It only took 2 weeks for people to lose interest in Kuva Lich gameplay

[Oreades]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah after the first week I knew it was going to take them longer than 2 weeks to fix the issues.

Well in fairness ..... it took them a year(?) to finally just admit Archwing Charges where a flop.... we're still waiting for the Removal of Stasis and that was announced to be on the chopping block Two(?) mainlines ago? I keep hoping "It's gonna be this mainline, it's gonna be this mainline, it's gonna be this mainline" hopefully Stasis will vanish with our orbiter rework? Even Titania "reworks" have mostly been window dressing on the same old abilities that just aren't that great but hey they tied Razorflies to Tribute so guess people will finally be forced have a reason to ever use it.

And that's just recent(ish) times, there is a track record of clinging on to things even when it seems pretty darn obvious out of the gate that they aren't worth clinging to. 

[MirageKnight]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'd warrant they are currently waiting for a lull in the vitriol so when they do announce what they're going to do it can be to people who have calmed down a bit.

With this community? Good luck with that.

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Granted I don't expect most people to calm down, but it is a valid way to address something, people are at their most stubborn at the peak of their anger, some will even say "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" even if you do exactly what they want while they are still fuming.

Valid point, but some people are angry - and getting angrier by the hour - at DE's silence on the matter. That silence lends the impression to at least some of us that DE doesn't regard the issue as being important enough.

[Oreades]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'd warrant they are currently waiting for a lull in the vitriol so when they do announce what they're going to do it can be to people who have calmed down a bit.

Alternative theory, they're waiting to see if people will just plug their noses and drink the medicine so they don't have to make further changes. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

And it sucks rather then them communicate what's going on what there doing  to fix the issues or explain why it is as such it's just been silence 

Tbf they did address some pretty major stuff last week . At was the weekend.

IDK I just want the Grendel farm changed.

[Aldain]

Just now, MirageKnight said:

Valid point, but some people are angry - and getting angrier by the hour - at DE's silence on the matter. That silence lends the impression to at least some of us that DE doesn't regard the issue as being important enough.

DE is kind of stuck in a no-win situation overall right now.

Their only option is to find a way to lose the least, which when you consider our complaints and the whole debate overall is either poetic or ironic.

[MirageKnight]

4 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Alternative theory, they're waiting to see if people will just plug their noses and drink the medicine so they don't have to make further changes. 

Not drinking that kool-aid.

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Their only option is to find a way to lose the least, which when you consider our complaints and the whole debate overall is either poetic or ironic.

I think the right thing to do, right now, is say "We understand you all are a bit riled up right now, but we'll get back to you soon with some ideas for possible solutions."

[Avienas]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

5 factors? There are 2. One is the weapon, the second is the damage roll % of the type you picked.

It doesnt take several hours at all. Chasing murmurs applies to the first 2 liches pretty much, since at that point in time you lack mods so gain no real progress killing yourself over getting extra thralls. After those two liches you should probably be swimming in mods, which means you can run liches back to back in very short sessions. There honestly isnt much prep work involved aside from looking at your Lich's info card and seeing his weakness, resistance and immunity. After that you pretty much just equip a weapon with damage matching weakness and go start wrecking him/her/it. I mean it is nowhere on the level of riven obtainment where you can get one guaranteed per week and have 7 chances at others. And that is to just obtain them, then the rerolling starts.

It would also not be a good solution to tie the % value to the level of a lich, because in certain cases you want a low roll simply to have the effect on the weapon for the status proc, but not at a value that would impact other statuses more than required. Heat for instance on weapons intended for corrosive+heat setup would do better with a minimum roll than a max one, since heat only needs to proc each 8 seconds, so a higher value would just interfear more with your corrosive stat.

And a load of kuva from liches would not be a solution. They are far too trivial to give such rewards really. They would completely render all other kuva content obsolete since they would be a far more effective approach to grinding it in addition to their other rewards. If they do turn them into engaging encounters then sure, but as they are now, in their glorified thrall state, not so much.

 

Yanno i had this long speech i was going to reply to you but sadly keyboard decided to screw with me and delete the message so i`ll just skim thru it super fast.

The 5-6 or something Factors with Liches.

1. Seeing what weapon the kuva lich has and cursing the fact you cant scrap them at this stage cause its another fking duplicate weapon or weapon you have zero care for.
2. Farming the relics, even if you can stabbers Thralls for them now, you still want a mass stock to get thru many of them at once. Plus we all know ya`ll want to spam siphons too even if its not GUARANTEED to get the relic, since again, you want many relics to get many mods, cause of that stupid 3 use rule with the mods.
3. Burning those relics in the equilvency of a burning man concert of sorts because you want to be up all night burning those relics for mods as ridiculously as possible.
4. Enjoy what could technically be optional stabbing spree of thralls to narrow down what you need to keel that lich, plus hope you chance in on some more relics.
5. Finally get to enjoy the stabber spree of the lich which is likely the fun part, except the fact he keeps breaking your back every time you Yeet`m with just one mod in the wrong position, he gets stronger, it gets much more difficult to YEET`m and you likely have to deal with the frustration of constantly restarting kuva thrall mission nodes to spawn the bloke, even after you got him furious after YEET`ing all his thralls in mass genocide that is even worst then a Dark sector resource farming session.
6. Enjoy repeating the steps on this bloody weapon and likely be forced to spend plat to `buy liches` from other people, but sadly since console aint getting that update, we have to do it the `hard` way.
7. Once we have a stockpile of weapons, sacrifice some plat for an affinity booster and have a massive stockpile of forma prepared in advance, so you can get thru as many weapons as possible for that mastery or just so you can get thru the PAIN of going thru 5 forma on a single weapon.

Why it might takes several hours.

Mainly for those who are `regular people` who rather not do long sessions and will take much longer to obtain the goods they need so just getting one lich done might be tiresome to them. Unlike the more grind-heavy weapon, which as i am one of those people who is able to have loads of time on my hand to the point i can multiple times a week, do a warframe grind between 7am to 2am the next day, i would like to say i am one of those `Lunatic level grinders`, when the content i am grinding on is very interesting enough to keep my attention. Of course i have RL things i have to attend to daily of course, just saying i might be one of those who might get thru the things much faster then normal people due to the level of `commitment` i can take, which is likely going to be an intention to prepare enough mods to get thru 4-8 lichs in a day, so i can get the weapons first, then concern myself about improving the ones i really like.

Why its a good idea to tie % to Kuva lich level.

Because there is a thing where a game is suppose to have DIFFICULTY to be the defining factor if one wanted to get the greatest of goods. Try doing an extra dungeon in any of the Tales series games(such as Tales of Berseria) and you will know how B.S. some of those bosses are to where they make achieving that defeat against the final boss a freaking joke. Plus if a game relied entirely on rng-sus, for its content, even if its made in a fun way (try looking up a Indie-like title called Dicey Dungeons), it can eventually getting sickening when everyone has to rely on rngsus for everything and it basically means ones effort means next to nothing, whether its someone who carries you thru the dang thing or you totaled that boss at some guiness world record kind of expertise. Which is certainly a bad feel when one`s efforts are not rewarded for achieving something, especially on higher level content.

As for the Kuva?

Quite literally the only thing that honestly relates to them, thar weapons might as well just be regular weapons who got kuva slapped on them to evolve into some mutant variant weapon. Plus they all involve RNG-sus factors anyway and since we are getting around 13 `kuva weapons, with about 3-4 of them being new weapons and plenty of them, kind of making nearly 10 old weapons into interest again, it basically hypes up getting riven mods for them. So it only makes sense for people to have the difficult content, which brings out a method to get extra riven mods, kuva and new variant weapons and is bloody themed after kuva as its entire dang story schmick and have very high level enemies attached to it, that one should get SIZEABLE loot and if D.E. cant multiply the loot you get back from the kuva lich based on its level when you finally kill it, Then the only other alternative would be kuva as an extra static reward on top of that random weapon which is the ONLY thing you ultimately get when you kill a lich.

 

I`ll avoid rattling on anything extra, but point-n-case like i keep saying, D.E. needs to do additional changes to the thing, since clearly its just a bunch of patch-works hotfixes to put it in a somewhat acceptable state. Which some just clucked those who want to chase duplicate weapons for higher elemental values and those who have to be tempted to `buying liches off of players` to get perfect rolled weapons or specific weapons in general, even if they have plenty of mods to go thru another 10 liches.

[Oreades]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Tbf they did address some pretty major stuff last week . At was the weekend.

Did they? The biggest thing they did was giving people an opt-out by making it opt-in, the rest felt more like window dressing. They didn't actually solve the problem they just slightly distracted people from it. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Oreades said:

Did they? The biggest thing they did was giving people an opt-out by making it opt-in, the rest felt more like window dressing. They didn't actually solve the problem they just slightly distracted people from it. 

To be fair they also did some pretty big melee fixes as well that week.

They crammed too much into one update so they have to split their focus on things. This week however is likely to be dedicated to the Lich System I'd wager.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Tbf they did address some pretty major stuff last week . At was the weekend.

IDK I just want the Grendel farm changed.

How bad is it? Because if so I'm just gonna buy em and call it a day. And at the same time what did I miss. Besides the rng reduction and stuff I thought I was pretty caught us  

[Oreades]

Just now, Aldain said:

To be fair they also did some pretty big melee fixes as well that week.

They crammed too much into one update so they have to split their focus on things. This week however is likely to be dedicated to the Lich System I'd wager.

I will give you there where a fair number of technical fixes.

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

How bad is it?

Depends on your stance of having to fight level 40ish enemies with no mods whatsoever.

Generally it is considered either a bold new move by DE or just a boring slog where cheese is the name of the game.

I don't even do arbitrations in the first place so I won't say either or myself.

[Avienas]

49 minutes ago, IIDMOII said:

It took me all of 3 minutes skimming the patch notes to realize this wasn't going to be fun. (It isnt).

You know you've gone too far down the free to play rabbit hole when I've been taught to immediately skim patch notes for the "hook", "catch" or "con" before even playing.

DE: we have new content! It's about....

Me: stop! What's the catch? What's the long con? What do you want from me?

Every time a new update comes along it's the first thing I do. I parse how much of a disrespectful waste of my life it's going to be and make mental note of anything that can be skipped with platinum.

Sad really.

That reminds me honestly how many times i prepared 100-300 plat in advance to skim over a few prime parts due to them being things like rare parts in axi relics. Which considering this was pre-disruption era at the time. No one is going to enjoy camping hours upon hours in Xini Ceres to constantly repeatedly reload after rotation 4 each time just to get a single chance at Axi relic. While also praying to Tyr Regor`s deceased mechanical Abs that one of the open world bounties pops up with relics of those new prime parts so you can speed run that instead to have slightly better odds and less mandatory team-mates, to hope you get the right items and in mass stockpiles.

Granted, as long as D.E. doesnt cluck people and forget to put the relics in certain maps again, i should be able to avoid spending plat for Ivara Prime this next time, till i get stuck with the usual b.s. of bad rng-sus in the fissures and constantly having to get new peoples after a single rotation of fissure relic parts opening.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

How bad is it? Because if so I'm just gonna buy em and call it a day. And at the same time what did I miss. Besides the rng reduction and stuff I thought I was pretty caught us  

Lvl 40 endurance missions with 0 mods, no operator, no gear menu, and no fun. Pretty much just hell.

And the biggest issue with Liches were the RNG so any kind of reduction is nice. Unfortunately the best reduction would be just make the requiem mods non-consumable. But we all know DE won’t do that.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Lvl 40 endurance missions with 0 mods, no operator, no gear menu, and no fun. Pretty much just hell.

And the biggest issue with Liches were the RNG so any kind of reduction is nice. Unfortunately the best reduction would be just make the requiem mods non-consumable. But we all know DE won’t do that.

And people were calling that a challenge? That's just telling us "hey we've told you collect your mods and get stronger over the years wait for it you're gonna be challenged" boom you can't use anything you've worked for..... 

 

They really need a system to combat the needless death like 84 suggested a QuickTime event to escape it would be nice and incentivizes people to attempt a stab

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

10 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Depends on your stance of having to fight level 40ish enemies with no mods whatsoever.

Generally it is considered either a bold new move by DE or just a boring slog where cheese is the name of the game.

I don't even do arbitrations in the first place so I won't say either or myself.

It's not hard it's annoying. It's not creating challenge to do a mod less run as I can just still run inaros rhino or a frame that's naturally tanky and cheese it. Nezha wukong etc. It's just telling you to run a cheese setup and get what u want. I'll be skipping ig

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It's not hard it's annoying. It's not creating challenge to do a mod less run as I can just still run inaros rhino or a frame that's naturally tanky and cheese it. Nezha wukong etc. It's just telling you to run a cheese setup and get what u want. I'll be skipping ig

I'm the lucky one who still hasn't cleared the star chart from laziness, so I haven't even done a single arbitration.

It also doesn't help that I find Grendel's design just...ugly so I won't be tempted to farm/spend plat on him either.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

And people were calling that a challenge? That's just telling us "hey we've told you collect your mods and get stronger over the years wait for it you're gonna be challenged" boom you can't use anything you've worked for.

Yeah, not exactly a challenge. More of a slapdash way of stacking the odds against the player. Easily the worst frame acquisition in the entire game.

[Oreades]

33 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Not drinking that kool-aid.

Is it Kool-aid tho? 

It's technically to a degree the prudent move, since people are likely never going to be happy initially with any change that isn't pure power creep, tho again I site Archwing charges.

Those took over a year to remove to the game I want to say there where two or three iterations of trying to get players to use them before that finally happened. Accompanied by a long period of forgetting Archwing existed yet again. Their removal should have come much sooner but I suspect part of that was they reached a point where they just didn't care about them and happily would have abandoned them in the game as is, had it not been for releasing more content that utilized atmospheric Archwing. At which point they where directly faced with having to deal with their previous misstep. 

I'd rather not see Liches left to languish for year(s) until adding a new faction of Lich forces them to finally address the basic faults with the system.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Oreades

[AzureTerra]

Sensibly silent i would say, likely working on things to come and looking at hotfixes for current issues. Players always overblow anything wrong with a game and will make noise until its changed to suit them or close enough (wishful thinking i know since many are never happy with anything). 

The best thing DE did with the Lich's was making them optional. Anything after that is gravy.

[Kaotyke]

24 minutes ago, Oreades said:

It's technically to a degree the prudent move, since people are likely never going to be happy initially with any change that isn't pure power creep,

Actually... about that...

You just need to take a look at old Baro threads about he wasnt bringing any new weapons. You would have the people denoncing power creep showing up pretty damn fast.

[Oreades]

44 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Actually... about that...

You just need to take a look at old Baro threads about he wasnt bringing any new weapons. You would have the people denoncing power creep showing up pretty damn fast.

People aren't going to be happy with a change that that is presented as a nerf or one that doesn't solve the problem but given protracted time they might come to Stockholm it. 

Power creep is an issue but it goes by many names, progression is one of them tho progression without purpose which is ultimately counter productive. You toss power creep at the general playerbase and they will for the most part be happy as clams, which is likely why DE has been as loos with it as they have. 

My guess still stands, we are in the "will they take the medicine" phase and I hope we aren't going to see another protracted amnesia phase like we did with Archwing Charges. 

[kubbi]

When I read all the layers upon layers of RNG I knew I this wasnt for me. Didnt bother with the liches and in their current state I wont. Not worth it. Certainly doesnt seem like fun. Trading doesnt make it better either.

[Fire2box]

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

There's still balancing issues they're fiddling with though.

Until they stop fiddling with it like ESO, like profit taker, like eidolons, well I'm sure you get the point. 

Time to wait and hope there's something this week and if not, get DE's own collective thoughts via dev stream on how Lich system is actually in a good position. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Fire2box

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

8 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Until they stop fiddling with it like ESO, like profit taker, like eidolons, well I'm sure you get the point. 

Time to wait and hope there's something this week and if not, get DE's own collective thoughts via dev stream on how Lich system is actually in a good position. 

Lol de's not gonna do anything