dont even use... The option to make a headshot kill get you more kills. Just give quirky buffs to secondaries that dont even effect secondaries. All the weapon augments that we got from the nightwave so far are for primaries. Perhaps you guys can find some way to make other secondaries more fun to use? Because nerf the catchmoon until it drops off at a 2m range and kitguns will still have at least a 40% usage. How can other secondaries compete with one that can have arcanes?

Problem with that line of though regarding arcanes is that you are required to kill things with the arcanes in order to make them useful. Not much will die when your effective range is about 10-12m before dropoff robs you blind of your damage. Fulmin alone feels extremely gimp with a max range of 20m, it is extremely short for a gun. Now catchmoon will get that range aswell as barely dealing any damage beyond the 16m mark, where it drops down to a whooping 10% damage dealt compared to the 33% of Fulmin. No arcane will make up for that, the slightly higher crit and crit damage of catchmoon wont make up for that either, nor will the slightly better mods since Fulmin also has access to good crit along with hunter munitions. Not that I'm saying Fulmin's primary fire is good, I'm just saying Catchmoon will be even worse.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2019-10-24 at 7:02 PM, trst said:

There are just over 100 secondaries in the game not counting any kitguns. When nearly half of players are using it specifically it proves it's an extreme outlier for some reason.

Especially when the second most used secondary comes in at a staggering >1-5% usage.

And guess what? Every single one of them are still playing the game! And you know what else? They are happy playing the game. Because of the MR they focused on, you can bet that the vast majority of those folks spent a great deal of time and some real money getting their weapon to the configuration they wanted. DE should spend developer hours either finishing new content, or, here is an idea, actually fixing real bugs in the game! The statistics DE should focus on are How many people are playing the game? And How many new players do we have over this time last week, month, year? It does no harm to anyone for 50%+ of their high ranked players to like one secondary over all others. Tell Pablo to shut up and code until he implements true scaling in the game. Then, no need to cripple a weapon the paying sector of your community has invested time and money in. If scaling worked in the game, all weapons would be equally capable and therefore, potentially as fun to play. Because people are people, you will always have crowd favorites. Cardinal rule here. Thou shalt not torque off your paying customers.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

11 hours ago, Vay_Kek said:

Catchmoon is a great example of how you cannot possibly make everyone happy. People were complaining about power creep for years and here are we, with Catchmoon - literal manifestation of power creep in flesh being nerfed and people are still complaining. Honestly, Im all for the catchmoon being nerfed: it's just not right when almost 50% of the player base uses only one specific weapon when there are so many weapons with unique mechanics collecting dust.

Oh, I dont know, maybe because people just like it? Maybe it makes the game fun for them? Maybe some people just leave it equipped and dont use it? This is where have a real Data Analyst on the DE payroll might keep them from making a lot of their paying players mad for a stupid, knee-jerk reaction to a number on a spreadsheet.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2019-10-24 at 7:42 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Citation?

You did watch PT 266, right? It is on YouTube, maybe you should give it a watch.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint said:

And guess what? Every single one of them are still playing the game! And you know what else? They are happy playing the game. Because of the MR they focused on, you can bet that the vast majority of those folks spent a great deal of time and some real money getting their weapon to the configuration they wanted. DE should spend developer hours either finishing new content, or, here is an idea, actually fixing real bugs in the game! The statistics DE should focus on are How many people are playing the game? And How many new players do we have over this time last week, month, year? It does no harm to anyone for 50%+ of their high ranked players to like one secondary over all others. Tell Pablo to shut up and code until he implements true scaling in the game. Then, no need to cripple a weapon the paying sector of your community has invested time and money in. If scaling worked in the game, all weapons would be equally capable and therefore, potentially as fun to play. Because people are people, you will always have crowd favorites. Cardinal rule here. Thou shalt not torque off your paying customers.

That catchmoon nerf hit your feels huh? 

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

21 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Yes, let's buff 100+ secondaries instead of nerfing one that's clearly above the power curve.

Because that's totally reasonable.

Yes, of course we see the clear genius in your argument. Why bother fixing what is broken in the game when lazy Pablo can just add yet another broken weapon to the ever growing trash heap? Brilliant! And it takes so much less programming ability!

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

That catchmoon nerf hit your feels huh? 

It is more like, "Here we go again". They have problems galore in the game like door glitches, pickup glitches, host disconnects that rob you of all things gained in a tridolon hunt. Shoot, you know the list. The problem appears to be that their developers dont want to put the time and effort into tracking real problems to ground and they clearly dont have the right programmers to implement true scaling which would negate the need for invulnerability modes on bosses and would negate the need for crippling a weapon simply because it is popular. Also, there is a great sense of being robbed. I invested a lot of time and money into my loadout and now they are destroying something I spent time and real money on.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint said:

It is more like, "Here we go again". They have problems galore in the game like door glitches, pickup glitches, host disconnects that rob you of all things gained in a tridolon hunt. Shoot, you know the list. The problem appears to be that their developers dont want to put the time and effort into tracking real problems to ground and they clearly dont have the right programmers to implement true scaling which would negate the need for invulnerability modes on bosses and would negate the need for crippling a weapon simply because it is popular. Also, there is a great sense of being robbed. I invested a lot of time and money into my loadout and now they are destroying something I spent time and real money on.

It’s for balances sake just how they nerfed the tonkor super jump with excels exalted blade etc. I’ve spent money and bought since zephyr most PA packs (chroma atlas wukong,Mesa,zephyr) the prime unvalitings to date and all renown packs on PS4. And you spent money on what in aspect of your catchmoon because to be frank the only item you can buy is play and you can buy a catchmoon riven but if you wasted money on that ....... 

i get Therese a lot of long standing bugs and issues with the game that do need to be fixed. But at the same time balance is just as and more important then a door bug. At least imo. And yes again Therese a lot they need to fix but balance is needed as well. It wasn’t just useabiltiy that caused the nerf it was performing way to well.and that’s fair. Although I do believe that warframe needs proper playtesting instead of just throwing things to the players and letting them get comfortable with it. Bottom line it’s a nerf in the sake of viability. Buffing all weapons makes the power creep much worse and to be honest that’s another hole that they’ve dug themselves in over the years. But they are trying to fix it now! While I think this stuff is long overdue it’s nice that they are finally getting to balance so just calm down. Yea it’s a nerf but if you didn’t catch on they are trying to slowly reel in and make it more balanced so more then just one secondary is good. And at the same time a lot of secondaries are great pox ackjagara primes etc the list goes on but the majority of wf prefers outright broken weapons ie (catchmoon) because of the neglect of balance which is completely on dE

[TARINunit9]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint said:

You did watch PT 266, right? It is on YouTube, maybe you should give it a watch.

My post came from another thread that was merged into this one and didn't provide citation, please ignore it

[ReshyShira]

On 2019-10-24 at 4:39 PM, DrivaMain said:

Well good riddance, I still don't understand why DE made a secondary that makes most of the existing secondaries irrelevant.

Also the 50% usage of this kitgun shows how stupidly broken it is.

 

 

Clearly, the solution is that DE should focus on making all these secondary older guns actually worth using, rather than trying to bandage over that issue by nerfing the catchmoon.

 

 

I imagine that when we get the new war there will be a new overpowered secondary and nobody will use the catchmoon anymore anyway, making this nerf entirely pointless.

Edited October 26, 2019 by ReshyShira

[Chaemyerelis]

On 2019-10-24 at 4:25 PM, Psianide73 said:

...due to 50% of the playerbase using it.

Discuss.

Edit... I'm not bothered, I favour diversity/playing things for fun.

Good choice nerfing it imo. It was so OP it trivialized a lot of enemies.

[TheGreatJackalope]

everyone says 50% of the players are using it.. but it's not.. it's 50% of top MR are using it.. those are also the people doing hour long end game survivals etc where enemies have infinitely scaling armor making the need for that nuke weapon obvious...  if you want us to use other weapons.. do a better job of enemy scaling

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It’s for balances sake just how they nerfed the tonkor super jump with excels exalted blade etc. I’ve spent money and bought since zephyr most PA packs (chroma atlas wukong,Mesa,zephyr) the prime unvalitings to date and all renown packs on PS4. And you spent money on what in aspect of your catchmoon because to be frank the only item you can buy is play and you can buy a catchmoon riven but if you wasted money on that ....... 

i get Therese a lot of long standing bugs and issues with the game that do need to be fixed. But at the same time balance is just as and more important then a door bug. At least imo. And yes again Therese a lot they need to fix but balance is needed as well. It wasn’t just useabiltiy that caused the nerf it was performing way to well.and that’s fair. Although I do believe that warframe needs proper playtesting instead of just throwing things to the players and letting them get comfortable with it. Bottom line it’s a nerf in the sake of viability. Buffing all weapons makes the power creep much worse and to be honest that’s another hole that they’ve dug themselves in over the years. But they are trying to fix it now! While I think this stuff is long overdue it’s nice that they are finally getting to balance so just calm down. Yea it’s a nerf but if you didn’t catch on they are trying to slowly reel in and make it more balanced so more then just one secondary is good. And at the same time a lot of secondaries are great pox ackjagara primes etc the list goes on but the majority of wf prefers outright broken weapons ie (catchmoon) because of the neglect of balance which is completely on dE

Yea dude the Pox is ridiculously good. And I have a catchmoon with 5 forma lol. 

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

3 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It’s for balances sake just how they nerfed the tonkor super jump with excels exalted blade etc. I’ve spent money and bought since zephyr most PA packs (chroma atlas wukong,Mesa,zephyr) the prime unvalitings to date and all renown packs on PS4. And you spent money on what in aspect of your catchmoon because to be frank the only item you can buy is play and you can buy a catchmoon riven but if you wasted money on that ....... 

i get Therese a lot of long standing bugs and issues with the game that do need to be fixed. But at the same time balance is just as and more important then a door bug. At least imo. And yes again Therese a lot they need to fix but balance is needed as well. It wasn’t just useabiltiy that caused the nerf it was performing way to well.and that’s fair. Although I do believe that warframe needs proper playtesting instead of just throwing things to the players and letting them get comfortable with it. Bottom line it’s a nerf in the sake of viability. Buffing all weapons makes the power creep much worse and to be honest that’s another hole that they’ve dug themselves in over the years. But they are trying to fix it now! While I think this stuff is long overdue it’s nice that they are finally getting to balance so just calm down. Yea it’s a nerf but if you didn’t catch on they are trying to slowly reel in and make it more balanced so more then just one secondary is good. And at the same time a lot of secondaries are great pox ackjagara primes etc the list goes on but the majority of wf prefers outright broken weapons ie (catchmoon) because of the neglect of balance which is completely on dE

Again, crippling yet another weapon is not providing balance. It is a knee-jerk lazy response because it is quick and easy to do and it lets them pretend they are addressing some game balance issue. This is a snake eating its tail. People play it because it is fun. If the driving focus among DE is cripple anything that is fun, then they have entered a death spiral. When WF gets to be no fun, They will lose their paying player base. As to them having to do this, no, they really didnt. They need to fix real bugs in the game. But again, that takes a real programmer. Seems none of their devs knows how to do a focused code trace, but whooooweee! They sure know how to find those weapon parameter tables!!!! Yes, Sir! Pablo knows right where they are! They will eventually trash every good weapon in the game. I continue to play for now but I see the handwriting on the wall. They either cannot or will not fix the long standing bugs in the game. But they have all the time in the world to wreck weapons people have invested time and money on. Yes, i spent platinum to tune my Catchmoon and that translates to real money. Since the weapon will now bear only cosmetic resemblance to what I built, I perceive my weapon has been stolen.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Catchmoon wasn't insane in long endurance runs, it was insane for star chart content.  MR 27's aren't a bunch of people all doing 10 hour survival runs, far from it I see plenty of high MR players go to hydron for 10 waves and get out.  Basically the kitgun version of arca plasmor with some absurd arcanes attached that make it even more powerful.  DE should be letting us use kitgun arcanes on any pistol in the game, but nah you can use them on just these 4 weapons/way to shoehorn us into using just those.  Arca plasmor got nerfed several times as well, because overuse where all anyone wanted to do was buy a plasmor riven in trade chat for 500 with any roll on it.  

For reference, plat isn't money.  If it was it would mean I spent thousands of dollars on the 26K plat I have in my possession.  I'm guessing you're one of those players who has never tried to make platinum in trade chat and thinks you must buy the premium currency to have any, which is simply not true.  

If they didn't know how to fix bugs the game would have been unplayable years ago, just saying.  You clearly don't know of what happens with bugs.  You fix one bug and 10 more take it's place for you to fix.  Fixing bugs is the definition of a grind.  

[LuceusW]

3) Catchmoon

• Check out Pablo’s detailed stat review: https://youtu.be/TgkA5CzaLSc?t=1247
• Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.
• Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m.

 

I don't understand the "Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10." part can someone explain it to me plz

[DarkRuler2500]

I meants that if you use it beyond 10 meters the damage will fall off drastically.

[Arkennstar]

I am curious too since that wording doesn't make sense.. damage fall off would've meant that the damage reduction over range is reduced. fall off damage reduced does that mean it does only 10% damage past the maximum range?

Maybe we'll know more in the proper patch notes.

[Arkennstar]

1 minute ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I meants that if you use it beyond 10 meters the damage will fall off drastically.

It says decreased from 100 to 10 though.. doubt it means meters.. it didnt have a 100 mt range before did it?

[GnarlsDarkley]

32 minutes ago, LuceusW said:

Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Falloff

Quote

Falloff (as shown in Arsenal) describes two distances making up the range at which a weapon's damage starts decreasing linearly from 100%, to the weapon's minimum damage percentage, if a target is struck within the range. Hitting a target at a distance shorter than the initial falloff will deal 100% of the weapon's damage, and hitting a target beyond the entire falloff range will continue to deal its minimum damage percentage.

tl;dr:

Catchmoon deals way  less damage beginning 8 meters instead of 20 meters and hits its lowest damage at 16 meters distance instead of 30 meters

Edited October 27, 2019 by GnarlsDarkley

[LuceusW]

Catcmoon has min damage percentage of 62.5% so after the nerf after the 16 meters it will do only 62.5% of damage but still it does not answer my question what does the 100 to 10 mean