Kuva Lich mission difficulty

[Aldain]

On 2019-11-04 at 5:14 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

The thrall do seem to have some sort of additional damage resistance on top of status and cc immunity, making Crit weapons the most (the only?) viable solution

-sigh- Guess they didn't learn from Wolf after all.

[EmberStar]

48 minutes ago, Aldain said:

-sigh- Guess they didn't learn from Wolf after all.

I'm not completely sure (and can't test it because I'm not longer doing Lich missions.)  But it also felt like thralls had a chance to just flat out one-shot most of the frames I was using.  I'm not sure if it was an actual mechanic or just that they get higher damage (or higher crit chance or something) but I know that on my "umbra mod" Saryn with stacked armor mods *and* adaptation, I was still just dropping dead sometimes.

And yes, the thralls did seem to be immune to status and some (but not all) Warframe powers.  Taking out a Nox Thrall while being unable to stop him from firing his gloop gun was... not enjoyable.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

7 hours ago, EnDDarK said:

I will answer only because it seems that you do not understand.
My current lich is not difficult. He is annoying for being poorly programmed.
I play since the release.
Just to complete: I'm 38 years old and I've been playing since my 7 years. Probably, I have more gaming experience than you have in life time.

Talk about an assumption. I'm also 38 years old, have been playing since 2013, former sponsored player in other games, have played in a well known competitive clan for this one for 5 years, etc. So yeh, nice assumption of me just being some kid, you must be speaking to me on an alt account then I'm assuming? Now moving on, you literally stated "They are impossible on level 5 kuva lich missions, at least for me". That doesn't sound like someone who can confidently handle their lich, so maybe you just worded it poorly. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by -CdG-Zilchy

[zoffmode]

IMO only thing that's remotely close to being difficult is when Lich is immune to corrosive element, or resistant to a lesser degree. Thralls get one shot even at rank 5 with pretty much any weapon as long as you have it modded correctly, apart from Nox who can take a bunch of shots. 

Are you just not using corrosive element or something? (or heat if full armor strip)

P.S. As for Thralls being immune to powers and status, that was fixed a while ago AFAIK.

Edited November 22, 2019 by zoffmode

[PsychoticHeaven]

Im just going to say that there IS something wrong with the Litch missions! With 2k hours in this game, Ive done it all solo, even survivals for 4hrs! The people saying they are one shot with Rhino arent lying. My Umbral Rhino with 10k Iron skin was getting 1-2 shot all over the place...Chroma with 1k damage buff, I was mag dumping on Lvl 90s...some took 2 mags! Mirage...same thing!  Meanwhile using Loki I was able to do the missions, but when my Litch spawned(was testing mod combos so i could kill him), after I hit him a few times while moving and changing positions, he then ignored invisibility and one shot me(obviously). The only other frame I can even get to a point where my Litch will spawn is with my Umbral Oberon, yet again I get a few hits and as soon as I move I just drop dead! I havent been able to get near or finish a SINGLE litch mission to even test combos since day one. I honestly think some peoples games are bugged AF....As some people say nothing seems amiss while others, like me see a HUGE issue.! Using arcanes and rivens, like others said, 1-2 shot enemies much higher than these 90-110s, but in Litch missions im standing there mag dumping, and get nothing!!! I went and spawned 20 Heavy gunners to test and sure enough, everything checked out there at Lvl 90-110...until I got to Lvl 140-155.....Then it felt like the Litch missions!  Im kinda stuck now though as I wanted a higher level challenge only to be met with this mess of a update, for me anyway! O damn....Hold that thought! I havent tried Wu-Kong yet...BRB...lol

[Siegecraft]

it is suppose to a little hard to kill  the litch is suppose to be your greatest nemesis your assassin it would be borring if enemy lv were 30-40  

plus its just sorties lv so its  just live playing sorties mission  and at least it is making sure we play some what actively to stay alive rather than just smasing one key without moving

just my personal opinion

because Its a Theory a game theory lol

[T.Hoagie]

Having just completed my first Lich recently, most of my previous complaints stand but for different reasons. But its pretty clear to me that enemy damage ramps up a little too quickly as the Lich levels up.

And if on a lower level planet for things like excavations, the increase in their level does not affect the extractors own. So it made it literally impossible for me to get missions like that done, even on frames like Limbo, who would get gunned down before he could even finish casting rift.

Not to mention when I got bugged thralls like that thralled Nox that stayed in the death/death cloud animation and couldn't be stabbed, or that Thrall that clipped into the wall.

[Tenno76856]

Meant to be for high end players and people complain about difficulty... Seriously....

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, T.Hoagie said:

Having just completed my first Lich recently, most of my previous complaints stand but for different reasons. But its pretty clear to me that enemy damage ramps up a little too quickly as the Lich levels up.

And if on a lower level planet for things like excavations, the increase in their level does not affect the extractors own. So it made it literally impossible for me to get missions like that done, even on frames like Limbo, who would get gunned down before he could even finish casting rift.

Not to mention when I got bugged thralls like that thralled Nox that stayed in the death/death cloud animation and couldn't be stabbed, or that Thrall that clipped into the wall.

I do wonder about the outgoing damage, a frequent issue I've heard is that it seems the damage can wind up so high that no amount of extra health (Rhino/Nezha) or damage reducing abilities like Shatter Shield can prevent a down/death from happening.

It wouldn't be surprising if they didn't test the outgoing damage properly. The Tonkor Lichs also seem to just flat out ignore damage resistance and damage gates from what I've heard.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Aldain

[844448]

21 minutes ago, PsychoticHeaven said:

Im just going to say that there IS something wrong with the Litch missions! With 2k hours in this game, Ive done it all solo, even survivals for 4hrs! The people saying they are one shot with Rhino arent lying. My Umbral Rhino with 10k Iron skin was getting 1-2 shot all over the place...Chroma with 1k damage buff, I was mag dumping on Lvl 90s...some took 2 mags! Mirage...same thing!  Meanwhile using Loki I was able to do the missions, but when my Litch spawned(was testing mod combos so i could kill him), after I hit him a few times while moving and changing positions, he then ignored invisibility and one shot me(obviously). The only other frame I can even get to a point where my Litch will spawn is with my Umbral Oberon, yet again I get a few hits and as soon as I move I just drop dead! I havent been able to get near or finish a SINGLE litch mission to even test combos since day one. I honestly think some peoples games are bugged AF....As some people say nothing seems amiss while others, like me see a HUGE issue.! Using arcanes and rivens, like others said, 1-2 shot enemies much higher than these 90-110s, but in Litch missions im standing there mag dumping, and get nothing!!! I went and spawned 20 Heavy gunners to test and sure enough, everything checked out there at Lvl 90-110...until I got to Lvl 140-155.....Then it felt like the Litch missions!  Im kinda stuck now though as I wanted a higher level challenge only to be met with this mess of a update, for me anyway! O damn....Hold that thought! I havent tried Wu-Kong yet...BRB...lol

Really? I took down my lich using Mag or Nyx and didn't die at all, I don't even need to use 1 full mag for that. No arcanes at all

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

On 2019-11-04 at 2:50 AM, ZzVinniezZ said:

ok why it has to be 90-110 level along with enemies able to pin point accuracy and instant kill you? back then even kuva flood which is 80-90 is already hard enough to survived. After the introduction of Kuva Lich i realized how easily i'm to be killed by normal enemies because they are at level 90+. not to mention NOX glass cant be break despite my Tiberon prime with riven that deal massive damage back then. Having a squad is nice because we can kill enemies easily but 90% of the time i have to play solo because no one is on the same location and mission as i'm so at least can i get forgiving difficulty for playing Solo?

I hear you, I do. But in time, you'll tart finding level 100 enemies fairly simple to deal with, easy even. I remember when I thought level 50 was hard. Now my survival standard is to be CAPABLE of 3 hours in my loadout/s. I know I'm not alone in that area. If you're not with the flock who want harder content, you will be eventually. Enjoy the other 90% of the game for now. All that is for people like you. 

And, of course, having already started a lich. I'd say don't get another one until you are feeling a little more ready? Maybe you could get rid of yours in the lich trading in the dojo. Best of luck, my guy!

Edit: When you do missions, you can simply not do the kuva lich variant, yes? 

Edited November 22, 2019 by (XB1)Architect Prime

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

I do wonder about the outgoing damage, a frequent issue I've heard is that it seems the damage can wind up so high that no amount of extra health (Rhino/Nezha) or damage reducing abilities like Shatter Shield can prevent a down/death from happening.

It wouldn't be surprising if they didn't test the outgoing damage properly. The Tonkor Lichs also seem to just flat out ignore damage resistance and damage gates from what I've heard.

That could be an issue, I dunno.

What I do see though at least in terms of extractors, their health was the same as it would normally be on said planet. In this case, earth, so level 3 Lich minions would just annihilate the extractors before much of anything could be done. And my best efforts with Limbo, literally the best solo option for things like this, were met with embarrassing levels of failure I haven't seen since I first started playing and hit a point where my broken mods needed to go. Ironically DURING the missions to get Limbo no less. 

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, T.Hoagie said:

That could be an issue, I dunno.

What I do see though at least in terms of extractors, their health was the same as it would normally be on said planet. In this case, earth, so level 3 Lich minions would just annihilate the extractors before much of anything could be done. And my best efforts with Limbo, literally the best solo option for things like this, were met with embarrassing levels of failure I haven't seen since I first started playing and hit a point where my broken mods needed to go. Ironically DURING the missions to get Limbo no less. 

Extractors have always had that problem, when the mission type shows up as Sortie 3 it is more viable depending on the teamcomp to just drop and run until you reach the Cryotic limit.

Why extractors don't have a scaling like other defense objectives is a mystery to me.

The only thing that is making me question the Lich damage output though is just how much mixed details I'm hearing about them, some players are having no issues with squishy frames while others are having issues with things you'd think could survive easier because of abilities. Naturally that could just boil down to people trying to face-tank something they shouldn't be, but there could also be something oddly wrong with some of the weapons while the Lich is using them.

I mean even Zilchy (a high end player whose information I trust) despite having an easy time with their Lichs did say that the Tonkor seemed to be behaving oddly (Toxin Tonkor if I remember right), so I just wonder if there might be something up on the Lich side of the programming for some of the other weapons too. Of course that is just me thinking about reasons why things seem to vary so greatly from some players to others, it is no concrete theory or anything.

[Dharma-Beerlite]

On 2019-11-04 at 6:50 PM, ZzVinniezZ said:

ok why it has to be 90-110 level along with enemies able to pin point accuracy and instant kill you? back then even kuva flood which is 80-90 is already hard enough to survived. After the introduction of Kuva Lich i realized how easily i'm to be killed by normal enemies because they are at level 90+. not to mention NOX glass cant be break despite my Tiberon prime with riven that deal massive damage back then. Having a squad is nice because we can kill enemies easily but 90% of the time i have to play solo because no one is on the same location and mission as i'm so at least can i get forgiving difficulty for playing Solo?

 

also anyone got a bug where you got instant kill by Thrall despite them not even attack you or anyone else?

Its not difficult if you already been through arbitration/kuva survival mission over 60 mins. 

As for the match making. After weeks of "non lich stabber" whining and griefing Pub matches refuse to  deal with their lich and telling those capable of killing lvl 5 lich at ease to go solo. Most of these pool of players are  pissed off, they are either solo or stop doing liches till further steps to be taken by DE. Yes, its hard to get party over recruitment chat due to your planets of influence are not always same as the others. That's where i was telling those " non stabber' go do solo or recruitment as they are not killing liches any of their member influence planets will spawn thralls for their farming. Instead of understanding this issue they whining that "you don't tell me what i do in pub game" . 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Dharma-Beerlite

[Dharma-Beerlite]

On 2019-11-11 at 6:57 PM, Dazubo said:

Even though I don't have trouble with any lich missions in terms of difficulty (Nidus main) the way the enemies in the mission level skyrockets for no apparent reason doesn't make any sense. Seems like Grineer mooks just level vicariously through a Lich they've never met or even heard of.

Difficulty lvl is fine until some stupids got themself rad proc and spamming aoe trolling the squad dead. 

[T.Hoagie]

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

Extractors have always had that problem, when the mission type shows up as Sortie 3 it is more viable depending on the teamcomp to just drop and run until you reach the Cryotic limit.

Why extractors don't have a scaling like other defense objectives is a mystery to me.

The only thing that is making me question the Lich damage output though is just how much mixed details I'm hearing about them, some players are having no issues with squishy frames while others are having issues with things you'd think could survive easier because of abilities. Naturally that could just boil down to people trying to face-tank something they shouldn't be, but there could also be something oddly wrong with some of the weapons while the Lich is using them.

I mean even Zilchy (a high end player whose information I trust) despite having an easy time with their Lichs did say that the Tonkor seemed to be behaving oddly (Toxin Tonkor if I remember right), so I just wonder if there might be something up on the Lich side of the programming for some of the other weapons too. Of course that is just me thinking about reasons why things seem to vary so greatly from some players to others, it is no concrete theory or anything.

I guess, but this particular thing sits on the enemies spawned in the Lich missions, at least for me. My Lich, Tetzord, even when she shot me it didn't do much to my Ivara. But she was trying to single shot me at a long distance with her Kohm.

[ZepBladez]

If you can't handle your lich alone, you don't deserve their weapons.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

On 2019-11-22 at 7:40 PM, T.Hoagie said:

I guess, but this particular thing sits on the enemies spawned in the Lich missions, at least for me. My Lich, Tetzord, even when she shot me it didn't do much to my Ivara. But she was trying to single shot me at a long distance with her Kohm.

I've done quite a few lich's now and most of them can't scratch my Mesa. I admit I'm only using Mesa because it's a lazy way of doing it and very fast and it's not the most durable frame I could choose. So far the only challenging enemy that can do damage is the Toxic element lich's with their radiation attack if you fail to dodge it. But the one exception has been that Tonkor, I think it's just the AoE nature of the damage ignoring certain Warframe abilities due to bugs but it can basically 1 shot regardless of defenses on certain frames. My Wukong tanked 2 hits from it as an experiment before I had to use Magus Repair to heal. But the other guns they come with, yeh you're right, they can barely scratch you.

Edited December 9, 2019 by -CdG-Zilchy

[Wolfdoggie]

One of the main things I like about Lich system is it finally gives us missions that start at high level...

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I think it's just the AoE nature of the damage ignoring certain Warframe abilities due to bugs but it can basically 1 shot regardless of defenses on certain frames.

Man I wish they would fix that, I always hate getting blown to bits by random grenades.

Or at the very least make them more visible, like a blinking red orb or something.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

22 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Man I wish they would fix that, I always hate getting blown to bits by random grenades.

Or at the very least make them more visible, like a blinking red orb or something.

Play with sound, you can hear it and with good headphones you can tell where it is.

[Aldain]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Play with sound, you can hear it and with good headphones you can tell where it is.

I try my best believe me, but sometimes I hear it, run and still get caught by it, though that is usually when I have a lagging host more than anything.

Funniest grenade experience I ever had was when all 4 members of a Sortie run got downed by a single grenade that didn't make any noise for some reason (or got drowned out by the Valkyr Warcry). We all just sat there for a minute before mass reviving and having a laugh about it.

Makes you wonder why they just don't use nothing but grenades when they are often more effective than guns against us.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Aldain said:

I try my best believe me, but sometimes I hear it, run and still get caught by it, though that is usually when I have a lagging host more than anything.

Funniest grenade experience I ever had was when all 4 members of a Sortie run got downed by a single grenade that didn't make any noise for some reason (or got drowned out by the Valkyr Warcry). We all just sat there for a minute before mass reviving and having a laugh about it.

Makes you wonder why they just don't use nothing but grenades when they are often more effective than guns against us.

run? Bro, bullet jump in the air or hey just hit operator void mode, voila.

[Aldain]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

run? Bro, bullet jump in the air or hey just hit operator void mode, voila.

You know what I mean.

And like I said, most of my deaths to them are when a host is on potato internet, the rest are me just being dumb, distracted or in a knockdown.

...Though when they punch through defensive abilities I will admit that makes me a mite salty at times.

[KnightOwl_]

This thread needs a lot of Git Gud.

High level enemies make the mundane missions fun.  Just come prepared.