It only took 2 weeks for people to lose interest in Kuva Lich gameplay

[DesertEagle1280]

I agree with the rewards as the main problem - the rng and grind wouldn't be so bad if even "downgrade" weapons could be rolled into existing weapons to up their %.  I advised them that every lich should be a player-postive (ie net gain for player), and there needs to be 0 chance of a player-negative (loss of time/resources invested for no or marginal return).  Especially with the layers of RNG on things like getting the mods to take down the liches, after battling exponential layers of RNG, a net loss "reward" is a slap in the face, pure and simple.

See: 

 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

48 minutes ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

I knew this update was going to be a disaster. In glad I uninstalled this game to regain some space in my system (console). I will reinstall and try melee 3.0 and the Guass buffs I've been waiting TWO MOTHER#*!%ING GODDAMN MONHS FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HONESTLY THIS IS #*!%ING ABSURD. WHAT! THE! #*!%!?

Uhhh, gauss doesn't need a buff lol, he's fine as he is.

[Marvaz]

On 2019-11-18 at 2:03 AM, RobWasHere said:

You have 4 free revives. 5 or 6 with arcanes. 7 with Wukong. Warframe spoiled us over years and people are too afraid too die. It's not that we have limited revives per frame like ages ago. And it's not Arbitation

I don't think thats the problem to them, you loose nothing by diying once on those missions, what these folks fear is the raise in mobs level, I'd love to know if those who don't want to deal with their liches are the same tryhards that come to the forums to trashtalk about the game being too easy, I will seriously laugh to death.

Back to the topic though, I have not experienced any negative interactions simply because I hunt them liches solo, not efficient? don't know about that but at least I chill and have fun, that's the most important.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Marvaz
Grammar

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Marvaz said:

I don't think thats the problem to them, you loose nothing by diying once on those missions, what these folks fear is the raise in mobs level, I'd love to know if those who don't want to deal with their liches are the same tryhards that come to the forums to trashtalk about the game being to easy, I will seriously laugh to death.

I personally have the issue of it being a death that has no business being there in the first place.

Everyone who says "It is just a revive" doesn't have an answer for why we even need to revive in the first place, and no, saying "Because that's how DE made it" isn't an answer.

This automatic death isn't the same as if the Lich actually WON against you, the player wins the fight and for some reason comes out WORSE FOR WEAR than the supposed immortal Lich which returns from death if not killed properly.

You don't tell a player "You won, now you lose a life" in a game, imagine playing Mario Bros and losing a life when you touch the flagpole, it is just ridiculous.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, Softballbryan said:

I disagree. It’s about acting correctly in public. There are rules on how to act. Learn the rules or face the consequences. Simply act decent and try to be kind... 

Indeed.

Which means don't harass / pressure others or behave like an impatient jackass. If you don't like the idea of people harassing or bullying you...then don't do those things to other people.

Don't like the players you've been teamed up with? Abort and find another mission.

If you find yourself in a situation where you're being bullied, screenshot, leave the mission, and report the player/s.

Really easy things to do.

Thanks for reading!

Edited November 19, 2019 by MirageKnight

[MPonder]

You get your back broken, and don't resist, so you revive.

[Althaline]

2 hours ago, Anarbitrio said:

Nobody will dance on your corpse in mockery.

If I see you in game, I might dance on your corpse just to prove you wrong. It is, after all, a tradition as old as online games.

[Gasau]

If a player does not want to die from his own lich because "reasons" just leave the mission for lulz.

Best thing is if you go to mobile defense and leave the player who wont atack his lich because he cant kill him. He gonna fail this mission with 90% chance 😂 lvl 100 hit pretty hard on objective.

Then you can observe funny comments from these guys and their threats in the messages.

 

 

These A******s not only spoil the game for the rest of the team, they also say go play solo.

When exactly are they a problem. AND THEY SHOULD GO TO THE SOLO if they don’t want to die from a lich.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2019-11-18 at 10:18 PM, Paradoxity said:

Useful enough for our purposes, unless we assume most players on PC are on the standalone launcher, and of them, the majority have engaged with the lich content. It's by no means the best measurement tool, but it's one of the best we can get in a fast and dirty setup like this. The idea isn't so much to show all players- warframe, as a free to play, is gonna have hordes of rank 0-2 abandoned accounts floating around, and we can't count them (Hence the numbers  shown above, I imagine)

Steam is a really poor indication when it comes to who has done new content, because it doesnt really account for active players. It lumps everyone into a mix, active and inactive, low level and high level. You need to actually do some math to see what those 0.9% actually end up as, which gives a whole different insight to how used the Lich system is. What we know is that 0.9% out of 18+ million "accounts" have created a lich, that equals to 180000 players according to Steam. That means that there are around 180k active players interested in liches through Steam. If we also assume the Standalone has the same activity we are looking at 360000 (a little more when we add in discord too) that have spawned a lich and engaged in the system.

To add further on that, this adds up to around 10% or a little more of the total active playerbase of WF if we go by slightly dated data from Leyou. And that is before consoles have even gotten hold of it. So we are looking at an endgame mode actually used by possibly up towards 20% of the active PC playerbase even though Steam shows only 0.9% in their faulty achievment tracker.

[Melanholic7]

1 час назад, ShadowExodus сказал:

Uhhh, gauss doesn't need a buff lol, he's fine as he is.

Gauss need huge buffs for....on his....mmmm...wait, he doesnt rly need them ,yeah. 😃 He is my easy pick now, he is just so...decent. Like wisp, Wukong. At least for my Melee-only Gauss gameplay. I love him ❤️

[MiriaChan]

On 2019-11-15 at 11:53 AM, White_Matter said:

What went wrong ? 

Like always... "the rewards are the problem".

I like the kuva liches but when u have all the wpns or all the wpns U want, its over.

Farming for better elem % on wpn, "10% drop ephemera" or more "kuva" (if that the new reward they want to add) its a 100% no way for me.

[Paradoxity]

50 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Steam is a really poor indication when it comes to who has done new content, because it doesnt really account for active players. It lumps everyone into a mix, active and inactive, low level and high level. You need to actually do some math to see what those 0.9% actually end up as, which gives a whole different insight to how used the Lich system is. What we know is that 0.9% out of 18+ million "accounts" have created a lich, that equals to 180000 players according to Steam. That means that there are around 180k active players interested in liches through Steam. If we also assume the Standalone has the same activity we are looking at 360000 (a little more when we add in discord too) that have spawned a lich and engaged in the system.

To add further on that, this adds up to around 10% or a little more of the total active playerbase of WF if we go by slightly dated data from Leyou. And that is before consoles have even gotten hold of it. So we are looking at an endgame mode actually used by possibly up towards 20% of the active PC playerbase even though Steam shows only 0.9% in their faulty achievment tracker.

Like I've said- a couple of times- I'm well aware steam is bloody awful. Without access to more data, like hard numbers on standalone players- which we're unlikely to get- we can only work with what we've got, unless we're fine trying to use anecdotal evidence from the forum (Which is significantly worse). 

But let's go from the 18,000,000+ steam accounts on warframe (Sourced, no doubt, from here ). Because I agree- the numbers are going to be skewed by accounts that are registered and never touched (And, thus, shouldn't be counted). Where we get the number 18,000,000 is a little sketchy to me- the data is old and given the listed max peak (Again, on steam) of 87,616 (Source) players I think it's probably significantly high for basing active accounts on but we'll work with it (As it's the only hard numbers we have right now). Of those 18,000,000 we have 0.9% generating a lich. That'd be 162,000 liches created. We also have that 3.8% have reached at least MR17 (Which, again, at the risk of repeating myself, is not a good measure, and I'm more than open to anyone with a better system, using the hard data we have access to, in determining what does or doesn't constitute an active account). That's 684,000 players. 

The problem in adding the standalone is we don't have data for it. The only data we do have is they claim (In the slightly dated secondhand data here ) 50 million accounts. 

But, let's assume the standalone has the same relative numbers. That means of the standalone players we'd show roughly the same percentages of activity- that is, roughly 4% of players registered are actually playing. We know there are roughly 18,000,000 steam accounts, so it'd be 4% of 36,000,000 or roughly 1,440,000 active players. That would also mean roughly 1% have engaged with the lich content- so we're looking at 360,000 liches. It probably doesn't, but let's assume it does. that'd be 360,000 liches created from roughly 1440000 players on the standalone. This would total out to 522,000 Liches created by 2,124,000 players... or roughly 25%- the 1 in 4 I originally arrived at via just the steam numbers.   

EDIT: Sorry, this comes off as really confrontational, and it's not meant to be at all. I was just trying to show that, digging into what data we do have available past the steam numbers still leaves us at the  roughly 1 in 4 numbers we got initially. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Paradoxity
clarification

[LSG501]

Why are people losing interest....

From a personal perspective, it's the excessive amount of rng/grind required to essentially get a skinned weapon (outside of the three new ones) with some changed stats... if DE had designed the system correctly they'd have left duplicates off the table until you'd got them all but nope that wouldn't waste our time while DE catches up on the rest of the updates they're massively behind on.

Throw in limited use on the mods used to kill the enemy, the 5 forma to get the full xp from said weapon (honestly feels like a plat grab along with the weapon rework and limited compensation) and the fact that there is even an rng element in terms of how strong the weapon is and well it really makes me not want to bother....in fact I haven't yet. 

Now don't get me wrong I don't mind the weapon approach but the amount of effort required to get them is disproportionate to the effort DE put into actually making them as a reward. 

[Brey223]

Scrolling through all of these comments I want to point something out. You have anywhere for 4-6 revives and seven if you’re using wukong if not more from how his system works. Dying only affects affinity since that’s what you sacrifice in order to revive. When you get downed by any other method outside of the lich you have anywhere from 30seconds to a minute of a bleed out timer that allows your teammates to pick you up. Stabbing the lich and failing gives you 10 thralls worth of murmur on top of the other thralls that spawn. Plus you should be guessing your mods cause you could get super luck and get one if not all of your mods on that go and move on to your next lich. Also allowing other players liches to spawn who may already be at the kill/convert stage of their lich and be able to move on to their own next one. 
 

So my only question here is “are you trying to level something up in a lich mission? If so, why?”

Edited November 19, 2019 by Brey223
Phone keyboard borked my numbers.

[Marvelous_A]

Probably like every single feature in the past - released and forgotten.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Brey223 said:

Scrolling through all of these comments I want to point something out. You have anywhere for 4-6 revives and seven if you’re using wukong if not more from how his system works. Dying only affects affinity since that’s what you sacrifice in order to revive. When you get downed by any other method outside of the lich you have anywhere from 30seconds to a minute of a bleed out timer that allows your teammates to pick you up. Stabbing the lich and failing gives you 10 thralls worth of murmur on top of the other thralls that spawn. Plus you should be guessing your mods cause you could get super luck and get one if not all of your mods on that go and move on to your next lich. Also allowing other players liches to spawn who may already be at the kill/convert stage of their lich and be able to move on to their own next one. 

 

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

Everyone who says "It is just a revive" doesn't have an answer for why we even need to revive in the first place, and no, saying "Because that's how DE made it" isn't an answer.

This automatic death isn't the same as if the Lich actually WON against you, the player wins the fight and for some reason comes out WORSE FOR WEAR than the supposed immortal Lich which returns from death if not killed properly.

You don't tell a player "You won, now you lose a life" in a game, imagine playing Mario Bros and losing a life when you touch the flagpole, it is just ridiculous.

 

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

 

 

The point still stands. It is simply a revive. If you’re that scared of dying run nidus and get 15 stacks. He doesn’t die and just loses stacks. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

The point still stands. It is simply a revive. If you’re that scared of dying run nidus and get 15 stacks. He doesn’t die and just loses stacks. 

But answer me WHY a pointless death is a good design choice.

I don't care about the revive, I want to know WHY it is a good thing, because honestly, I can't see one good reason for it.

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

But answer me WHY a pointless death is a good design choice.

I don't care about the revive, I want to know WHY it is a good thing, because honestly, I can't see one good reason for it.

Shadow of mordor. You get killed and the guy that killed you becomes stronger. “Why the death though.” You get killed by the lich and they become stronger. Over take more planets and steal more of your stuff. It’s a sound system. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

Shadow of mordor.

Doesn't Kill you when you WIN against the Uruk.

If you died in Shadow of Mordor you LOST the fight.

Here you die when you WIN.

Notice the issue?

[Brey223]

Just now, Aldain said:

Doesn't Kill you when you WIN against the Uruk.

If you died in Shadow of Mordor you LOST the fight.

Here you die when you WIN.

Notice the issue?

You don’t die when you win the fight. You die when you lose the fight. This isn’t dark souls, you don’t lose your weapons or money or platinum. You create a lich because you want that sweet RNG on an enphemera or weapon. If you don’t then don’t create your lich. Don’t take things that need to level up. You don’t take stuff to level up into a sortie so why would you here?

[zoffmode]

Just now, Aldain said:

Doesn't Kill you when you WIN against the Uruk.

If you died in Shadow of Mordor you LOST the fight.

Here you die when you WIN.

Notice the issue?

Would you like it instead if Liches were made insanely OP to counter the overpowered arsenal we have so that they oneshot our ass every time?

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

You don’t die when you win the fight. You die when you lose the fight.

You down the Lich and attempt to stab them with your Parazon.

You won the fight with the Lich and died after the actual gameplay was won to a cutscene.

It isn't in a players control that they die, no QTE, no second chance, just an automatic death after beating the Lich and making them take a knee.

The player beats the Lich in combat then dies in a cutscene where they have no other option but to die.

I can't explain this any more simply.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Would you like it instead if Liches were made insanely OP to counter the overpowered arsenal we have so that they oneshot our ass every time?

Honestly? Yes.

I'd rather die to the actual fight than a cutscene, because that would make it MY FAULT.

Not just an automatic death because the game says so.

[Brey223]

I put together a set of parazon mods to kill my lich. I bring my immortal lich down and attempt to stop the health regen. The mods don’t line up and the lich bane back breakers me. I lost.