TFW you refuse to level up your Kuva Lich weapon because it's not the bonus you want and requires 5 Forma for max rank

[Jarriaga]

 

Better luck next time I guess.

[Skaleek]

I'm just keeping them built and ready to claim in my foundry until they either:

A. Add a way to increase the bonus (my idea is to let you increase it by 5% if you invest a forma and dont use it to gain a polarity, or pumping kuva into it would be nice, but knowing DE they would make this kuva investment a "roll" because RNG everything)

B. Just normalize all kuva weapons.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Skaleek

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Rather than having to invest 5 forma in each different kuva weapon, why not just auto-give the XP when we claim it? Similar to what they did with Skiajati and Umbra.

Heck, reduce the amount of XP they give and then auto-give when we claim them. Then if we decide to go max rank with the weapons we don't have to do it for the XP.

[LSG501]

5 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

B. Just normalize all kuva weapons.

To be fair this 'should' have been how it was from day one...  which is funny seeing as DE were complaining about storage space on rivens due to the rng nature of them....

I still say these weapons should have been like an 'arcane' for the existing weapons (ideally add the new ones into dojo/market) and not actually give xp...

Edited November 5, 2019 by LSG501

[Skaleek]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

To be fair this 'should' have been how it was from day one...  which is funny seeing as DE were complaining about storage space on rivens due to the rng nature of them....

Yeah its funny that. You know the kuva liches themselves have far more variables/stats that need to be stored than any riven and yet each one of us has no limits to how many liches we can kill and our codex will eventually fill passed the riven limit. But you know.... Plat for riven slots because "DB issues".

Since day 1 I've said i could store a rivens stats in very small amounts of data. As could a first year software engineering student. I get that DE needs to monetize but just be upfront about it. Anyways, that's an entirely different axe to grind.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Skaleek

[Avienas]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Rather than having to invest 5 forma in each different kuva weapon, why not just auto-give the XP when we claim it? Similar to what they did with Skiajati and Umbra.

Heck, reduce the amount of XP they give and then auto-give when we claim them. Then if we decide to go max rank with the weapons we don't have to do it for the XP.

Honestly i would not mind if they change it so the 1k affinity that you would normally gain from ranks 31 thru 40, is instead gained as a reward for having to farm the dang thing. Since the only major benefit i can notice with kuva weapons is the fact you do not build them, but it can techncially take WAAAAAY more then 1 day to just take care of one lich, unless people want to burn themselves out on it.

It honestly should never of had that 31-40 rank system added to kuva weapons, the fact that they were to be the `prime versions` of grineer weapons was already good enough, the fact they had to add a rng-sus element in the form of a innate elemental was annoying. Should of just been +50% elemental bonus period. Mixing multiple things may sound good to some people, but D.E. mixed the wrong ones in, without simplifying them to make up for the mess of hodge`podge with all the elements combined.

Heck lets go over all the elements that kuva liches/weapons have:

• Relic Farming, except its time-limited nodes and mass stocking requeim relics is even worst then axi farming, even if  you can just `solo` the nodes, though anyone with poor loadouts are going to likely get destroyed on kuva flood maps, the only way to `gurantee` a relic drop. Which you are likely going to want between 6 to 10 relics for each relic tier, twice over, per requiem mod.
• Technically optional, but basically like invasions with the murmurs (where you are going to do multiple runs to get something).
• Fissure grinding, plus trace farming cause everyone treats any reward that is silver or gold, must always be made radiant and in a group of 3 others, also with radiants.
• Collecting a `set` aka `stock`, just so you have that perfect setup, since no lee-way exists to take down liches. Aka the same logic where people will likely kick you from a clan, if you do not bring a perfect X duration harrow, to eidolon hunting, because they could not take the time to explain things and ae really getting ticked off because they neglected to explain before hand to the slightly new`ish eidolon hunter.
• Bonus duck!: The fact D.E. introduced something super new, where you can lose the requeim mods after you kill liches enough times with them, Seriously they could of just had about 16 kill words instead and have it vary between 2 to 5 possible kill word combinations, then this kind of fiasco. Least that would be more fair then having to re-farm requiem mods.
• Acolyte style fighting,except it got spliced with regular death-squad spawning with a slight modifier in the form of spamming the invasion missions, the things you normally would spam, to get zanuka hunter & gustrag 3 pissed at you anyway.
• Riven mods, except you can`t re roll the weapon(aka the `mod`)`s stats and basically do the entire thing from step 1, if its not the weapon you want or the element % spread.

Anyway sorry for the ramble that escalated from the fact Kuva weapon `re-farming` is a absurdly convoluted system.~

Edited November 5, 2019 by Avienas

[(PSN)hades297youthful]

u know there is a spreadsheet for elements and the required warframe to get it 

i know it does not do anything for the bonus but......its something. 

[CuChulainnWD]

I did not realise the variation in weapon elemental stats was so great until I came across this and similar threads. It makes me that much more reluctant to invest any forma into it even though it grants me more mastery. Add on top of that the 6-8 hr grind to just kill a lich, it does leave a sour  taste in my mouth. I agree there is way too much RNG involved to end up with a possible meh weapon for such hours invested.

[CuChulainnWD]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

I'm just keeping them built and ready to claim in my foundry until they either:

A. Add a way to increase the bonus (my idea is to let you increase it by 5% if you invest a forma and dont use it to gain a polarity, or pumping kuva into it would be nice, but knowing DE they would make this kuva investment a "roll" because RNG everything)

B. Just normalize all kuva weapons.

I agree with you to a point. However when a Forma costs 20 plat, and you invest 100 plat worth into it, I think we should have the polarity included too. It is the least DE could do to improve the situation.

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I agree with you to a point. However when a Forma costs 20 plat, and you invest 100 plat worth into it, I think we should have the polarity included too. It is the least DE could do to improve the situation.

Hey I'm all for getting the polarity too, I just know DE.

[Renegade343]

4 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I agree with you to a point. However when a Forma costs 20 plat, and you invest 100 plat worth into it, I think we should have the polarity included too. It is the least DE could do to improve the situation.

Or you save up a bit and get 3 Forma for 35 plat, which would result in a total of 58 plat.

[Jarriaga]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)hades297youthful said:

u know there is a spreadsheet for elements and the required warframe to get it 

i know it does not do anything for the bonus but......its something. 

Yes, but I did not know that when I generated my Lich with the actual weapon I wanted.

Also, we don't know if that is intentional or if it's a bug. Remember when Tridolons were introduced? At first, Arcanes were not being rewarded randomly. They followed a set pattern. Reddit compiled the list and DE corrected it to make it fully random, so we need to wait and see if they do the same here.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jarriaga

[the-bestia]

I dont care about riven mods and i wont care about kuva weapons, i'm gonna treat them like mastery fodder, i wont waste my mental sanity to try to get the perfect stats. If they change them, i will be more than happy, but right now i have absolutely no reason to care about them.

[CuChulainnWD]

11 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

Or you save up a bit and get 3 Forma for 35 plat, which would result in a total of 58 plat.

YEah I know that one too, I am talking in extreme cases, many people may not know that saving, the point is, it still costs plat if you do not have enough forma farmed.

[CuChulainnWD]

13 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Hey I'm all for getting the polarity too, I just know DE.

*Chuckles* True, but they do the right thing when you hold their feet to the fire, as in, hey we paid money for this, time you coughed up a little good will too.

[CuChulainnWD]

I had a discussion with a friend on this subject. Over all the concept of the Lich system is fantastic. It is on the right track. It has promoted the idea of more cooperative play among players, it is giving us something to do in what has been an otherwise dry season for content.

That said, there is a metric $hit tonne of rng involved, which I can understand up and to a point. The weapons. If DE has an issue that RNG variables are eating up their data bases then I would propose a solution that skaleek and a couple others touched on. For the 6-8 hours we spend going after a lich, our rewards should be good. Why not make all of the weapons standard as far as the variable. So you can go for your element as it stands now, use Ivara, Oberon etc to determine your element, but the percentage variables and stats for the weapons remain the same.

If you want to improve your weapon up to the 60% then you invest a forma for an 8% boost. You start with a weapon with a 20% boost to the stats, invest a forma to gain 8% for each of the 5 forma you invest up to the weapons max affinity level of 40, and the Elemental stat boost of 60%. That way there is a reason to invest forma which DE wants us to do, whilst also encouraging us to increase our stats and our Mastery. Problem solved?

[844448]

Tenno, you don't even need to level up if you don't like the bonus. It's not like that MR points will disappear if you don't want to level up the first weapon.

Get a kuva weapon with bonus you like and invest there, it's not the end of the world if you get a kuva weapon with bonus you don't like as your first

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I really don't understand this mentality that everything that drops have to me maxed out by effort then be rewarded for that effort to be compensated by more benefits. How much entitlement is there in this way of thinking?

[Jarriaga]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

I really don't understand this mentality that everything that drops have to me maxed out by effort then be rewarded for that effort to be compensated by more benefits. How much entitlement is there in this way of thinking?

If only DE didn't encourage you to increase your mastery level by offering a significant number of QoL benefits such as additional loadouts, Void trace reserves, and syndicate standing...

This time however, getting mastery means sacrificing 5 Forma, so there's a reason to hold on on wasting forma if the weapon is not to your liking.

No need to be a condescending douchebag about it by calling people entitled. More so when I have already resigned myself to wait until I get a better chance rather than demanding a better chance.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Educated_Beast]

Normalizing elemental damage to a set value per weapon (so always better than base version) combined with selecting weapon and not element in lich larva kill would improve system dramatically.  

Combine that with player to player trading and the system would be awesome.  The only randomness would be the element but since it's a set percent, you could always trade or buy the one you want. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

If only DE didn't encourage you to increase your mastery level by offering a significant number of QoL benefits such as additional loadouts, Void trace reserves, and syndicate standing...

This time however, getting mastery means sacrificing 5 Forma, so there's a reason to hold on on wasting forma if the weapon is not to your liking.

No need to be a condescending douchebag about it by calling people entitled. More so when I have already resigned myself to wait until I get a better chance rather than demanding a better chance.

Without putting any forma into the kuva weapon, can you get mastery points from it? Of course you can. Just stop there until a better weapon comes along. Everyone is full aware of the weapon bonus RNG. How many times have you invested in a weapon only for a prime version to come a few weeks later? This isn't even close to being like that. We all know full well those weapon bonus can be higher. It is up to the tenno clear mind without any outside influences to put so much time and effort into something that isn't even worth it just for a little bit of 1000 more mastery points.

[Oreades]

I really wish they would just ditch the 5 Forma shtick (read: Paracesis Effect) it's gross and doesn't just make me not want to interact with Liches it makes me want to never log back into Warframe if it is indeed the "new normal" for MR.

Honestly at this point I wish they had stuck to their initial guns and just said the Weapons gave no MR, instead of going with "Well now they give MR .... but here's the horrible catch". Yes I'm super salty at the moment ❤️

Edited November 5, 2019 by Oreades

[Jarriaga]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

Without putting any forma into the kuva weapon, can you get mastery points from it? Of course you can. Just stop there until a better weapon comes along. Everyone is full aware of the weapon bonus RNG. How many times have you invested in a weapon only for a prime version to come a few weeks later? This isn't even close to being like that. We all know full well those weapon bonus can be higher. It is up to the tenno clear mind without any outside influences to put so much time and effort into something that isn't even worth it just for a little bit of 1000 more mastery points.

Thank you for being more eloquent and less dismissive. I'll address you respectfully now.

While your comparison between regular and Prime weapons are fare, you at least get more control over them since they are not RNG. Not to mention the full scope of mastery for the Prime variant. In this case, the 5 forma investment unlocks additional 1,000 mastery. It's not much for one weapon, but it adds up to 14,000 for all current Kuva variants, so 3 and a half weapons worth of mastery on their own. You either bite the bullet and use them now, or wait until RNG gives you another chance.

8 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I really wish they would just ditch the 5 Forma shtick (read: Paracesis Effect) it's gross and doesn't just make me not want to interact with Liches it makes me want to never log back into Warframe if it is indeed the "new normal" for MR.

I actually don't have an issue with the number of Forma. Most of the weapons I use have 4-6 anyway.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Most of the weapons I use have 4-6.

Do mostly you use weapons you don't enjoy? 

I've got several weapons that I use that have between 3-8 forma in them but it's because I enjoy them not because I was the forma where being extorted for MR. 

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I actually don't have an issue with the number of Forma.

It isn't the number of Forma. Forma are relatively easy to get hell at last check ~4days (and counting) ago I had something like 40 just sitting around. It's the whole base concept behind it, it's just strait up gross as is the notion that "well you got the extra forma, just do it". That's not how forma should be used, they shouldn't be applied because you enjoy the gear above and beyond the first cycle to 30 (EG mastering the gear). 

Do I enjoy this [y/n] If yes then add Forma Else add to the pile in the event there is a rework so you don't have to refarm them. 

At this point I could even see myself naturally adding probably 3-5 forma to the Kuva Ayaya (I refuse to call it the Ayanga) naturally because (wait for it) I actually enjoy Archwing and apart from the clunky summoning mechanic (that I think they should just get rid of and integrate AW/Heavy guns into the base game because they are no more OP... well maybe the Flucutus than any other semi meta weapon in the game) I enjoy the heavy weapons in regular missions. 

That said at this point I am so disgusted by their choice to revisit the Paracesis Effect that I can't even bring myself to log back into Warframe. Because I know that any little thing EG the Kuva Lich stealing my Riven or whatever would go directly from "OMFG that is just stupid" and being able to shirk it off, directly to to Alt+F4 Select Steam Library > Warframe > Local Files > Delete. 

That is how abjectly disgusting I find the Paracesis Effect. Do not tie Forma usage to MR it is gross. 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Hotfix 26.0.4 includes this at the top:

Quote

Stockpiled Kuva Weapons: Receiving a better duplicate Kuva weapon after you’ve put work/Forma into an existing one can feel rather disappointing. With that in mind, we’re working on a “duplicate consumption” mechanic where you can combine 2 of the same Kuva weapons, thus transferring its buffs while preserving your Forma and Exilus investment, ergo relieving you of your inner turmoil. 

 

Sounds like this helps with some of the issue in this thread, at least the original post.