To get a perfect 60%...

[Midas]

Although the base damage is not that important...

I'd still like to get it as perfect as possible especially if I am going to use the weapon. Replacing my previous weapon sounds like i'll need to grind forever to get a perfect 60%.

Why not have them add up to 60% 35+45 = capped out at 60 even if it goes over.

I also suggest if you plan to keep this feature (as is) to significantly reduce murmur grind OR add a endless mission that gets MORE DIFFICULT but spawns MORE THRALLS overtime, this rewards the player for fighting higher level units.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Midas

[AreeSoothsayer]

No.

They've already made it easy enough.

[Xolgys]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb AreeSoothsayer:

No.

They've already made it easy enough.

agree.

i have 3 weapons with 54%+...and these bit remaining to 60% are not really a huge different in damage anyway in the end and in my opinion radiation is usually the most valuable since it allows things like corr rad heat and a radiation procc is so nice because one is already enough, so even a min roll radiation would be enough to use the confusion effect on a procc. the bonus to alloy alone wont make a big difference unless u mod for rad mainly anyway, so in damage the difference between these few % wont be noticable really.

i wouldnt torture myself for a few % which wont matter in the end. if i get a better one whilst farming for the remaining weapons/ephemera then sure, but i wouldnt aim for a perfect 60% unless i got anyway but anything 50%+ is already good enough imo.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Xydeth

[GruntBlender]

8 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

i have 3 weapons with 54%+...

Well lucky you then. The nature of RNG is that someone might end up with ten duplicates all below 30%. It's not even that unlikely, given how many players there are. I guess those people can just go suck a lemon.

[Midas]

12 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

agree.

i have 3 weapons with 54%+...and these bit remaining to 60% are not really a huge different in damage anyway in the end and in my opinion radiation is usually the most valuable since it allows things like corr rad heat and a radiation procc is so nice because one is already enough, so even a min roll radiation would be enough to use the confusion effect on a procc. the bonus to alloy alone wont make a big difference unless u mod for rad mainly anyway, so in damage the difference between these few % wont be noticable really.

i wouldnt torture myself for a few % which wont matter in the end. if i get a better one whilst farming for the remaining weapons/ephemera then sure, but i wouldnt aim for a perfect 60% unless i got anyway but anything 50%+ is already good enough imo.

Honestly fine if they make an endurance mode that rewards you the longer you stay. Kuva Lich is "Vet content lul"

[schilds]

Where are we getting these max values from? I've seen 60%, 80%, 90% claimed.

[MPonder]

Too much, add a flat amount like 5% per weapon.

[GruntBlender]

11 minutes ago, schilds said:

Where are we getting these max values from? I've seen 60%, 80%, 90% claimed.

People have 50+% weapons, but no 60+% weapons have been reported, so the actual max value is probably 60%. Minimum seems to be 20% or 25%, not sure.

[Vitoga]

Agreed.

[Midas]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DFqQaxNwoOuzB4vuMIgnqVvVRK1K9fh1BWTwkJB7v0E/edit?usp=sharing

@schilds

So far on our testing chart (raw data) that I posted under general discussion awhile back. We have over 100 samples that are all below 60% with one perfect 60% heat Karak. I have yet to see any physical proof of anything beyond 60%. The 85% shieldig picture is highly photoshopped (hammer is distorted).

[MPonder]

There is a math topic saying that you need around 160 attempts to get all the weapons, now imagine when you finally get the weapon you want and it is still with a lower bonus. So, more 160 attempts for that??

The RNG on the system is Riven level of bad. It is again a not sustainable content, and the only thing that will give longevity for it is its layers of RNG on RNG on RNG. After you get the rewards, IF and WHEN you get them, which is probably not going to happen for most people, there is 0 reasons to keep doing it. The system needs a fail safe for weapons and bonus. The bonus damage is kind huge the difference in dmg when modding two of the same weapons, one with low bonus and the other with high bonus, like around 20%+ increase in damage after modding them. My 26% heat stubba after Hornet, Primed Heat, Pestilence, Jolt, Barrel has 914.8 total dmg, now my 53% with same mods have 1118.2.

The lich system is pretty much a slap in the face of what the community was asking, sustainable for DE is RNG on RNG on RNG with a brain-dead, boring and long grind, challenge for DE is sponge enemies that you'll die because of RNG not because of mistake. Just another brain dead content for a cultist community.

[Xolgys]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb GruntBlender:

Well lucky you then. The nature of RNG is that someone might end up with ten duplicates all below 30%. It's not even that unlikely, given how many players there are. I guess those people can just go suck a lemon.

i think u missed my point right there...

 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb schilds:

Where are we getting these max values from? I've seen 60%, 80%, 90% claimed.

until i see such numbers i will keep 60% saved as maximum and 20% as minimum, since ive had a 24% myself and multiple 54%+ too, max being 58% on my kuva twin stubba.

i cant imagine more than 60% from a balance point. imagine the math getting fixed and then calculate again...its plenty strong having free 60% ont op of base dmg which also counts as base dmg for mods...its not like an element u add via mods because that wont influence other mods in terms of their scaling, it will only fuse into a combined element. this innate RNG bonus counts as base dmg so u can end up having quite the beast once the math on weapons with an innate base elemental like blast are fixed.

 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb GruntBlender:

People have 50+% weapons, but no 60+% weapons have been reported, so the actual max value is probably 60%. Minimum seems to be 20% or 25%, not sure.

i could confirm 20% since ive had a 24% kuva chakkhurr with heat. cant imagine any uneven value like 23% or 22% being min so....

[ciTiger]

I think the values are between 20-60% haven't seen prints with other values that didn't seem "altered" in some way.

But only DE can confirm this.

[GruntBlender]

14 hours ago, Xydeth said:

i think u missed my point right there...

I got your point. You missed mine. The complaint isn't about people with 50%+ rolls wanting the perfect 60, it's that the valence system is useless for people who keep getting guns under 30. There's no point telling someone with ten duplicates under 30% that 50% is good enough.

[Xolgys]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb GruntBlender:

I got your point. You missed mine. The complaint isn't about people with 50%+ rolls wanting the perfect 60, it's that the valence system is useless for people who keep getting guns under 30. There's no point telling someone with ten duplicates under 30% that 50% is good enough.

u can always argue RNG is bad or that its simply a motivation to play, hence long term effect.

its just people complaining about contradictionary things like content but then they want less RNG and then they complain they have nothing left to do once they got everything way too quickly. u cant have everything...that doesnt work. either u have a great looter game that doesnt give u everything just for free, or u have an easy game but u wonder how quickly theres nothing left to do...doesnt matter if its a beginner or a veteran hoping for new things to come into the game that he/she can play. if something can be obtained/finished too easily u will find urself at the very spot u were 3 days before.
 

[GruntBlender]

19 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

its just people complaining about contradictionary things like content but then they want less RNG and then they complain they have nothing left to do

I'm not asking to make things easier or faster, in other posts I specifically suggested slowing down the whole thing. I'm asking to remove the discouraging parts of the grind, like spending couple hours grinding for a thing you know is useless to you. It doesn't even have to be about getting the weapons faster, just an option to turn useless duplicates into something worth a couple hour grind.

Look at other things with decent grind for comparison. Tridolons get you tradable arcanes, farming for mods or arcanes in arbitration gets you endo, prime part farming gets you forma and ducats. Farming for kuva weapons gets you frustration. It's not fun. It's not rewarding. And it's easy to fix. Why are you defending a bad system?

[Xolgys]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb GruntBlender:

Why are you defending a bad system?

i am stating my opinion as u are stating urs right there.

[Vox_Preliator]

Isn't this just Rivens all over again?  "It's unreasonable to get the perfect roll" is pretty much the point of that system, and the same thing is happening here.

Everyone isn't "intended" to get a perfect roll without significant time and resource investment.  The bonus damage is a dumb mechanic and shouldn't have been introduced for a ton of reasons (much like rivens) but insisting on getting the ideal results instead of settling on 40-50% or so is setting yourself up for failure.

[Luxpluff]

2 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Isn't this just Rivens all over again?  "It's unreasonable to get the perfect roll" is pretty much the point of that system, and the same thing is happening here.

Everyone isn't "intended" to get a perfect roll without significant time and resource investment.  The bonus damage is a dumb mechanic and shouldn't have been introduced for a ton of reasons (much like rivens) but insisting on getting the ideal results instead of settling on 40-50% or so is setting yourself up for failure.

It is, and the point of the thread is to offer a solution to the problem. Are we supposed to just accept it's a flawed system and move on?

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Adding the full value would probably be too much since this meant for ongoing effort. 

Keep the "replace with higher value" option, but also add a "increase by 5%" option by feeding weaker ones. That way no weapon is a waste until you've got a maxed one. 

[GruntBlender]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Adding the full value would probably be too much since this meant for ongoing effort. 

It still has an end point, eventually. Also there are ephemera to grind for. And getting an army of liches for empyrean.

[Gaxxian]

It should give a minimum +5% bonus. So, if u mix 2 weapons, at least wins a little bonus dmg (up to 60%, of course).

[RedDirtTrooper]

11 hours ago, Xydeth said:

u can always argue RNG is bad or that its simply a motivation to play, hence long term effect.

its just people complaining about contradictionary things like content but then they want less RNG and then they complain they have nothing left to do once they got everything way too quickly. u cant have everything...that doesnt work. either u have a great looter game that doesnt give u everything just for free, or u have an easy game but u wonder how quickly theres nothing left to do...doesnt matter if its a beginner or a veteran hoping for new things to come into the game that he/she can play. if something can be obtained/finished too easily u will find urself at the very spot u were 3 days before.
 

I just want to the system to be fun, and for it not to feel demotivating and awful when I roll a lich and it has a weapon that I already have with a lower damage bonus. In that situation I'm facing a 2-3 hour grind to get rid of a lich for zero gain, beyond a pretty pointless and ineffective free specter that shows up based on RNG and disappears quickly thereafter if I choose to convert it.

Also, consider the different types of gamer psychology. Some of us, psychologically, can't just be "satisfied" with a good enough roll. It's not like I can just turn off the part of my brain that insists anything less than a 60% bonus is trash. I'm happy for you that you can roll a 50% and just shrug it off as good enough. I wish I was wired that way, but I'm not. It's ruined other games for me in the past, and I can recognize when it's happening, but I can't just choose not to feel the way I feel. 

There are two very simple solutions to the problem though. One is a hypothetical case where Empyrean is going to suddenly make converted liches much more desirable than they are now, so converting them feels like a gain and progression rather than just resetting the slot machine. The other is to just give us some kind of progression on getting a better damage bonus when we fuse in a kuva weapon with a lower bonus. I've seen 5% thrown around as a good amount for that and I don't see how this would be too fast for anyone considering the situation reasonably either. Consider you roll a 25% bonus on a weapon and never roll a higher bonus after that. That's 7 duplicate weapon liches, at 2-3 hours of grind, to reach a 60% bonus. A 14-21 hour grind, and that's before you add the layer of RNG for which weapon your lich spawns with. 

[vomder]

Or they could you know, just get rid of this grindception. And make the weapons all have the  same fixed damage bonus and stop disrespecting players time with nonsense like this.

[GruntBlender]

7 minutes ago, vomder said:

Or they could you know, just get rid of this grindception. And make the weapons all have the  same fixed damage bonus and stop disrespecting players time with nonsense like this.

No, see, grind is the only way to make content last a long time /s