Hildryn currently doesn't have a passive...why are you not stopping this?

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

5 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

He said "Her overshield does indeed make her immune to statuses...  Meaning gas, slash etc. that normally would bypass shields do not with overshield.

I don't user her against infested. And for her regain of shields at 0, I use her 2 while invul and 'hiding' to get full overshield by the time invul is done, without the dragon key gimmick. 

 

She's more active than Inaros, requiring abilities but she's quite tanky and without the need of arcanes to be in the same ballpark as inaros. Adaptation exists, as well as aviator (if you're using her 4) and aerodynamic aura too. I fight level 150-200s with little issue, and with her new haven augment it's even easier. 

Her 2, when actually used and not forgotten about, gives a very large chunk (with my build 70%+ of overall shields) and it has no CD on usage. I think the shield DR could be increased to 40% for all shield frames, but adaptation with her alongside her #2 is what helps make her tanky (just like inaros and grace).  Just inaros is passive because his abilities aren't really suited for him, and she's more active.

 

Armor benefiting shields doesn't make sense, it's like trying to take a shower while fully clothed.  

I'd say maybe on the shield regen starting faster as an additional part of her passive, but her passive is good enough as it is. 3 seconds is quite a long time of invul. And  a shield regen boost would be nice, even if it isn't particularly necessary.

 

 

 

You just sound silly. Maybe go see what immunity means... Anyone using Hildryn knows she can be INFLICTED with various status effects while having overshields. 

BTW gas and slash DO NOT bypass ANY shields. Look it up. 

You don't use her against infested. Yet the main reason toxin is SUPPOSED to be stopped by overshields from affecting her health is to fight against infected. And a toxic Ancient's hook will one shot Hildryn past her Overshields and shields along with any shield gating like any other frame.

Some augments (like Hildryn's) are just bandaids that take a much needed mod slot. Make it a passive instead 

Hello, none of the idea of kids piloting space suits to fight adults makes sense. It's a game

Armor can easily benefit shields FOR HILDRYN as a passive. Because again it's a game.

[kwlingo]

Also they need to fix her augment to each kill restores equal amount of energy spent.

[LascarCapable]

I suspect a possible oversight.

[[DE]Momaw]

On 2020-04-10 at 9:56 PM, Miser_able said:

Isn't her passive better shield gating? 

Just to signal boost this post, Miser_able is correct.

Every warframe has shield gating, Hildryn's is significantly better.  Everybody else gets 1 second of invulnerability from a full shield break and 0.3 seconds from a partial shield break. Hildryn gets 3 seconds on both which is enough time to use Pillage to get her shields going again.

[rstripn]

28 minutes ago, [DE]Momaw said:

Just to signal boost this post, Miser_able is correct.

Every warframe has shield gating, Hildryn's is significantly better.  Everybody else gets 1 second of invulnerability from a full shield break and 0.3 seconds from a partial shield break. Hildryn gets 3 seconds on both which is enough time to use Pillage to get her shields going again.

I knew it was better but not the specifics, good to know, thank you.

Your last line confuses me- how can you Pillage with no shields?

[Miser_able]

21 minutes ago, rstripn said:

I knew it was better but not the specifics, good to know, thank you.

Your last line confuses me- how can you Pillage with no shields?

Because you regain shields during the invulnerability period. Those 3 seconds allow you to regen enough shields to afford to cast pillage. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

Because you regain shields during the invulnerability period. Those 3 seconds allow you to regen enough shields to afford to cast pillage. 

Don't see how that's possible when Hildryn still has to obey the 4 second lockout on shield recharge when shields pop, guaranteeing a minimum of 1 second with no shields or invulnerability.

[Miser_able]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Don't see how that's possible when Hildryn still has to obey the 4 second lockout on shield recharge when shields pop, guaranteeing a minimum of 1 second with no shields or invulnerability.

True. But of you pick up an energy orb her shield regen starts no matter how much time was left on the timer. And hildryn tends to generate a lot of those. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

(deleted)

Edited April 24, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones
Woops, turns out I don’t know what I’m talking about

[TheGrimCorsair]

14 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

True. But of you pick up an energy orb her shield regen starts no matter how much time was left on the timer. And hildryn tends to generate a lot of those. 

If that is what you wish to convey, you should have said that in your previous post, rather than the misdirection you posted in it.

 

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Does she? 🤔 The wiki lists Pillage as a skill that bypasses the need to wait for natural regeneration to take effect. I don’t have her, unfortunately, so I can’t test myself 😞

Yeah, if your shields pop, barring extenuating circumstances such as picking up an energy orb or getting shields from an ally or arcane, you're looking at 4 seconds before natural regeneration kicks in. Pillage lets you leech armor and shields from enemies in range to refill your own shields, and will replenish them so long as the skill was cast before you ran out.

[Miser_able]

6 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

If that is what you wish to convey, you should have said that in your previous post, rather than the misdirection you posted in it.

I had actually completely forgotten that the shield recharge delay is 4 seconds base. I don't tend to pay attention to super specific things like that. 

I think I have a shield recharge delay mod on my hildryn which might be what I was seeing. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Yeah, if your shields pop, barring extenuating circumstances such as picking up an energy orb or getting shields from an ally or arcane, you're looking at 4 seconds before natural regeneration kicks in. Pillage lets you leech armor and shields from enemies in range to refill your own shields, and will replenish them so long as the skill was cast before you ran out.

Ahhh, thanks for clarifying. So if I’m understanding correctly, the potential is there to completely bypass the natural regeneration delay as long as you cast Pillage before your shields run out, and the duration of Pillage is affected by duration mods, correct? 🤔 Sorry for the need for clarification, she’s looking more and more interesting as I learn about her

Edited April 24, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[(XBOX)Duke DEFCON]

Hildryn also shares her passive with any friendlies linked by her Haven ability. (except pets and defense points presently, but hopefully being fixed soon)

[(XBOX)Duke DEFCON]

31 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Ahhh, thanks for clarifying. So if I’m understanding correctly, the potential is there to completely bypass the natural regeneration delay as long as you cast Pillage before your shields run out, and the duration of Pillage is affected by duration mods, correct? 🤔 Sorry for the need for clarification, she’s looking more and more interesting as I learn about her

Yes, and you don't need to have a low duration to benefit from pillage in this situation because using pillage a second time ends the effect and returns any shield gains immediately. So if you're in a pinch remember to Pillage and again if you think your immunity will end before the pillage returns shields to you. You have to be quick with it because Hildryn has no health to sustain a hit to it.

[anfuerudo]

3 часа назад, [DE]Momaw сказал:

Just to signal boost this post, Miser_able is correct.

Every warframe has shield gating, Hildryn's is significantly better.  Everybody else gets 1 second of invulnerability from a full shield break and 0.3 seconds from a partial shield break. Hildryn gets 3 seconds on both which is enough time to use Pillage to get her shields going again.

Except it's not. Her shields do not regenerate under fire anymore apparently they never did - she has gating, so in "oh, shi~!" situation you won't get instakilled, but it's not invulnerability(when her health bar becomes greyed out) she previously had. This means that she can get affected by status during her gated state on top of being unable to regenerate shields. And you can't cast her Pillage in gated state, because you have no shields and they don't regenerate. So, unlike, say, Mag or Harrow, she has no means of quickly regenerating shields.

And before anyone says anything, yes, arcanes Aegis and Barrier are a thing, but given band-aid-y nature of arcanes let's not talk about them.

Edited April 24, 2020 by anfuerudo

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

And you can't cast her Pillage in gated state, because you have no shields and they don't regenerate.

I learned that you can cast Pillage before your shields pop, and use it to get your shields back during the prolonged shield gating. Hildryn looks pretty neat from what I’ve been reading 👍

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

If you ever played Hildryn before the update, shield regen started immediately after her invulnerability. Now it does not. 

Again, overshield do not make her IMMUNE to status. Any one can play her right now and see. 

You can't "tap 2" against infested, only ancients and hope ancient aura doesnt kill you. You can't use abilities to regain shields when shields are at 0.

Frames don't NEED "outside" source to regain health and energy. They have an abundance of utility that fit on weapons, warframes, operator to regain health and energy. Yet they also have an abundance of outside sources to utilize as well. Sources to regenerate shields from 0 barely exist in game. 

Hildryn has no damage reduction skills/abilities. Armor does not apply to shields. But she more tanky than Inaros... Now you just saying stuff. 

Shields give 25% damage reduction. It's crap against enemies lv 70 and higher. Not to mention the many enemies that instantly strip shields from full to 0. Who wants to play a mission, not able to use abilities because you need your shields just to survive?

Letting her shield's damage reduction be increased by armor would be a great passive. Any of her augments would be great passives. Letting her shield regeneration start faster would be a great passive.

Her passive now is crap after the rework. It was necessary to her kit which barely has any synergy or strength as it stands.

Now players have to remove mods just to fit augments??? 

The made her according to how shields (and arcanes) worked at that time. They reworked the system. They should at least rework the passive of the only frame that is 100% dependent on shields

It starts 1 second after her invulnerability and is a trade off due to how the generic shield gate works. Prior to shield gate you'd be dead the second invulnerability drops since the slight shield reg that had time to occur would not have saved you. So in both cases you're better of moving away or killing what is in the area during immunity.

Yes overshields make her immune to statuses that target health i.e they cannot target health through OS. So in short, they do nothing while OS is up.

If you are hellbent on playing her everywhere, you mod her to be able to due to, at which point she can tap 2 very well against infested aswell. And I cant recall the last itime I ever worried about an ancient aura in the game.

Yes, many frames need an outside source, you even uhm... mention it right there when you bring up weapons and operator. Those are the very definition of outside sources, the exact same outside sources Hildryn can use only with different builds than others. And if you claim you cant reg shields then the operator wishes to say hello. It is no different from having an operator built for health or energy regen. Though it is quite redundant since her shields are already extremely easy to manage.

Shes more tanky because she has better sustain, 2 gates that make her EHP infinite for atleast 2 hits, meaning it would require 3 hits form an extremely high level mob to kill her where as in Inaros case it take 1. And with RDD aswell as being played properly she can extend the use of her OS gate infinitely. OS goes down, RDD ticks some slash procs, OS is back, hit comes in, OS is down, RDD procs slash, OS is back and so on.

I run plenty of content well above 100 with her and I never lose the shields, yet you claim level 70 makes a noticable difference on her? Do you run some old dragon key cheese so you have no shields or what? Maybe time to rethink and actually play in that case with a non.cheese build?

No really, letting her armor protect shields would not be a great passive, it would be so overpowered it is silly. Same with her augments and with letting her start the reg faster. It is already borderline OP on Gauss and he doesnt even have near the shield pool that Hildryn does. Armor protecting shields when we have access to things like aegis and barrier would be so imbalanced. It would be like giving grace a 30% HP per second proc. We have plenty of shield management options for her already and her shields are already strong enough. You sound like you want an AFK frame that you can just leave there with #4 toggled and go have a coffee or something.

Which part of her passive was necessary and doesnt work the same now?

Yeah, removing a mod to fit an augment tends to be how the game works. I know it is a shocker that Hildryn doesnt get her own specific augment slots for no capacity cost. If the augment makes the frame stronger than the previous mod that occupied the slot it is obviously a worthwhile trade.

Yup they did make her according to that system, but she worked exactly like the shield gate system with the exception of now having an extra 0.3 second gate whenever shields have regged even a bit. Aegis also changed, so it now works even better on Hildryn. Zero has changed for me in my gameplay with her, she's actually more durable now than she was prior to the shield gate.

You still havent answered regarding how you even manage to run out of shields with her.

[anfuerudo]

38 минут назад, (NSW)Greybones сказал:

I learned that you can cast Pillage before your shields pop, and use it to get your shields back during the prolonged shield gating. Hildryn looks pretty neat from what I’ve been reading 👍

You can, but I was talking about "oh, shi~!" moments and when you're out of shields you're out of shields for 4 seconds, not 1 second as @SneakyErvin says this part was factually incorrect.

You can band-aid that with arcanes, especially since it's rather easy to obtain them with through OSS, and virtually never run out of shields, but if for some reason your shields are depleted - you better get somewhere to hide.

Edited April 24, 2020 by anfuerudo

[SneakyErvin]

23 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

Except it's not. Her shields do not regenerate under fire anymore - she has gating, so in "oh, shi~!" situation you won't get instakilled, but it's not invulnerability(when her health bar becomes greyed out) she previously had. This means that she can get affected by status during her gated state on top of being unable to regenerate shields. And you can't cast her Pillage in gated state, because you have no shields and they don't regenerate. So, unlike, say, Mag or Harrow, she has no means of quickly regenerating shields.

And before anyone says anything, yes, arcanes Aegis and Barrier are a thing, but given band-aid-y nature of arcanes let's not talk about them.

Her shields didnt reg under fire previously either, no shields did. Now they start recharging after 1 seconds has passed since they last took damage, or 4 seconds if they fully deplete. Hildryn getting hit during her 3 second invulnerability does not delay the shield recharge beyond 4 seconds, since the shields arent getting damaged. Just as if a slash or toxin effect is on you as your shields hit 0, they wont delay shield regen since health is hit instead of shields, so shields go unharmed for 4 seconds. And if I remember right, the slash proc effecting you wont force you into a new 1 sec or 4 sec period if it is the only thing hurting the shields, shield recharge delay ignores DoT statuses.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

You can, but I was talking about "oh, shi~!" moments and when you're out of shields you're out of shields for 4 seconds, not 1 second as @SneakyErvin says.

You can band-aid that with arcanes, especially since it's rather easy to obtain them with through OSS, and virtually never run out of shields, but if for some reason your shields are depleted - you better get somewhere to hide.

I never said 1 sec. I said it is 1 sec partially depleted, 4 sec if fully depleted.

Or if you refer to the start of my previous post, please read it again. I said it starts 1 second after invulnerability ends. 3 second invulnerability duration, so shield recharge delay still has 1 second left to go till it hits second 4.

Edited April 24, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[anfuerudo]

3 минуты назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

Her shields didnt reg under fire previously either, no shields did. Now they start recharging after 1 seconds has passed since they last took damage, or 4 seconds if they fully deplete. Hildryn getting hit during her 3 second invulnerability does not delay the shield recharge beyond 4 seconds, since the shields arent getting damaged. Just as if a slash or toxin effect is on you as your shields hit 0, they wont delay shield regen since health is hit instead of shields, so shields go unharmed for 4 seconds. And if I remember right, the slash proc effecting you wont force you into a new 1 sec or 4 sec period if it is the only thing hurting the shields, shield recharge delay ignores DoT statuses.

Yeah, you're right. What I took as her shields regenerating was Aegis triggering/working. My bad.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, anfuerudo said:

Yeah, you're right. What I took as her shields regenerating was Aegis triggering/working. My bad.

Yeah, that is actually the biggest change between then and now, the proc behavior of aegis. Now it is only when shields are damaged, previously it was when damaged and I think that variable also counted when you were invulnerable. 

[anfuerudo]

I think it did, yeah. And another big change - both Aegis and Barrier have cooldown now, while previously they could've been refreshed.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

15 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

Just to signal boost this post, Miser_able is correct.

Every warframe has shield gating, Hildryn's is significantly better.  Everybody else gets 1 second of invulnerability from a full shield break and 0.3 seconds from a partial shield break. Hildryn gets 3 seconds on both which is enough time to use Pillage to get her shields going again.

Doesn't seem like she keeps her 3sec invulnerability on partial shields. Maybe bugged on console, I'll have to pay more attention.

Not sure which build allows Hildryn to cast Pillage without shields. You say it's possible,  I'll look on YouTube and see if someone has the build. 

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It starts 1 second after her invulnerability and is a trade off due to how the generic shield gate works. Prior to shield gate you'd be dead the second invulnerability drops since the slight shield reg that had time to occur would not have saved you. So in both cases you're better of moving away or killing what is in the area during immunity.

Yes overshields make her immune to statuses that target health i.e they cannot target health through OS. So in short, they do nothing while OS is up.

If you are hellbent on playing her everywhere, you mod her to be able to due to, at which point she can tap 2 very well against infested aswell. And I cant recall the last itime I ever worried about an ancient aura in the game.

Yes, many frames need an outside source, you even uhm... mention it right there when you bring up weapons and operator. Those are the very definition of outside sources, the exact same outside sources Hildryn can use only with different builds than others. And if you claim you cant reg shields then the operator wishes to say hello. It is no different from having an operator built for health or energy regen. Though it is quite redundant since her shields are already extremely easy to manage.

Shes more tanky because she has better sustain, 2 gates that make her EHP infinite for atleast 2 hits, meaning it would require 3 hits form an extremely high level mob to kill her where as in Inaros case it take 1. And with RDD aswell as being played properly she can extend the use of her OS gate infinitely. OS goes down, RDD ticks some slash procs, OS is back, hit comes in, OS is down, RDD procs slash, OS is back and so on.

I run plenty of content well above 100 with her and I never lose the shields, yet you claim level 70 makes a noticable difference on her? Do you run some old dragon key cheese so you have no shields or what? Maybe time to rethink and actually play in that case with a non.cheese build?

No really, letting her armor protect shields would not be a great passive, it would be so overpowered it is silly. Same with her augments and with letting her start the reg faster. It is already borderline OP on Gauss and he doesnt even have near the shield pool that Hildryn does. Armor protecting shields when we have access to things like aegis and barrier would be so imbalanced. It would be like giving grace a 30% HP per second proc. We have plenty of shield management options for her already and her shields are already strong enough. You sound like you want an AFK frame that you can just leave there with #4 toggled and go have a coffee or something.

Which part of her passive was necessary and doesnt work the same now?

Yeah, removing a mod to fit an augment tends to be how the game works. I know it is a shocker that Hildryn doesnt get her own specific augment slots for no capacity cost. If the augment makes the frame stronger than the previous mod that occupied the slot it is obviously a worthwhile trade.

Yup they did make her according to that system, but she worked exactly like the shield gate system with the exception of now having an extra 0.3 second gate whenever shields have regged even a bit. Aegis also changed, so it now works even better on Hildryn. Zero has changed for me in my gameplay with her, she's actually more durable now than she was prior to the shield gate.

You still havent answered regarding how you even manage to run out of shields with her.

When you start playing Hildryn, you'll know more. 

I said other frames DON'T NEED outside sources. I also gave a list of outside sources all frames EXCEPT Hildryn can benefit from. Meaning that in both areas, Hildryn suffers greatly. Also, There are no focus schools dedicated to shield management like the ones forhealth or energy.

If you never lose shields,  it just means you really don't use abilities while playing Hildryn. If you play her in high level content where her shields are depleted in 2 or 3 hits before adaptation can build, you're stuck trying to hide and only casting pillage just to survive. You have to leave the mission. Other frames can do stuff like melee forever and always regain full health and massives amounts of energy WITHOUT ANY RNG, COOLDOWN OR NEED TO CAST ABILITY. Hildryn cannot do this with shields.

They just came out with augments for her. Please oh please try and charge balefire shoots, directly hit enemies and not die after 90mins of arbitrations. 

Xbox doesn't have the Haven augment. I can only imagine trying to cast Haven ( forever to cast + high shield drain), then Pillage on level 150 grins during kuva survival. How is this effective when they take way more shields than Hildryn can recover? How much shielding you think she can recover while under fire? Obviously you don't use her. . .

Armor can provide well over 25% damage reduction Shields are capped at 25% enemy damage easily overcome this at levels over 70 . Most frames can gain well over 1k health in addition to shield gating and/or have damage reduction abilities. Letting her armor effect her shields would not be OP. 

Her ehp looks good on paper. Her survivability does not scale anywhere near like it did before the changes to shield mechanics and arcanes.

Anyone can look at ALL the ingame items related to shield management. No frame would survive longer with shields than they would if built for health + armor and/or energy + quick thinking.

The things they took in account when making Hildryn had her working just fine. Now those things have drastically changed. Then take into account the lack of shield related items. As a newer frame and the only frame based on shield management, they could look at her kit and make adjustments. 

Btw, you can already go afk with Hildryn in her 4th. With adaptation , high duration, efficiency, and arcane barrier. On starchart enemies. Which is kinda pointless.

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

When you start playing Hildryn, you'll know more. 

I said other frames DON'T NEED outside sources. I also gave a list of outside sources all frames EXCEPT Hildryn can benefit from. Meaning that in both areas, Hildryn suffers greatly. Also, There are no focus schools dedicated to shield management like the ones forhealth or energy.

If you never lose shields,  it just means you really don't use abilities while playing Hildryn. If you play her in high level content where her shields are depleted in 2 or 3 hits before adaptation can build, you're stuck trying to hide and only casting pillage just to survive. You have to leave the mission. Other frames can do stuff like melee forever and always regain full health and massives amounts of energy WITHOUT ANY RNG, COOLDOWN OR NEED TO CAST ABILITY. Hildryn cannot do this with shields.

They just came out with augments for her. Please oh please try and charge balefire shoots, directly hit enemies and not die after 90mins of arbitrations. 

Xbox doesn't have the Haven augment. I can only imagine trying to cast Haven ( forever to cast + high shield drain), then Pillage on level 150 grins during kuva survival. How is this effective when they take way more shields than Hildryn can recover? How much shielding you think she can recover while under fire? Obviously you don't use her. . .

Armor can provide well over 25% damage reduction Shields are capped at 25% enemy damage easily overcome this at levels over 70 . Most frames can gain well over 1k health in addition to shield gating and/or have damage reduction abilities. Letting her armor effect her shields would not be OP. 

Her ehp looks good on paper. Her survivability does not scale anywhere near like it did before the changes to shield mechanics and arcanes.

Anyone can look at ALL the ingame items related to shield management. No frame would survive longer with shields than they would if built for health + armor and/or energy + quick thinking.

The things they took in account when making Hildryn had her working just fine. Now those things have drastically changed. Then take into account the lack of shield related items. As a newer frame and the only frame based on shield management, they could look at her kit and make adjustments. 

Btw, you can already go afk with Hildryn in her 4th. With adaptation , high duration, efficiency, and arcane barrier. On starchart enemies. Which is kinda pointless.

I play Hildryn alot and what I describe is exactly how it works.

Hildryn doesnt need outside sources either. Hildryn has other options that other frames dont benefit from, or nearly to the same degree as her. And yes lol, there is a  focus school dedicated to shields, it has the same mechanical input interaction as Vaz. You can literally use it to keep her #3 and #4 up while controlling an area infinitely.

I play her with Haven on 24/7 and always have a proactive pillage going and I play her nearly exclusively as melee, as I do with pretty much all frames these days. The only thing you really need to do is tap pillage from time to time. Blazing Pillage makes it even better, since it completely halts enemy attacks for awhile due to guaranteed heat status procs.

I dont touch Balefire, it serves no purpose, it is there like melee exalteds, as some form of flavor thing never to be used since there are better normal weapons.

What is uhm so hard with casting Haven? You uh toggle it on at the start of a mission or in a case you might have ran head first into a nullifier. Versus high level grineer I gain far more shields than I spend. One level 150 lancer gives around 700 with the build I use. It takes a considerable amount of time even for mixed groups with level 150 corrupted HG's and Bombards to get your shields to zero. You have alot of reaction time even versus such extreme group combos that you never really face in the game.

So you dont think it would be OP with a 4.5k or higher shield that can achieve a mitigation of 70% from the frame in addition to 25% from normal shield mitigation and 90% resistance to a damage type from adaptation while also regenerating for 250+ per second and can be refilled on demand at a rate far exceeding any form of healing we have access to except for possibly nikana+daikyu, hirudo or life strike, while also have the option to make use of aegis and possibly barrier? Yeah that wouldnt be OP at all.

Her survivability scales very well.

Several frames would survive longer with shields. Volt, Mag, Hildryn and Gauss are 4 examples. QT is also a crutch, it leads to sloppy gameplay and I would never use it.

Nope, those things havent drastically changed. I havent picked up any of those things until recently and I did just as fine prior to that. The only "drastic" change to her is the introduction of blazing pillage which made more reliable against infested and in groups with other armor/shield strip frames.