Ash 4th skill need some love

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

Ash is a fun stealth warframe to play and I have been a fan of it since the first time I started playing this game. I agreed that the 4th skill before the change is OP, but after the change to Ash, the 4th skill is practically useless in most situations, and finishing enemies in one hit with the 3rd is fun but NOT ALWAYS viable, and it is a slow killing method. On the other hand, Ember 4th skill rework is pretty decent recently, I enjoying it sooo much. Which make me thinking, can we have the "in-sight targeting system" for Ash 4th ability as well? Targeting enemies one by one is not a good idea, since Mesa and even Ember in the same team can do the killing with one click, making Ash very lack luster. By use the same targeting as Ember, Ash maybe more enjoyable, more uses, and not OP like the old Ash which nuke the whole room through many walls 

[BasKy]

Bladestorm is Ash's best ability right now. Teleport seems the one useless (because Bladestorm exists, dealing more damage, faster, cheaper, you can keep killing or moving, you are not defenseless in a finisher move).
It's a cheap ability that deals TONS of damage. Making it even faster would make it a nuke, wich I am heavily against.
Targeting enemies one by one can be a good idea. Sometimes I want to kill one Ancient/bombard without using all my energy.

At what level are you using Ash and what frames are your squadmates using?

[ES-Flinter]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Bladestorm is Ash's best ability right now. Teleport seems the one useless (because Bladestorm exists, dealing more damage, faster, cheaper, you can keep killing or moving, you are not defenseless in a finisher move).

me: using bladestorm as a CC on a group of enemies to go sure, that I won't be attacked while I'm using my rocket launcher.

And the problem isn't only Bladestorm. Ash needs a complete rework. Why? Let me ask you first, do you want a list, or a text?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@Gehemnis_SchwarI do agree that Ash`s bs need to be improved, if I were to improve it here is what I would do;

Bladestorm

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

 

Simple solution no pointless marking, no invulnerable enemies, quick activation and a better choice of sending clones or having fun jumping into the animation. How I see it, this is what DE should have done.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 hours ago, BasKy said:

Bladestorm is Ash's best ability right now.

This.

Blade Storm lets you kill groups of enemies while you're doing (or killing) other things and cheaper than anything else, especially while invisible.

The ability that needs the most work in his kit is Shuriken, which is now obsolete thanks to his far cheaper, far stronger Blade Storm marks.

[Xzorn]

Blade Storm is hardly useless it's just far more useful to a melee Ash due to the way the targeting works.

I made a proposed change on targeting a while back when this came up... cuz it does a lot.

The Blue Line represents an Enemy targeting box over distance.

You can tell from the current version the further an enemy is from you the more precisely you have to aim. I proposed a small addition of allowing Power Range to affect targeting while maintaining the base spectrum ratio over distance. At base 100% Range the targeting box compared to targeting area remains the same but can be increased with additional Power Range for non-melee Ash builds or those who just want to use it from further distances more effectively.

[BasKy]

hace 18 horas, ES-Flinter dijo:

me: using bladestorm as a CC on a group of enemies to go sure, that I won't be attacked while I'm using my rocket launcher.

And the problem isn't only Bladestorm. Ash needs a complete rework. Why? Let me ask you first, do you want a list, or a text?

Sorry I don't know if you are joking or being sarcastic. What rocket launcher? You use Bladestorm as CC? Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to tell me but I suspect you don't agree with my statement.

I guess you can make a list if you really want to tell us

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

On 2019-11-26 at 11:55 AM, BasKy said:

It's a cheap ability that deals TONS of damage

@BasKy I agree with this, I didn't say the skill is weak, it just not as competitive as other waframes 4th skill because the targeting system is way slower than, for example: mesa 4th, current ember 4th,...etc

Secondly

On 2019-11-26 at 11:55 AM, BasKy said:

Targeting enemies one by one can be a good idea. Sometimes I want to kill one Ancient/bombard without using all my energy.

This is what Ash 3rd skill meant to be, single target, also refund energy, almost one shot everything (except for those we cannot finisher on). If we alrd got our 3rd skill for that purpose, then why need another one? Also 3 marks of the 4th skill cannot compare dmg with one click 3rd in some situations (I know it will bleed for tons of dmg later, but still slower than 3rd one-hit)

My idea is, the "in-sight targeting system" of ember 4th is a good thing for Ash to have also, u can hit what u see, unlike the old version of Ash nuke the whole zone. I dont want Ash to nuke the whole room cos it is OP, but targeting things in your sight, just like Ember, is a much more convenient way, rather than, targeting one by one, mean while Mesa in the same team keep killing them up while we still targeting. Ash also got a limited number of marks, so i don't think the change will make him nuke, it just more convenient. And it fits Ash ninja theme too 

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Blade Storm is hardly useless it's just far more useful to a melee Ash due to the way the targeting works.

@Xzorn Yeah I know it good to stack up combo multiplier, and I was sarcastic to said it useless. What I really mean is, it just a bit clunky to use, a bit out-dated skill that need some improvement. Also melee counter is easier to gain now, things change everyday, so - a lil' improvement - why not? 

[Hypernaut1]

Plenty of nuke frames to choose from. 

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Plenty of nuke frames to choose from. 

But I like Ash, and this topic talking abt Ash  It's not abt picking another warframe here, it is abt giving some update to the outdated frame.

=> Also, I don't demand nuke skill, since there are many frame for that. I just need a tweak to the 4th skill, to make Ash life better 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Gehemnis_Schwar

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

13 minutes ago, Gehemnis_Schwar said:

I just need a tweak to the 4th skill, to make Ash life better 

The only things it could really use is a circular targeting reticle like Mesa, and the ability to hold the button to triple mark all marked targets.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Sorry I don't know if you are joking or being sarcastic. What rocket launcher? You use Bladestorm as CC? Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to tell me but I suspect you don't agree with my statement.

A bit of both. But let me explain.^^

About the part with Bladestorm as CC ability and rocket launcher. The enemies attacks the clones of Bladestorm. And because the attack animation is so slow you can literally stay invisible in a corner and attack them with a rocket launcher. The main priority of the enemies is in the most times targets they can see. Listening from where you are shooting is in the most times just second priority. ^^

And I'm whether against or for your statement. I want a complete rework of ash. This would also involve a change of his current Bladestorm.😉😉😉

vor 10 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

I guess you can make a list if you really want to tell us

Sorry for bad formatting. It's not possible to make a list, while you use your phone.

• Overall
• Ash is Solo frame, but Warframe is a coop game. He should at least be able to help his team a bit. And that without bandaid augments
• His stats.
• Ash is able to become invisible. Normally he doesn't need to worry about bullets or something, except the player makes a stupid mistake (like running before an Ironskin-Rhino). Why does he have a bigger ehp than Excalibur? (And his primed Version beat Excalibur Umbra)
• Ash is a Ninja/ Assassin, but he is slower than a clown.
• Very low energy compared to other frames, who can become invisible.
• Shuriken
• The accuracy of the shuriken is as worse as the accuracy of kubrow/ kavat.
• Augment seeking shuriken: good on paper, good on the battlefield. But his passive tells you to ignore the enemy armor, so in the end it becomes useless.
• Smokescreen
• Stun duration is to low
• The ability does something different than what someone would expect from it name. A tiny cloud which reduce the enemy LoS should be at least possible.
• Augment smoke shadow: It's a bandaid to give ash at least an ability to help his team. It should be standard of it. Especially, because it's the ability with the shortest invisibility duration.
• Teleport
• Buggy. Teleportation to a target, where not even the half it's body is behind a wall are in the most times not possible.
• Augment is needed to have a safe chance to inflict a stealth attack.
• He needs a target for teleportation. All other teleportation abilities (except Lokis switch teleport, because he switch the position with someone) doesn't need a target.
• His front flip after the teleportation is slow enough, that even an „Arcane Thrak-helmet Rhino with a bounded dragon key" is faster.
• Augment Fatal teleport: The 300% extra damage is neat. But the main reason why it's used is that it fix his teleportation.
• Bladestorm
• To slow marking to be helpful for his team.
• To slow ananimation. Killing the target with a normal weapon is in the most time faster.
• To inaccurate to kill the problematic enemies.
• The hell for player who use a controller.
• Nekros isn't happy, if he can't desecrate dead enemies.
• You can only see how much marking you have given. But 30 Mark's can be 10 enemies where each one have three marks, or 30 enemies where everyone has just one mark.
• The clones looks sometime like (pink) holographic clones and sometimes just like the user.
• Augment Rising storm: sounds good on paper. But in the end it's unneeded, because on normal mission you don't need a high combo-multipler. And on endless mission you have at least 20min before the enemies stops to being one hitted.

Btw. english isn't my native language. So if there's something still not understandable (or just completely wrong) please tell me. I can only learn from mistakes.

Edited November 27, 2019 by ES-Flinter

[BasKy]

People compare Ash's Bladestorm with Peacemaker as if Bladestorm was the problem and not Peacemaker. I don't find it fun when Mesa gets all the kills, simply because the fun part about almost any shooter is killing things. Even playing support frames is useless because Nuke frames don't need support. Ash doesn't have this problem. Mostly.
 

hace 17 horas, Gehemnis_Schwar dijo:

 I agree with this, I didn't say the skill is weak, it just not as competitive as other waframes 4th skill because the targeting system is way slower than, for example: mesa 4th, current ember 4th,...etc

Well you did say it was useless, hardly seemed sarcastic. If it was up to me (hold your hats, unpopular opinion incoming), all nukes would be nerfed to the ground. I would not change the way Peacemaker works, but I would nerf the energy cost per second and rate of fire. Saryn would be damage over time (nerf 4th damage, maybe buff duration). That's my opinion, I don't like playing in god mode and I like it even less when others are playing god mode and I do nothing.

 

hace 17 horas, Gehemnis_Schwar dijo:

This is what Ash 3rd skill meant to be, single target, also refund energy, almost one shot everything (except for those we cannot finisher on). If we alrd got our 3rd skill for that purpose, then why need another one? Also 3 marks of the 4th skill cannot compare dmg with one click 3rd in some situations (I know it will bleed for tons of dmg later, but still slower than 3rd one-hit)

True! Frames shouldn't have a skill that completely replaces another, that's why teleport needs a change.

It doesn't refund energy as you claim and it doesn not deal more damage than Bs. My opinion is, make teleport a mobility skill. No target needed.

 

 

hace 9 horas, ES-Flinter dijo:

Very low energy compared to other frames, who can become invisible

Those frames can't use rage. I use Ash without Flow and I don't need more energy.
 

hace 9 horas, ES-Flinter dijo:

because it's the ability with the shortest invisibility duration.

Other frames with invisibility are like paper. Of course they need to be invisible more. How could Ash have Loki's invisibility with the same duration? You think it would be fair for Loki? You want Ash to give stealth to his whole team? Ivara needs a second skill for that, it's not fair.
Smoke Screen complements Ash in a good way, but it should not last as much as Loki's.

 

hace 9 horas, ES-Flinter dijo:

Teleport

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they fix the buggines of Teleport by binding the finisher to a different key?
Anyway I agree, Teleport without target sounds nice. It needs a change, hopefully without removing the actual teleport.

 

hace 9 horas, ES-Flinter dijo:

• Bladestorm

Is not a nuke. Ash is DPS, a good frame that kills. It's not my choice for solo defense missions. I don't like it when one Warframe can do everything.

[Crousere]

They should add more clones to his 4. From 2 to 4. Then add stacking bleed procs to his 1. Voila, Ash is even more amazing than he already is with better scaling skills.

 

The bigger issue is how his 1 with Seeking Shuriken is bugged: it doesnt always strip armor from certain units. Like grineer carrying the power cells in excavation missions.

Also his 3 is bugged: sometimes when Ash teleports to his enemy, the enemy is behind him. Sometimes the target doesnt react at all (ie. isnt open for finishers) and just walks/runs away like nothing happened.

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

4 hours ago, BasKy said:

It doesn't refund energy as you claim and it doesn not deal more damage than Bs.

@BasKy did u even try out the augment for 3rd skill? the 3rd skill augment will refund energy when u kill the enemy, and it also multiple the damage on finisher attack after u blink in (scale by your power strength), and it also automatically finisher the enemy u blink to. 3rd skill can also teleport u to an ally, without the swapping their current location like troll god loki does. If u wanna test it out with me I'm always ready for that ;)

Edited November 28, 2019 by Gehemnis_Schwar

[ES-Flinter]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Gehemnis_Schwar:

@BasKy did u even try out the augment for 3rd skill? the 3rd skill augment will refund energy when u kill the enemy, and it also multiple the damage on finisher attack after u blink in (scale by your power strength), and it also automatically finisher the enemy u blink to. 3rd skill can also teleport u to an ally, without the swapping their current location like troll god loki does. If u wanna test it out with me I'm always ready for that 😉

I think he was talking about the ability without the augment  But even if...

vor 15 Stunden schrieb ES-Flinter:

His front flip after the teleportation is slow enough, that even an „Arcane Thrak-helmet Rhino with a bounded dragon key" is faster.
• Augment Fatal teleport: The 300% extra damage is neat. But the main reason why it's used is that it fix his teleportation.

We also have unlimited energy. The augment is just a bandaid.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Those frames can't use rage. I use Ash without Flow and I don't need more energy.

About which enemy level are you talking? Sortie Level? On that level even Loki can use rage-mods without risking his life. And higher level ~150 is even for ash to risky to use it. And let's not forget that his second ability let's you avoid theoretically any damage.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

How could Ash have Loki's invisibility with the same duration? You think it would be fair for Loki? You want Ash to give stealth to his whole team? Ivara needs a second skill for that, it's not fair.

But it's fair that a frame have to use the same amount of energy, but for less duration?

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Other frames with invisibility are like paper. Of course they need to be invisible more.

- snip -

Smoke Screen complements Ash in a good way, but it should not last as much as Loki's.

In which good way? If you can go invisible, why do you need a ton of health? And if you have a ton of health you don't need invisibility. You need only a high amount of health, if you do a mistake, while being invisible. But an experience player can easily avoid any damage, if he is invisible. So the only player left who needs a invisble-tank-hybrids are starter's.

And do you want that ash is just a frame for newbies? I don't. Because I know that Ash has a much much higher potential. 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they fix the buggines of Teleport by binding the finisher to a different key?

Would be new to me. Maybe I will test it on Friday, if I don't forget it.^^ 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BasKy:

Is not a nuke. Ash is DPS, a good frame that kills. It's not my choice for solo defense missions. I don't like it when one Warframe can do everything.

Actually I never calculated it, but isn't the dps of Mesas peacemaker higher than from ash Bladestorm?🤔🤔🤔

And I don't want Ash to be a nuker. Only under special conditions. Until now I'm not done with the translation, but I wanted to post a concept of Ash, where he uses the amount of inflicted slash procs as a second energy resource. Bladestorm becomes a part of his third skill and his new forth skill becomes an exilus weapon, which can have a melee range of 15m if you pay 40 slashpoints/s. Just think about how high the enemy has to be, until it becomes broken. 😂🤣😂

Edited November 28, 2019 by ES-Flinter

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

And I don't want Ash to be a nuker.

This! I just need them to fix the way his 4th targeting.

 

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

I think he was talking about the ability without the augment

I think he dun even know that augment existence since he called the skill trash from beginning.

 

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

We also have unlimited energy. The augment is just a bandaid.

I'm talking abt energy refunding because I want to state out that using his 3rd skill to kill a high-rank target in one hit then get half energy refund back is still more efficient than 3 Marks in INVISIBLE state (which is also lower dmg, and still need to wait the target bleed til ded)

Edited November 28, 2019 by Gehemnis_Schwar

[BasKy]

hace 2 horas, Gehemnis_Schwar dijo:

did u even try out the augment for 3rd skill?

hace 39 minutos, Gehemnis_Schwar dijo:

I think he dun even know that augment existence since he called the skill trash from beginning.

I knew exactly you were talking about the augment. You claimed teleport refunded energy wich is false. You need an extra mod for that and I like my mod slots when they are not occupied by bandaid mods. ;);)););););;

Trash? I said it's useless because Bladestorm exists.

I can see we will never agree guys. I'll finish this up by saying that Ash does a very good work at a 45m Arbitration/Sortie lvl3. To keep going after that is overkill, and your own problem. Bye have fun

Edited November 28, 2019 by BasKy

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Ok let’s look at the old bs problems vs the current bs problems;

 

Old bs problems:

 

· In high-level missions, If Ash used bs, he would be stuck in the animation for a long time if there was an ancient healer around.

 

· Enemies that are red could not be killed by allies unless they had exalted weapons e.g. Excalibur and Valkyr.

 

· You could not skip the animation making it to where he couldn`t revive allies and protect pods/npcs in missions.

 

All of these combined made him a problem in missions where you have to kill the enemies to progress and to the team, even so, he was usable for the most part, efficient at killing and most importantly… he was fun to use.

 

Current bs problems:

 

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       You can`t pick an choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

 

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

 

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

 

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

 

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

 

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

As you can see, the old problems with bs are nothing compared to the problems we have with bs now which means the old bs is by far more superior when it comes to the activation speed, damage and most importantly fun. Even with the old bs problems at least he had the ability to help the team by killing enemies off to progress through the mission plus (in high levels) if enemies are dead your teammates will stay alive slot longer.

 

With bs now, he is even more useless in a team and is taking up space for a more useful waframe to join the team. Despite all of these points the biggest problem with his bs IS THE MARKING MECHANICS. People say that he is in a good place but he`s not, the only times he is good is playing him solo, in high-level missions and in missions where there are no killing warframes and even then, guns do it better. The majority of people (including new players) play low to mid-level missions and Ash`s bs mechanics doesn’t work there. Ash is pushed to be more used for playing solo instead of being in a team which is a problem considering since warframe pushes players to be a part of a team.

At the time ash was ranked the number one favourited warframe by votes on Mogamu`s channel in 2016. Now he is one of the least used warframe stated by DE themselves on life of rio`s video in 2018.

[Aldain]

Just give it a small cone for more agile targeting.

That is ALL that it needs.

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

On 2019-12-02 at 8:54 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

  The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

So true!!!! This is what im trying to say, the skill is not weak, it just slow, inconvenient to mark and kill, while our allies can kill them way faster. If it is a solo game, then Ash work normal, but a public, or gaming with your friend, the Ash IS SUPER SLOW.

On 2019-12-02 at 9:01 PM, Aldain said:

Just give it a small cone for more agile targeting.

Yes this will also do. If ya guy saying in-sight marking system is OP, then a cone for marking is also welcome, just anything make it faster is welcome. pin-point-marking with the aim point is suck, especially in dark tilset, which we need to see them to mark, while a cone like mesa help very much in the marking stuffs

[(PSN)Vexx757]

9 hours ago, Gehemnis_Schwar said:

So true!!!! This is what im trying to say, the skill is not weak, it just slow, inconvenient to mark and kill, while our allies can kill them way faster. If it is a solo game, then Ash work normal, but a public, or gaming with your friend, the Ash IS SUPER SLOW.

That's why I say that Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game... PLAY AS A TEAM, Ash dose not have an ability that helps the team which makes him useless in a team. So when ppl say that his bs is good I think they are stupid but that's just my opinion. I have some solutions to revamp his whole kit tell me what you think.

Spoiler

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on a zipline.

 

1st Ability:

·       If enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       Depending on how much combo multi you have will determine how much damage it will do.

 

2nd Ability:

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       Smoke cloud`s radius can be increased by range mods.

·       The stun and the smoke damage buff will also work on bosses.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

 

3rd Ability:

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies or objects with a health bar or is scannable on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

 

4th Ability:

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the clones` attacks by 20%.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

 

Synergies

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you.

·       Using you 1st, 3rd and 4th abilities on the smoke victim will increase the damage dealt to the enemy.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

 Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay over time instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

 

Fixes:

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

11

 

[Gehemnis_Schwar]

On 2019-12-04 at 8:29 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I have some solutions to revamp his whole kit tell me what you think.

You got good idea, but to prevent Ash become OP:

1st Skill:

+ Stealth kill? Yes.
+ Scale on melee combo? No, since it has nothing to do with melee here, just like throwing 2 bigger version of a hikou.
+ Slow enemies? Maybe, interesting idea, but should be replacing the 1st augment, bcos current armor stripping is not much useful compare to those armor melting god frames, and the current augment make the skill similar to Nyx, less bolt but higher dmg version.

2nd Skill:

+ Longer stun? Maybe, I see no harm in this
+ Smoke left behind? Interesting.
+ Longer stun in smoke? Nah, should be the same. and if smoke left behind idea i would combine it with blind rather than stun.
+ Higher dmg in smoke and effective on bosses? Definitly no, way too OP.

3rd skill:

+ Ability to teleport without target? Yes this maybe cool and useful
+ Teleport to alies? It alrd in game, also I believe u can teleport through glass as long as u see the enemy and there are enough space next to them.
+ Mid air stuffs? No, again, too OP.

4th Skill:

+ Instance activate? Well, I don't need it to change this much. A cone for faster marking, or mark things in-sight is enough.
+ Jump in and out animation freely? Absolutely yes.
+ Enemies that are red can be killed by players? Maybe, or maybe not. I think it will stress the system. Marked enemies which is killed b4 skill activate will refund energy. By not allow allies kill those marked mid animation, the energy cost is fixed the moment u activate the skill. If not, the game system must be caculating how many enemies left and how much energy to refund all the time during animation.
+ An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs? Yes, why not?
+ Sliding before activating will increase the clones` attacks by 20%? No, dmg is high enough. if more then it is OP.

P/S: Sorry for late reply kinda busy 

[EinheriarJudith]

On 2019-11-27 at 7:34 PM, BasKy said:

~snip~

Preach! DE made Peacemaker even more hilariously broken with the change to heat damage. Viral/Heal regulator is stupidly broken.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2019-12-07 at 5:30 PM, Gehemnis_Schwar said:

-snip-

My reply

1st Skill:

Stealth kill Killing enemies in one his is something you can do so it should count.

+ Scale on melee combo? That's just one option, another option could be to have the combo counter like ember, atlas and Valkyr.

+ Slow enemies? imo his augment should be like nyx`s 2nd ability to be more useful.

 

2nd Skill:

+ Longer stun? This gives him better cc.
+ Smoke left behind This is how smoke screen should work.

+ Longer stun in smoke? You say it should stay that same but nothing happens to enemies when they are in the smoke at least with this, you can choose to stun a dangerous enemy for longer and gives you time to either kill it or escape.

+ Higher dmg in smoke and effective on bosses? Ok I agree that on bosses is a bit much however the smoke making enemies weaker to damage is not of for the fact that you can`t do it consistently, you have to wait for the duration to run out before you can do it again.

 

3rd skill:

+ Ability to teleport without target This will make him more useful in stealth situations.

+ Teleport through windows unfortunately you can`t that's why I suggested it. Teleporting is based on sight and memory so he should be able to do that.
+ Mid air stuffs? its not op for the fact that garuda can reach enemies that are in the air plus you can stay in the aur with the recent changes to melee, he just stays in the air longer.

 

4th Skill:

+ Instance activate? A radius is much better than a cone imo.

Jump in and out animation freely This is usefull. If your teammate or companion is down, you can revive them.

+ Enemies that are red can be killed by players? It won`t stress the system when the ability starts they are not invulnerable like the old bs, while your killing allies can kill them also.
+ An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs? This make it to where if you decide to send the clones off to kill, you can identify how many enemies are left and when you can use bs again.
+ Sliding before activating will increase the clones` attacks by 20%? To be specific it increases the speed of when you are in the animation not when you send your clones out beside you were able to do this before but that was a bug.