Warframe Revised: Titania Changes & Armor Changes

[Aadi880]

2 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I don't really use tribute outside of thorns.

Same. Though I would occasionally cast Dust on corpus. But Entangle and Full moon remains unusable for, well, any kind of content

Hell, I used Entangle thinking it can slow down the disruption demolysts, but it doesn't.

[TeaHawk]

Just now, Aadi880 said:

Same. Though I would occasionally cast Dust on corpus. But Entangle and Full moon remains unusable for, well, any kind of content

Hell, I used Entangle thinking it can slow down the disruption demolysts, but it doesn't.

Same. And still why the hell so long. Sometimes I may get killed while trying to cast and pickup thorns wihout Natural Talent.

[nooneyouknow13]

4 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Same. Though I would occasionally cast Dust on corpus. But Entangle and Full moon remains unusable for, well, any kind of content

Hell, I used Entangle thinking it can slow down the disruption demolysts, but it doesn't.

Entangle has 1, just one use case. When sortie 3 is a defense against infested, it's just enough of a slow to let you gun everything down before it can hit the operative.

Although with Lantern being a pretty stellar CC now, even that edge case is probably gone.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Hold to cast abilities are the biggest absolute cancer this game has. Let us bind Titania's, Vauban's and Ivara's individual cycled abilities to keys 6-9 for example, so that I don't need to cycle with 2 and then hold to cast with 2. I could bind 6, 7, 8 and 9 to my mouse and it would make playing these 3 Warframe much more enjoyable without having to use the stupid cycle mechanic.

I never use anything but Thorns now, and I barely even want to play Titania in general now. It could be argued that these changes made her even worse than she previously was because playing her is so damn tedious now.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Wyrmius_Prime

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I never use anything but Thorns now, and I barely even want to play Titania in general now. It could be argued that these changes made her even worse than she previously was because playing her is so damn tedious now.

It used to be a lot worse, since you were just not able to support some buffs. For example, the corps had no melee enemies..And it was very bad with greneer, because your allies were killing thin melee enemies very quickly. I know there are some problems with the wheel, but please choose your words. It used to be much worse than it is now.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

14 hours ago, zhellon said:

It used to be a lot worse, since you were just not able to support some buffs. For example, the corps had no melee enemies..And it was very bad with greneer, because your allies were killing thin melee enemies very quickly. I know there are some problems with the wheel, but please choose your words. It used to be much worse than it is now.

The accuracy debuff from Dust combined with the rest of her CC was more than adequate for Corpus. They can't aim for S#&$. If your allies killing enemies too quickly despite the long casting range of Titania was a problem for you, I don't think the buffs were ever needed in mission like that.

I played with Titania a bunch before the patches and never had any problems with the old system. Now I'll be just dropping her into the trash with Vauban and Ivara.

[selig_fay]

5 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The accuracy debuff from Dust combined with the rest of her CC was more than adequate for Corpus. They can't aim for S#&$. If your allies killing enemies too quickly despite the long casting range of Titania was a problem for you, I don't think the buffs were ever needed in mission like that.

I played with Titania a bunch before the patches and never had any problems with the old system. Now I'll be just dropping her into the trash with Vauban and Ivara.

The problem is that allies can kill the right enemies, but not all of them. Plus, you might have missed not because you can't in aim, but because the ability decided that you were using it on the closest enemy to you, who isn't even in the sights. And again, there is now a full moon and DR that are useful. The usefulness of reducing the accuracy of enemies is questionable, because you have to be close to the enemies. Slowing down is almost completely useless. In fact, right now you can literally only use DR while ignoring the rest of the buffs - this is a big buff for Titania, who doesn't just play razorwing all the time. 

Yes, the wheel system could be implemented more conveniently. Yes, the Tribute could be a better ability without us just knocking over enemies every two minutes. I don 't argue with that. But now it is much better now, than buffs that depend on the types of enemies. Just don't chase all the buffs and everything will be fine. I don't think 10 razorfly is much more useful than 7-8 to try to get all the buffs. But really, reducing accuracy and slowing down in most cases is not worth attention in my opinion.

Edited March 23, 2020 by zhellon

[(PSN)Soul_o-O_Eater]

This is great! Props! There's just two more minor changes needed. When using Titania's 4th ability and melee, often times the camera goes to the bottom of the floor or even beneath the floor/map. Also can her 4th melee use scaling mods to make damage vs high level worth it? Thx

Edited March 23, 2020 by (PS4)Soul_o-O_Eater
Almost forgot something

[Legault]

Buffing armor on frames like Mesa/Trinity with % damage reduction and on stealth frames like Loki/Ivara is just boring bad design and rewards incorrect play more than anything else as their toolkit already allows you to compensate for that particular weakness. Please find more interesting ways to change frames and give them identities rather than normalizing things.

[45uka]

Look guys, as a Titania main who doesn't play this game anymore I've seen this going on for years already. I've lost count of how many great suggestions to fix Titania there's been over all that time, and this thread has countless more again. I was always going to come back to the game to buy the Prime pack when Titania Prime rolled along with her much needed rework.

The fact of the matter is that DE has given her the shaft more than 3 times already, passing up on real reworks that other frames get. If it's not obvious to you by now that DE don't care then I don't know what to tell you.

Can we just stop posting all these great ideas for Titania please? It's all been said before and it's all wasted breath. Let it die.

[Greystrun]

Titania's fine, guys. Don't worry.

[MK_33]

I noticed now when using Titania's Razorwing melee it no longer snaps me between targets when attacking, like how archmelee used to be. I do remember this was an intended change for archmelee weapons for some reason, to make them useless in space missions, but titania was left alone. Now she was updated, and has blink, it doesnt snap target anymore. Kinda makes melee in razorwing feel awful and awkward, I would like to see it return.

[selig_fay]

Someone tried Titania on the current event? I see very small numbers compared to normal weapons and damage buff. Does the boss have a resist against exalted weapons? In theory, DPS should be equivalent to a good weapon and a Rhino buff, but it's not.

Edited March 29, 2020 by zhellon

[nooneyouknow13]

25 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Someone tried Titania on the current event? I see very small numbers compared to normal weapons and damage buff. Does the boss have a resist against exalted weapons? In theory, DPS should be equivalent to a good weapon and a Rhino buff, but it's not.

The Condrix use the eidolon damage formula. It favors slower, more crit focused weapons. I can do about 11 solo with dex pixia, 15 solo if I use the rubico prime, since shot combo doesn't decay while you're in razorwing. Dust and Thorns are really helpful for protecting the OpLinks if you don't have a limbo, lantern CCs the grineer well enough if you drop it in proper choke points. The Sentients basically can't kill Titania in razowing at all.

Edited March 29, 2020 by nooneyouknow13

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

The Condrix use the eidolon damage formula. It favors slower, more crit focused weapons. I can do about 11 solo with dex pixia, 15 solo if I use the rubico prime, since shot combo doesn't decay while you're in razorwing. Dust and Thorns are really helpful for protecting the OpLinks if you don't have a limbo, lantern CCs the grineer well enough if you drop it in proper choke points. The Sentients basically can't kill Titania in razowing at all.

Heh. Limiting the type of weapon limits the utility of razorwing. Who would have thought it? xD Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, there is no sense for an event other than a quick move in Titania. Oddly enough, Vauban feels great thanks to Vertex, which makes clearing ground targets and guarding beacons easier. If we can could place a Lantern without target, it would make a lot of dirt, but...

[nooneyouknow13]

3 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Heh. Limiting the type of weapon limits the utility of razorwing. Who would have thought it? xD Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, there is no sense for an event other than a quick move in Titania. Oddly enough, Vauban feels great thanks to Vertex, which makes clearing ground targets and guarding beacons easier. If we can could place a Lantern without target, it would make a lot of dirt, but...

Limbo and Frost are the CC masters of the event. From what I've seen, only freeze and stasis work on the Sentients. Max Shot combo rubico deals with the condrix fast enough I don't mind being out of Razorwing for it. Trying to do the sniping on anyone not knockdown immune is annoying thought, the conculyst spins get pretty excessive.

Edit: Dex Pixia aren't really bad for it per se, they're just not one of the best options.

Edited March 29, 2020 by nooneyouknow13

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Limbo and Frost are the CC masters of the event. From what I've seen, only freeze and stasis work on the Sentients. Max Shot combo rubico deals with the condrix fast enough I don't mind being out of Razorwing for it. Trying to do the sniping on anyone not knockdown immune is annoying thought, the conculyst spins get pretty excessive.

Edit: Dex Pixia aren't really bad for it per se, they're just not one of the best options.

Ah here the problem again in is, that ordinary weapons I'm taking down in 2 times more HP, than rapid emptying the store with the help razorwing blitz under 300% strength. This may be a good thing, but the fact that I have to disable archwing mode just because there is no way to configure the weapon or because the weapon is not effective annoys me. 

I go more to parties than to solos, and we got the fact that frost and limbo are not very effective compared to Vauban, who can collect all the Sentients at one point for a quick kill (except for small Sentients, which for some reason just lie on the ground when vertex is active.) When protecting beacons 3 vertex just do not give the greener deal damage. We are talking about ground missions. About space here without options-limbo.

[Audbot]

Hi! Popping back into this thread to ask...

Can we please revert the Titania Buff Selector?

When this came out I thought I might just be struggling because it was new and unfamiliar, but it just feels... too clunky. This isn't a balance issue, it just... feels bad and clunky and awkward, to the extent that I've stopped playing Titania in general. (She's still currently my most-used warframe!)

(Like, other warframes with selectors are fine, because you're often using those powers out of combat! I've been playing a lot of Wisp instead, and it's not a huge deal to cycle through all three Reservoirs... but that's okay because there's only three and because I'm dropping them on the ground, often out of combat, instead of having to aim them at enemies and because I don't have to do the extra step of picking the buffs up and because the icons are color-coded and don't all look alike and because I don't have to keep track of durations for each of them.)

Please, this isn't an "oh, it's not as optimal!" complaint or a "but this used to work with My One Strat and now it doesn't!" one. It's a "this was a perfectly okay ability that I used a lot and now it just feels like I'm trying to solve a Rubik's Cube in the middle of a fight and I've stopped using this warframe because of it" complaint. There's probably a good way to overhaul Tribute but this isn't it, please put it back. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Audbot

[EinheriarJudith]

all they had to do to tribute was change it into an AoE and make the buffs vaccumable. they went and ability wheeled it because of course gotta have busy work. imo this gimmick makes me not want to play her. dont feel like rolling a wheel just to get buffs.

titania doesnt need more than 4 powers and they should stop bloating frame kits to justify using an ability wheel.

[selig_fay]

4 hours ago, Audbot said:

Can we please revert the Titania Buff Selector?

Please, no. The old Tribute on enemies was terrible. 

4 hours ago, Audbot said:

(Like, other warframes with selectors are fine, because you're often using those powers out of combat! I've been playing a lot of Wisp instead, and it's not a huge deal to cycle through all three Reservoirs... but that's okay because there's only three and because I'm dropping them on the ground, often out of combat, instead of having to aim them at enemies and because I don't have to do the extra step of picking the buffs up and because the icons are color-coded and don't all look alike and because I don't have to keep track of durations for each of them.)

That's the problem with Titania. We need to use the ability on the enemy. I have already suggested making Lantern beacons instead, which would emit auras in their zone and which Titania could drag and place in the air. This would work almost like wisp tanks, only instead of long buffs we have a large area around the beacons or around Titania when she drags the beacon. This is a small nerf, because Titania then can only have 1 buff around her and the rest of the stationary buffs, but it seems to me that as a mechanic this would look a lot better than knockdown 4 enemies every 120 seconds. 

The selector should remain, because the inability to select the desired buff was terribly annoying in the old Tribute and Grendel had the same problems, this also got the wheel.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by zhellon

[Audbot]

7 hours ago, zhellon said:

That's the problem with Titania. We need to use the ability on the enemy. I have already suggested making Lantern beacons instead, which would emit auras in their zone and which Titania could drag and place in the air. This would work almost like wisp tanks, only instead of long buffs we have a large area around the beacons or around Titania when she drags the beacon. This is a small nerf, because Titania then can only have 1 buff around her and the rest of the stationary buffs, but it seems to me that as a mechanic this would look a lot better than knockdown 4 enemies every 120 seconds. 

This is a huge nerf, because this means that every Tribute cast:

• a) Costs 75 Energy instead of 25 Energy.
• b) Has duration of 25 sec instead of 120 sec. (Unless you're making Lantern last 120 seconds, which would make Lantern way too strong.)
• c) Don't follow you when you're on the move. (Unless you're letting Titania carry the beacon... which would make Lantern way too strong.)

I do like the idea of Lantern zones having a buff that interacts with Tribute somehow, but as a straight-up replacement for the existing Tribute auras it just turns Titania into a crappier Wisp knockoff.

And I don't think there's even anything wrong with punching enemies to get buffs! It was fun! It gave you a reason to pay attention to what enemies you were fighting instead of just letting them evaporate in front of you! Sure, sometimes the enemy with the buff you want didn't show up for a bit, and it'd be nice to have a more roundly useful set of effects... but it was basically fine and could use some tweaking.

I don't see why having to wait a few seconds to spot the right enemy to get the two-minute buff you want is the worst thing in the world compared to constant fiddly toggling that it's been turned into. It was okay, if not amazing: now it's actually bad. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Audbot

[selig_fay]

7 minutes ago, Audbot said:

b) Has duration of 25 sec instead of 120 sec.(Unless you're making Lantern last 120 seconds, which would make Lantern way too strong.)

What about infinite duration?

7 minutes ago, Audbot said:

c) Don't follow you when you're on the move.

(Unless you're letting Titania carry the beacon... which would make Lantern way too strong.)

That's what I want to do. If this is too strong, you can limit the radius to 2 times when Titania drags the beacon. The 10 meter Lantern doesn't sound too strong if you don't invest in the radius. In the end, I would prefer to drop the Lantern altogether in favor of the razorfly system in order to have full control over them.

Edited March 31, 2020 by zhellon

[Audbot]

8 minutes ago, zhellon said:

What about infinite duration?

So, you just have an infinitely long zone that disabled every enemy within [20 x Ability Range] meters? That you just drop over the Defense objective and never have to worry about it again?

That's too good and not actually fun. (Unless you're doing something like "dropping beacons that last forever but only provide the buff, and you cast Lantern on them to turn them into crowd control"... at which point that's literally just Wisp. You've just redesigned Wisp.)

. . .

It's also worth noting that pulling Tribute buffs from enemy types means that your casts are spread out and it flows better -- you hit a bunch of enemies, Tribute one of them, and when you hit the next bunch you Tribute a different one. And I typically started looking to reset buffs when they hit around a minute of remaining duration, so you're frequently keeping an eye out for someone you want to Tribute.

But when you have a toggle, the "optimum" way to play is to cast Tribute four times times to get all the buffs, which is "stronger" but feels more tedious and less fun to actually use.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Audbot

[selig_fay]

Just now, Audbot said:

So, you just have an infinitely long zone that disabled every enemy within [20 x Ability Range] meters? That you just drop over the Defense objective and never have to worry about it again?

That's too good and not actually fun. (Unless you're doing something like "dropping beacons that last forever but only provide the buff, and you cast Lantern on them to turn them into crowd control... at which point that's literally just Wisp. You've just redesigned Wisp.)

OK, if it's strong, just remove the Lantern from the beacon set. Now there are only buffs. What's wrong?

1 minute ago, Audbot said:

It's also worth noting that pulling Tribute buffs from enemy types means that your casts are spread out and it flows better -- you hit a bunch of enemies, Tribute one of them, and when you hit the next bunch you Tribute a different one. And I typically started looking to reset buffs when they hit around a minute of remaining duration.

But when you have a toggle, the "optimum" way to play is to cast Tribute four times times to get all the buffs, which is "stronger" but feels more tedious and less fun to actually use.

The problem with the old system was that you might not get the right buff, because this type of enemy simply doesn't exist in this type of missions (the corpus faction doesn't have melee enemies (they have up to level 11, but no more)). Plus, you could always have only 1 buff and very situationally all the others, because your allies exist that will not wait for you, and you need to leave your team to find a certain enemy that may not spawn for a long time. Plus, most of the old buffs were useless, so it was much easier not to click on this button. And now you can still remember the system by which you had to stack your buffs, which made the situation much worse.

The current system has made Titania much more useful thanks to 50% DR. In the old system, you could only support this buff on infected missions and sometimes on greneer missions, but never on missions against corpus. It's better now, that's a fact.

If you are experiencing a problem with what the wheel does, I can advise you to make a quick-click and long-click macro and put it on different mouse or keyboard buttons. This will completely solve the problem and it does not violate the game's policy.

[Ikusias]

I have to concede to DE that currently Titania is much more playable than before, still this is no rework again, just further accumulation of hotfixes that were due since her launch.

There are still issues remaining and a few new ones:

- Tribute: still the only power so far that does nothing on cast until you go and pick up the "soul" it generates, usually under enemy fire, the direct "damage" of the casting is negligible

           All tribute effects are non scaling and unmoddable

              Area of effect is fixed, only beneficial if investing in narrow minded for max duration builds, still unmoddable range is a hindrance in larger maps or landscapes;

              Effect and duration of tributes are fixed, modding for power strenght and duration does nothing;

              Tribute effects are centered on Titania, while in razorwing this means easily leaving allies without them  - compared to Wisp reservoirs (1st power vs tribute being 2nd slot);

              Buff selector is a change so players aren't dependent on enemy types, still it is cluncky and slow, usually target is dead to allies bloodthirst or the Saryn on the other map;

- Lantern: now finally it seems to have a working CC effect, target being fixed in place helps as well, still...

                ... why this is in a separate power slot instead of being an alternative or combined effect to lantern? (like Ivara's quiver selection or Khora's ensare + whipclaw combo)

                 why does it prevent the use of tribute on the affected target?

                 why does it need a target enemy instead of being a targetless cast?????

- Razorwing: with dashing and blink base mobility become more acceptable, but there's still a whole host of unresolved issues

                   skywing, archwing and sharkwing, bot on tilesets, landscapes and spaces have access to all [PRESS X] interaction, why razorwing doesn't?

                   stun animation on any contact with surfaces, enemies and allies included, leaving the frame vulnerable for an unskippable amount of time, why?

                   razorflies still die like flies and can be replaced only by restarting razorwing or burning energy with multiple castings of tribute.

                         active razorflies prevent any form of stealth due to aggressively aggroing anything in sight without player imput or control;

                         no control at all on razorflies target priorities or behaviour (maybe I'd prefer my razorflies totank that bombard rocket instead of going murdering things elsewere?);

                   Dex Pixia & Diwata: both exalted archwing weapons are easily overtaken by conventional  weapons and don't present anything of note mechanically...

                          no access to acolite mods or rivens (fortunately);

                          no exilus slots, no extended modding capacity a la kuva weapons;

                          Diwata is a single target "greatsword" - and lost archwing autotargeting as well with latest update

                          Dex Pixia are "vanilla" dual guns without anything noteworthy except archwing style ammo regeneration