Frost Rework Idea

[waterboytkd]

Frost is a great warframe, but he shows his age. His passive and first two abilities (Freeze and Ice Wave) are extremely underwhelming. However, there's some coolness in his augments, so I thought maybe they could get moved into actual abilities. Also, as a tank frame, he is conspicuously missing any form of self-healing. Here's the rework idea:

Passive - Cryogenic

• Whenever Frost applies the Cold status effect to an enemy, he recovers 2% of his maximum health. Whenever Frost freezes an enemy, he recovers 10% of his maximum health.

1 - Snow Globe

• Tap: casts Snow Globe as it currently exists.
• Hold: dispel any of your Snow Globes you are standing in, regaining 25 energy (reduced by Ability Efficiency) for each Snow Globe dispelled.
• Ability Synergy: see Frozen Warrior and Icy Fortitude.
• Augment: unchanged
• Note: the Hold alt cast is to give Frost a way to dispel his globes, which he currently does by shooting his 1 at their exterior.
• Note: this ability is moved to his 1 because, lets be honest, this is the defining ability for Frost. Also, his old 1 and 2 were changed into abilities that will have Synergy with Snow Globe.

2 - Frozen Warrior

• Costs 25 energy. One-handed action. Cast time of 0.5 seconds.
• Imbue Frost's weapons with elemental cold. The weapons deal an additional 15%/20%/25%/30% (affected by Ability Strength) Cold damage (doubled for melee attacks), and have a guaranteed chance to proc a Cold status effect on hit. Lasts for 12/15/17/20 seconds (affected by Ability Duration).
• Ability Synergy: While active, Frozen Warrior's duration is increased by 2 seconds (affected by Ability Duration) for each 1 second Frost stands in a Snow Globe.
• Augment: Freeze Force - Frozen Warrior also affects allies within 30 meters (affected by Ability Range). The allies have this benefit for as long as Frozen Warrior is active on Frost. 
• Note: Current Freeze Force augments are changed to this one. The duration for allies works the same way Warcry works for allies (that is, allies only lose Warcry when Valkyr loses the buff; similarly, allies only lose Freeze Force when Frost loses Frozen Warrior).

3 - Icy Fortitude

• Costs 25 energy. One-handed action. Cast time of 0.5 seconds.
• Frost increases his maximum shields by 100/200/300/400 (affected by Ability Strength), increases shield recharge by 20%/40%/60%/80% (affected by Ability Strength), and, while he has shields or is standing in a Snow Globe, becomes immune to all Status Effects (including Knockdowns and Knockbacks)  for 12/15/17/20 seconds (affected by Ability Duration). 
• Ability Synergy: While active, Icy Fortitude's duration is increased by 2 seconds (affected by Ability Duration) for each 1 second Frost stands in a Snow Globe.
• Augment: Icy Armorer - Icy Fortitude also affects allies within 30 meters (affected by Ability Range). The allies have this benefit for as long as Icy Fortitude is active on Frost.
• Note: old Icy Avalanche augments become the new Icy Armorer augment. The duration for allies works the same way Warcry works for allies (that is, allies only lose Warcry when Valkyr loses the buff; similarly, allies only lose Icy Armorer when Frost loses Icy Fortituded).

4 - Avalanche

• Unchanged.
• Augment: Snowed In - Leaves an icy/snowy area on the ground for 6/8/10/12 seconds that slows enemies by 75% (unaffected by Ability Strength?).
• Note: old Ice Wave Impedance augments become the Snowed In augment. The effect of this is essentially the same, but is created from Avalanche instead, and uses Avalanche's area (really, making it a significant buff for the Ice Wave Impedance augment).

 

That's the idea. His new abilities would not, hopefully, require new animations. Just gotta raise his hand similar to what he does for Avalanche? But the augments for his new abilities allow him to really turn into a team support frame, if desired. The change to the Avalanche augment was needed (because the basic utility of that augment became a whole new ability in Icy Fortitude), so it was changed to really be all-in on the cc.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I agree he could use a modernization rework, but he's not a tank and was never meant to be. He's an area defender that relies on preventing the damage to begin with through cc, armor/shields and Snow Globe.

Healing doesn't make sense for him, but staying on theme I would think it's fitting for him passively reducing bleed procs duration as a "cryogenic" alternative to cauterizing his wounds.

[Tatann]

People seem to forget Icy Avalanche provides a type of "healing": it's additional EHP (from a few hundreds to a few thousands depending on your build and the number of enemies caught). It can't be bypassed by toxic damage (unlike shields/overshields), it has no duration (unlike Chroma's HP boost from his 2), and goes beyond your full HP. It's better than plain healing, even considering it prevents status effects (including knockdown/grab) and applies to allies in range.

The only complain could be the lack of synergy with Adaptation, or armor (both Snowglobe and Iron Skin benefit from armor)

[peterc3]

On 2020-01-21 at 11:54 AM, waterboytkd said:

Passive - Cryogenic

• Whenever Frost applies the Cold status effect to an enemy, he recovers 2% of his maximum health. Whenever Frost freezes an enemy, he recovers 10% of his maximum health.

There's nothing about Frost or his abilities that would ever imply he had the ability to heal. What about inflicting Cold procs would heal him? What says he is a tank other than a simple look at his element?

[waterboytkd]

41 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

There's nothing about Frost or his abilities that would ever imply he had the ability to heal. What about inflicting Cold procs would heal him? What says he is a tank other than a simple look at his element?

Why is he a tank? He has higher than average armor and higher than average shields. His defining ability is defensive, and is a literal barrier from enemy fire. His most popular augment is a "temp health" effect for himself and allies, with status immunity coupled on. I think it would be shorter to answer "What says he isn't a tank?".

As for self-healing in his kit: it's pretty common for tanky warframes to sport some kind of self-healing in their kit. Now, the argument could easily be made he doesn't need it--between Snow Globe and Icy Avalanche, he has all kinds of great damage mitigation, and a simple pizza can make up chip damage he picks up. But in a game that focuses so hard on moving fast, standing around is a "feels-bad" thing. Which is why I thought it could go into his kit (and why I redesigned his 1 & 2 the way I did): to give him a bit more to do in missions that aren't "stand around and guard an objective."

Edited January 22, 2020 by waterboytkd

[WarRelic]

1).Casting his one to dis-spell globes should be energy refunded. It should be free to be curtias.

2).His 2 is weak(ish) even with the augment. I would make the current Augment innate and give the new Augment a chance to drop energy (15%) + more AOE. The ground punch animation could have a roll added during movement and create an ice bridge if used in mid air.   

(Alternatively an Ice trail left on the ground that has the Icewave Impedance effect might be nice for 2)

3).Globe is fine. A damage deflection(15%) could be added to the current augment and the reflected damage used to cause cold procs.

4).I like getting up to 8k+ Ice health(Arbitration bonus) from Icey Avalanche please don't touch, it doesn't stack with armor(not op) and is the only augment worth using currently IMO.

His passive could be a freeze Aura (Exactly like current snowglobe augment at 2-3 meters) and his movement speed could use a small buff. 

OP I think you would hurt Frost with your ideas IMO. He just needs a brush up to be shiny again. If you find him too squishy just use a shield or melee with high block arcs. There's a synergy there too.

Frosts not a tank he's an Ice Mage  

Edited January 23, 2020 by WarRelic

[Lone_Dude]

The shield-boost ability doesn't feel fitting to me. Why shields? Just because armor and pure DR are not original enough?

Globe scales from armor and passive you came up with regens health. Wouldn't it make more sense to get more armor then? 

[WarRelic]

21 minutes ago, Lone_Dude said:

The shield-boost ability doesn't feel fitting to me. Why shields? Just because armor and pure DR are not original enough?

Globe scales from armor and passive you came up with regens health. Wouldn't it make more sense to get more armor then? 

I agree, in Warframe Cold Hazard environments reduce shields too thematically speaking.

& Atlas already has the armor synergy I'd propose for Frost... 

Movement lock on 2, his outdated passive,poor movement speed and inability to take Rage & Hunter Adrenaline might be his biggest downsides. 

Which leads me to thinking about an Icey Avalanche passive, where killing frozen enemies(with weapons/without powers) grants a stacking bonus +60 Ice health just to himself. In effect it would stack on top of Icey Avalanche, one enemy at a time to replenish lost Ice Health but not from nuking with 4. Replenishing Ice makes sense.

Oh and would Synergise with the alternative passive I proposed with freeze aura so that could be Frosts new Passive. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by WarRelic

[kapn655321]

I always wanted his 1 to throw snowballs with an arch.. Incredibly cheap, very fast, return chip energy on hit. Hold to cast spike with an arch, semi homing, impales on hit; shatters on surface. Greater casting cost.

His 1 has always been nice for being able to cast during reload, as a one handed upper body cast. This gives him some advantage in using larger slower weapons like Ogris.

Frost's major flaw in my experience is his energy usage, and how janky his 1 has been.

[Jadous]

I really really liked your rework just change his passive to dealing more damage to frozen enemies or something having to do with damage to cold/frozen enemies or applying cold procs. Other than that with a few tweaked numbers here and there that's actually a very good suggestion!

[Benour]

Ehh after change to frozen enemies being able to be affected by status hes frikking amazing compared to what we had before. Also he can completely shut down enemies in huge radius for pretty much nonstop and AOE strip armor, aug for his 4 is awesome. His 2+aug is bordeline broken on excavations. He was also NEVER tank (tbh hes pretty weaksauce on higher lvls if hes not camping in globe or more like spamming it). If you need healing get operator arcanes they are dirt cheap to buy/make.

[Saravind]

he was/is defensive zone denial his 4 augment is great and should be left alone i feel

his 1... ill be honest i only use it to blow up the globes

i always wished icewave would ragdoll enemies up into air from the spikes force coming out of the surface they appear on

snow globe augment i feel needs changed... imho the reflection on dome hit someone said would be a nice addition to its current freeze one

[Tatann]

19 minutes ago, Saravind said:

he was/is defensive zone denial his 4 augment is great and should be left alone i feel

his 1... ill be honest i only use it to blow up the globes

i always wished icewave would ragdoll enemies up into air from the spikes force coming out of the surface they appear on

snow globe augment i feel needs changed... imho the reflection on dome hit someone said would be a nice addition to its current freeze one

Concerning the reflection, enemies do basically no damage to themselves, so damage reflection is useless in this game. But if the reflected bullet could proc cold, then you at least have CC, and both melee enemies entering the globe and ranged enemies shooting from outside the globe would be slowed down (resulting in the globe taking less damage since cold proc affect firerate)

[Saravind]

9 hours ago, Tatann said:

Concerning the reflection, enemies do basically no damage to themselves, so damage reflection is useless in this game. But if the reflected bullet could proc cold, then you at least have CC, and both melee enemies entering the globe and ranged enemies shooting from outside the globe would be slowed down (resulting in the globe taking less damage since cold proc affect firerate)

yeah in my head the reflection being cold was a given but now you mention it... maybe it was a given to just me lol

but yeah it being reflected taking some of the globes hp (the damage it would do to globe) with it to turn into ice bullet would be nice

Edited January 31, 2020 by Saravind

[Xepthrichros]

I prefer his current toolkit more than any of your suggestions. His current 2 with augment is great in Disruption also 

Also, just because something was released long ago doesn't mean it's bad or requires "modernization" Sometimes these "modernized" ideas are just gimmicky that make people do extraneous actions for the same or less reward. If it ain't broken, no need to fix it.