Kuva Lich is a Legitmate Nuisance

[Chewarette]

11 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Besides, farming murmur is rather quick. A total of 3 hours should be way more than enough, or are you suggesting you couldn't play more than 3 hours per month particularly for a lich?

Well, that's also 3 hours doing Liches-exclusive content, where you don't gain anything else. If the player has to (or wants to) complete other parts of the game - prime farming, Railjack, nodes unlock, arbitrations, kuva farm, Index or resource farming, then Kuva Liches are pretty annoying. The fact Kuva Liches are in their own microcosm makes them annoying. For example, you can farm Primes stuff while also getting specific resources (ie Prime Farm on a Void node might grant you some Argon or Vor mods if you need them).

If you're running a Kuva Lich node... You're only here for the Kuva Lich.

[--K--Sharkfin]

7 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Well, that's also 3 hours doing Liches-exclusive content, where you don't gain anything else. If the player has to (or wants to) complete other parts of the game - prime farming, Railjack, nodes unlock, arbitrations, kuva farm, Index or resource farming, then Kuva Liches are pretty annoying. The fact Kuva Liches are in their own microcosm makes them annoying. For example, you can farm Primes stuff while also getting specific resources (ie Prime Farm on a Void node might grant you some Argon or Vor mods if you need them).

If you're running a Kuva Lich node... You're only here for the Kuva Lich.

then RJ should be even worse if you consider doing something in a microcosm. At least for me I got quite a sum of rare resources like orokin cells while farming murmur on Cere and Saturn, not to mention other grineer resources.

Speaking of which, DE should allow us to turn in useless relics into traces, and req relics into kuva.

We should also be rewarded with a decent amount of kuva after dealing with a lich

Edited January 22, 2020 by SHArK-FiN

[Test-995]

4 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

We should also be rewarded with a decent amount of kuva after dealing with a lich

They won't, for stupid reasons like "kuva survivals and kuva siphons/floods are the intended way to gather kuva".

[Chewarette]

47 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

then RJ should be even worse if you consider doing something in a microcosm.

It is. 

I despise this kind of updates, where nothing you do there matter elsewhere and vice-versa. Feeling like you have to abandon one entire part of the game to dedicate yourself to something else. I'd largely prefer if Kuva Liches and Thralls could spawn in all starchart nodes without being specific missions, so that you can really do whatever you want.

Railjack is another problem, it's probably planned to be used somewhere else connected to the Starchart, but it's just v0.1, I guess we'll see in 25 years when it's complete.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

11 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

The fact that you took that long to kill one lich shouldn't blame on your real life, as if all of the other players who are killing liches have no life. You need to note that in Warframe, there is large difficulty barrier between having the right and wrong build. Just like using toxin and radiation on infested and flame the ancient healer for being too hard to kill. I am pretty sure the weapon/frame you were using to kill the lich with was either immuned/resisted by the lich at rank5. You could always check which elements the lich is resisting.

Besides, farming murmur is rather quick. A total of 3 hours should be way more than enough, or are you suggesting you couldn't play more than 3hours in a month particularly for a lich?

Anyway, DE mentioned that they don't have any plan on the lich system yet, one of the reasons they have tons of other plans to tend to, but they know people are frustrated about it.

I'm not a fool, for one I know what build to use for certain enemy levels. However, I was NOT aware of liches until I magically got one through a bug.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

I'm going to put my whole point across here, kuva liches are a waste of time, buggy, annoying, and not even worth it.

I did NOT intend on getting a lich when I came back to this game. I had absolutely no knowledge of liches when I came back to the game at the end of December.

DE has very VAGUE descriptions when it comes to how to defeat a lich. There are no actual instructions or way to go about it.

I did not ask for it nor did I even want to deal with it. But, I dealt with it because it was getting annoying losing valuable resources on important planets.

I don't just play Warframe. And I won't sit here and continue to play through tedious and repetitive missions just to get rid of a single lich.

Even so, I got NOTHING from said lich. No emphemera, no cosmetic item. And I was not aware that in order to get the weapon your lich has you have to kill them and not spare them.

I think some of you fail to grasp what I've been trying to say.

I personally do not like the way this system is set up and am disappointed that this is what DE thinks would be fair enough endgame. It's not. It's ridiculous. 

But that's just my opinion on it. We can agree to disagree.

Edited January 22, 2020 by (XB1)AnnabelleNewell

[Steeldragonz]

3 hours ago, Mikaer88 said:

This is just...sad

Exactly why Im not going to take part in the system. At this point literally just doing them for 1 item that is a cosmetic seems insane

[KnightCole]

And then as if the Kuva Lichs needed any more reason to know they are annoying, they steal mission loot to boot.  Sure, sure, not alot, but its still stealin ur stuff.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

9 hours ago, Steeldragonz said:

Exactly why Im not going to take part in the system. At this point literally just doing them for 1 item that is a cosmetic seems insane

Hell it isn't even the cosmetic, it's the weapons too. And most of the weapons are terrible.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2020-01-21 at 3:19 AM, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

It took me a month to even get the correct code for the lich I have to deal with.

A MONTH (only because I have an actual life outside of this game).

I stated it took me a month, I never implied that it generally takes this long. Is that a problem on my end? No. Because my life is not revolved around warframe, I don't understand why I have to repeat myself to people who blatantly don't want to listen or read thouroughly.

[SenorClipClop]

Kuva Liches need an overhaul.

• Once you have one, they are far too opt-in (across the entire experience) as an enemy because you can completely ignore them. Even on the off-chance your node for a mission is Lich-taxed, you can eventually get that reward anyway. The Lich doesn't pose enough enmity for those who opt into the system in the first place.
• Liches run as the opposite of what Liches are in other canon (namely DnD), and opposite to what they were previously shown to be in previews. Instead of them dying but coming back to life over and over, they only die once, when you kill them for good at the end of the process. Otherwise they are unkillable.
• Liches force you to fail no matter how well you play the game. This is just poor design iteration. The player can do everything in their power to be successful and still have only a 12.5% chance not to get an instant death handed to them by virtue of "this system just makes you fail".

Suggestions to improve this system:

• Once you have a Lich, you don't know where they are until they appear in a mission to mess with you. Then the node (and perhaps the planet) reveals Lich control. It's fine to let Liches pop into missions populate with squadmates that haven't unlocked Liches yet. To them it'll just be another Grustrag Three instance.
• Let us kill our Lich to have them resurrect later, like the preview showed us. Have a Parazon jab remove the Lich for a short time, mix up its controlled nodes. Then have it come back later, stronger.
• Don't force a death on us to make the Lich seem powerful. It doesn't work, because we know we're only dying because our death is scripted. Forced mechanics don't suspend our disbelief. If the need is felt to keep the Bane vs. Batman aesthetic, at least don't auto-kill us with it. Just put us in a weakened state perhaps -- half Health, no Energy, Mods not applying, something that still lets us acquire victory via use of our in-game skills and familiarity. ("Okay, no abilities, but I can still dodge and kite to win this fight.") Consider taking a page from Transistor, where failing burns out one of your powers for a time, forcing you change up your approach in order to succeed. Players are overpowered in Warframe, it's abundantly clear, but please give a route where victory is possible after we've been weakened, instead of just a succeed/fail binary.

Edited January 22, 2020 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

12 hours ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

Ok first off I'm not going to sit here and argue again on forums. I came to voice my opinion on the lich system.

Secondly, I play on console, not pc. This game is laggy and I sometimes cannot catch certain things right away. I'm sorry that I didn't realize my lich spawned halfway across the map in a whole different area JUST as I'm getting into said mission.

Thirdly, my life isn't revolved around warframe and it never will be. I'm not going to sit here and aggravate myself because of a broken game mechanic. If you're that self righteous about this game, you need to get over yourself.

Like I said, I'm not here to argue, I literally voiced my opinion and you chose to berate because of what I said.

You seem to have taken my comment as a personal attack on you... not the case.

I play on console too - no lag - and I've never not known my lich spawned after the game gave me 3 cues to let me know.  No matter where on the map it spawns... you still get:
1. Icon
2. Message
3. Health Bar

There's no excuse to miss all 3 cues except a lack of paying attention.  I'm sorry if that insults you - but I'm pretty nobody else has a hard time noticing the 3 cues they're given, especially the big health bar that stays in your face as long as the lich is out.  

Never said your life should revolve around Warframe... a 2 hour investment isn't that huge, you're making it seem like it takes weeks... it doesn't.  I also wouldn't expect you to sit there and keep doing it if you're having a bad time - why would anybody expect that?  If you don't think it's worth 2 hours of time, just don't do it?  In the grand scheme of Warframe, 2 hours is a drop in the bucket - especially considering you get a pre-built gun, bypassing any resources and 12-24 hour wait times other guns have.  It's a tradeoff.  You put a little more time in getting it, you don't have to spend resources or wait once you do.  2 hours for a gun is VERY fair in this game.

There's nothing self righteous about my comment - just explaining to you that your issues derive from you, not the game.  Simple.  There are very real problems with the Lich system that the community in general has - but none of them line up with your complaints because these are self-made problems, and not problems with the actual Lich system..

You can't just come on the forums, post your thoughts and somehow not expect people to respond to your thoughts.  I didn't berate you either, you just took it that way because the simple concept that these problems are generated from yourself, versus the game, is somehow insulting to you - when the way I see it, it's just a fact of reality.  It wasn't meant to be insulting.  An argument or disagreement isn't an insulting thing.  Maybe if I had come in here all "l2p, git gud scrub" you could make that claim - but sorry, telling you that you are the source of your own grievances isn't an insult, just a basic observation.      

Edited January 22, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Kuva Liches need an overhaul.

• Once you have one, they are far too opt-in (across the entire experience) as an enemy because you can completely ignore them. Even on the off-chance your node for a mission is Lich-taxed, you can eventually get that reward anyway. The Lich doesn't pose enough enmity for those who opt into the system in the first place.
• Liches run as the opposite of what Liches are in other canon (namely DnD), and opposite to what they were previously shown to be in previews. Instead of them dying but coming back to life over and over, they only die once, when you kill them for good at the end of the process. Otherwise they are unkillable.
• Liches force you to fail no matter how well you play the game. This is just poor design iteration. The player can do everything in their power to be successful and still have only a 12.5% chance not to get an instant death handed to them by virtue of "this system just makes you fail".

Suggestions to improve this system:

• Once you have a Lich, you don't know where they are until they appear in a mission to mess with you. Then the node (and perhaps the planet) reveals Lich control. It's fine to let Liches pop into missions populate with squadmates that haven't unlocked Liches yet. To them it'll just be another Grustrag Three instance.
• Let us kill our Lich to have them resurrect later, like the preview showed us. Have a Parazon jab remove the Lich for a short time, mix up its controlled nodes. Then have it come back later, stronger.
• Don't force a death on us to make the Lich seem powerful. It doesn't work, because we know we're only dying because our death is scripted. Forced mechanics don't suspend our disbelief. If the need is felt to keep the Bane vs. Batman aesthetic, at least don't auto-kill us with it. Just put us in a weakened state perhaps -- half Health, no Energy, Mods not applying, something that still lets us acquire victory via use of our in-game skills and familiarity. ("Okay, no abilities, but I can still dodge and kite to win this fight.") Consider taking a page from Transistor, where failing burns out one of your powers for a time, forcing you change up your approach in order to succeed. Players are overpowered in Warframe, it's abundantly clear, but please give a route where victory is possible after we've been weakened, instead of just a succeed/fail binary.

This is what I wanted to discuss.

I completely agree with most of the things you stated for changes. It's just not worth getting a lich when the whole thing is set up to aggravate a player.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

You seem to have taken my comment as a personal attack on you... not the case.

I play on console too - no lag - and I've never not known my lich spawned after the game gave me 3 cues to let me know.  No matter where on the map it spawns... you still get:
1. Icon
2. Message
3. Health Bar

There's no excuse to miss all 3 cues except a lack of paying attention.  I'm sorry if that insults you - but I'm pretty nobody else has a hard time noticing the 3 cues they're given, especially the big health bar that stays in your face as long as the lich is out.  

Never said your life should revolve around Warframe... a 2 hour investment isn't that huge, you're making it seem like it takes weeks... it doesn't.  I also wouldn't expect you to sit there and keep doing it if you're having a bad time - why would anybody expect that?  If you don't think it's worth 2 hours of time, just don't do it?  In the grand scheme of Warframe, 2 hours is a drop in the bucket - especially considering you get a pre-built gun, bypassing any resources and 12-24 hour wait times other guns have.  It's a tradeoff.  You put a little more time in getting it, you don't have to spend resources or wait once you do.  2 hours for a gun is VERY fair in this game.

There's nothing self righteous about my comment - just explaining to you that your issues derive from you, not the game.  Simple.  There are very real problems with the Lich system that the community in general has - but none of them line up with your complaints because these are self-made problems, and not problems with the actual Lich system..

You can't just come on the forums, post your thoughts and somehow not expect people to respond to your thoughts.  I didn't berate you either, you just took it that way because the simple concept that these problems are generated from yourself, versus the game, is somehow insulting to you - when the way I see it, it's just a fact of reality.  It wasn't meant to be insulting.  An argument or disagreement isn't an insulting thing.  Maybe if I had come in here all "l2p, git gud scrub" you could make that claim - but sorry, telling you that you are the source of your own grievances isn't an insult, just a basic observation.      

You keep repeating the same nonsense over and over.

I encountered a bug.

That doesn't mean I should be told I'm constantly wrong when I encountered a bug.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

You keep repeating the same nonsense over and over.

I encountered a bug.

That doesn't mean I should be told I'm constantly wrong when I encountered a bug.

You didn't mention a bug in your post to me.  Not a single time.  I also don't know where you get the idea that I'm saying you're "wrong" ... this isn't a discussion about who's right and wrong... seems to me you just don't like being told things you don't want to hear... 

just reading your other posts there's still no clear indication what this bug even is or what it affected... just rambling... 

Did the bug make you fight a level 5 lich?  Did it make you not know when the lich spawned?  Did it make 2 hours too long?  Nothing you've said indicates a bug at all.  

I think you're stuck on arguing with another guy and attributing your conversation with him to me - because we weren't discussing bugs.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

12 hours ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

I think some of you fail to grasp what I've been trying to say.

I think you've just failed to adequately explain yourself in any capacity.  When everybody else isn't grasping what you're saying, well.... maybe, just maybe the issue is you and how you "explained" it?

Edited January 22, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[Mos-Eisley]

On 2020-01-21 at 1:19 AM, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

Honestly. It is the most time consuming and annoying thing DE has ever added to this game.

Agreed. Been playing Warframe since 2014? 2015? Started just prior to movement 2.0 and I feel this is the worst "content" ever added. (Framefighter & Lunaro were also an utter waste of resources)

The entire system was poorly implemented. 

* The 5 forma weapons are crap. Either they should have been as they are now, but only lvl 30 max, and not requiring the 5 forma. OR with the 5 forma scheme, they should have been quite a bit better than their original counterparts...as one would think befitting of an assassin sent by the queens to personally hunt you down. 

* The opt-in system removed any feeling of a nemesis from the equation. How can I have a Nemesis trying to hunt me down if I have to purposely create it in the first place. Some way to opt-out would have been a better choice. Or better yet IMO would have been neither. Liches were supposed to be high level "content", I would have preferred something that tied them in with Railjack at least. Perhaps the Liches would be tasked with hunting you down after you have killed x number of battalion commanders. That would make sense from an in-game standpoint. 

* The fact that the weapon and ephemera (if there is one) are revealed when you first create a Lich makes if even MORE of a chore...you know right off the bat if you are getting yet another duplicate weapons.

* Progress by failing when stabbing your Lich just feels bad. My mind was boggled when on the last Dev stream Scott said something to the effect that he couldn't understand why players didn't like this. How could you think ANYONE would like it. 

[Mikaer88]

3 hours ago, Mos-Eisley said:

My mind was boggled when on the last Dev stream Scott said something to the effect that he couldn't understand why players didn't like this. How could you think ANYONE would like it.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Mikaer88

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

You didn't mention a bug in your post to me.  Not a single time.  I also don't know where you get the idea that I'm saying you're "wrong" ... this isn't a discussion about who's right and wrong... seems to me you just don't like being told things you don't want to hear... 

just reading your other posts there's still no clear indication what this bug even is or what it affected... just rambling... 

Did the bug make you fight a level 5 lich?  Did it make you not know when the lich spawned?  Did it make 2 hours too long?  Nothing you've said indicates a bug at all.  

I think you're stuck on arguing with another guy and attributing your conversation with him to me - because we weren't discussing bugs.  

Yet I literally brought it up in the forum. Reading comprehension helps y'know. 

[844448]

9 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Kuva Liches need an overhaul.

• Once you have one, they are far too opt-in (across the entire experience) as an enemy because you can completely ignore them. Even on the off-chance your node for a mission is Lich-taxed, you can eventually get that reward anyway. The Lich doesn't pose enough enmity for those who opt into the system in the first place.
• Liches run as the opposite of what Liches are in other canon (namely DnD), and opposite to what they were previously shown to be in previews. Instead of them dying but coming back to life over and over, they only die once, when you kill them for good at the end of the process. Otherwise they are unkillable.
• Liches force you to fail no matter how well you play the game. This is just poor design iteration. The player can do everything in their power to be successful and still have only a 12.5% chance not to get an instant death handed to them by virtue of "this system just makes you fail".

Suggestions to improve this system:

• Once you have a Lich, you don't know where they are until they appear in a mission to mess with you. Then the node (and perhaps the planet) reveals Lich control. It's fine to let Liches pop into missions populate with squadmates that haven't unlocked Liches yet. To them it'll just be another Grustrag Three instance.
• Let us kill our Lich to have them resurrect later, like the preview showed us. Have a Parazon jab remove the Lich for a short time, mix up its controlled nodes. Then have it come back later, stronger.
• Don't force a death on us to make the Lich seem powerful. It doesn't work, because we know we're only dying because our death is scripted. Forced mechanics don't suspend our disbelief. If the need is felt to keep the Bane vs. Batman aesthetic, at least don't auto-kill us with it. Just put us in a weakened state perhaps -- half Health, no Energy, Mods not applying, something that still lets us acquire victory via use of our in-game skills and familiarity. ("Okay, no abilities, but I can still dodge and kite to win this fight.") Consider taking a page from Transistor, where failing burns out one of your powers for a time, forcing you change up your approach in order to succeed. Players are overpowered in Warframe, it's abundantly clear, but please give a route where victory is possible after we've been weakened, instead of just a succeed/fail binary.

Help me tweaking this

 

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

2 hours ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

Yet I literally brought it up in the forum. Reading comprehension helps y'know. 

You didn't mention the word bug ONE SINGLE TIME to me before either of my first 2 comments.  You only mentioned it in response to my second comment...   AFTER everything I originally said.  You didn't even use the word bug in your original post - not even until the second page. 

I'm not sitting here reading your conversations with other people - just ours. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

You didn't mention the word bug ONE SINGLE TIME to me before either of my first 2 comments.  You only mentioned it in response to my second comment...   AFTER everything I originally said.  You didn't even use the word bug in your original post - not even until the second page. 

I'm not sitting here reading your conversations with other people - just ours. 

I don't have to have the word in the OP. It is still mentioned in the thread. Get over yourself or just don't post.

I'm not going to sit here and continue to answer you or argue. That's the last thing I'm going to say to you in regards to the post.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

7 hours ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

I encountered a bug.

Then just put it in the Bug Report forum.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

2 hours ago, (XB1)AnnabelleNewell said:

I don't have to have the word in the OP. It is still mentioned in the thread. Get over yourself or just don't post.

I'm not going to sit here and continue to answer you or argue. That's the last thing I'm going to say to you in regards to the post.

Do you honestly hear yourself?  You're mad at me for not knowing you had a bug in my first 2 posts... when you didn't mention it to me until after I made those posts?   You're the one who needs to get over yourself... 

You've said 10x since page 1 you aren't going to sit here arguing - yet here you are, still arguing.   With a more asinine argument each time you respond at that.  You call everybody toxic, trolls, tell them to get over themselves etc.

This is just a giant projection thread where you accuse everybody else of doing what you're actively doing.  Sad, honestly. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

Do you honestly hear yourself?  You're mad at me for not knowing you had a bug in my first 2 posts... when you didn't mention it to me until after I made those posts?   You're the one who needs to get over yourself... 

You've said 10x since page 1 you aren't going to sit here arguing - yet here you are, still arguing.   With a more asinine argument each time you respond at that.  You call everybody toxic, trolls, tell them to get over themselves etc.

This is just a giant projection thread where you accuse everybody else of doing what you're actively doing.  Sad, honestly. 

Are you done?